Official: Thank you for your feedback on the next version of Logos
Comments
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Nathan Parker said:
Can someone pin the links to the MP Seminars videos on the new Logos Pro features? I've searched around on the MP Seminars website. I couldn't find them.
they are part of the "Logos 32 Updates" in the "What is new in Logos 10" section
https://mpseminars.com/course/whats-new-in-logos-10/section/logos-32-updates/
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
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I agree. Without breaking down the tiers by features and price (regular and discounted), how can I evaluate if I'm interested at all. And if my interest is peaked, how can I determine which tier seems to best match my needs/interests if the features aren't demonstrated well, whether by video or text and pics.Pedro Pozo said:My personal request would be to include videos for each tier and each feature, being in-depth guides about how to use each feature for each target audience.
Like an MP Seminars but included in the subscription.
I assume all of this will be provided in time to upgrade to the full feature set if I need to do that to qualify for a discounted subscription price. But at the moment, I feel like there's a push to make a decision about whether or not to subscribe, without having the above information.
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Rick Ausdahl said:
I feel like there's a push to make a decision about whether or not to subscribe, without having the above information.
Hi Rick,
Respectfully, I don't think there's too much of a push right now. I'm not even convinced they're making much of a profit on the current pro subscriptions. My hunch is that it's more about feeling their way through the changes than it is about profit right now. Currently, as I understand it, the only people who can subscribe to pro are owners of the Logos 10 full feature set. These owners are being given a discounted price of $9.99/month. This is quite low, and if you're interested in trying out the features, I would personally recommend you purchase the subscription at that price (I have not yet done so). I believe you would have 30 days to cancel until you would be charged. I fully expect the subscription price to rise substantially for the full feature set after the official launch and grandfathering period is over.
I agree that the general suggestion of providing informative videos is a good one. This transition will be confusing for a lot of people (me likely included), and an abundance of well-presented information would be of great help.
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As a reference since so many supporters of the subscription only model mentioned Microsoft as a proof point... Well, Office 2024 is coming soon and according to reports will once again include purchase of perpetual licenses, as not all customers want subscriptions.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:
As a reference since so many supporters of the subscription only model mentioned Microsoft as a proof point... Well, Office 2024 is coming soon and according to reports will once again include purchase of perpetual licenses, as not all customers want subscriptions.
Yes, Microsoft is but one of many software companies that could be used in comparison. None of them come anywhere close (at least for me) to listening to the needs of their users. Coincidentally, just this morning, I went to use my Microsoft Office and found that they had changed access to a certain style that involves me having to click 2 times instead of 1. I went searching for an answer on the Internet and just like every other time in my history of using Microsoft (and most every other software), there were many people through a number of years with similar issues that have never ever been addressed by Microsoft. Oh well, I just get used to it and move on. The tools may not be perfect, but they still aid me in writing, studying, and general computer use.
On the other hand, while Logos may not be able to answer each and every concern, they do make an effort to listen to their users. Recently, A change in highlighting use in the mobile app became a concern for many users. Instead of ignoring their concern, Logos has gone to great depths in order to not only fix the issue, but make mobile app use easier for others as well. Yes, they may not have addressed every concern that I have, but they have addressed many, which is better than the zero that I have received from most every other software company.
So, you are correct, we cannot compare Logos to Microsoft, or many other software companies for that matter. When it comes to listening and at least attempting to respond to their customers, it really is like comparing apples to oranges.
For this reason, I tend to trust Logos and what they seek to do in the future. I am not a supporter of the subscription model per se; I am someone who generally prefers to “own” things as opposed to “rent” them. That being said, I trust that what Logos is seeking to do is in the best interest of long-term staying power for the company, and thereby a way of helping the user to have access to Logos — well into the future.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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MJ. Smith said:xnman said:
If I use Verbum and Logos the searches would have different results wouldn't they? (Verbum would have Catholic results in them, right?)
No, the search yields the same results in Logos and Verbum - I've run the two in parallel for many years, using one as my beta platform. As for "Catholic results", an accurate answer explaining how there is no distinction in the search between "accurate result", "Catholic result", "Eastern Orthodox result", "progressive Lutheran result", and "my neighbor's home church result" is far too long to be appropriate in the forums. Searches provide results that are only as biased or neutral as your question and your resources.
