Tracking CP and Pre-pubs
There are quite often questions in the forums about how long it takes to produce a resource, why it takes so long to produce a particular resource and how much the price changes between Community Pricing, Pre-pub and the final selling price. It seems that it's not always easy to answer these questions in anything other than a fairly vague way, so I thought it might be useful to track the changes as they happen. As the Classic Commentaries have nearly all been produced (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/39093/377469.aspx#377469), I thought I'd have a stab at a more comprehensive tracking document, so here's my first attempt:
The plan is to update it every week or so. There's no need to tell me if you wouldn't find this helpful, but feel free to write if you would. Comments, suggestions, error corrections and missing information would be welcome. If you know of a good thread discussing why a particular resource in Pre-pub has been delayed, then feel free to mention this, and I'll link to it from the Notes field.
Comments
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Hopefully this will prove interesting and useful in time, especially to those who can manipulate the spreadsheet.
Meanwhile, I've combined it all into one spreadsheet and improved the data:
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Very helpful thanks.
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Check Joshua Cp peak. Looks too low.
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Thanks. Yes, it should be $35. This will be corrected in the next spreadsheet.
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
7532.Prepub and CP Tracking - 05 Jul 2012.xls
News - The Lexham High Definition Old Testament and Discourse Hebrew Bible Bundle have moved to 'Under Development' and
Religious
and Theological Abstractshas gone from nowhere to 'Almost There'.
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I didn't intend to update the spreadsheet this soon, but Logos have just added 24 new shipping dates, so I've added these to the spreadsheet:
8585.Prepub and CP Tracking - 05 Jul 2012.xls
Note that very few resources that are 'Under Development', and were added more than a year ago, do not have a planned shipping date. [:D]
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
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Good work Andrew! I wonder if creating a line-graph chart would be helpful based on the data? Also, you may want to consider running this through Google Docs so that others can help you update it and you wouldn't have to repost the file each time. Unless you like doing the work yourself of course!
Pastor, seminary trustee, and app developer. Check out my latest app for churches: The Church App
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Thanks, Chris.
I'm happy for you to suggest a particular line graph, or better still, add it to the spreadsheet and copy the spreadsheet back up. I'll happily include it as an extra sheet in future posts.
Regarding using Google Docs, it sounds like a good idea. I had thought of it, but didn't get very far on thinking through how to decide who should get write access. If you've helpful suggestions, then I'd be happy to hear them.
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This is still evolving. Hopefully it's now easier to filter...
The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
0513.Prepub and CP Tracking - 21 Jul 2012.xls
The biggest news is the price rise for the Understanding the Bible Commentary Series: Old Testament (16 vols.), which has risen from $99.95 to $179.95 and has returned from Under Development to Gathering Interest again. Congratulations if you got in at the early price. Logos usually honours the lowest price set.
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Now tracking slippage as well, when Pre-Pubs are supposed to ship but are then delayed.
Here's the latest spreadsheet...
1401.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Aug 2012.xls
Still open to suggestions...
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To celebrate Bob's comment regarding the Harper one titles (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/52467.aspx?PageIndex=3), here's the latest update, including a link to the explanation for the delay, and the comment that they should be shipping soon. [:)]
0815.Prepub and CP Tracking - 10 Aug 2012.xls
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The resources due to ship in September have just been published, so here's the updated spreadsheet. It seems that there are far fewer delayed resources than when this tracking started less than two months ago (see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/51686/387725.aspx#387725). Thanks, Logos. Let's hope that continues. [:D]
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Here's the latest spreadsheet: 1488.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Sep 2012.xls
It includes a list of resources that went into development in August, and an extra column to track when Logos raise the Pre-Pub price a few weeks after adding the resource. They seem to be doing this quite a bit at the moment but, as long as they're letting people know in advance, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
As always, feel free to notify me of any mistakes, recommendations for changes, etc.
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It's been a month since the last update, so here's the latest version of the spreadsheet:
2818.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Oct 2012.xls
There's a new column for the date that a resource first starts to ship, for those resources that are released in batches, such as Geerhardus Vos' "Reformed Dogmatics". Volume One shipped on 14 September 2012, though this isn't recorded on the product page, which still shows it as Under Development in pre-pub.
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Andrew Baguley said:
Geerhardus Vos' "Reformed Dogmatics". Volume One shipped on 14 September 2012, though this isn't recorded on the product page, which still shows it as Under Development in pre-pub.
Andrew,
I think this was just an excerpt from Volume One, a sort of "amuse gueule", which is a free greeting from the kitchen in expensive restaurants when you ordered a large menu and now wait for it to be cooked.
EDIT: just looked: the shipment is two chapters
Have joy in the Lord!
