FEEDBACK WANTED: New Resource Toolbar on Desktop
The new resource toolbar has made it to the desktop app and is now available for beta testing in version 36 Beta 3!
As we all know, the desktop app has a world of functionality inside it. That is, if you know the right places to click. We often hear that our app is confusing for new users, so we took that feedback, (along with the feedback from the web resource toolbar) and focused on improving the discoverability and intuitiveness of the buttons on the toolbar.
Here’s what you can expect from our revamped resource toolbar:
- Simple: We’ve simplified the layout and made the buttons more explanatory, so you can focus on studying the Word instead of getting bogged down by learning all of the icons.
- Clear: Each button is carefully designed to represent its function, making it easier than ever to find the tool you need.
- Quick: Everything you need is just 1 or 2 clicks away, instead of several clicks.
It’s important to note that this toolbar will not release to version 36 stable. It will remain in beta throughout the v37 beta cycle. We are releasing this feature earlier than we usually release new beta features, in order to allot more time for feedback from you. That being said, we’re still working on some polishing. We’d value your feedback on this, but please keep in mind that it’s not fully finished yet.
So, try out the new toolbar and let us know what you think in this forum thread. We can’t wait to hear from you!
Other Important Things to Note:
- This change is not related to the application toolbar. It is the resource toolbar, which is only for book resources.
- This feature requires a license. If you don’t already subscribe, you can get a temporary license for the features marked with an asterisk during the beta period by becoming a follower of this Faithlife group.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
Comments
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I like using it on the web app. Look forward to using it on the desktop app.
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I admit not having used it yet since I don't use the web app and am not on the beta stream, but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.) The menu bar is really under-utilized with Logos.
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In general, yes, it does make features more visually discoverable. I would also like it to make keyboard shortcuts more discoverable as well.
For example, on the home tab (is tab the right term?) hovering over the info button on info shows the keyboard shortcut of ⇧⌘I and hovering on help shows F1. On the view tab, hovering over full screen gives the keyboard shortcut of ⌥⌘R.
However, I did not see any other keyboard shortcuts and some keyboard shortcuts were removed from the three dot menu. In my brief test, the old shortcuts still work, but they are not discoverable. Exception is inline search. The ⇧⌘F no longer opens inline search.
- ⇧⌘C - Show/Hide left sidebar
- ⌘P - Print/Export
- ⌥⌘C - Copy link
- ⌥⌘F - Float panel
- ⇧⌘D - Duplicate tab/panel
Also, there are no longer copy link options (HTML, L4, URL, etc.)
I look forward to seeing how this might help new Logos users.
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Jonathan Huber said:
I admit not having used it yet since I don't use the web app and am not on the beta stream, but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.) The menu bar is really under-utilized with Logos.
Making this a collapsable bar would be nice, like the location bar.
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When testing the parallel books option, the parallel resources window closed and when reopened showed the change. The close/reopen is a bug. it should simply move to the new view.
EDIT: this is working correctly now
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Jonathan Huber said:
but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you talking about the resource menu/tool bar or the application menu/toolbar? If I take you to mean the former, I don't understand because that is what it currently is doing. If I take you to mean the latter, it makes no sense because the options apply to and show for individual resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi
Thanks for this Ali - I have enjoyed using this toolbar on web and pleased to see it arriving on desktop.
I've been comparing it with V35 stable and noted a few things:
1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar
2) I'm not getting any Visual Filters shown for the ESV - and I do have some Visual Filters that apply to this translation (is it possible that some background information is being built and this will appear in time?)
3) I find it strange that Insights and Info are on the Home menu as opposed to the View one (and I know the web app works the same way!)
4) In general, I like the idea of removing things from the panel menu wherever possible - but some things seem to have been lost!
a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)
b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated
c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card
Thoughts / insights on any of the above really appreciated!
Thanks, Graham
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The Help Center function should be up a level - it is needed for all sub-toolbars not just the main one.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark said:
Why not allow the user to decide what he/she wants in the toolbar?
Because it is more costly to create and maintain? Because it creates more user confusion when they can't find what they are looking for? That's not to say that aren't good arguments for it ... merely to say the tradeoffs need to be carefully considered.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I know it is not yet what has been implemented but I would like to see the selection of elements shown in the interlinear pane changed to be the same method that is used for the inline interlinear.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm like a few others, PLEASE include a way to collapse this expanded toolbar. When the new toolbar first opened, my response was "Yikes!" Far too much clutter, especially when one has multiple panels open on the screen, each one duplicating the same toolbar. An option in "Program Setting" to hide these expanded toolbars would be wonderful--the sooner the better.