Welll... that I didn't know. Ok MJ....I will load Verbum and try it out... But I didn't mean what you thought. I meant I didn't want things like the apocryphal books in my search.
Edit: Maybe I will load it. Looks like I have to buy a separate license just like Logos. hmmm.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
Edit: Maybe I will load it. Looks like I have to buy a separate license just like Logos. hmmm.
You shouldn't need to buy a license; just install the application from https://verbum.com/install
FWIW, I don't recommend doing so. Verbum is 99.5% the same application, so installing it will double the disk space required as it downloads all your books and indexes them all over again to provide almost exactly the same features. (The primary difference is that in Search there are built-in collections of Church Documents and Church Fathers, which may be empty collections for you if you don't own those resources. Also, the splash screen is different.)
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I know this is a bit off topic, but I curious to see what the Verbum splash screen looks like.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
(The primary difference is that in Search there are built-in collections of Church Documents and Church Fathers, which may be empty collections for you if you don't own those resources. Also, the splash screen is different.)
Is there a way to get a similar search feature for Church Fathers outside of Verbum? (I'm not sure what it looks like, I only have the "standard" Logos platform.) I would imagine something like that would be very useful to Orthodox and Lutheran users, and perhaps others.
Pastor, Immanuel Evangelical-Lutheran Church (LCMS), Alexandria, VA
Vice President, The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (East-Southeast Region)
Author of (Dis)ordered: Lies about Human Nature and the Truth That Sets Us Free
Personal website: Esgetology
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xnman said:
But I didn't mean what you thought. I meant I didn't want things like the apocryphal books in my search.
That is precisely what I thought you meant. However, that issue is not Catholic but the church at large - nor is Catholicism monolithic on the canon. ChatGPT estimates 70-80% of Christians worldwide use some deuterocanonical books i.e. much larger than just "Catholic". Please use capital C Catholic only when that is what is meant.
In both Logos and Verbum, the user controls the default canon. I normally use the ecumenical canon but occasionally change my prioritization to allow Enoch to be treated as Biblical.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Christopher Esget said:
Is there a way to get a similar search feature for Church Fathers outside of Verbum?
The difference is that in Logos you must build the collection of Church Fathers yourself rather than the system providing the collection by default. The same is true for Church documents and Catechisms.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Christopher Esget said:
Is there a way to get a similar search feature for Church Fathers outside of Verbum?
The difference is that in Logos you must build the collection of Church Fathers yourself rather than the system providing the collection by default. The same is true for Church documents and Catechisms.
I guess I've already done that, partially. I've put a lot of my patristic sources into a collection called "Patristics," and access that for particular passages via a custom guide.
Pastor, Immanuel Evangelical-Lutheran Church (LCMS), Alexandria, VA
Vice President, The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (East-Southeast Region)
Author of (Dis)ordered: Lies about Human Nature and the Truth That Sets Us Free
Personal website: Esgetology
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Ronald Quick said:
I know this is a bit off topic, but I curious to see what the Verbum splash screen looks like.
Ronald - here you go!
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:xnman said:
Edit: Maybe I will load it. Looks like I have to buy a separate license just like Logos. hmmm.
You shouldn't need to buy a license; just install the application from https://verbum.com/install
FWIW, I don't recommend doing so. Verbum is 99.5% the same application, so installing it will double the disk space required as it downloads all your books and indexes them all over again to provide almost exactly the same features. (The primary difference is that in Search there are built-in collections of Church Documents and Church Fathers, which may be empty collections for you if you don't own those resources....)
MJ. Smith said:Christopher Esget said:Is there a way to get a similar search feature for Church Fathers outside of Verbum?
The difference is that in Logos you must build the collection of Church Fathers yourself rather than the system providing the collection by default. The same is true for Church documents and Catechisms.
Wondering if there is a way to download all the features of Logos and Verbum without double downloading all of the resources. I am thinking Venn Diagram of features.
If this is not a possibility, you should create a product called "Lobum" or "Vergos", which combines both Logos and Verbum features into one.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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You can download the features without the resources. But as MJ mentions, Verbum is just barely different from Logos ... I don't use collections, so Verbums' are invisible. I tag my Catholic and Orthodox separately for searching. The big difference, is Verbum is prettier (triangle and latin).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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1Cor10 31 said:
If this is not a possibility, you should create a product called "Lobum" or "Vergos", which combines both Logos and Verbum features into one.
