FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
Comments
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I don't really like having to click on view and then interlinear rather than just the one click in the toolbar. to me it made it less user friendly.
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Pastor Jeremy Wallace said:
I don't really like having to click on view and then interlinear rather than just the one click in the toolbar.
Fortunately, we know Logos heard and acknowledged this as a problem. I expect to see their solution in the next 2 or 3 betas. I'm not going to guess what their solution will be.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This is one of the simplest, yet best additions to the program. It made everything easier to find and execute. Sometimes, its the little things in life. And that applies to Logos as well. WELL DONE!
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Ken F Hill said:
In almost every Windows program there is a way to access the main menu via the keyboard. Libreoffice Writer for example : Alt+F = File menu ; Alt+V = View menu ; Alt+O = Format menu ; Alt+T = Tools menu ... And generally, pressing Alt by itself lights up the main menu shortcuts. see image
Here is an example of why I would like the menu pinned at the top (again speaking from a keyboard hotkey kind of guy). The image below is of 2 panels, one (left) above the other (right). In the panel on the top half of the Logos window, the submenu pops up below the menu. In the panel on the bottom half of the Logos window, the submenu pops up above the menu.
I already feel like I am playing whack-a-mole with these 2 levels of menus scattered among books in multiple panels. If I have 4 panes open with 4 books each I have 16 toolbars, each of which can be with different settings.
Now I a feel like I'm playing Where's Waldo when menu popups appear in various positions.
It feels like I am going to wear out my wrist, click finger, and mouse (and maybe my eyeballs).
If the menu was pinned in one place it would be easier for me - assuming the menu could be accessed by keyboard like most Windows menus can. Please take into account the fact that all Logos users are not mouseketeers.
Again, I am hoping for options that allow keyboarders, like me, to work efficiently.
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I'm on the stable build on my current machine, but I have been spending some time with the new resource toolbar due to my consolidating my Wordsearch library under Logos.
Right now, I'm neutral on the toolbar. I was familiar enough with the old toolbar where I could easily navigate around, but I've found the new toolbar does surface functions easily. I'm generally not a huge fan of "ribbon" style interfaces (I'm kind of burned out by what Microsoft has done with the "ribbon"), but here it works really well finding features in the new resource toolbar. I've found features like in-line search, etc., adapt well with the new toolbar.
I'm not negative on it, that's for sure.
I'm more of a fan of the new toolbar than when the left hand toolbar first appeared in L10 (although I'm using the left hand toolbar for a couple of weeks right now so I can force myself to love it). :-)
If I had to make a decision on which toolbar is better, I'd need to consult an expert at making decisions.
Dr. Nathan Parker
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If the toolbars survive, I would appreciate an expanded click zone for the on-off toggles. The image below shows an area I think should be included in the click zone vs just the on-off toggle. I also noted another part of the options I'd like to see expanded click zones.
I would like expanded click zones everywhere possible in Logos.
I spend too much time carefully navigating to small buttons in order to click my mouse on them.
Thanks.
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Ken F Hill said:
I would appreciate an expanded click zone for the on-off toggles.
I see a case to do this on the prod schedule. Can't say when it will land, but I feel confident saying it's in the works.
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Ken F Hill said:
I also noted another part of the options I'd like to see expanded click zones.
Were my Dad still alive, he would have the same need. On the other hand, I have more problem finding the empty space to simply set focus and am not keen on expanding outside the visual markers of "hot space".
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I have more problem finding the empty space to simply set focus and am not keen on expanding outside the visual markers of "hot space".
I guess I don't understand the problem (happens a lot). I the click zone was expanded, you could still aim for the on-off toggle or any other shaped button. You would not be obliged to click in the "empty space". The hot space buttons would still be hot. If the click zones were expanded we would each be able to click where it is most convenient.
