problem with correct versification when changing versions
I had a similar problem with this before.
In this case, I created a passage list from a Hebrew lexicon. I then printed the verses out from an English Bible.
The versification between English, Hebrew OT, and Greek OT Bibles is often different.
So here the verses were correct, but some of the verse numbers were different, for the Hebrew Bible.
So any time I print out a passage list and change languages, I need to go over every verse and make sure the verses are right.
I wish I didn't have to.
thank you
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Please give a concrete example. When others have made similar complaints, a simple check in the Text Comparison tool shows that the verse numbers are correct. There were years ago nearly 90 different chapter/verse patterns in Logos. I haven't checked for a recent number but I would expect the increase in languages has also created an increase in verse maps.
I have confidence in Logos verse mapping for Biblical texts with the exception of 1 Enoch and the beginning of Gr. Est in the New Jerusalem translation. They have been thoroughly tested - by me.😉
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Psalm 19:8 is the passage in the Hebrew Bible. The second picture is from the passage list. The verse is right for Ps 19:8, but in English Bibles, that is Psalm 19:7
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It is not that simple …
The questions I would ask:
- What versification is the lexicon assuming?
- What is the versification of my primary Bible?
- If NASB98 is not your primary Bible, how did you change the preferred Bible (and versification) in the passage list?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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- Hebrew lexicon, Hebrew versification.
- Most English Bibles use the same system. In this case, Hebrew Bibles count the heading material of the psalm as verse 1. The next verse may or may not be included in that verse 1. The NAB follows the Hebrew.
- The NASB is my preferred English Bible. I can change and add versions in the passage list.
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@Graham Criddle or @Aaron Hamilton Could one of you take this over? I lack the time at the moment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Psalms are numbered differently in Hebrew and LXX, see here (scroll down to “Numbering”). I figure that’s the reason for different verses being displayed by different English bible translations.
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Yes, but if you use the Logos copy Bible verses function, you can smoothly change translations, and the numbers follow correctly. I am only saying that with the passage list function, that doesn't seem to be working.
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Okay, I finally recreated the bug you've found … you're probably frustrated that it took me so long to find that there was a problem.
The verse mapping is not being invoked when one changes the translation used for a passage list.
To test, use the difference in Malachi chapter 4 which is present in the NRSV but folded into chapter 3 in the NABRE.
- With NABRE as your preferred Bible, open NABRE to Malachi 3:22-23
- Use the Context Menu to add to a Passage List where it adds as Malachi 3:22-23
- Change the Bible displayed in the Passage list to NRSV
- BUG: note that the list still reads Malachi 3:22-23 although in the NRSV the verses are Malachi 4:4-5; What is causing trouble for Larry is that the versification does not match the translation shown (or first in a list) nor is the translation used for the versification readily available. It seems reasonable to expect the versification to match the translation shown.
- Note that if one expands the passage list to full, the NRSV verse numbers reflect the different verse number but BUG don't show the chapter change.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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thank you
Oh, i had mentioned before how there is no reply option to a post here. I saw one a few days ago, but I guess it doesn't appear for all circumstances. I am sure there are a lot of people who won't know to click the quote button, and they shouldn't spend the time to learn about the quote option the hard (slow) way.
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Did you notice that by expanding the passage list to full - the system does show you where the problem verses are? That makes it easier to check the verses while waiting for the fix,
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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No, I am not seeing this. Note this passage list:
it doesn't even give the verse numbers for the Hebrew and Greek, and they are all different from the English
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That may be yet another bug as the verse did show in my test case.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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are you saying that it showed all the different verse numbers for the English, Hebrew, and Greek?
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I only tested with 2 English version so that the error was obvious. The language of the Bible should not matter.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I'm not sure what you mean. In many places, the same verse will have different numbers in English, Hebrew, and Greek.
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The reason that it appears to you that language matters is that the Masoretic and the LXX have different numbers and different orders of text (think Jeremiah). The difference isn't Greek/Hebrew it's LXX/Masoretic.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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All I know is that in most Bible searches and passage lists, I have to go over the results. I either can't just trust them or I have to add verse numbers myself. And in other posts, I mentioned that the Hebrew font is like chicken scrawl, so I have to redo that manually, and the Greek font often has spacing issues that I have to manually replace too.
thank you for your time and efforts here
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