FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
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Ok, this is the last post I'm going to make about this, but the more I look into the new toolbar favorites menu, the more confused I get. The favorites menu appears to change whenever I switch resources, only reflecting the changes I made when I had that resource open. When I switch resources, it shows a new favorites menu that only reflects the changes I make while that resource is open, etc. The quick links, however, are uniform throughout. This behavior has me quite confused.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Ok, this is the last post I'm going to make about this, but the more I look into the new toolbar favorites menu, the more confused I get. The favorites menu appears to change whenever I switch resources, only reflecting the changes I made when I had that resource open. When I switch resources, it shows a new favorites menu that only reflects the changes I make while that resource is open, etc. The quick links, however, are uniform throughout. This behavior has me quite confused.
The favorites menu in the new toolbar only shows you the favorites that can be found in that resource. It's a resource-specific subset of the total list. (It took me a while to figure that out too... I even posted a bug report earlier in this thread before realizing what was going on.)
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Jonathan Huber said:
The favorites menu in the new toolbar only shows you the favorites that can be found in that resource. It's a resource-specific subset of the total list. (It took me a while to figure that out too... I even posted a bug report earlier in this thread before realizing what was going on.)
Thank you for this clarification. I'm not sure that I appreciate the change, however. I have the favorites that I have for a reason. I want to easily jump between those resources, and I don't have any need for a different favorites menu for every individual resource. If it is decided to keep the functionality as it is, I believe it should have a different name than "favorites." It is confusing to have this option share the name and icon of the other favorites menu, but function differently. Also, when I add resources on the apparently resource-specific menu, it populates on my old favorites menu, adding clutter. If there is a need for a resource-specific favorites or bookmarks menu, I would appreciate it if it were entirely separate from the old favorites menu so that I can continue to use my favorites menu as I have in the past.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Thank you for this clarification. I'm not sure that I appreciate the change
As far as I can see the Favorites option in the new toolbar is behaving the same as the Favorites option that used to be available from the left sidebar did.
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Graham Criddle said:
As far as I can see the Favorites option in the new toolbar is behaving the same as the Favorites option that used to be available from the left sidebar did.
I had no intention of remaining on this topic, but in order to further explain myself I would ask you to add a resource to the favorite menu (from the new toolbar) with one certain resource open. Then open a different resource and add a different resource to the new toolbar favorite menu while that resource is open. If your favorites menu functions as mine does, these resources will now reflect a different list of favorites.
Edit: When you said "sidebar," I understood "toolbar," as I was unaware of the resource-specific favorites menu in the left sidebar. Apologies for the confusion.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Then open a different resource and add a different resource to the new toolbar favorite menu while that resource is open. If your favorites menu functions as mine does, these resources will now reflect a different list of favorites.
What you are saying is that a refresh is not issued for all open occurrence of the tool ... while the lack of an automatic refresh is rare on new tools it is common on older tools. Simply refresh the favorites panel and they will match.
EDIT: I wrote this assuming that the left pane was understood to be a resource-dependent subset of the full tool panel. It apparently was not understood.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
What you are saying is that a refresh is not issued for all open occurrence of the tool ... while the lack of an automatic refresh is rare on new tools it is common on older tools. Simply refresh the favorites panel and they will match.
I have closed and opened Logos several times. The discrepancy remains.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
I have closed and opened Logos several times. The discrepancy remains.
As far as I can see your screenshot is showing favorites for the currently opened book - which isn't a change in behaviour from prior to the new toolbar.
Or am I missing your point? If so, apologies.
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Graham Criddle said:
As far as I can see your screenshot is showing favorites for the currently opened book - which isn't a change in behaviour from prior to the new toolbar.
Or am I missing your point? If so, apologies.
I'm sorry, I appear to be even more confused than I originally thought. I have been using the favorites tool and I have never noticed that it was resource specific prior to the new toolbar. A change in the favorites menu was reflected in all resources, regardless of what resource I had open.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
I have been using the favorites tool and I have never noticed that it was resource specific prior to the new toolbar.
The Favorites Tool itself is not resource specific.
