Does a Windows or a Mac system wear the HDD/SSD less?

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As I saw
the other day that Word is cheaper for Mac than for Windows, I started to think
of Mac as an alternative: soon I will have no computer.

I would like purchase, when I afford to during the autumn, a computer at a low
price for taking notes during sermons, which lasts long and can be upgraded to
L5.

Does a Mac system use the HDD/SSD a lot for temporary files, virtual memory,
cache and the operative system?

I’m not conserned about how much wear there is to the HDD/SSD upon boot, because I keep the computer on and/or in powersave-mode for several days at a time.

My digital library is around 550 books, although many of the commentaries have
a high page count. I will not be purchasing more than a handful of additional
books.

I'm considering buying Catholic Practicum and run it from the DVD-drive.

I don't know what the difference in computer prices is between the U.S. and
over here. But I was thinking of spending maximally $750 on a used laptop with
a very small monitor (11"-13"), including operative system but
probably excluding Word. I probably won't choose Air, even though it's fast, because I hope an older computer can handle operative system upgrades and the L upgrade - correct me if I'm wrong!

As I find it very ineffective to do serious studies with a small monitor, I
think I will probably buy also a desktop computer about a year from now, a Mac.
So I will not be wholly dependent on the laptop. But I've already decided to
spend very little on the desktop computer - it doesn't need to be as fast as
the laptop because there isn't a set pace of taking notes when You're off
Church and I have a great deal of patience.

Oh, and I won't be using other programs than Word, L and the browser.

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Comments

Mike Binks

Hi Unix

Somebody once told me that when you go to a restaurant you should eat what they are good at cooking.

It seems that you have decided that 'Word' and 'Logos' are your two main programs. Logos is good on either the Mac OS or Windows.

But 'Word' is made for 'Windows' so that should be your path.

However I don't see your logic! What should concern you is not 'initial cost' but total cost of ownership. Word is not the only capable word processor - the free 'Open Office' derivatives offer as good an experience and run on both Operating Systems.

It will be more cost effective to purchase a good quality laptop and increase the screen size at home by plugging in an external monitor than it will be to purchase (and maintain) a second computer.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383373#Comment_383373

Yes, that's correct, I would use the browser much less: most of the time I won't have internet.

It seems that you have decided that 'Word' and 'Logos' are your two main programs.

Isn't there a difference?

Logos is good on either the Mac OS or Windows.

My use of Word is not so advanced that Mac wouldn't do.

But 'Word' is made for 'Windows' so that should be your path.

Is the UK spellcheck and grammar as good in Open Office? Can I make Personal Books with Open Office? The latter I think not, the former I don't know.

However I don't see your logic! What should concern you is not 'initial cost' but total cost of ownership. Word is not the only capable word processor - the free 'Open Office' derivatives offer as good an experience and run on both Operating Systems.

I don't think that will work! The monitor of the laptop is in the way, where do I place the large monitor? I don't want to place it too high!

It will be more cost effective to purchase a good quality laptop and increase the screen size at home by plugging in an external monitor than it will be to purchase (and maintain) a second computer.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383424#Comment_383424

Macs have had WORD longer than windows.. as late as MS OFFICE in 2000 the mac was declared to be better than the windows, I can not say lately what I have found is OFFICE feels very bloated… i mean 2004 was ok 2008 was worse i briefly tried the download of 2011 and said no no no… But office mac and office windows are similar and close enough to interchangeable that if you like it on windows you will feel comfortable with it on the mac. Macs have been using SSD since the original macbook air back in 2008. The latest AIRS SSDs are nearly twice as fast as the 2011 models. And with the new Retina display MacBook Pro there is option to get the SSD with it. Macs are more expensive than the cheapest windows machines but if you go to someplace like dell and price out a comparable device you will find macs are usually cheaper. I am a long time mac user, and when i replace my 2010 macbook, i will go too whatever macbook air is current, i had a chance to play for a couple weeks with a macbook air 11 inch and was amazed how fast Logos ran on it and the small screen didn't bother me at all. I loved the light weight. But in the end you should buy what is going to be best for you.

