Logos/Verbum 10 FFS did not include 12 reverse interlinears by an oversight?

Vlad

I own the Logos 10 Full Feature Upgrade, and also Verbum 10 Full Feature Upgrade (referred to as FFS below).

I did a check and found that the following 12 reverse interlinears were not included into the FFS, probably by an oversight, and I ask Logos Staff to review and confirm if this is so:

RVI:NRSVAPOC - New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear
RVI:NRSVAPOCALT - New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear (Alternate Texts)
RVI:AV1873APOC - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Apocrypha, Authorized English Version (1873)
RVI:AV1873APOCVAR - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Apocrypha Variants, Authorized English Version (1873)
RVI:KJVAPOCGRK - KJV Apocrypha English-Greek Reverse Interlinear
RVI:KJVAPOCVARGRK - KJV Apocrypha Variants English-Greek Reverse Interlinear
RVI:NCPBNT - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament: New Cambridge Paragraph Bible
RVI:NCPBOT - The English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Old Testament: New Cambridge Paragraph Bible
RVI:NCPBAPOC - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Apocrypha: New Cambridge Paragraph Bible
RVI:NCPBAPOCVAR - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Apocrypha (Variant Texts): New Cambridge Paragraph Bible
RVI:NIV2011ANGNT - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear NT New International Version (Anglicised Edtion, 2011)
RVI:NIV2011ANGOT - The English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear OT New International Version (Anglicised Edtion, 2011)

Here is why I believe that it was an oversight:

1. The FFS product page said that it "includes every dataset and tool for biblical and theological research and study we have available":

As far as I understand, the philosophy of this was that the FFS contained the licenses to the datasets and tools (including reverse interlinears) which existed at the time when this product was released, and if I later purchase some extra bibles, I would automatically be able to use the reverse interlinears which correspond to them.

I received more than 100 reverse interlinears with the purchase of the FFS. Many/most of the reverse interlinears in the FFS came even without the corresponding bible licenses.
For example, here is a screenshot from the Verbum 10 FFS product page which tells that it included 120 interlinears:

2. I own the resource "The New Revised Standard Version" (LLS:1.0.50), and I received the following reverse interlinears for this bible with the purchase of the FFS:
RVI:NRSVNT - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear New Testament New Revised Standard Version
RVI:NRSVOT - The English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear Old Testament New Revised Standard Version
But I did not receive the other two interlinears for the same bible (for the apocryphal books):
RVI:NRSVAPOC - New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear
RVI:NRSVAPOCALT - New Revised Standard Version Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear (Alternate Texts)

3. I received the following interlinears with the purchase of FFS (even without the license for The Cambridge Paragraph Bible itself):
RVI:AV1873NT - English-Greek Reverse Interlinear The Cambridge Paragraph Bible of the Authorized English Version: New Testament
RVI:AV1873OT - English-Hebrew Reverse Interlinear The Cambridge Paragraph Bible of the Authorized English Version: Old Testament
But I did not receive the other two interlinears for the same bible (for the apocryphal books):
RVI:AV1873APOC - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Apocrypha, Authorized English Version (1873)
RVI:AV1873APOCVAR - The English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Apocrypha Variants, Authorized English Version (1873)

4. I own the resource
LLS:1.0.4 - The King James Version Apocrypha
but I did not receive the licenses for its interlinears:
RVI:KJVAPOCGRK - KJV Apocrypha English-Greek Reverse Interlinear
RVI:KJVAPOCVARGRK - KJV Apocrypha Variants English-Greek Reverse Interlinear

The remaining 6 reverse interlinears listed above should also have been included for the same reason as the other 100+ reverse interlinears which were present in the FFS.

Could the Logos staff please confirm that the FFS should have included the above 12 reverse interlinears, and they were not included only by an oversight?

DMB

I tried a few of those. The old complaint, you can't tell what you own (check licenses??).

But some I have from somewhere. Some, the resource shows the RI button but clicking it says no-can-do and can't find on the web store. Some, clicking it, says there is an RI but not for the Bible books in the resource (Gen, Exo, etc!). I 'own' both Logos and Verbum Full Features.

I'm 'honestly' not surprised. I've not understood the company's reluctance to show what a customer owns. And how they got it (when would be good too).

