FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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I've noticed a bug in the forum: when you click on “Last” or the number of the last page (in this post 16) it goes back to page 1. This has happened to me in several posts.
EDITION:
Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Anderson Abreu said:
I've noticed a bug in the forum: when you click on “Last” or the number of the last page (in this post 16) it goes back to page 1. This has happened to me in several posts.
EDITION:
Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.This is true. I believe a fix is in the works and will be released shortly (next month?), taking on the form of entirely new forum software.
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Anderson Abreu said:
Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.
I’ve noticed this quite a few times. Seems to me it is when there are a certain number of posts the system starts a new page. for some reason, once in a while, you are not taken to the next new page but, as you say, the beginning of the thread. Then, a few minutes later it seems to have registered there is a new page and lets you navigate to it.
👁️ 👁️
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Antony Brennan said:
Then, a few minutes later it seems to have registered there is a new page and lets you navigate to it.
Hummm, but I don't remember it being minutes later. There were posts where it lasted more than a day at least. In the case of this one, it was hours.
I suspect the problem is
1) either the system opens a new page (page 16) without a post on it;2) or that someone wrote a comment, the system opened page 16, then the person deleted the comment, but the system “kept” the new page with no comment on it and making the site bug the link to go to the last page. It's as if there was a conflict.
In any case, it seems that when this happens, if you write a new comment the last page works again, as was the case with this post. I'll take a closer look.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Anderson Abreu said:Antony Brennan said:
Then, a few minutes later it seems to have registered there is a new page and lets you navigate to it.
Hummm, but I don't remember it being minutes later. There were posts where it lasted more than a day at least. In the case of this one, it was hours.
I suspect the problem is
1) either the system opens a new page (page 16) without a post on it;2) or that someone wrote a comment, the system opened page 16, then the person deleted the comment, but the system “kept” the new page with no comment on it and making the site bug the link to go to the last page. It's as if there was a conflict.
In any case, it seems that when this happens, if you write a new comment the last page works again, as was the case with this post. I'll take a closer look.
In my experience it is # 2) - and probably in some cases not the user themselves deleting their comment, but the comment being held or deleted by spam prevention. It's something I wouldn't worry about.
Have joy in the Lord!
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I am coming into the beta testing a little late, so I apologize of my comments have been already sated by others. Here is my suggestion for the new tools bar:
1) Have keyboard shortcut for each item
2) Allow me to disable the text and see just icons...the menu is quite cluttered
3) After a submenu is clicked have the option for the submenu to disappear after clicking to reclaim the space automatically
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I have been using this quite heavily in creating TIP for the day entries. I find that the extra clicks required are not noticeable because of the proximity of the clicks and that the new menu is generally a faster access. There are a few items such as visual filters and factbook filters that I still have to search for ... which is a real pain. But all in all I think it is one of your better redesigns.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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New Resource Toolbar is a Cluttered Mess!
The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with a single click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes three clicks to turn it on and another three clicks to turn it off and return to the home tab. Six clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy!
There is still no "Follow Only" option for linked sets.
Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse.
I do really like the new location of "Parallel Books". That is a very nice change. It's clean and it is more intuitive.
Thanks for asking for feedback and for listening.
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Visiting a friend and giving them some help with how to use Logos gave me opportunity to use the old toolbar for a few hours with them. I honestly miss it. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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Hello
I would love if I get the Info if I click on the cover image.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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John Fallahee said:
1) Have keyboard shortcut for each item
2) Allow me to disable the text and see just icons...the menu is quite cluttered
3) After a submenu is clicked have the option for the submenu to disappear after clicking to reclaim the space automaticallyYou're right. And your three items have already been pointed out by several users since the beginning of this post.
David said:The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with a single click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes three clicks to turn it on and another three clicks to turn it off and return to the home tab. Six clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy! (...) Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse.
John Goodman said:I honestly miss it. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.
Every time I use the new Toolbar I can't help but think that whoever is designing it is not an active Logos user who actually uses Logos on a personal and weekly basis for their studies and sermon preparation. The team should have people like that (if they don't) and should listen to the users who have been using the software for years.
The new toolbar is making it difficult to find the things that matter most and are used most often. I'm not getting to like the Toolbar after I activated the beta also on the computer I use daily and was forced to use the bar on a daily basis. If it's kept, there's an urgent need for customization with quick access icons and shortcuts. But it seems that the users who got Logos/Verbum this far aren't being listened to.
Sorry, but that's how I feel at the moment.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti
single tab goes to the delete icon instead of it selects the content of the word and we can type an new word. So you have to click more than necessary.