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Quite right, N.B. I should have checked...
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November's update includes formatting to show items with a shipping date in the future:
2311.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Nov 2012.xls
For the 101 resources shipped in the last four months:
Pre-pub prices have shown an average 27% saving on the final sale price (range: 0-62%).
Community Pricing has shown an average 80% saving on the final sale price (range: 54-92%).
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On the new look website Logos have added their expected selling price for items in pre-pub and community pricing (CP), so these have now been added to the spreadsheet. [:D] This is really helpful, in that it gives an indication of how much can be saved, especially as the regular selling price isn't always that close to the retail price. (There are a few items where I'm not sure I trust the really high expected selling prices. These are CP and ex-CP items where the retail price is the same as the Logos selling price. I think they've simply not set the selling price and the retail price has been picked up as a default.)
In updating, it was clear that there are a number of items where the pre-pub price has risen since the item was first added to pre-pub. These are indicated using a red font. Column Z shows the original pre-pub price. Hope this is helpful:
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
8877.Prepub and CP Tracking - 07 Dec 2012.xls
For comments on how Logos is reducing the backlog, see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/51686/437842.aspx#437842.
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this is cool!
Downloading it now.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Thanks for doing this Andrew. I found it quite interesting. May I ask how you practically use this information?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
Thanks for doing this Andrew. I found it quite interesting. May I ask how you practically use this information?
Sorry it's taken so long to reply. There are so many ways this information can be used, including some I had never thought of when I started the tracking.
However, if I'm honest, I started it for slightly different reasons.
Firstly, I benefit from the forums and wanted to give something back. I couldn't answer many specific questions as effectively as some others could, so I thought this might fill a gap. Questions on the forums regarding how long it takes for a resource to enter production and regarding slippage from published shipping dates often stir up more heat than light. The tracking spreadsheet provides a few facts regarding historical data. For example, slippage is a problem, but when an overview is taken, it is quite a small problem. The spreadsheet helps to highlight where the real problems are and tries to link to the best discussion on the forums regarding the problem for each resource. This is helpful for me, as it means that I don't have to keep searching the forums. It also allows me to see where Logos are creating problems by writing misleadingly, where people posting on the forums are exaggerating problems and just what the truth is regarding some of the resources I have ordered. Continual slippage is a problem, but the spreadsheet helps to keep it in perspective, allowing me to adjust my expectations. (For the record, I don't think Logos deliberately misleads, but forum posts frequently illustrate how much they unwittingly do so.)
Secondly, I found that as I placed Pre-pub and Community Pricing Orders, I would often be trying to work out which resources were progressing, which were likely to make it to Under Development status, etc. I also continually checked for newly added items. Producing the spreadsheet has given me an excuse for doing this, allowing others to benefit from the time I've spent checking.
Thirdly, it has allowed me to get a better overview of how the systems work. I suspected that the number of resources being added and shipped was greatly increasing and that I needed to change my ordering strategy to cope with this. Spending time updating the spreadsheet has confirmed the shift and allowed me to continually update my ordering strategy. The different columns showing savings have allowed me to judge how worthwhile it would be to go for a pre-pub, rather than wait until I would definitely use a resource.
Fourthly, I don't know if the tracking spreadsheet has made any difference, but the related forum post (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/51686.aspx), which keeps track of the most delayed resources, illustrates that Logos have upped their game here. There are far fewer delayed resources since I started tracking and none appear to be lost in the system any more.
Lastly, the filtering ability is useful as I often look at subsets of the data. This would be far harder to do without a spreadsheet, but takes seconds with the data already available in an appropriate format.
I imagine others may well use the data in different ways, but that's the benefit of making it available in as flexible a form as possible to others with different interests and skills.
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
3058.Prepub and CP Tracking - 12 Jan 2013.xls
It includes a new worksheet tracking the number of resources posted and shipped each month.
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Thanks for this Andrew. Maybe you could do this as a shared document online, so that it is always 'live'
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
1033.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Feb 2013.xls
The worksheet tracking the number of resources posted and shipped each month should now update automatically. A copy of the current sheet is below:
01/02/2013 New PP Gather No Date Shipping Shipped From CP No Date Shipping Shipped Pre 05/12 133 20 22 2 89 34 1 2 31 May-12 30 0 2 0 28 8 1 1 6 Jun-12 22 5 9 3 5 18 4 1 13 Jul-12 28 2 16 2 8 2 0 0 2 Aug-12 50 11 11 14 14 8 0 4 4 Sep-12 46 23 12 2 9 5 1 3 1 Oct-12 27 7 8 4 8 7 2 1 4 Nov-12 44 21 10 12 1 7 3 3 1 Dec-12 37 16 10 11 0 5 4 1 0 Jan-13 61 45 16 0 0 3 2 1 0 0 -
Thanks for the feedback, Geo.