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Tim Deahl said:
PLEASE include a way to collapse this expanded toolbar
It does collapse into a single line - just click the active option. Are you asking to be able to completely hide the tool bar by sliding it behind the tab?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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You don't have to click on the "here", just click on "New".MJ. Smith said:Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?
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Graham Criddle said:
1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar
I think it is at the bottom of the list in an expandable sublist.
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I think it is under notes, the first button on the left.Chris Elford said:Graham Criddle said:1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar
I think it is at the bottom of the list in an expandable sublist.
👁️ 👁️
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MJ. Smith said:
Am I the only one who clicks new and has the popup disappear before I can click "here"?
I have just been clicking on the button itself. The popup should be changed to read "Click to share your thoughts." No matter how quick I am I cannot click on the underlined here
👁️ 👁️
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Antony Brennan said:
I think it is under notes, the first button on the left.Chris Elford said:Graham Criddle said:1) I can't see where to enable Notes and Highlights (Corresponding) in the new toolbar
I think it is at the bottom of the list in an expandable sublist.
Thanks Antony and Chris - I missed it
@Logos - following up on that
It does show at the bottom as below
but we need to scroll past all the in-version notebooks to get there. Can we have the option to collapse the set of in-version notebooks so it is easier to get to this second set?
And, as far as I can see, even when the corresponding set is enabled, the icon does not show it and it isn't possible to see / select / deselect the list of included notebooks
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Where is the support for reading lists in the copy links function?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I can see some benefits in the design. My concerns:
Some of my more regular tasks required extra clicks and also searching through the menu. I would learn where those are but all those features used to be more accessible. Adding more clicks to perform an action feels frustrating in use.
I'm not sure the location of reading plans makes sense.
Didn't find opening a parallel resource.
Separating formatting and view feels confusing because both change what you are seeing. These also tend to be what I change the most. Showing and hiding discourse features or interlinear features etc. I wonder if interlinear belongs with the formatting really?
Ideally I'd like to be able to prioritise a couple of configurations... I like using left and right arrows to switch between Bibles... it would actually make my study easier to be able to switch between 3 different views of the ESV that way too.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ali Pope said:
- Simple: We’ve simplified the layout and made the buttons more explanatory, so you can focus on studying the Word instead of getting bogged down by learning all of the icons.
- Clear: Each button is carefully designed to represent its function, making it easier than ever to find the tool you need.
- Quick: Everything you need is just 1 or 2 clicks away, instead of several clicks.
Hm. One of the first things I looked for was Print/Export. Didn't find it at first, since it is hidden under Share (now I know and can somehow understand the rationale, but it didn't occur to me to look there - moreover since Share in a normal two-tab layout on my 17" laptop monitor is/was hidden under More... But it seems to work as before (noting that Print/Export was one of the main areas where users when asked by Logos expressed a strong desire to fix longstanding bugs and finalize the functionality)
EDIT: I now found it at a second place, under Tools (strangely in this NIV resource ony the button without text, probably that's why I overlooked it at first and saw it when I looked at this a bit more thoroughly in another book, where Print/Export is visible next to the button):
Ali Pope said:Other Important Things to Note:
- We haven’t removed any existing functionality. Everything you could do in the previous toolbar is still available in this new toolbar.
It seems the former "Copy Location As..." functionality has been lost. Copy Link does the URL-Part of that, copying the resource link, but that's it. L4 links and the less-often used WIKI, RL and HTML-links seem to be removed.
It was confusing to me that there is now a Copy Special that allows the reference link to be copied as link, plain text or search parameter (a functionality still existing in the context menu under reference), but this appears only in bibles, not in other datatype-indexed books like commentaries or e.g. The Book of Concord. If you still are deciding about that: I like seeing this in the main toolbar, but please leave the button visible all times instead of not showing it - and make it available in all indexed resources. But in the interest of saving space, this is not a must-have if you keep it in the context menu.
Have joy in the Lord!
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This is a question because I can't run the beta on a dedicated machine...
Question: How does this change effect the search bar?
Background: In my workflow, I tend to have the search bar always open on Bible tabs. I guess in my use case, I tend to treat it like the reference box as something I always need access with Bibles because I am at times more text focused, than reference.
Is there the option to run it this way always open, or in this new arrangement does it disappear every time I select anything else from the new toolbar? In an ideal world, I'd like to keep it or pin it open.