-Dan

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383424#Comment_383424

But 'Word' is made for 'Windows' so that should be your path.
Is the UK spellcheck and grammar as good in Open Office? Can I make Personal Books with Open Office? The latter I think not, the former I don't know.

For personal books in Logos 4 Mac, LibreOffice allows logosres hyperlinks => Wordprocessor for PBB

Also, LibreOffice can handle Hebrew in a complex text layout that Word 2011 cannot. Thread => LibreOffice Mac and Hebrew includes reference to thread => Displaying Gentium Greek and SBL Hebrew in material pasted into MS Word 2011 (Mac)

LibreOffice extensions have a variety of spelling and thesaurus options => http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/american-british-canadian-spelling-hyphen-thesaurus-dictionaries

Macs are more expensive than the cheapest windows machines but if you go to someplace like dell and price out a comparable device you will find macs are usually cheaper.

Price comparison depends on model. Likewise can compare new and refurbished: both Dell and Apple sell refurbished computers along with having computer return policies of 14 days for new purchases. Dell puts a refurbished sticker on the computer while Apple puts the sticker on the box.

Comparing Dell Outlet to Apple's refurbished shows July 2011 MacBook Air 11" models being a bit more than recent Dell XPS 13 ultrabooks (1.6 Core i5 with 4 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD). Comparing 17" laptops shows Dell Outlet costing much less (with Dell's twitter coupons, can buy two Dell XPS 17" laptops for less than one refurbished 17" MacBook Pro plus have more video RAM in Dell XPS 17").

If was buying a MacBook Air for Logos 4 use, recommend 4 GB (or more) RAM. The MacBook Air RAM is surface mounted to the motherboard so cannot be upgraded.

Macs have had WORD longer than windows..

+1 [Y] albeit Microsoft stopped developing Word for Mac for a number of years while enhancing the Windows version. Word 2011 on Mac has problems with Hebrew while Word 2010 on Windows works fine with Hebrew. The new Office 2013 lacks a version for Mac. Word 2011 on Mac effectively has publisher combined to compete with Apple's Pages.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383446#Comment_383446

I've used Windows XP with Word 2002 the most. Then I switched directly to Windows 7 Word 2010 version and it seems to have improved grammar-check, but I think there's still room for improvement.

as late as MS OFFICE in 2000 the mac was declared to be better than the windows, I can not say lately what I have found is OFFICE feels very bloated… i mean 2004 was ok 2008 was worse i briefly tried the download of 2011 and said no no no… But office mac and office windows are similar and close enough to interchangeable that if you like it on windows you will feel comfortable with it on the mac.

There was a somewhat cheap Mac AIR 11" with SSD sold used a few days ago over here, but it was too early to buy a computer at this stage (& I've bought a huge bundle of books in Logos this month so I have no money left), and it was above the price limit I've set. Would it be an option to buy a several years old Mac that comes with install disks, buy a new HDD to it, and install by myself? Can anyone give an approximation of how long it would last? I'll go to a computer store and ask how much a HDD would cost.
I'm not bothered by weight at all.

Macs have been using SSD since the original macbook air back in 2008. [...] Macs are more expensive than the cheapest windows machines but if you go to someplace like dell and price out a comparable device you will find macs are usually cheaper. I am a long time mac user, and when i replace my 2010 macbook, i will go too whatever macbook air is current, i had a chance to play for a couple weeks with a macbook air 11 inch and was amazed how fast Logos ran on it and the small screen didn't bother me at all. I loved the light weight.

It seems like it's possible to upgrade a MacBook Pro to OS-X Lion: http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/MacBook_Pro_2_26GHz_i_bra_skick_41630698.htm?ca=11&w=1
Specs: Monitor 13"
CPU: 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
RAM: 2GB, expandable to 8 GB (I would expand)
HDD: 160GB
Price: 5500 SEK = $793
The subject-line of the ad says that the computer is in good shape. I short message texted the seller asking if the HDD is new, whether there is a DVD-drive, and does it come with OS-X Lion install disks.
I see this CPU often. Will Logos & Word run slow on it?
I'm sure I could get a computer with these specs for less than $750, possibly with enough RAM (I suppose RAM prices are low at the moment).