But, prior to the new toolbar, there was an option in the left sidebar to see favorites that were specific to the book you were reading. It is this behaviour which is enabled using the Favorites menu in the new toolbar.
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Graham Criddle said:
The Favorites Tool itself is not resource specific.
But, prior to the new toolbar, there was an option in the left sidebar to see favorites that were specific to the book you were reading. It is this behaviour which is enabled using the Favorites menu in the new toolbar.
Thank you, Graham. This is the information I needed. I never used that resource-specific favorites option prior to the new toolbar (which emphasizes it much more). Playing around with it on my primary computer, I do not like how it populates my favorites tool. I enjoy using the favorites tool to find specific resources, and I do not need it cluttered by dozens of resource-specific links. Perhaps if these tools were separated from one another, e.g. favorites vs bookmarks, this would be more helpful for my purposes. Regardless, I now understand what is going on. Thank you for providing that clarification.
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Graham Criddle said:
The Favorites Tool itself is not resource specific. But, prior to the new toolbar, there was an option in the left sidebar to see favorites that were specific to the book you were reading. It is this behaviour which is enabled using the Favorites menu in the new toolbar.
If the initial idea with the Toolbar is to make it easier for the novice user, then these two “Favorites” need to be better differentiated with different icons and names.____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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To provide a bit of context here is the original annoucement regarding the resource-specific favorites capability - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/210353.aspx
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Unless I missed something, the web app and mobile app only allow access to the full favorites menu. If a simplified, uniform experience is desired, having the favorites button on the dynamic toolbar open up the full favorites menu would thus be superior to having it open only the resource-specific favorites menu. This would also be superior for my purposes, as I enjoy using the favorites tool to switch between resources, as opposed to only staying within the resource I have open.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
This would also be superior for my purposes, as I enjoy using the favorites tool to switch between resources
Then use the tool in its own panel rather than as a resource panel sidebar.
Aaron Hamilton said:as opposed to only staying within the resource I have open.
If is it to appear in a resource panel, I want it to relate to that specific resource just as notes are filtered. I understand why at first glance it was confusing. I don't understand why some of you still find it problematic - simply don't use it as you are losing nothing in function or convenience.
Aaron Hamilton said:Perhaps if these tools were separated from one another,
I would see this as a real mess maker that would require dual entry in some cases. It is a single tool with a single dataset to update - it simply allows for filters to be applied as it has for some time. Filters are very common in Logos/Verbum and should not be problematic to users.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I don't understand why some of you still find it problematic
I understand that it may be cleaner to only see the favorites for that specific resource, but there is nothing in the resource-specific favorites menu that cannot also be done in the full favorites menu. The reverse is not true. What makes it problematic is the emphasis the new toolbar places on favorites that was not there before. But my main purpose in having this discussion is to highlight the confusion that may likely arise with many other users given the current setup. Now that I understand how it works, I can certainly cope personally if the favorites menus remain are they are (emphasis on plurality).
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Aaron Hamilton said:
but there is nothing in the resource-specific favorites menu that cannot also be done in the full favorites menu. The reverse is not true.
Right - which is why the full favorites menu does not belong as a sidebar to a resource. The full menu is independent of any resource panels. The advantage of the new system is that for those who had filtered the favorites menu, the relationship is now more obvious and intuitive especially if one used multiple copies of Favorites in the past. The disadvantage is that those who never want Favorites filtered by resource must learn to continue as they always have and ignore the new feature.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This new toolbar requires... a lot more clicks. Not sure I'm a fan of that.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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This is one reason why I emphasize, as I did in a previous post, that it is necessary and useful to have an “Add to Quick Access Toolbar” option to keep the features or tools we use most just a click away. This way the Logos can work for everyone and those of us who love something clean can more easily accept the new Toolbar.Ben said:This new toolbar requires... a lot more clicks. Not sure I'm a fan of that.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Not sure of this has been mentioned yet
In Desktop If I open a resource and click on Favourites in the Resource Toolbar I can add a folder to the favourites. This folder also shows up in the Favourites folder in the Tools feature on the main toolbar. I can drag resources to the new folder in the resource and they also duplicate to the main Favourites view. When I close the resource in which I made the new folder and open it again the folder and contents have disappeared from the resource view but still exist in the Favourites view accessed vie the Tools feature on the main toolbar.