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NB.Mick said:
It seems the former "Copy Location As..." functionality has been lost. Copy Link does the URL-Part of that, copying the resource link, but that's it. L4 links and the less-often used WIKI, RL and HTML-links seem to be removed.
I asked the question about L4 links here too:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224536/1309721.aspx#1309721
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Surprised to see "Send Hyperlinks Here" in the three dot menu.
One small frustration, clicking on Content and Favorites opens and closes the menu as expected. For any other menu to close you have to click outside of the menu somewhere.E.g. I can't just click "History" twice to open and close it.
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Morgan said:
One small frustration, clicking on Content and Favorites opens and closes the menu as expected. For any other menu to close you have to click outside of the menu somewhere.E.g. I can't just click "History" twice to open and close it.
This will be fixed as part of our polishing work.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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MJ. Smith said:
When testing the parallel books option, the parallel resources window closed and when reopened showed the change. The close/reopen is a bug. it should simply move to the new view.
I'm unable to reproduce this. The Parallel Books menu updates as soon as I change to a different book.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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John Goodman said:
Some of my more regular tasks required extra clicks and also searching through the menu. I would learn where those are but all those features used to be more accessible. Adding more clicks to perform an action feels frustrating in use.
Agreed - I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings and if not I'd like to make that suggestion - but have heard nothing back (this was when the Web app version was released and that it would be coming to Desktop was mentioned.)
I'm all for the goal of making things supposedly "easier" for the new users, but adding steps or causing long time users to relearn simple usage is counter productive IMHO.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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It's an interesting change. What I find to be a problem is that the Tab key (in a Bible pane) no longer goes to the Navigation Box to allow a quick jump to another reference. It may not be an issue for some, but it runs headlong into my workflow every few minutes. The Help Center says that Shift-CMD-C will open the Navigation Menu, but also the Contents Menu. It's the Contents Menu that opens, by the way, which is fairly useless to me (unless I can't remember whether Amos comes before or after Hosea).
So far this is an unwelcome change for me. Everyone's usage differs, but I use the Resource Panel fairly rarely and certainly don't need its options within constant reach and taking up screen space.
The inability to reach the Navigation Box with a keystroke is going to slow down my sermon prep this week.
Can we get the keyboard shortcut (preferably Tab) back for the Navigation Box, and soon? Thanks.
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Don't neglect the implementation of 'Command+G' (probably Ctrl+G Win) to focus and select the resource reference box.
It's probably a pending housekeeping item, but I'll remind anyway.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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The tab key and CMD-G/CTRL-G shortcut will be a part of the polish work we do in the coming weeks.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Frank Sauer said:
I had submitted the question of whether there would be an option to keep the traditional toolbar via Settings
We noted your suggestion back in the web app thread and appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, we won't be able to implement this in the foreseeable future given the massive amount of work/time it would take to build and maintain.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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As a teacher who uses Logos with students, I think this will make teaching Logos much easier. Aesthetically, I prefer the old model, but this is a clear leap forward in functionality.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Are there plans to include search fields for inline search? I was hoping to search the gloss field of HALOT from the new toolbar but it only has the sentence/paragraph/article options.
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Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...? This is also functionality that is very useful when you are working in a text centric way...
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Gregory Lawhorn said:
What I find to be a problem is that the Tab key (in a Bible pane) no longer goes to the Navigation Box to allow a quick jump to another reference. It may not be an issue for some, but it runs headlong into my workflow every few minutes.
I agree this is a major frustration!
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I am increasingly trying to use keyboard actions as opposed to taking my hands off to use a mouse. +1 to tabbing. Would love for it to drop to the search box when it is open as well.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
Also, further to my above post, is there a way in this new toolbar to send search results to word lists, the search panel, etc...?
Word Lists, Visual Filters and Bibliographies will be added to the new Send to menu in the Share tab as part of our polishing work in the coming weeks.
When you create a search result in inline search, go to the Share tab, click the Send to menu and you'll see the option to send to the search panel.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Ali Pope said:
We have removed the HTML, L4, RL, and WIKI copy functionality due to the low amount of usage they were getting. Aside from this, we haven't removed any other functionality. If you see something missing, please let us know.
I just commented on another thread. If after many years this is the end of L4 linking, this 'new' feature has just broke a tonne of links in my research with no notice. I think there are others who have used this as well. Can this be reconsidered?
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Donovan R. Palmer said:Ali Pope said:
We have removed the HTML, L4, RL, and WIKI copy functionality due to the low amount of usage they were getting. Aside from this, we haven't removed any other functionality. If you see something missing, please let us know.