I like the sound of 'Vergos' but somehow 'Lobum' does not inspire confidence 😛
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DMB said:
You can download the features without the resources. But as MJ mentions, Verbum is just barely different from Logos ... I don't use collections, so Verbums' are invisible. I tag my Catholic and Orthodox separately for searching. The big difference, is Verbum is prettier (triangle and latin).
Yeah, but my Logos splash screen is even prettier (circle and well — “not” Latin[;)]). It also has awesome scripture quotes.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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Sam Shelton said:
Yeah, but my Logos splash screen is even prettier (circle and well — “not” Latin
).That image is painfully boring. Smiling. Besides, growing up, our library had latin on the entrance. Makes me feel like Verbum is a real library (shhh ... quiet!).).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
That image is painfully boring. Smiling. Besides, growing up, our library had latin on the entrance. Makes me feel like Verbum is a real library (shhh ... quiet!).).
Maybe not as fancy as you Verbumites might like but hey, what can I say. I remember when they changed the name of our Library to “Media Center.” We had both microfilm and microfiche readers!
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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We've really valued your feedback on this thread. We've read every comment and discussed many of them.
If you have five minutes, we'd appreciate you completing this survey.
Completing the survey will help us better understand your desires and concerns as we move towards subscription.
Thanks for your ongoing help!
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Done!
Blessings in Christ.
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Done.
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Done. Good survey. Thank you.
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Done; helpful survey. I deeply appreciate Logos, and especially the gracious responses to many questions/ concerns!
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Done. Some questions such as the 400 books could not be answered as I have not found it easy to find what those 400 books are
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I like this survey question:
"How important is. . .The sustainability of Logos’s business and its ability to support its users for decades to come?"
Having experienced the closing of many software (including Bible software) companies in the past 4 years, not to mention the upending of many organisations and societies globally, any agreement must be good for all, not just one party. I see this phase as one of negotiating terms and I appreciate Logos engaging here.
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Don Awalt said:Ronald Quick said:
I know this is a bit off topic, but I curious to see what the Verbum splash screen looks like.
Ronald - here you go!
Thanks - I like it.
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MJ. Smith said:
Though I have no interest in the subscription - it would be nice if there was an option/check box to show only the books that I would gain with the subscription. If I were interested in the subscription model, having to scroll through everything and try to count/record what I would gain access to would deter me. FL may want to update this to work like the L10 and legacy upgrade pages - allow users to select "New to You"
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I would appreciate some clarification from Logos concerning the Banner ads.
I got my first banner ad yesterday, and then again today - right in the main workspace on my desktop. Very frustrating and disappointing. On another thread someone showed me how you can turn them off.
Are non-subscribers still going to be able to have the option to turn off the banners or will one have to pay a monthly subscription to disable them?
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I've completed the survey too. Thanks for all your efforts to answer everyone's questions and make this transition as easy as possible.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I did the survey.
I pointed out though that Adobe did the same thing and knocked out the smaller publishers. I pray each week that my old computer will continue to turn on and run CS4. I did try a black Friday deal when they first made the change and heavly discounted but the amount of internet speed you needed them just didn't work on rural dial up. For 2 years the phone company pulled / denied dial up to my area as we were to small for them to continue to provide service to and to costly for them to up grade the area. So I learned to use the library for both work and play. Then in winter or when the roads were not useable I learned to use my cell phone data plan that generally was used up in 2 weeks or less per month. Adventually our isp got the government grant to bring fiber to my area (I think it was last October / November) but it is pretty costly so I will use it just in the winter months when the weather is to bad to get to the library.
So your assumption is all your users are on fast fiber internet in the city? Will you require internet on all the time or just weekly checks? Will you have a mode that reduces the internet to those on a data plan? Otherwise after about 10 checks the users data plan will be maxed and they won't be able to use your subscription nor anything else on thier phone/device. I learned this fast when I spent 2 years on a hotspot and my phone data plans for work and play, again depending on what all I tried to do less then 2 weeks each month. I learned to turn off all celluar and make all apps run with only wifi. I then saw 90% of my apps not be able to work without internet all the time. When I was hotspoting to all my fun devices I had to choose reduce internet and basicly could not do anything to the point I unplugged them and put them in a box. I then forgot about them and recently came across that box and started to sort them and give them away. I don't really want to keep internet hog devices anymore.I pray that you don't price logos out of the common person ability to study and go back to pre martin luther where only the preist in latin can view the Bible.
