FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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Eli Evans (Logos) said:
I can confirm that the secondary toolbar re-appearing when you restart Logos is working as designed. That design may or may not be wrong and need to change, of course.
For me this design of re-appearing of the secondary toolbar after each restart of Logos is wrong. It should follow the user's decision to tuck it away and keep it there instead of knowing better.. I end up closing them after each restart. Annoying, so if you don't mind, change it to not re-appearing after a restart.
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Luuk Dondorp said:
For me this design of re-appearing of the secondary toolbar after each restart of Logos is wrong. It should follow the user's decision to tuck it away and keep it there instead of knowing better.. I end up closing them after each restart. Annoying, so if you don't mind, change it to not re-appearing after a restart.
I completely agree with this. I don't want to have to hide it every time.
Justin
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Frank Wei said:
I regret to see another row being added to the top of the window.
If you click on the active tab, the extra line disappears.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I agree with what I've seen in the replies. This feature brings to surface those handy tools that I would often forget to utilize. Smart thinking, y'all.
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Aaron Hamilton said:Aaron Hamilton said:
One of the main things I miss is the one click toggle on/off of the old toolbar.
I had a thought today. In order to not divide the button into two parts (which might be confusing for new users), but still keep the same functionality, could a double click be used? For example: a single click on the interlinear button would open the drop-down menu, while a double click in quick succession would toggle interlinear options on and off. This perhaps would give users the best of both worlds?
I don't accept the premise that toggle buttons are confusing to people who use toggle functionality on literally all their other devices. Using visual cues (i.e. the different parts of the button light up when you hover over them to tell the user this is a two-part button) is a pretty straight forward way to let the user know that part of the button is toggle and the downward pointing arrow is a dropdown menu.
All the hunting through different menus and then having to hunt through dropdown menus just to turn a feature on and off has added way too many additional clicks.
For me the functions most impacted by this are the interlinear button and parallel text (multi-text view) button. I really would like the ability to just set those and then turn them on and off. And all the visual filters are spread out across different menus. I understand why but it just adds so many additional clicks. At least restore toggle functionality so that we can cut down on as many clicks as possible.
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Eli Evans (Logos) said:
All good feedback, and much appreciated. Don't have time to respond to everything in detail, but I wanted you to know we're listening. Thanks!
And we're happy to hear that. Thank you very much, we want the best for Logos.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Mateus de Castro said:
The 'view' tab on the toolbar could have some formatting options, but zoom and interlinear (at least) could go back to 'outside' and be buttons on the toolbar for ease of use. They are basic for language resources and should not have been put 'inside' some tab.
The Factbook could also be left out. But I still prefer the option of customizing by adding visible shortcuts in the toolbar
____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Anderson Abreu said:
we want the best for Logos
Truly! I literally couldn't ask for a better user base. Love all y'all, and I also love working on a product that actually matters to people.
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Luuk Dondorp said:Eli Evans (Logos) said:
I can confirm that the secondary toolbar re-appearing when you restart Logos is working as designed. That design may or may not be wrong and need to change, of course.
For me this design of re-appearing of the secondary toolbar after each restart of Logos is wrong. It should follow the user's decision to tuck it away and keep it there instead of knowing better.. I end up closing them after each restart. Annoying, so if you don't mind, change it to not re-appearing after a restart.
I agree 100% with Luuk's assessment and request. It has been very annoying having to close each secondary toolbar in my layout after each restart. Please change it to not re-appear each time the program is restarted or each time a layout is re-opened.
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Again, normally we don't like to preview upcoming work, but I will say that a shortcut to toggle the Inline Reverse Interlinear is coming. This will function alongside the existing shortcut Ctrl+Shift+R / Cmd+Shift+R to toggle the Reverse Interlinear Pane and will likely land in version 38. The tooltips for both will be visible in the Interlinear Options dropdown in the dynamic toolbar.
As Eli alluded to, we have some work to do internally to improve our ability to add and reliably keep track of keyboard shortcuts. But we hear you and understand that keyboard shortcuts are even more valuable now for power users with the dynamic toolbar in place.
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Nick Mueller said:
As Eli alluded to, we have some work to do internally to improve our ability to add and reliably keep track of keyboard shortcuts. But we hear you and understand that keyboard shortcuts are even more valuable now for power users with the dynamic toolbar in place.
Thanks Nick. I was just about to post a rant thread that for the first time in 9 years as a user I now have to memorize short-cut keys in my middle age. But I will refrain. Visible tool-tips will be very helpful. Are the interlinear functions the only ones getting tool-tips or are you putting them everywhere that they are relevant?