I'm happy to experiment putting it online if someone gives me straightforward instructions on how to do it. I'm sure it's simple, but I'm not sure I've the time to spend on it at the moment. Initially at least, I would like to be the only one with write access.
My main reservation is that the expectation will be higher for it being up-to-date and I tend to update it piecemeal, giving it a final full update just before I post it online. I also like the fact that it builds up a picture over time, so we can compare the current spreadsheet with previous updates. Quite often, and especially this month, there are a few resources that have had their Selling prices changed from those originally advertised, and a few resources have gone backwards, particularly from Almost There to Gathering Interest. These can be seen by tracing back through previous spreadsheets. Only keeping an online version would lose this feature. Building in an archiving system sounds like more work...
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Hi Andrew,
Yes I would be glad to help if you needed me. And about the tracing back, yes it is very useful and perhaps some Excel gurus here have some ideas on how to do that in a different way.
Cheers
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
5008.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Mar 2013.xls
The worksheet tracking the number of resources posted and shipped each month should now update automatically. A copy of the current sheet is below:
536 180 113 35 208 104 16 10 78 01/03/2013 New PP Gather No Date Shipping Shipped From CP No Date Shipping Shipped Pre 05/12 133 20 20 2 91 34 1 1 32 May-12 30 0 2 0 28 8 1 1 6 Jun-12 22 5 6 4 7 18 3 1 14 Jul-12 28 2 12 5 9 2 0 0 2 Aug-12 50 11 6 6 27 8 0 1 7 Sep-12 46 20 13 2 11 5 1 0 4 Oct-12 27 7 8 0 12 7 1 0 6 Nov-12 44 20 5 8 11 7 1 2 4 Dec-12 37 15 7 3 12 5 2 1 2 Jan-13 61 33 23 5 0 3 0 2 1 Feb-13 58 47 11 0 0 7 6 1 0 0 -
Geo Philips said:
Yes I would be glad to help if you needed me. And about the tracing back, yes it is very useful and perhaps some Excel gurus here have some ideas on how to do that in a different way.
Thanks for the offer, Geo. If anyone wants to post simple instructions here, or a link to some elsewhere, then I'd be ready to give it a go.
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Andrew, you do such an amazing job at this. Thanks for sharing all your hard work on this.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
Andrew, you do such an amazing job at this. Thanks for sharing all your hard work on this.
...and thanks for your encouragement, Bruce.0 -
The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
1050.Prepub and CP Tracking - 01 Apr 2013.xls
The third worksheet tracks the number of resources posted and shipped each month. A copy of the current sheet is below:
592 196 119 36 241 115 19 13 83 Shipped 01/04/2013 New PP Gather No Date Shipping Shipped From CP No Date Shipping Shipped This Month Pre May-12 133 18 19 1 95 34 1 1 32 May-12 30 0 1 1 28 8 1 1 6 Jun-12 22 5 2 3 12 18 0 2 16 8 Jul-12 28 2 11 1 14 2 0 0 2 9 Aug-12 50 11 4 3 32 8 0 1 7 36 Sep-12 46 16 11 6 13 5 0 1 4 27 Oct-12 27 5 10 0 12 7 0 1 6 24 Nov-12 44 17 6 2 19 7 0 2 5 38 Dec-12 37 14 7 2 14 5 2 0 3 42 Jan-13 61 27 17 15 2 3 0 2 1 40 Feb-13 60 39 19 2 0 7 4 2 1 58 Mar-13 54 42 12 0 0 11 11 0 0 40 The last column shows the number of resources that have actually shipped in the given month, irrespective of when they were added. The other columns relate to resources first added in the month on the left.
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Andrew Baguley said:
Thanks for the offer, Geo. If anyone wants to post simple instructions here, or a link to some elsewhere, then I'd be ready to give it a go.
Just upload it to http://docs.google.com/ or https://skydrive.live.com/ and then share it.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Just upload it to http://docs.google.com/ or https://skydrive.live.com/ and then share it.
Thanks, Mark. As it happens, I have a little time to experiment. I'm not sure how well this works:When I tried just sharing it, it seemed to display more like a pdf than a spreadsheet, so I've now converted it to a Google Sheet. It doesn't seem to like the COUNTIFS function I used in Excel. If anyone would be happy to rewrite this for Google Docs, then feel free to post the new formula and I'll update it. You can see the original formulae on the Excel sheet.I'm open to other suggestions as well. I definitely see this as an experiment.0 -
This is the version that looked like a pdf:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bz40zXV7qkUpU3BWWEZNd0Y1TVk/edit?usp=sharing
It seems that the Google Sheets version does not allow filtering, etc. once shared. Is that true? I see find and filter as essential. I can use these when editing, but would like everyone to be able to use them.