I have been able to duplicate this in a number of resources and I have restarted Logos and restarted my M1 MacBook Pro with the lastest production OS. I am running the latest Logos Beta released this morning Version: 36.0.733
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Ali Pope said:
The new resource toolbar has made it to the desktop app and is now available for beta testing in version 36 Beta 3!
So, try out the new toolbar and let us know what you think in this forum thread. We can’t wait to hear from you!
Not sure of this has been mentioned yet
In Desktop If I open a resource and click on Favourites in the Resource Toolbar I can add a folder to the favourites. This folder also shows up in the Favourites folder in the Tools feature on the main toolbar. I can drag resources to the new folder in the resource and they also duplicate to the main Favourites view. When I close the resource in which I made the new folder and open it again the folder and contents have disappeared from the resource view but still exist in the Favourites view accessed vie the Tools feature on the main toolbar.
I have been able to duplicate this in a number of resources and I have restarted Logos and restarted my M1 MacBook Pro with the lastest production OS. I am running the latest Logos Beta released this morning Version: 36.0.733
👁️ 👁️
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DS said:
1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).
I can reproduce and have created a case for this. Thank you for the recording!
DS said:2. Buttons that expand a sub-menu (like 'Link set', 'History' and 'Step to next / previous') should collapse on second click (when expanded), now they blink back up. If this makes sense.
This is a part of our polish work that will release in coming weeks.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Aaron Hamilton said:
I agree that a change here would be desirable. While the two favorites features have an identical icon and an identical name, they do not open up an identical tool (at least not for me). The resources that I have in my traditional favorites menu do not appear when I select favorites from the new toolbar.
The Favorites sidebar should show the subset of all your Favorites that applies to the book you're in.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
The Favorites sidebar should show the subset of all your Favorites that applies to the book you're in.
I find this extremely useful. It took me a bit to figure that out though. I wonder if it needs something to aid someone new in figuring this out.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
The Favorites sidebar should show the subset of all your Favorites that applies to the book you're in
Thank you, Mark. I think I could grow to really appreciate this sidebar. What has made the process difficult as I have mentioned elsewhere is that I can't figure out how to organize these favorites in the main tool, so every favorite I add in a new resource adds clutter to it. Anytime I try to organize these favorites in the main tool, they disappear from the sidebar. The exception are the quick links. I haven't had any trouble with them.
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Ali Pope said:DS said:
1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).
I can reproduce and have created a case for this. Thank you for the recording!
DS said:2. Buttons that expand a sub-menu (like 'Link set', 'History' and 'Step to next / previous') should collapse on second click (when expanded), now they blink back up. If this makes sense.
This is a part of our polish work that will release in coming weeks.
Great, thanks!
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DS said:DS said:
1. When opening the app on my MacBook Air 13", with the Application Toolbar to the side, the 'Help'-button on a resource doesn't collapse properly (on some of my favorite resources).
I can reproduce and have created a case for this. Thank you for the recording!
After more investigation, it turns out this is actually expected behavior. If you slowly make the panel width narrower, you'll notice that the Info icon does the same thing - each button loses its label one at a time.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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I keep getting graphical glitches on my macbook pro m1. Sometimes just a black box. Sometimes I have to close and reopen the resource.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
I keep getting graphical glitches on my macbook pro m1. Sometimes just a black box. Sometimes I have to close and reopen the resource.
This is a known issue and will be fixed in an upcoming beta release. Thanks, John!
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Ali Pope said:
New Resource Toolbar
Any update on this issues with the Favourites view in the New Resource Toolbar?
"In Desktop If I open a resource and click on Favourites in the Resource Toolbar I can add a folder to the favourites. This folder also shows up in the Favourites folder in the Tools feature on the main toolbar. I can drag resources to the new folder in the resource and they also duplicate to the main Favourites view. When I close the resource in which I made the new folder and open it again the folder and contents have disappeared from the resource view but still exist in the Favourites view accessed vie the Tools feature on the main toolbar.