Vlad

I've checked the product pages for the bibles with the discussed 12 reverse interlinears:

https://www.logos.com/product/154152/new-revised-standard-version-with-reverse-interlinear
most likely contains all 4 reverse interlinear resources, including RVI:NRSVAPOC, RVI:NRSVAPOCALT

https://www.logos.com/product/154113/the-cambridge-paragraph-bible-of-the-authorized-english-version-with-reverse-interlinear
contains only 2 of 4 reverse interlinears, i.e. RVI:AV1873APOC and RVI:AV1873APOCVAR are not included in this Bible "with reverse interlinear"

https://www.logos.com/product/236/the-king-james-version-apocrypha
does not contain reverse interlinears, i.e. RVI:KJVAPOCGRK and RVI:KJVAPOCVARGRK could not be purchased

https://www.logos.com/product/24557/the-new-cambridge-paragraph-bible-with-the-apocrypha-rev-ed
does not contain reverse interlinears, i.e. RVI:NCPBNT, RVI:NCPBOT, RVI:NCPBAPOC, RVI:NCPBAPOCVAR could not be purchased

https://www.logos.com/product/33548/the-holy-bible-new-international-version-anglicised-nivuk
does not contain reverse interlinears, i.e. RVI:NIV2011ANGNT and RVI:NIV2011ANGOT could not be purchased

I expected to receive all these reverse interlinears with the purchase of the FFS, so that if I buy these bibles (and I do own some of them), I will be able to use them with the interlinears. But even if I would buy all these bibles, I will not receive the reverse interlinears for them, despite owning the Logos 10 FFS.

DMB

If I were you, I'd resurrect your thread whenever staff returns to FL (they're on a Safari to somewhere). I think some sort of answer is in order, especially with their L10 > subscription demands.

Jason Stone (Logos)

Thank you for asking, and for pinging me separately @NB.Mick. I've escalated this internally to see if I can get more context here.

Vlad

Jason and NB.Mick, thank you for looking into this.

I had some communication with the customer support about this topic via email, but their answers, unfortunately, were not to the point, and sometimes far-fetched.

For example, one of the replies from customer support was that "As the interlinear are books, this will depend on the contract with the publisher. If the publisher does not want their interlinears on a package, we can't add them."

First of all, the reverse interlinears are not books: they are supplemental dataset resources which could not be opened by themselves, and could only be used if the person owns the corresponding Bible resource. This point of view is also confirmed by the documentation on the Logos website:

https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360057224111-Longacre-Genre-Analysis-Dataset#Dataset
Datasets are similar to Interlinear Bibles where words are annotated with a rich set of information. Interlinear Bibles feature built-in datasets that match grammatical information to the base text. When you expand the interlinear options menu to select the lines to display, you’re tapping into datasets.

Second, all 5 bibles which are related to the discussed 12 reverse interlinears are available for sale on the Logos website, — see the links in my previous post in this thread to the Bible product pages.

So I hope that your attention to this matter will allow to resolve the problem and allow me (and others who own FFS) accessing these 12 reverse interlinears which should have been included into the L/V 10 Full Feature Upgrade.

MJ. Smith

I can't find it now but originally the apocrypha was not in the premium level only in the pro level in the subscriptions. To say I thought that was silly was an understatement.

Vlad

MJ. Smith, the FFS did include some reverse interlinears for the apocrypha:

RVI:NEBAPOC - The New English (NEB) English-Greek Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear *
RVI:NEBAPOCVAR - The New English (NEB) English-Greek Apocrypha (Variants) Reverse Interlinear *
RVI:NRSVUEDCAPOC - The NRSVue English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Deuterocanon and Apocrypha
RVI:NRSVUEDCAPOCVAR - The NRSVue English-Greek Reverse Interlinear Deuterocanon and Apocrypha (Variant Texts)
RVI:REBAPOC - The Revised English (REB) English-Greek Apocrypha Reverse Interlinear
RVI:REBAPOCVAR - The Revised English (REB) English-Greek Apocrypha (Variants) Reverse Interlinear
* Your purchase includes this resource, which isn’t available yet. The resource will automatically download once it’s available.

Further, in my list of 12 reverse interlinears which were not included into FFS, there are 4 non-apocryphal interlinears.

So it seems that the omission was not centered only around apocryphal-related resources.

MJ. Smith

I didn't mean to imply it was the complete answer. A complete answer would include that the NRSVue interlinear was not available when L10 was released, IIRC.

Vlad

Hi MJ. Smith, the NRSVue was released in July 2022, so it was available when Logos 10 was released (in October 2022). And it is a fact that the Logos/Verbum 10 Full Feature Upgrade included the NRSVue interlinears, even though they were released in 2023. Also I did not understand why did you mention that "apocrypha was not in the premium level only in the pro level in the subscriptions", i.e. how these subscriptions could be related to this problem of some missing interlinears in the FFS product.

The description of the FFS product stated that it "includes every dataset and tool for biblical and theological research and study we have available", and reverse interlinears are also datasets, so they should have been included in the FFS.

DMB

Hopefully Jason's pinging the marketing folks will bear and bare fruit.

I'd be curious about the claim FF as 'all datasets' since Logos and Verbum were slightly different. Also, if any RIs were post-L10 (?).