Here is another ad, same CPU but higher GHz:
http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Macbook_Pro_2010_41604938.htm?ca=11&w=1
CPU: 2.66 GHz
RAM: 4 GB 1,067 MHz DDR3
... would the faster CPU be noticeable? The computer in this particular ad is over-priced ($937).

As You can see, computers are pretty expensive over here!

Do I need 8 GB RAM with OS-X Lion running L4, Accordance 9 ( http://www.accordancebible.com/support/install.php#Lion ) to be able to use the 1989 REB Bible[/url] and Word 2011? Is there any Mac laptop to which exactly 6 GB RAM can be installed?

OK, great! I wonder how good it is compared to Word 2011? But I guess no-one knows here on the forums and I don't know where I could get unbiased answers on that!

LibreOffice extensions have a variety of spelling and thesaurus options => http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/american-british-canadian-spelling-hyphen-thesaurus-dictionaries

I'll need very little Hebrew.

Word 2011 on Mac has problems with Hebrew while Word 2010 on Windows works fine with Hebrew. The new Office 2013 lacks a version for Mac. Word 2011 on Mac effectively has publisher combined to compete with Apple's Pages.

What of the following makes the greatest difference in speed?:

Larger HDD
Higher GHz
Newer CPU (for example Intel i3 dualcore)?
13" monitor instead of 11"

A larger computer doesn't bother me at Church and in the commuter-train (the only local-area trains over here with a socket for passengers to use electricity, the most typical distance I travel with it is 13-16 minutes)

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383473#Comment_383473

What of the following makes the greatest difference in speed?:

Larger HDD

Higher GHz

Newer CPU (for example Intel i3 dualcore)?

13" monitor instead of 11"

A larger computer doesn't bother me at Church and in the commuter-train (the only local-area trains over here with a socket for passengers to use electricity, the most typical distance I travel with it is 13-16 minutes)

Newer CPUs due tend to preform faster the pixel difference from 11-13 won;t change performance levels really. i have heard from some friends in the PC word the i3 performance is a bit lack lustre. LArger HDD is not a performance issue.. speed is. Hard disks have to spin so the faster the rotation the better for performance. Best of all of course is the Solid state drive because access is closer to instant. My computer is a 2010 2.66 i7 with 8 gb and a 7200rpm hard drive. when I tried out a macbook Air with SSD (all airs have SSD) even though it was only a 1.8 GHz machine Logos seemed to work much faster, even with less memory and slower processor speed.

-Dan

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383473#Comment_383473

... does it come with OS-X Lion install disks.

Many OS X Lion upgrades were downloaded from Apple's App Store. The Apple store has => OS X Lion USB Thumb Drive

OS X Mountain Lion should be available for download soon, tech specs include which Mac models are supported => http://www.apple.com/osx/specs/

The I Fix It web site includes repair guides for many Mac models => http://www.ifixit.com/Device/Mac

Noticed Apple's UK web store currently does not have refurbished Mac's => http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

... would the faster CPU be noticeable?

Faster CPU is noticeable in Logos 4 when searching, including visual filters. Also faster CPU can be noticed in menu clicking and response; wiki Logos 4 Mac => What to Expect includes:

Three Logos 4 Mac menus do not follow historic Mac conventions: File, Guides, and Layouts - recommend quick click to display menu (may take seconds to display), then can right OR left click on menu items.

What of the following makes the greatest difference in speed?:

Wiki Logos 4 Mac => Logos 4 => Common Experience on Mac & PC includes:

Logos 4 is resource intensive on Mac & PC – benefits from fast processor, graphics, and quick storage along with adequate memory (i.e. newer hardware since Logos 4 being designed for use over 5 to 8 years); Solid State Disk (SSD) is noticeably faster than hard disk.