I just commented on another thread. If after many years this is the end of L4 linking, this 'new' feature has just broke a tonne of links in my research with no notice. I think there are others who have used this as well. Can this be reconsidered?
To be clear, existing L4 links will work just fine. We have no plans or intention to break existing L4 links.
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Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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It seems that Jonathan is referring to the macOS Menu Bar, which appears at the very top of (just about) all apps on the Mac. It lokks like this:
And yes, Jonathan, it is a capital idea. If the macOS application standards allow an application-specific menu item, such as 'Resource', it could display all the allowable choices for the acrtive panel. For many users, it might be faster. Moreover, macOS alows user-created keyboard shortcuts (although I have not tried any).
But the greater benefit of this would be for vision-impaired Logos users pn macOS. One of the macOS accessibility features is 'Speak item under pounter', would help here to make using Logos for the vission-impaired marginally less kludgy, since Logos is not at all screenn-reader friendly.
This macOS feature always works with an app's macOS Menu Bar; it is very hit-and-miss (more misses) in the actual Logos interface.
I have followed, over the years, the suggestions of Logos User Sarah Blake LaRose and her pleas for greater Logos compliance with screen-reader technologies in the 'Accessibility' subforum. As far as I know, she has not had a response fro Logos here on the forums.
MJ. Smith said:
rJonathan Huber said:but I wonder whether it could be a more efficient use of space to put any of this up into the menu bar (I'm on a Mac.)
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you talking about the resource menu/tool bar or the application menu/toolbar? If I take you to mean the former, I don't understand because that is what it currently is doing. If I take you to mean the latter, it makes no sense because the options apply to and show for individual resources.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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Ali Pope said:Graham Criddle said:
This seems quite a step backward as it was supported in the previous model for inline search
The intent/hope is that the Search panel would be used instead.
Is there a reason to remove the functionality? Inline searching has significant advantages over switching to the search panel (the text I want is already there, there are more options for interacting with the text), and it's especially appealing to those of us moving over from Accordance. I would do all of my text searches there. The more you can *add* functionality to inline searching rather than removing it, the better.
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Robert M. Warren said:
It seems that Jonathan is referring to the macOS Menu Bar
Yes, I meant the mac OS menu bar. I don't see why resource-specific actions can't be up there; surely most users interacting with a specific resource would expect selected actions to apply to that resource; the active resource is even marked in the UI. Maybe it doesn't make sense to move everything up to the Menu Bar, but it's definitely under-utilized.
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Graham Criddle said:
2) I'm not getting any Visual Filters shown for the ESV - and I do have some Visual Filters that apply to this translation (is it possible that some background information is being built and this will appear in time?)
I'm unable to reproduce this. The VF documents are showing up as expected for me. I'll have our QA team take a look.
Graham Criddle said:a) Show Inline Search (Ctrl/Cmd-F)
This is a part of the polishing work we'll be doing in the coming weeks.
Graham Criddle said:b) Some of the panel copy options - I can see Copy as URL but not HTML, L4, WIKI, RL (I know this has been mentioned in previous feedback in this thread). I remember a discussion about some of these going, are they being deprecated
Ah, yes! This slipped my mind. Apologies! We did remove HTML, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them. L4 was removed because of other plans we tentatively have for future development. Even though they are removed, any existing L4 links will still continue to work. That being said, we hear you all on the L4 links and are having discussions around this.
Graham Criddle said:c) Help features - Help about this feature, discuss this feature, show help card
For Help about this feature if you click the Help button, it will open the correct help article in the Help Center.
Discuss this feature is planned to come later as a part of the Help Center feature.
And, the Show help card feature, along with the copy links, was intentionally left out since it gets such a low amount of usage. Apologies for missing that piece in my OP.
Ali Pope | Logos Desktop and Mobile Program Manager
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Ali Pope said:
We did remove HTML, L4, WIKI, RL from the new toolbar. We noticed that these were rarely used, so we removed them.
I use them all the time. I hope you are not going to discontinue/disable or remove them. They are very helpful to me, and I know there are other users who link to Logos through them.
Below is a forum post regarding how users can use the L4 links via the Alfred App. Logos is somewhat keyboard shortcut poor. The L4 link provides a workaround for that deficiency. These links speed up my workflow immensely.
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/186597/1120734.aspx#1120734
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Please respect the selected / unselected menu state of the resource when closed.
Currently, if I click the active option to remove the sub-menu, then close the resource, it is active again when the resource is reopened.
As this new feature uses more real estate, which I prefer more than an occasionally utilised menu, I will have to make quite a few extra clicks each time a layout is opened to close all the sub-menus.
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