What Happens When L4 is Released?
Comments
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JoanKorte said:
Yes, exactly. That was going to be my next step with my husband-show him version 3 and not because I am pushing version three but because I am trying to isolate just what it is the new user needs to know in order from him/her to have a feeling of both challenge and success when they first use the program. As experienced users, we already are sold on Logos Bible software because we see results and have those moments of "serendipitous discovery".Robert Pavich said:Ok....test at lunch time here at work.
I have a friend who is a bit of a newbie to bible study. He's smart; has a degree in mechanical engineering, is pretty software savvy also.
He knows i have bible study software and all he does is read and look at a commentary once in a while.
I sat him down in front of v4's home page and just said: "now what do you think you should do?"
And what Ted said about the home page, was what sold me on Logos software. It is a winning, engaging display and both organizes and summarizes what is now at the fingertips of the user. A whole new world opens up. And if you love to study the Bible, how can you not love Logos Bible software?
Hi Joan,
Your observation is like mine and i have written about this somewhere in this forum. I am glad someone other than i is making this observation. So take heart, you are not alone in your observation.
Kind Regards,
Ted.P.S. Please Logos a customised V3 home page on V4.Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Thanks, Ted!
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In Logos' defense, when I got the version 3 upgrade, it included a CD of training videos, and the Beta already has links to training videos on the help menu. They are for version 3 still, but that is an obvious enough thing that they will fix when the time is right. Also, the recent betas have had significant improvement in the basic reports, which makes it easier for new users.
That said, the results you get can be, well, unexpected if you don't have the favorite book settings set right. The release version needs to come out of the box with results that make sense. This either means that Logos has a sense of picking defaults other than Alpha order, or there is a setup script that walks the new user though setting these favorites. The present system where we have to make sure we have five of each type of book is not a realist option for the release.
Back in "Logos 4 Philosophy" Bob pointed out that there are only a limited number of peope who are tech savy enough to really be interested in the under the hood stuff that we all are used to handling in Libronix, and so that is why it takes care of all that stuff for us. Admittedly, I come from a Main-line background, but in my experience there is also a very limited number of people who are used to anywhere the detail of bible study Logos offers, since they already know what the bible says...
By speading up whole library searches with "best" results coming first, Logos 4 is a step forward, but while I LIKE having all the reports open when I type in a reference, it does take a lot of screen space and is not obvious what exactly all those things are.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Robert Pavich said:
"What in the heck am I looking at?"
I thought the same thing when I saw your screen. I don't see anything like that when I open from the home page. The Bible that I have open, is the last one I had open before switching to the home page, or that was open when I closed L4. Apparently you had the LGNTI open. That interlinear, with all the lines open, confuses and intimidates me, and I've been working with interlinears in Logos since version 2.x.
This is an unfair comparison. Try closing all Bibles but an English Bible, then open from the home page and see if your friend finds it a little more accessible.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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JoanKorte said:
Quite frankly, I am coming to the conclusion that the reason the majority of beta testers do not find v. 4 difficult to use is because they truly have brilliant minds. And I am not in that group; v. 4 is difficult to use for me and it is not because I have used v. 3. It is because I do not have a lot of time to do things by trial and error and learn from my errors. I would prefer to read something on "why prioritize and how to" and something on "how resources are organized, e.g. subsets to search on". And when I first get the software, not wait months until videos are posted or have to pay a lot of money for training.
I wonder how many other people are out there who have never participated in the forums/newsgroups that have purchased a package from Logos and never made another purchase of resources because they found the program difficult to use and hard to learn. I am just determined and stubborn enough to have hung around because I do love the software.
Joan, I am far from the sharpest tool in the shed around here either, there are many more learned and seminary trained people around here than myself. I would say I feel very comfortable working with computer applications in general and don't have a lot of difficulty working out new ones but I have not all been comfortable with working with L4. For me its not so much the information that is presented but the way to go about things in order to get things done. That said I can see the majority of people in my bible study group would not at all be excited by L4 they would not have a clue as to where to start with all the information that got thrown up at them after entering a passage in the home page box. L3 offfered I think a much better usser controlled entry into the program allowing the user to dermine whether they wanted their bible study to start with the works or just a simple bible and commentary or even just a bible to read. L4 you presented with a whole lot of information thrown up at you in what was not apparent to me was suppossed to be mimicking a newspaper and then when you get over that and work out you are suppossed to enter a passage in the box it gives you bible study on steriods...and thats great I like that and many of us beta testers like that..but someone new to bible study software who is unsure of the benefits of using such an application...I am not sure it is really going to make the right first up impression upon them. i.e. the average person in my bible study group they will consider opening up their favourite commentary alongside their bible a much easier method...now someone who is a more of an academic type, who has a defininte reason to use bible study software, or the person like you or me who really wants to take their bible study a little further and explore wider topics, then they might be willing to stick it out a bit longer if they have a real desire to learn how to make use of such software. The L4 bible study on steriods with the works or nothing at all approach I think is not going to catch the needed entry points into bible software for all potential new users.