A number of MacBook and MacBook Pro models have 5400 RPM disk drives. Changing to a 7200 RPM disk drive can improve performance up to 30 % (in many applications) while reducing usable battery time since faster hard drive uses more power.

Note Book Check has a processor benchmark list => http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Processors-Benchmarklist.2436.0.html

For Logos 4 use, personally would look for an Intel Core i7 (any generation) or second/third generation Intel Core i5.

Is there any Mac laptop to which exactly 6 GB RAM can be installed?

Many laptops have 2 slots so 6 GB is possible (with 2 GB and 4 GB dimm's); practically would suggest 8 GB (or more). If not enough RAM is installed for the programs being used, swapping happens, which is always slow.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383509#Comment_383509

It seems like if a computer is worn & doesn't have Word or LibreOffice installed, that the cheapest thing to do is to change the HDD to a new one with 7200 rpm!

Here's an example of a desktop computer: http://www.blocket.se/uppsala/Mac_mini_1_1_2_0GHz_41450015.htm?ca=11&w=3

Specs: Mac mini 1.1

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz (meets Logos official recommended requirement)

RAM: 2 GB 667MHz (meets Logos official minimum requirement)

HDD: 320 GB 5400 rpm

Graphics: Intel GMA 950 chip

DVD-player and CR-writer

Wlan Airport extreme 802.11

Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

Price: 2100 SEK ~ $300.

RAM not expandable. Comes without monitor. I would connect at least a 1440 x 1024 monitor, preferably an Apple Cinema HD 1920 x 1280! The installation disks that come with it are not
compatible with L4. Can't handle OS-X Lion, but that's no problem
because this computer would not have to last until after the release of
L5. Specs: http://macprob.com/index.php?wiki/mac-mini-early-2006/ The CPU is changed from 1.66 GHz Core Duo. How slow would this computer run if I would keep only one program open simultaneously? At home most of my time goes just to reading, I click on for example Gk words, notes and don't do searching all the time. Keep in mind that this computer would not have to last very long, so if there's a bit of HDD wear that's OK. Is it possible in MacOS to make partitions on the HDD and use just one partition at a time? - That way I could use a new partition whenever I do a re-install, to spread the wear.

It will be more cost effective to purchase a
good quality laptop and increase the screen size at home by plugging in
an external monitor than it will be to purchase (and maintain) a second
computer.

Yeah I bet i7 and the newer i5 are great when You run many programs and have the browser open simultaneously because they can handle at least twice as many threads. But the i5 newer generations CPU:s don't seem fast enough
to justify the difference in price + I simply can't afford i5 nor SSD.
All I need to do with the laptop is to use it in commuter traffic and
Church, that's not many hours a week. Also, the newer CPU:s don't seem to consume noticeably less battery.

For Logos 4 use, personally would look for an Intel Core i7 (any generation) or second/third generation Intel Core i5.

Yeah the benchmark results confirm that.

i have heard from some friends in the PC word the i3 performance is a bit lack lustre.

No-one has answered my first question yet (I understand: it might be hard to know): Does a Windows or a Mac system wear the HDD less?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383560#Comment_383560

RAM: 2 GB 667MHz (meets Logos official minimum requirement)

Concur 2 GB meets the official minimum so Logos 4 application can be opened.

One Logos 4 Mac user has a Mac Mini with 2 GB RAM plus a swap file approaching 2 GB => BUG?: Why does tagging use so much RAM? so a RAM upgrade to 4 GB should noticeably improve Logos 4 Mac performance.

Is it possible in MacOS to make partitions on the HDD and use just one partition at a time?

Yes, holding the option key when a Mac starts up causes OS X to search all storage partitions to find which one(s) are bootable. A Mac can boot from external and internal partitions, including optical media. The boot partition is mounted as the root file system. Also, Apple's Disk Utility can easily copy one partition to another. Personally planning to boot up a 27" iMac from USB external drive, then copy all internal partitions to external storage so can reformat internal hard drive for OS X Mountain Lion. When copying partitions, have option to copy from one partition to another or create a disk image.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383586#Comment_383586

But isnt MacOS 10.5 a 32-bit operative-system? So it takes half as much RAM.

so a RAM upgrade to 4 GB should noticeably improve Logos 4 Mac performance.

