For the First Time I Regret Building a Library in Logos
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Well, they already search books you don't have and point you to the store page.
Legacy is another word for delayed obsolescence. It's like a "Traditional" service, they are just shifting their target market.
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The new Logosian will want videos for learning, and then be presented with subscribe-only features examples. It won't be pretty.
Agreed. I think they are betting on the car-lease mentality...meaning a significant number of people can't do math and will lease a car despite the terrible long-term investment realities for most situations. This will indeed increase revenue for the company, though.
For those that are young enough to care nothing about long-term investment, I think the subscription model will make sense.
Well, they already search books you don't have and point you to the store page.
Legacy is another word for delayed obsolescence. It's like a "Traditional" service, they are just shifting their target market.
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Have you tried using the AI search capabilities on your books?
I have not knowingly used the AI features. I am just not interested.
I have always upgraded my Logos program because of the excellent book sales included in the upgrades, not for features. I am happy with the features my current Logos program offers. I have at times waited over a year or so before upgrading.
I am just not interested in renting any books. But I am sure that many will be.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
With Bible software, I just want a good program whose features I can easily learn & stick with that. Changes should be simply add ons, so one can always do the things one originally could with the program. I think that the problem is that most software companies want to continue to exist, & not for the buyers to have a complete system which just keeps working. So they are every "upgrading" & trying to force you to go along. I participated in the Logos fine Community Pricing feature going back to 2014, making bids on many, many ebooks, particularly Loeb Classics, wanting to assemble access to all Greek literature for lexicographical studies. But eventually I found that eBooks I bought would not download to my Logos system, as Logos itself had "upgraded" & these modules which had been offered since 2014 (or earlier) once they were fulfllled would not download to one's Logos program. ONe had to upgrade Logos to get them, though one had bought them. But since Logos "upgraded," now the upgrade would not download to my computer without my buying a newer computer! Operating Systems upgrade & the upgrades won't work on computers past some date. So Logos was forcing me to upgrade Logos, upgrade my Mac OS, & buy a newer computer. Of course Apple is in on it: You buy a computer, but eventually you can't use it on the internet any more or YouTube won't work with it. I look forward to a day when I can get all my Community Priced Loeb classics, have them in a workable computer with a workable Logos edition, & then stop there with Logos & just work offline with my existing computer until the Rapture!
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I look forward to a day when I can get all my Community Priced Loeb classics, have them in a workable computer with a workable Logos edition, & then stop there with Logos & just work offline with my existing computer until the Rapture!
Then you came the right place, because I have great news, you can do that today. I am assuming your Loeb classics are actually produced and you have purchased them.
The newest Logos works great, even on a fairly old machine. I have a 14-year-old Asus ROG that hums along quite well with the latest Logos.
With Bible software, I just want a good program whose features I can easily learn & stick with that.
The latest Logos truly is the best. Unless you are an ancient Libby fan--there are still a few (at least one--I won't say who) holdouts for that being best, but otherwise, go for the newest and best. Sure, it gradually improves over time. I complain about that (sadly) but shouldn't. It really is getting better. As in a LOT better. Try it and let us know what you think,
ONe had to upgrade Logos to get them, though one had bought them.
I am pretty sure that all community priced product licenses will work on any reasonably new version of Logos. If not, give Logos Customer service a call. I just called them a couple days ago and some really friendly guy, Jack, gave me great assistance. He fixed my problem. I bet he can fix yours.
Operating Systems upgrade & the upgrades won't work on computers past some date.
Yeah...that is a good thing though. Security risk these days is awful. Using an outdated, unsafe computer not only puts you at risk, but puts everyone else at higher risk too--if you spread something bad. At some point, just get a new computer. I think $500 could get you something that will run Logos acceptably for a few years, but maybe spend a little more. Wish I could just give you one of mine, but that isn't practical.
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Unless you are an ancient Libby fan--there are still a few (at least one--I won't say who) holdouts for that being best, but otherwise, go for the newest and best.
I'm glad to hear there's more than me! Reading Bradley's comment this AM about 2 versions of Logos (stuck-in-mud-version, and subscription version), Libby has far fewer bugs than the current Logos. (I might point out your ASUS would probably burn up, Libby is so fast ... still.)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I remember writing programs whereby we had to be very careful as to how much memory resources we used. Then I remember the first 10 MEG disk my department got. We thought we had hit the mother load and I thought how in the world would anyone write programs to use all that storage. Computers had 8 bit and 16 bit registers then.