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Robert Pavich said:
Ok....test at lunch time here at work.
I have a friend who is a bit of a newbie to bible study. He's smart; has a degree in mechanical engineering, is pretty software savvy also.
He knows i have bible study software and all he does is read and look at a commentary once in a while.
I sat him down in front of v4's home page and just said: "now what do you think you should do?"
He said.."Well it says type a passage here so I will"
When he typed the passage, this is what he got...it was overwhelming. His words...not mine:
"What in the heck am I looking at?"
then I launched v3 and asked him what he thought. He said that the interface is more what he would be comfortable with; Passage guide, Bible and commentary. When he clicked bible and commentary and that came up he said "yes! that's what I'd expect to happen!"
This is the perfect example of the difference between L3 and L4 entry points into the use of bible software study...L4 is on steriods you get all or nothing..L3 you get a choice....I am not sure the average person in my bible study group would care for the exegetical guide or what it was presenting them or the informaiton window for that matter....I do I apprecaite them because I am not a new user of this sort of application...but someone who is uncertain if this sort of thing is really for them....it my be a case of Hi Ho Silver, away and never to use again....because its to much to quickly...which is a shame because the will be missing out on a really useful piece of software that can actually be softened up and then later when you are ready open the floodgates of information. To me L4 at the moment reminds me of neverous kid trying to make a good first up impression, maybe on the girl he likes, but in doing so just blurts it all out to quickly and the girl gets the wrong impression.
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Richard DeRuiter said:
This is an unfair comparison. Try closing all Bibles but an English Bible, then open from the home page and see if your friend finds it a little more accessible.
I did exactly that. I had an english bible open. He came into my office. I closed all down but the home page and asked him to tell me what he thought...after he typed in the verse....that's what he saw....LOTSA STUFF!
For the record; I just did it 2 minutes ago with another "non bible software using" christian and his reaction was the same..."Why don't I just get a bible and a commentary...what's all this other stuff?"
and part of the reason that I did this was to see if he'd even know what to do on the home page....it took about 2 minutes before he realized that he was supposed to type in a passage...and all that other stuff he didn't expect...he expected to read the passage #1 and also have a commentary there along side him to help.
I ALSO ASKED if he thought that after he got comfortable that he'd be fine with "taking the training wheels off" and he said "probably yes"
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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These stories are exactly why Logos needs to have a "Video" home page for the first time users install. On the first time starting up, the user can play a video that shows the basics of what is the home page, where do I open a bible, and basic getting started info. After the first time, the video helps MUST be built into logos help. After all this beta testing, there are still features I am not sure how to use and all the text help is not helping. I need to see it working to understand it. I predict that without good help videos people will not respond well to v4 release. Which would be a shame, because I think it is a wonderful program that improves on v3.0
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I ran the same test on my wife, who uses my Logos v3 infrequently. She sat down in front of V4 and I asked her to start her studies for the day. She guessed how to start (by typing a verse in), and it didn't do what she expected, but within a few minutes she had her study bible open and her bible where she wanted it. She was very confused by the right-click menu but caught on with some teaching. When I asked her if training videos would help..."probably, if I'd watch them, but I don't like to have to take a class to learn how to work it."
The first page made no sense to her at all. Without prompting, she wondered why the homepage wasn't used to help her get started with using the software. This was my initial impression as well...I continue to view the homepage as more of an interesting than a helpful feature.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Joe Miller said:
These stories are exactly why Logos needs to have a "Video" home page for the first time users install.
I second Joe! A video home page for first-time install would go so far in helping new users.
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Bob Pritchett said:
but we will give advance notice here on the forums so that you can tell me it is too soon, and then I can explain why we need to release it anyway and promise that we'll add those important missing features ASAP, and then, I hope!, you'll all be ready on release day to twitter, blog, and generally say nice things to encourage a massive number of upgrades and new purchases, thereby funding our ongoing development and the near-term release of the things that should have made it into the first release but didn't.
Are you with me? :-)
Of course I'm with you Bob, but can we please have more than a two day notice. :-)
Since I'm still waiting on artwork and workflow in some areas to finalize I'm not doing my screenshots and walkthroughs yet.
I'm certainly hoping to spend a few days writing up a massive review and walkthrough complete (I hope) with a few video's and demonstrations. But I will need time to actually begin and finish.
Of course in the interest of scandal and sheer web traffic I'd love to post the whole thing about 24 hours before you announce it. [;)]
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
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Thomas Black said:and sheer web traffic I'd love to post the whole thing about 24 hours before you announce it.
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