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When I am clicking to change which panel has focus I MUST click somewhere that does not initiate any action, I often end up using impolite language when trying to change focus kicks off an unwanted action. You are asking that what appears to be a safe place to click, isn't.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The checkboxes have expanded click zones. It's an inconsistency to not have it with the primary toggle, and I for one am greatly looking forward to a change in the dynamic toolbar that actually improves the click situation rather than making it worse. Anyone could test this for themselves. The time it takes to slightly lower the mouse to the expanded click zone for the toggle is significantly less than the time it takes to drag the mouse over to the oval.MJ. Smith said:When I am clicking to change which panel has focus I MUST click somewhere that does not initiate any action, I often end up using impolite language when trying to change focus kicks off an unwanted action. You are asking that what appears to be a safe place to click, isn't.
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MJ. Smith said:
You are asking that what appears to be a safe place to click, isn't.
I wondered if that was the problem. I sometimes run into that if I have Factbook tags turned on.
Perhaps an option to use extended click zones (if it does not result in excessive code bloat) ?
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Aaron Hamilton said:
The checkboxes have expanded click zones.
Thanks for pointing this out. Should help.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
The checkboxes have expanded click zones. It's an inconsistency to not have it with the primary toggle
As I said initially, my Dad needed expanded click zones. I hate them. I expect Logos to go with those who like them. I merely wished to point out there is a flip side which needs to be considered when determining the size of the expanded active area. A request to consider the other side of an issue is not the same as asking that it not be done - it's a request to ensure you have all relevant factors in your mind when you decide how to do it. Don't solve one problem by creating another.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The intention of my comment was not to disagree, but to highlight the inconsistency. You make a solid point here. Considering the lack of dead space in Logos, I have found that to be a problem as well, though it usually happens to me somewhere in the resource panel. I suppose that's one of the problems of Logos being feature rich - links are everywhere!MJ. Smith said:A request to consider the other side of an issue is not the same as asking that it not be done - it's a request to ensure you have all relevant factors in your mind when you decide how to do it. Don't solve one problem by creating another.
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My apologies - I'm a bit grumpy today.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I wanted to increase the font size (to help out these tired old eyes) and the help said to go to "search" and used a slider to do that. I went to "search" in the secondary tool bar and it had no slider. Disappointed I am.
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After poking around I found the solution to my problem. Under "view" there is a - and a + for increasing or decreasing font size.
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I was hesitant re: the subscription format and new layout, but I went ahead and early subscribed. I am so happy I did. I absolutely love the new format, very clear to understand where to find things ( after a couple goes[:)] ) I don't ave enough time in the day to spend using Logos. So enjoyable! Thank you!
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Hi David - and welcome to the forums
David Pursel said:I wanted to increase the font size
Does the information at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/29439681440525-Where-do-I-find-on-the-dynamic-toolbar#TextSlider help?
David Pursel said:and the help said to go to "search" and used a slider to do that.
Where, in which help document, did you see that?
Graham
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Graham Criddle said:
Where, in which help document, did you see that?
I think they just copied the main resource text-slider guidance into the search panel help.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Is there a way to change all books in a panel to the same toolbar configuration as the currently-focused book in the panel? Could there be in the final iteration?
I am getting very tired of whack-a-mole hiding the secondary menu when I navigate from book to book in a panel.
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DMB said:
I think they just copied the main resource text-slider guidance into the search panel help.
I'll let them know, thanks!
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This new layout would be significantly improved if it took fewer clicks to activate some of the features.
For example, I really don't like needing to click on "Interlinear" and then toggle the switch on every time (same for the Factbook, etc).
Could clicking on "Interlinear" simply activate the previous selections. Then the ˇ could offer the dropdown menu to add or subtract the other options?
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I've noticed that when I look at the primary toolbar and see "Home" I feel some confusion.
It would make more sense to me if the tab was labelled "Panel". But "Favorites" opens in a separate panel.
It would make more sense to me if "Favorites" was on the "Tools" tab which, unfortunately, is fairly crowded already. Perhaps on the "View" tab?