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The following link looks like what you need to rewrite the COUNTIFS function:
https://productforums.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/docs/EE_I7XAq3nA
When you import the file, make sure you have import settings set to convert the document rather than just upload. The setting is found in the gear button at the top right when you open Google Drive.
Permissions on Google docs are not done very well at all. You have to share the doc for read/write in order to use filters etc. If you share it read/write, my experience sharing on this forum is that people will make all kinds of alterations, including deleting nearly everything. Thankfully, Google docs has decent version management to roll back such changes.
The best option is probably to make it read-only ("Anyone who has the link can view") and only allow full access by specific request. That will give you the most control againts trouble makers.
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Andrew Baguley said:
It seems that the Google Sheets version does not allow filtering, etc. once shared. Is that true? I see find and filter as essential. I can use these when editing, but would like everyone to be able to use them.
If you want to allow this kind of access, you would be better using Microsoft SkyDrive. That allows you to have a simplified view of the spreadsheet through your web-browser (which won't support filtering), but also access it via Excel if you have it installed (which will support filtering).
If you use Office 2010, you can publish to SkyDrive directly from Excel (to to File -> Save & Send -> Save to Web). If you don't have Office 2010, you'll have to download the SkyDrive app, or manually upload the file to http://skydrive.live.com - that's the site you visit to share the file, as well. When you do, you'll get a link like this one: http://sdrv.ms/11iApmM
The great thing about this setup is that you won't need to keep creating/uploading new files. Just keep editing the same file, and anyone who clicks on the link will always get the latest version.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks, Shayne. The gear button is exactly what I needed with Google docs but, as you say, this doesn't look like an ideal solution. I'm not looking for more work, so I might not go down this path after all.
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Mark Barnes said:Andrew Baguley said:
It seems that the Google Sheets version does not allow filtering, etc. once shared. Is that true? I see find and filter as essential. I can use these when editing, but would like everyone to be able to use them.
If you want to allow this kind of access, you would be better using Microsoft SkyDrive...
The great thing about this setup is that you won't need to keep creating/uploading new files. Just keep editing the same file, and anyone who clicks on the link will always get the latest version.
Thanks, Mark. This looks like exactly what I would need to do. I've taken a quick look at SkyDrive and it seems that to use it I need to set up a Microsoft account, take on another email address, tell Microsoft where I live and other personal details, and then I would have the functionality I would need.I'm grateful for the advice, but I'm not sure I'm looking to take this on just now. If somebody else wants to, then I won't stand in their way, but for the moment at least, I'll stick with the (about monthly) uploaded Excel doc. It's a shame, as I definitely update it more often, and I can see it would be useful for others to be able to click in to the latest version without having to download a file, but I don't really have an incentive to make the change, especially as I don't even know how helpful this is for people.0 -
There have been a number of new shipping dates published, especially for titles that have been struggling to gather interest and have been pushed through to Under Development and given shipping dates.
The latest spreadsheet can be found at:
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The latest spreadsheet tracking dates and delays, prices and savings is below:
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Your commitment to doing this is astounding! Thanks.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Thanks for the encouragement.
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Peace, Andrew! You probably should have even more encouragement! I just took a look at your current file, and it must have taken an incredible amount of hours of devoted labour ............ Thank you on behalf of us all! *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Indeed! I find your work very useful and benefit from it. So thank you again.Milford Charles Murray said:Peace, Andrew! You probably should have even more encouragement! I just took a look at your current file, and it must have taken an incredible amount of hours of devoted labour ............ Thank you on behalf of us all! *smile*
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Just checking out the document. Pretty cool! I was wondering if there's any way of projecting the CP closing date by percentage of growth and time in CP, and posting it in a collumn. Of course these will change as interest surges or fades, but it might be a good way of getting an idea of when a resource will move forward. I looked to see if I could find a projected date but couldn't, -but I might have just missed it.
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Thanks for the suggestion, Liam. It's one of the really useful features I deliberately didn't include. The only reason really is time. I think it would mean manually visiting every CP title, say every two weeks, and estimating how many bids there had been, then updating the spreadsheet. I just can't commit the time to it, but if someone else was offering...[;)]
If Logos published the percentage bids as a number, as well as showing the information graphically, then that would make it easier, but it would still be time consuming. The precursor to this spreadsheet tracked the classic collections on their way through CP (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/39093/389661.aspx#389661), so I know it would take some time.
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Here's the latest spreadsheet:
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Here's the latest spreadsheet:
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