I have been able to duplicate this in a number of resources and I have restarted Logos and restarted my M1 MacBook Pro with the lastest production OS. I am running the latest Logos Beta released this morning Version: 36.0.733"
👁️ 👁️
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Antony Brennan said:
Any update on this issues with the Favourites view in the New Resource Toolbar?
Updates including bug fixes usually drop on Tuesdays. As V36 went gold (live) this week, next week will not have a beta release. September 11 is the next scheduled beta drop.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Antony Brennan said:
Any update on this issues with the Favourites view in the New Resource Toolbar?
See this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224822/1312184.aspx#1312184
Sorry, inserting links properly isn't working for me right now. But I think the issue with buggy favorites is being addressed.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
See this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224822/1312184.aspx#1312184
Sorry, inserting links properly isn't working for me right now. But I think the issue with buggy favorites is being addressed.
MJ. Smith said:Updates including bug fixes usually drop on Tuesdays. As V36 went gold (live) this week, next week will not have a beta release. September 11 is the next scheduled beta drop.
Thanks to you both
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Where is the Multiple Book Display? I use this feature every day.
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In my view I have something called reformat instead of add parallel text.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
I won’t lie. In-line search for textual studies is so important to me, that I will be happy to forego the new toolbar. I am not sure why this would been seen as an improvement.
For my use (for years) inline search is extremely important and I use it with the double-click action or context menu.
Inline search still works in the beta version with the new Toolbar, but I can't understand why they took away the result count. Knowing the number of hits is essential and it was the first place I looked after the search. In most cases you can't count the results manually. I also liked to generate graphs from the inline results.
Now, after doing an inline search, if I want to know the number of results and generate graphs, I have to redo the search in the full search tool. It's a double job.
Wouldn't it be better simply to keep the way things were? Wouldn't it be less work for the Logos team and less for the users who love the inline tool?
Please reconsider!!!
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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John Brumett said:
In my view I have something called reformat instead of add parallel text.
Is that on the webapp as opposed to desktop
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Webapp
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I agree! This is important!Anderson Abreu said:Knowing the number of hits is essential and it was the first place I looked after the search.
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Will the testing of the toolbar be available on the web?
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John Brumett said:
Will the testing of the toolbar be available on the web?
Yes, it is, but I think only for those who have a subscription.
https://app.logos.com/____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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I just realized this, but in the old version there was a back and forwards button to switch between references. It made navigation easy. Now I'm only seeing the back button. So if I want to quickly jump back to the last verse I can do that, but then there's no easy way to get 'forward' to the verse I was just at. I can only move back in the list.
Please add both forward and backward buttons.
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Morgan said:
Please add both forward and backward buttons.
If I click the back button then a forward button appears. Right-clicking on either one gives a history
Are you seeing the same?
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Graham Criddle said:Morgan said:
Please add both forward and backward buttons.
If I click the back button then a forward button appears. Right-clicking on either one gives a history
Are you seeing the same?
I am now! Thanks Graham.
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Anderson Abreu said:
Inline search still works in the beta version with the new Toolbar, but I can't understand why they took away the result count.
I agree this is important, and Mark said the lack of a hit count is a bug that will be fixed before the new toolbar is released. Hopefully the charts link makes it back too.
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I didn't remember that detail from his comments. I was on vacation, but I was still trying to keep up with the long forum on my cell phone. (Much love for Logos lol) And the forum doesn't have a mobile version (here's a hint)! So I missed it.Jonathan Huber said:I agree this is important, and Mark said the lack of a hit count is a bug that will be fixed before the new toolbar is released.
I also hope that this will work again. It would be a loss not to have it and extra work to have to open the full search tool.Jonathan Huber said:Hopefully the charts link makes it back too.
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"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
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Anderson Abreu said:John Brumett said:
Will the testing of the toolbar be available on the web?
Yes, it is, but I think only for those who have a subscription.The new toolbar on the web app is available to everyone, subscription or not. It was released a few months ago.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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