If you want to give us a mouse arm or an RSI, then stay with this design. Otherwise change it.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti
single tab goes to the delete icon instead of it selects the content of the word and we can type an new word. So you have to click more than necessary.
If you want to give us a mouse arm or an RSI, then stay with this design. Otherwise change it.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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John Goodman said:
. I do think we had quicker access to a lot of features. I'm not against change if it makes things easier to find but I think this solution does actually make some common tasks slower.
I'm not an 'against-er'. It's just my layouts can't use the new multi-menu approach. In fact, they didn't show the old approach very good, either (couldn't choose the ordering of displayed icons, when narrowing the panel). I'm just hoping they'll stick with subscription-only for the new approach.
I could easily be wrong, but 'way-back' I remember Bob de-crying multi-level menuing (the old Windows), in favor of panels and high-use icons, as quicker/easier. The right-click panel was/is a winner.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Anderson Abreu said:
I've noticed a bug in the forum: when you click on “Last” or the number of the last page (in this post 16) it goes back to page 1. This has happened to me in several posts.
EDITION:
Now that I've posted a comment and it's gone to page 16, the problem has disappeared. It's a bug.This is reported here https://community.logos.com/forums/t/225526.aspx.
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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Fabian said:
We have a word in German for the new Toolbar Klickibunti (...) So you have to click more than necessary.
I had to resort to AI to understand the joke! It's very true lol
IA ChatGPT:
"The word "Klickibunti" seems to be a combination of two informal German words: "klicken" (to click, as in using a mouse) and "bunt" (colorful or flashy). The expression suggests a critique of software interfaces that are overly "decorated" or excessively visual, where there are many unnecessary colors and buttons, leading to a more complicated or inefficient user experience.
In practice, "Klickibunti" can be understood as a criticism of a visually exaggerated design that sacrifices usability. It's a way of saying that something requires too many clicks or interactions, with a visually overloaded interface that's more focused on appearance than functionality.
The expression would be equivalent to something like "too many clicks and colors," suggesting that simplicity has been replaced by unnecessary complexity. This fits well in the context of the criticism of Logos, which seems to have made interactions more complicated by requiring more clicks."
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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I am not qualified to comment on your understanding of klickibunti, but I am qualified to verify with certainty your assessment of the new resource-specific toolbar(s). Your last sentence sums it up well...unfortunately.
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One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.
Idem!
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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As we get closer to the release date - this forced on the user "Dynamic Toolbar" is growing as more of a deterrent to me giving Logos a chance with the new plan.... I'm already not pleased with the direction - but to add in this forcing of an inefficient change on users is nonsensical IMHO!
Why create a less efficient use and FORCE it on users?
I see users bemoaning the extra time and "clicks" to do what we already were able to do in an efficient manner....
I will again post the call for a CHOICE of toolbars.... It has been shown functionally in a promo video on these forums - so it is possible....
To the argument that it may not be cost efficient to maintain both toolbars - a few points in response... First, if the Dynamic Toolbar is only for subscribers - the traditional is being maintained anyways. Second, even if there is a cost to maintaining a "choice" - that should be settled within Logos - as users should not be penalized due to poor planning in relation to a feature.... Other features have been dropped due to lack of popularity, etc.... Why keep and force a time wasting feature on the users? Third, we are told that subscriptions are needed for sustainability - so subscribers should be providing enough sustainability to not be forced into inefficiency....
If this feature keeps customers out of the subscription pool or has them give up on the subscription due to inefficiency - the cost to keep a choice should be worth it....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Aaron Hamilton said:
One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.
Definitely have no desire to lose that efficiency!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:
I see users bemoaning the extra time and "clicks" to do what we already were able to do in an efficient manner....
A quick access, personalizable tab, as Anderson has been pushing for, would, I think, go a long way in solving inefficiency concerns. That would be pretty sweet and could be tweaked by the user based on evolving needs.
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Aaron Hamilton said:Frank Sauer said:
I see users bemoaning the extra time and "clicks" to do what we already were able to do in an efficient manner....
A quick access, personalizable tab, as Anderson has been pushing for, would, I think, go a long way in solving inefficiency concerns. That would be pretty sweet and could be tweaked by the user based on evolving needs.
That may alleviate some of the issue and may improve the use of Logos for some - that said, keeping a "classic" toolbar option for the "OG" users and users who could care less about "fluff" in their interface would go a long way. Changing the look of icons or colors is one thing - changing the entirety of use for a program that is intended to study the Word is another.... Change for the sake of change or "new" is silly if it causes inefficient use or long time users to have to relearn how to use the program.