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Nick Mueller said:
we hear you and understand that keyboard shortcuts are even more valuable now for power users with the dynamic toolbar in place
Thanks, but I hope brainstorming is continuing for another solution as well. Moving the mouse to that tiny oval after clicking a button to turn it on is not only inefficient for power users. It's inefficient for every user.
Please understand that I appreciate the team's work on this toolbar. I'm one who (almost) loves it. But this is a sore spot that I really hope gets fixed. Yes, it's most apparent with the interlinear. But I dislike the cumbersome on/off on all of the buttons to which it applies.
At the very least, if no other solution can be found, please at least extend the on/off clickable zone to encompass the entire top part of the drop-down menu (e.g. where "interlinear options" is written) so that making that extra click doesn't take so long.
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I am reading in the Expositor's Greek Testament, and the author cites a passage from Eusebius in Greek. Yes, I have Eusebius in English, but Logos is supposed to be for scholars. Not all scholars are fluent in Greek outside the Koine. But Logos can't translate it. But it could have been classical Greek. i have a book somewhere on Logos that refers to modern Greek to help understand a word in the Bible.
I think Logos should translate Greek too. Hey, translating was your idea.
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Where do I go for the Greek Interlinear view I had available in Logos 10?
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James Tanner said:
Where do I go for the Greek Interlinear view I had available in Logos 10?
Click View and then click "interlinear." or press ctrl+shift+r (r for reverse interlinear) on Windows or cmd+shift+r on Mac.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Larry Craig said:
I think Logos should translate Greek too.
If you can provide them with a link to a site that translates classical and koine Greek, I'm sure they would look into adding it. The engines they currently use translate only modern Greek.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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- Please save the state of the toolbar for each opened resource when saving a layout.
- Or alternatively save the state of the toolbar within the resource itself.
- Or provide a program setting to have it collapsed by default.
As mentioned by others, the new toolbar is more clear but quite cluttered, using a lot of real estate. I like it, but would like to keep it collapsed by default so I can focus on my resources, with less visual clutter.
Many thanks !!
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Famille Thevoz said:
- Please save the state of the toolbar for each opened resource when saving a layout.
- Or alternatively save the state of the toolbar within the resource itself.
- Or provide a program setting to have it collapsed by default.
As mentioned by others, the new toolbar is more clear but quite cluttered, using a lot of real estate. I like it, but would like to keep it collapsed by default so I can focus on my resources, with less visual clutter.
Many thanks !!
[Y]
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I like the options that are available, but honestly i like the layout that was there before. It took me a while to find the options that I used to know right where they were, and searching through the different tabs. I used to be able with one click to turn on interlinear, other resources, factbooks, etc. Now it takes going through the different tabs, a click on the option and then turn on/off the feature. This feels a little more clunky and not as fast. I would prefer being able to just click the on the feature to turn it on/off and the dropdown arrow next to it if i need to change some options.
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Larry Craig said:
I am reading in the Expositor's Greek Testament, and the author cites a passage from Eusebius in Greek. Yes, I have Eusebius in English, but Logos is supposed to be for scholars. Not all scholars are fluent in Greek outside the Koine. But Logos can't translate it. But it could have been classical Greek. i have a book somewhere on Logos that refers to modern Greek to help understand a word in the Bible. I think Logos should translate Greek too. Hey, translating was your idea.
ChatGPT is able to do this very efficiently. Specify to it that it is classical Greek or Koine and it will translate very efficiently. I've encountered translation errors on DeepL, but never on ChatGPT. When I think the GPT has translated too freely, I specify that I want a more exact or literal translation.
A suggestion for Faithlife would be to leave DeepL for those who have bought Logos 10 and are not subscribers, and provide a more intelligent and customizable translator for those who are subscribers (as I said, GPT does this very well). This would be another improvement offered in the subscription.____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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BibleWorks had a fully customizable tool ribbon, using icons, at the top of its screen which allowed the user to prioritize any of the program's functions while leaving unused functions invisible (though they were still accessible through drop-down menus).
Such "ribbon" functionality would be a far better option than the Dynamic Toolbar, particularly if:
*All Logos functions/utilities were assigned unique icons
*The ribbon could be customized for each screen layout.
Looking forward to any toolbar efficiency improvement ASAP.
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Where is the parallel resource button?