Now I I have a 6 GIG SSD... computers have 256 and bigger bit registers and I'm thinking the same thing.
Programs have an unrealistic way of outgrowing computers capabilities. [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Programs have an unrealistic way of outgrowing computers capabilities.
Yesterday, I went hiking with my new shiny Apple watch and no iPhone. I had it running an exercise app pulling GPS and calc'ing altitude, etc. Plus running Audible to my AirPods (the bluetooth not even sneezing). Plus showing me new emails and texts coming in. I was amazed. And the battery wasn't even budging.
What's next?!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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(I might point out your ASUS would probably burn up, Libby is so fast ... still.)
Quick as a cat can wink its eye.
What's next?!
Subscriptions. Plural.
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To answer your question Yes. Run the search a collection of books of theological persuasion x and get a summary based on that persuasion, run a search on books you trust to get a summary based on the books you trust. When i read books I trust I make my own interpretive ‘summary’ of what they are saying, and you would do the same, whether we realize it or not. The summary in Logos provides links to its sources so you can go back and check for yourself. The summary is not a condensed book,
There is no hidden agenda in the summary, no one behind the curtain trying to change or confuse your beliefs, nothing to be feared at all, you are in control of the search process, just as you always have been with Logos, You can take or leave the summary, you can turn it off if you want.
Mike let me finish with saying I’m not trying to get you to change your mind about subscribing. That’s your personal choice which I respect. But having not seemingly used the Ai search for yourself, correct me if I am wrong, and Im just trying to clarify for youThe summary is not a condensed book, it tells you exactly where it came from in your Logos Library, anyone else reading this that it’s something a bit different to that thought. You have control over which books you are searching, know exactly where the summary comes from and can even turn it off if you don’t want to use it. It’s simply a tool to help you dig into more books in a shorter time period than you could do so on your own.
And I am the just opposite of you.
Any summary will be interpretive. I don't like condensed books. Summaries have no appeal to me. Is there going to be an Arminian AI, a Calvinist AI, a Pentecostal AI?
One of the reasons that I went to seminary was so that I would know which resources to trust.
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There is no hidden agenda in the summary, no one behind the curtain trying to change or confuse your beliefs,
I'm not Mike, of course. Though I agree with his points.
But I disagree on 'hidden agendas' ... they're inherent for each author. Normally, we say 'perspective' or 'traditions' or similar ... natural to each author. And through long study, one detects. For me, Hegesippus, today. An AI summary might detect his perspective (or repeat someone's opinion) ... normally they won't. More often they're tuned to maximize user usage (similar to search engines).
A century ago, books came with fronting summaries, often in the form of outlines. We're back.
Personally, I would have wished FL would have spent more time on search result presentation. This AM I was looking at the above Hegesippus. 'All' had a bunch of stuff ... I couldn't detect what the sort was ... some 'cards' every now and then. Frequency wasn't a criteria. I switched to 'Book' and things didn't improve a lot.
But we've hit the end of the line and the final stop.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Libby has far fewer bugs than the current Logos.
I wasn't a Libby fan but I am a misleading statistics exposure fan. Should this be a rate measurement not a raw number measurement? [8-|] I'm quite sure your statement is accurate, less so that it is meaningful ...[:#]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm quite sure your statement is accurate, less so that it is meaningful ...
Well, my statement was 'honestly' misleading. I can't remember ANY bugs in Libby. But in the interest of understating, I granted Libby some bugs 'somewhere'.
Your comment, however, should not have come from your tapping fingers (smiling). You, of all people (your earlier experiences), should know that bugs are in the eye of the beholder (not amenable to 'rate measurement'). For developers, it's a matter of risk (customers, internal or external) vs cost (literal or diversionary), For customers, it's encounters ... frustrations, error-impacts, and spending patterns.
Mark said (but didn't promise) one of the objectives this year would be to reduce the old errors visa viz the stuck-in-the-mud version (and the subscription version as well). I just might have my doubts, since they're so easy to find.
Added: I just noticed TOC entries now have popups working, when the TOC panel is narrow. The missing TOC positioning at resource opening remains (used to work). And the right-click panel, left-entries, when lengthy still have missing popups (with the selection text removed in the right top column, after its advantage was mentioned). One wonders exactly what they do with their time each day. Bugs come, go, and then come back.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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You, of all people (your earlier experiences), should know that bugs are in the eye of the beholder (not amenable to 'rate measurement'). For developers, it's a matter of risk (customers, internal or external) vs cost (literal or diversionary), For customers, it's encounters ... frustrations, error-impacts, and spending patterns.