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Ken F Hill said:John Connell said:
I would prefer if the default was that the Secondary Toolbar be closed. As it is, when I open a new tab I have to close the Secondary Toolbar.
I agree completely.
I also agree. Logos, please add an option to hide the secondary toolbar by default upon opening a new resource panel.
Every time I open a saved layout, I have to close the secondary toolbar of multiple resource panels. The secondary toolbar opening by default not only adversely affects function, it also creates a visually annoying and cluttered appearance, especially when a saved layout is opened.
Adding an option to hide the secondary toolbar by default in my opinion is such an essential need that I’m surprised it was not originally included even prior to beta testing.
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Ken F Hill said:
It seems like I am continuously clicking to toggle the secondary menu out of sight. And it is becoming annoyingly distracting.
I would appreciate some way to force the secondary menu bar into hiding without that final click. There should be an option to auto hide when I click back in the book.
In addition to an option to hide the secondary toolbar by default, this idea would be very helpful when the secondary toolbar is needed. It would be more efficient than the current method of closing the toolbar because it would allow a user to stay focused on the text rather than looking up at the toolbar.
Ken F Hill said:Really, I would like both menus to go into hiding and use a hotkey or move the mouse to the top of the pane (like you do in full screen) to lure the menu back into sight.
This is a great idea! I know nothing about programing, but since the capability already exists in full screen, I would hope it would not be too difficult to implement.
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I would like it if the bright blue "New" capsule disappeared after I clicked on it, or at least was no longer blue. Having already looked at what it refers to, I don't know when something actually new has been added. I also find it distracting that the most visible aspect of the new nav bar is functionally irrelevant.
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I want the interlinear quick button back. It was so easy before to pull up the interlinear that now it makes it extra harder. Please get that setting back. One button push.
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The current beta gives it a time limit. It's purpose is to centralize responses to the new tool design so that Logos can adjust it quickly.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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While I don't know the form it will take, Logos has indicated that they have heard this request and will provide some sort of toggle like behavior as was present in the old resource tool bar.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Honestly, I can learn it, but wouldn't it be nice if you gave us veterans the option of staying with the old method, kind of like you did when you introduced the menus on the left side or on top? Users who start with the new layout will like it, but those who automatically know where features are now need to re-learn where to find features while already being pressed for time.
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It would be really nice if we could get some form of input from Logos on whether they will give the option - @Mark Barnes (Logos) @Bradley Grainger (Logos) - any chance that the decision to not provide an option has been or is being reconsidered?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I understand this view but my experience is that the cost in training, support, and documentation makes this a poor choice. Admitted my experience in administrative systems for a captive audience is not the same as the Logos situation but …
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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And I understand the view you are mentioning - the thing with it, is that Logos by choice is already having to maintain those costs for the difference for Subscribers and Non-Subscribers. They'd likely offset some of the cost with additional revenue from those not subscribing due to the Dynamic Toolbar.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I suspect the dynamic toolbar is controversial enough that after we see the results of this 1st round of feedback, iteration 2 may still leave many of us with residual frustrations. For example, if I have to keep constantly closing the secondary toolbar, in every book, whenever I relaunch Logos — I will be pounding my head against the wall even more forcefully than now. And posting here on the forum about it.
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I still have on my wish list:
- Tables in notes.
- External links to files from within notes.
- An efficient way to link verses and so indicate with an icon in each of the verses. For example, 1 Co 3:16; 5:6; 6:2, 3, 9, 15, 16, 19; 9:13, 24 all contain the question "Do you now know…?" Or the Περὶ δὲ in 1 Cor 7:1, 25; 8:1; 12:1; 16:1, 12. I now manually anchor dozens of textual and intertextual links in notes so that each verse has an indication of other parallels. This is explained in depth here: https://community.logos.com/discussion/97653/making-cross-references#latest
- The ability to hover over the text and immediately see all occurrences of the same term listed in another panel.
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The ability to hover over the text and immediately see all occurrences of the same term listed in another panel.