As a side note, a lot of comparisons are incorrectly used with Microsoft in relation to the subscription change - so maybe Logos should also look to Microsoft in relation to the toolbar option - they kept the classic available for experienced users for a long time (The option may still be there, but I cannot be sure, as I have not used Word in a few years)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Not much about the organization seems intuitive to me. It's like we now have folders that are ineffectively labeled "misc," "etc," "more" ... and just try to guess the contents! We have to hunt and dig for what used to be in front of us. It's not awful, some things about it are even better. But just to access an interlinear, which used to be one click is now three clicks. At least make a way to toggle interlinear with a shortcut. That one is awful.
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As we get closer to the subscription early discount cutoff date, I must ask, "Are we really stuck with this toolbar?" Having used this subscriber toolbar since the first beta I find the subscriber toolbar may be a reason to cancel the subscription. If non-subscribers keep the better toolbar, I agree with others that this toolbar needs to be optional. The new interface is cumbersome, busy, disorganized, and slow.
If changing the toolbar, can we please have a simple, clean, customizable, easy-to-use toolbar? Also, why is there some kind of fade transition between menu items on the toolbar? Was it not slow enough having to click through the options to find what you're looking for?
I really don't like being negative about this, but Logos asked for feedback. I've tried it. It's not for me. I think it's clunky at best. Subscribers get other features you can choose to use or not use. This is an interface change that, according to this thread, has no choice. The choice is subscribe or don't subscribe. I subscribed very early. Based on this new toolbar, I'm questioning whether I made the wrong choice. Will Logos impose other "downgrades" on its subscribers?
I do want to balance my negative overall thoughts with one positive change. As an Obsidian user for my notes, I was distressed about the initial loss of L4 links (they've been restored in Bibles). Having used the URL links now, I do think the URL solution is better.
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On a very positive note, we can print/export from either Tools or Share.
Please do that with Interlinear. Thanks.0 -
New Dynamic Toolbar is a Cluttered Mess!
I understand LOGOS vision to make LOGOS easier to learn. This desire can be clearly seen in the Dynamic toolbar. If you were using LOGOS for the first time, the Dynamic Toolbar might be a good idea. But LOGOS is making ease of use for the first time user a higher priority than functional use on an ongoing basis.
For example: The Interlinear Bible used to be accessible with one click, and turning it off was just as easy - one click. Now, it takes EIGHT clicks to turn it on / off and return to the home tab. EIGHT clicks compared to two! Since pastors use the Interlinear Bible numerous times on numerous passages - this is crazy!
Here's another example: To turn on the VISUAL FILTER TAG use to be one click on, one click off. - Now it takes 8 clicks to do the same thing! Plus the user must remember to go to: FORMATTING/EMPHASIZE/SHOW VISUAL EMPHASIS - just to use this feature. My friend, that is not easier.
Logos has gone BACKWARDS on this new Dynamic Toolbar. The only people who cannot see this are the developers. They may have gotten tunnel vision by focusing so much on the brand new LOGOS user experience - that they have forgotten the majority of their users.
In addition, there is now so much clutter in LOGOS app. It's not clean at all. It's a distracting mess of too many words at the top of every tab.
Please understand that I love new ideas, and I am a big LOGOS user / fan. But IMHO, LOGOS has put form over function when it comes to the Dynamic Toolbar. LOGOS has catered to the first time user, at the expense of the majority of their customers.
Conclusion: The new Resource Toolbar feels cluttered and distracting. It was much cleaner, and more user-friendly before. This update has not improved the interface—it's actually made things worse. On the flip side, I do really like the new location of "Parallel Books". That is a very nice change. It's clean and it is more intuitive.
Thanks for asking for feedback and for taking the time to consider this POV.
LOGOS users - please respond or we are going to be STUCK with this poorly "redesigned" Dynamic Toolbar.
Blessings!PS: We would still love to have a "Follow Only" option for linked sets. We have been begging for this very simple feature for a very long time.
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David said:
PS: We would still love to have a "Follow Only" option for linked sets. We have been begging for this very simple feature for a very long time.
Logos provided this in the form of the multi-view panel. Because we don't know the details of the system architecture we have to trust their judgement on how to implement a feature.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Anderson Abreu said:
In practice, "Klickibunti" can be understood as a criticism of a visually exaggerated design that sacrifices usability.
In other words, it is the best term for nearly every YouTube thumbnail I see these days. (Appealing to the lowest common dumb-inator.)
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Way too much clutter! More complicated, redundant than former, simpler, cleaner tool bar!
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