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To display the Interlinear view now requires two mouse clicks: one on the Interlinear button on the tool, and then another in the popup window to move the Interlinear Options slider to the right. Similarly to turn off the interlinear view and return to a non-interlinear view requires two more mouse clicks: on the Interlinear button to expose the popup window and another on the Interlinear Options slider to move it to the left. Recommend this feature be somehow modified to enable the interlinear view to be activated/deactivated with just one mouse click. Thanks.
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Nick Mueller said:
This will function alongside the existing shortcut Ctrl+Shift+R / Cmd+Shift+R to toggle the Reverse Interlinear Pane and will likely land in version 38.
Thanks for sharing. Shortcuts can certainly reduce difficulties and resistance to the new Toolbar.
Now this shortcut option raises another question for me. Why a more complex shortcut with three keys for commonly used functions and simpler shortcuts with two keys for less commonly used functions? For example:
- Currently CTRL+R (two keys) activates Reading.
- And CTRL+Shift+R (three keys) activates the Reverse Interlinear Panel.
I would prefer two-key shortcuts to be assigned to more frequently used tools and three-key shortcuts to less frequently used tools.
I suppose telemetry should indicate which tool is used most and this should be taken into account when deciding whether to assign 2- or 3-key shortcuts. Probably 1-key shortcuts (F1, F2 etc).
____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Kiyah said:Famille Thevoz said:
- Please save the state of the toolbar for each opened resource when saving a layout.
- Or alternatively save the state of the toolbar within the resource itself.
- Or provide a program setting to have it collapsed by default.
As mentioned by others, the new toolbar is more clear but quite cluttered, using a lot of real estate. I like it, but would like to keep it collapsed by default so I can focus on my resources, with less visual clutter.
Many thanks !!
The user experience concerning secondary toolbar(s) in resource windows begins with your screen size. If I'm using Logos on my 27" monitor the re-appearing secondary toolbars are still annoying but not nearly as much as when I'm mobile and working from my 14" laptop screen. Then those secondary toolbars really get in the way. And re-hiding them every time that I fire up Logos on my laptop is frustrating.
Can you give the user the same kind of option that exists in MS Word? In the Show Ribbon (aka secondary toolbar in Logos) Menu, the user can pick "Show Tabs Only" or "Always Show Ribbon." For my purposes and layouts, and especially on my laptop, the equivalent of "Show Tabs Only" would be perfect. I regain significant screen space, and if I need a certain option or tool, I can click on the appropriate menu (Home, Search, Notes, etc) and quickly find what I need. After that the secondary toolbar disappears again, and I'm back to work.
But another user may prefer the "Always Show Ribbon (secondary toolbar)" option. Choice is best.
Please consider adding this option. Thanks!
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Where is the parallel resources button in L2025? I used it often to quickly access a parallel resource, such as another Bible version or commentary. I hope this button will return soon. Thanks.
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I typed the query "What can you tell me about the origin of the Nicene Creed?" from the search button on the new toolbar and got a return (AI-generated? I'm not sure.) referencing Institutes of the Christian Religion but not the book Ecumenical Councils which details the council where that creed was written. Perhaps I did something wrong to not activate the AI LLM function which, I would expect, would have found and returned the info from the Ecumenical Councils book. If I failed to access the AI function in my query, then I guess my feedback is how to do that isn't intuitively obvious from the user interface. Thanks.
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C.J. (Johan) Barth said:
Where is the parallel resources button in L2025? I used it often to quickly access a parallel resource, such as another Bible version or commentary. I hope this button will return soon. Thanks.
It's now done via the Bible cover image:
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Don Stuart said:
I typed the query "What can you tell me about the origin of the Nicene Creed?" from the search button on the new toolbar and got a return (AI-generated? I'm not sure.) referencing Institutes of the Christian Religion but not the book Ecumenical Councils which details the council where that creed was written.
Hi Don
What kind of search did you run? What it an "All" search or a "Books" search?
In any case, when I ran that query I got this in the first sentence of the response (Synopsis):
"The Nicene Creed originated at the first Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D., convened by Emperor Constantine to address church divisions related to the Arian controversy"
Don Stuart said:Perhaps I did something wrong to not activate the AI LLM function which, I would expect, would have found and returned the info from the Ecumenical Councils book. If I failed to access the AI function in my query, then I guess my feedback is how to do that isn't intuitively obvious from the user interface. Thanks.
If you have subscribed to Logos Premium/Pro/Max you do not need to activate any AI function. It will already be active once your software has updated.
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Thank you very much!
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