[Y] [:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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There is no hidden agenda in the summary, no one behind the curtain trying to change or confuse your beliefs,
I'm not Mike, of course. Though I agree with his points.
But I disagree on 'hidden agendas' ... they're inherent for each author. Normally, we say 'perspective' or 'traditions' or similar ... natural to each author. And through long study, one detects. For me, Hegesippus, today. An AI su
Denise you are missing the point by a long shot, in fact you have landed in the sand bunker and not on the green, let alone scoring a hole in one.
You are responding based on your agenda, which serves to spread the confusion about AI rather than help user understand how to get the best out of it. which is what I was attempting to get people to think about. Don't run an 'All Search' but run an 'AI' search on a collection of books you trust, as Mike put it.
Is it perfect yet? No, nobody has said that not even Faithlife. AI search summaries are not meant to replace people thinking for themselves, they provide links back to the source of the summary so the user can read it in context and make their own interpretive decision as to whether the summary make sense and is valuable or not. But I have not read a search summary that is not based on what is written in the book and on only one occasion did I find it get the context a little bit wrong - but I did my due diligence and checked the source and the context. Something any user of AI should be doing. It is a tool and too often a bad worker will blame the tool when the issues is they have not understood how to use the tool or used it incorrectly, in a way it was not intended to be used.I hope to they spend more time in the future on search result presentation and a whole lot more. You already know what an 'All' search will present, you are intelligent enough to sift through the various cards and results from books you don't own. In fact, the ALL search takes us back to a feature of Libby that users decried was a complete mis-hit when it was removed with the end of Logos Series X and the introduction of the current Logos line of Logos Software, maybe we should call it Logos Gen Z. Libby allowed us to download files for books we didn't have a license for and search those books. All search allows this one again allows us to get search results from books we don't own - and you don't have to download the files, Some will cry it's a bogey shot, just FL just advertising but it is meant as an aid to the person doing genuine in-depth research on topic to see what other resources are out there that might present a view that backs up their argument or a view they want to critique or simply want to present as a contrast on the range of views of a topic.
Denise please continue to provide relevant valid criticism back-ed up by actual examples with screen shots preferably when it comes to AI searches because you have valuable insights to offer but don't offer rhetoric that anybody can come up with who has an agenda that is simply to bag it by painting a negative picture, a picture that feeds fear based on misunderstanding of what the Logos AI tools are and how they should be used correctly.
I was highly skeptical that AI could offer any value to Logos Bible Software when people first started talking about the topic and didn't want to see introduced. I admit I was wrong and now see it as a positive step that can only get better as it has time to mature and helpful feedback is provide to FL on how to improve it.
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This AM I was looking at the above Hegesippus. 'All' had a bunch of stuff ... I couldn't detect what the sort was ... some 'cards' every now and then. Frequency wasn't a criteria.
If you were a beta tester you would know many people fought for some order in the all search results. Logos deliberately left it random.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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showing me new emails and texts coming in
As long as one doesn't hike and read at the same time. Could be enervating!!!
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If you were a beta tester you would know many people fought for some order in the all search results. Logos deliberately left it random.
One big reason I'm not. But I do appreciate you, and Dave and Graham's gumption for punishment.
I really don't understand their design philosophy. They really like 'pretty'. But not ease of learning. Not efficiency/quickness. I assume somewhere between lazy quiet afternoons in Bellingham, and the image of a pastor slowly reaching for his (or her) mouse to select an unremembered menu, the design goes forward.
After the 'All' results, I closed the tab. I assume it'll be frozen in time for us stuck-in-the-mud users.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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As long as one doesn't hike and read at the same time. Could be enervating!!!
Actually, that's why I got the watch. During the pandemic I thought I'd be tremendously smart and go hiking. Open air, no putting others at risk, and so on. Then, I twisted my ankle. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Other hikers luckily showed up ... called emergency services for me ... and then I ended doing the opposite of my goal ... the gracious fire dept folks picked me up, carried me out, and dumped me at my home (at my request ... no hospital!!).
So now, a phone on my wrist at all times. Even home alone. Woof, woof.
Added: At the Apple store, a younger lady helped me set my watch up. She asked why I got it. I told her, the phone. Her expression showed her youth. FL has a similar problem ... communicating thru videos that are not easy to understand.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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