This is possible using the Corresponding Words Emphasize Visual Filter
This is outlined in https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036146912-3-How-to-Read-Your-Bible-and-a-Commentary-Together
More generally, I recommend noting these requests in separate threads as this one is particularly focused on the new resource toolbar.
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I Love the new reference toolbar.
For a number of reasons I've not been able to enjoy using Logos for almost a year now.
I must say, as good as Logos 10 has been since the upgrade from 9, I'm amazed at how many great additions and changes have come along the way.
Thank you Logos
Ps I personally wouldn't change a thing.
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After using the new "Dynamic" Toolbar for several months I still dislike it very much (Frankly, I hate it). It is such a step backward (unless you are a new Logos user). There are multiple actions that used to be done with ONE CLICK that now take multiple clicks. Many of these are actions I use 20-30 times per hour when I am studying for sermon prep (like Interlinear Bible for example). This equates to HUNDREDS OF NEEDLESS CLICKS.
Plus we have to reconfigure and collapse the Toolbar every time you open a new tab. Logos what were you thinking?
I tried cancelling my Logos Max Subscription so I could revert back to the good Toolbar but Logos said I cannot because I paid for the year in advance. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND NOT SUBSCRIBING TO THE NEW VERSION. Logos why are you penalizing your loyal, long time customers to cater to new users?
Logos please give us a simple option of staying with the old Toolbar. The new "Dynamic Toolbar" is a train wreck.
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The
resource toolbarsas it is one per tab ends up taking up a lot of screen real estate. Wouldn't it be possible to just do one at the top and have it work on whatever tap is active, kind of what the macOS does in its top bar?
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Your experience is one of the, if not the biggest risk of the prepay for the subscription…. Sure it leads to a fair discount, but since Logos refuses to allow for cancellation in such cases - users can be stuck with "improvements" that ruin the use of the software for them…. Very BAD business decision IMHO! But, just another example of why they need to stop ignoring requests for comment in relation to giving an option between the two toolbars - rather than forcing users to deal with it, like yourself. (once AGAIN - both toolbars are being maintained, we have seen Mark show having an option, as well as another user that had an experimental option for toolbars)
Sadly, your only chance of getting rid of the frustration is uninstalling, downloading and installing Version 36 and forgoing whatever else you have already paid for that is only available in newer versions for the rest of your prepaid subscription term….
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I agree completely. I suggested this a while back. It would make Logos feel like other apps (Windows in my case). Especially if, like other app's menus, it is accessible via the keyboard.
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There are elements of the new resource toolbar that are less efficient. In-line search has take a bit of a hit, with some additional mouse clicks. With this said, I generally like it and see how for new users it is more user friendly than the old UI.
One thing I noticed is that if I collapse it on a resource, the software does not remember its state in a saved layout. This would be a nice refinement over time. 🕰️1 -
toolbar remembered state . I agree. That's one of my big issues.
inline search . you can access it by ctrl+shift+F (Windows) if you don't mind keyboard hotkeys.
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that's exactly what i think! i just submitted this idea.
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Without knowing how things are going to shake out with the dynamic toolbar, I suggest putting an exit / close button on the upper left of an opened bottom interlinear. see image for one idea. ( I cannot think of any other such tools but if there are, exit-close buttons might be handy there too.)
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I
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I like the new toolbar setup. My only frustration (continually) has been the need to open a dropdown menu to toggle a tool on and off. For example, when I open a Bible and click the view tab, I wish that simply clicking "interlinear" or "parallel text" toggled it on and off rather than opening the dropdown and revealing another toggle switch. It is an added, unnecessary step that has been a daily frustration for me as I toggle these things on and off multiple times during my studies. Clicking interlinear (or parallel, etc.) should be the toggle switch, and then you only need the dropdown arrow to change settings.
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I'm sorry - I'm still not seeing it … I'm talking about the option to show it after its been dismissed or shown 3 times.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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