Please don't knock out the smaller Bible study groups, tiny rural churches, regular folks with subscription. Please keep an old non subscription for us.
I also miss logos imessages stickers from your past updates. I keep an old ipad ios 12 for the very reason it still can use logos imessages stickers. So new is not really better when what I use is taken away. "New" is just a word the action generally is taking away the old and that ends up not being the progress that is touted in the word "New"
Please let me buy logos imessages stickers in the apple apps store for .99 cents so I can use religous emojees, Bible verses, and images again instead of having to use secular or the longer route of sending my old ipad sticker to my newer iphone to post in a text.
Until I can have "old" back and "low" data usage I am not moved at all by the "New"
May God bless you in your work and helping us to study the Bible. Thanks.
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Having had a very rural childhood, I am very glad to see you discuss the situation in rural areas. A decade ago I was pressing for the use of Logos/Verbum for churches with parishioners spread over vast areas.
IowaUSA said:back to pre martin luther where only the preist in latin can view the Bible.
This is inaccurate information e.g. Bede translated the Bible into Old English circa 730 AD; the Gothic Bible is 4th century - the translator Wulfila had to invent an alphabet for it ... Not to mention that even when the Bible was in Latin, it was often left out in chains so that it could be read by all literate people but not be stolen.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Donnie said:
I would appreciate some clarification from Logos concerning the Banner ads.
Thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't noticed these banner ads on the home screen before. Personally, I think they did a great job with the banner - highlighting relevant deals for me and providing a very intuitive option to turn it off if desired. I don't understand the negativity. One can simply click the settings button right above it and turn it off, problem solved. I would be extremely surprised if this banner has anything at all to do with the upcoming subscription options.
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Aaron Hamilton said:Donnie said:
I would appreciate some clarification from Logos concerning the Banner ads.
Thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't noticed these banner ads on the home screen before. Personally, I think they did a great job with the banner - highlighting relevant deals for me and providing a very intuitive option to turn it off if desired. I don't understand the negativity. One can simply click the settings button right above it and turn it off, problem solved. I would be extremely surprised if this banner has anything at all to do with the upcoming subscription options.
Those kind of ads have always appeared on the Home section, where they belong, not on the main workspace. But the biggest concern I have is that while we have the option to disable them now, is if going forward you would need to be a paying subscriber in order to have those ads not show. That is a major concern to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Relevant deals should come through e-mail, where you can decide if you want to see it or not, not in the middle of your Bible study.
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I understand. I too would be very perturbed if they removed the option to disable this or any other type of advertisement for anyone. I suppose I differ from you only in the expectation that removing this option is something they would not now or in the future seriously consider. I also haven't quite understood what you meant with main workspace. I only noticed the banner in the Homescreen. The banner goes away when I leave the Homescreen. Is this different for you?
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Yes. It appeared for me, twice in two days, in my normal space with my Bible and commentary up. That to me is intrusive. I don't really care what they put in the home screen. Those would fit well there. But my Bible study space... I never wanted to see any kind of advertisement there.
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I agree with you. I haven't experienced this, but I agree that it would be unwelcome and intrusive. I have only seen the banner and any other advertisement in the home section, and I hope it stays that way. My hope is that what you experienced was only a fluke that they were/will be quick to fix.
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Donnie said:Aaron Hamilton said:Donnie said:
I would appreciate some clarification from Logos concerning the Banner ads.
Thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't noticed these banner ads on the home screen before. Personally, I think they did a great job with the banner - highlighting relevant deals for me and providing a very intuitive option to turn it off if desired. I don't understand the negativity. One can simply click the settings button right above it and turn it off, problem solved. I would be extremely surprised if this banner has anything at all to do with the upcoming subscription options.
Those kind of ads have always appeared on the Home section, where they belong, not on the main workspace. But the biggest concern I have is that while we have the option to disable them now, is if going forward you would need to be a paying subscriber in order to have those ads not show. That is a major concern to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Relevant deals should come through e-mail, where you can decide if you want to see it or not, not in the middle of your Bible study.
I think banners are a minor concern. You have the option to disable them because FL provided the option, as they did for the Notification Bar and they listened to users about automatically showing the Store button in the main toolbar.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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