Here's an ad with a reasonably priced laptop: http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Macbook_Pro_13_tum_2_4_GHz_Intel_Core_2_Duo_41642020.htm?ca=11&w=2
Specs: MacBook Pro
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz
RAM: 4 GB 1,067 MHz
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 320M 256 MB
Monitor: 13" 1280 x 800 pixel
OS-X Lion 10.7.4
Price: 5000 SEK = $720
No scratches, bought 2010.

Stephen Chaffer

I set out last year to consider a purchase of a laptop: my choice of the Macbook Pro I5 with SSD 125 and 8 gig ram, really I should have bought 250 meg, my mistake! so I bought time machine and connected a large hard drive and (dropbox for my extended PPB Library), I also have a large monitor to connect to while in my study at home. As, for Word and ease of use of writing Macro's. One thing that is a downside to Word is, it does not detect SBL Hebrew fonts, I have found a way around this. by typing into the font area SBL Hebrew and change and replace the Hebrew text I have made a colour, or highlighted the hebrew to change to the desired font.

Now there are other free word processors available to download, I have tried a number of Mac word processors and they have different advantages, but Word Excel has everything I needed, easy to write Macro's which is important to me (If you do use large files like I do, and run Macro's on them they use 8 gig ram and cause the machine to slow down, the only way around this is to close down and restart, also, on the SSD drive from time to time, because of large files the hard-drive appears full, again I found if you have close down the machine and restart this restores the 40 gig that was used up). This is a WORD thing!

Yours Always in Jesus' Love

Stephen Chaffer

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383597#Comment_383597

But isnt MacOS 10.5 a 32-bit operative-system? So it takes half as much RAM.

On an iMac running OS X 10.6.* with 64-bit kernel enabled for noticeable speed improvement in many applications, personally experienced 8 GB RAM not being enough => Running Very Slowly - Logs attached

Here's an ad with a reasonably priced laptop:

Concur price is reasonable. Power Max offers used Mac models with 90 day warranty => http://www.powermax.com/preowned_macs

Keep Smiling [:)]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383560#Comment_383560

Here's an example of a desktop computer: http://www.blocket.se/uppsala/Mac_mini_1_1_2_0GHz_41450015.htm?ca=11&w=3

Specs: Mac mini 1.1

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz (meets Logos official recommended requirement)

RAM: 2 GB 667MHz (meets Logos official minimum requirement)

HDD: 320 GB 5400 rpm

Graphics: Intel GMA 950 chip

DVD-player and CR-writer

Wlan Airport extreme 802.11

Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

Price: 2100 SEK ~ $300.

RAM not expandable.

That's worse than my Mini, on which Logos is next to unusable. You need at least 4GB RAM.

One Logos 4 Mac user has a Mac Mini with 2 GB RAM plus a swap file approaching 2 GB

Actually, by now I've seen it approach 4GB several times, and it's getting worse. What I find weird is that while the huge performance blow usually happens somewhere between 1.5 and 2 GB, sometimes it comes as early as 1.1 and sometimes it doesn't come until after 3.5.

Martin Diers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383597#Comment_383597

But isnt MacOS 10.5 a 32-bit operative-system? So it takes half as much RAM.

It doesn't work that way. A 32-bit app running on a 64-bit OS uses approximately the same amount of memory. Logos is a 32-bit app, and so it does not use any extra memory.

Also, while 64-bit apps definitely use more memory than their 32-bit equivalents, it is not even remotely close to twice as much. To understand why you must remember that software running on your machine is divided between code and data. The code is the actual software instructions which your processor is executing. The data is what the instructions operate on. The code is what will take up more memory when compiled to 64-bit. (I am simplifying this. By "Code" I mean the stack. The actual instructions are not any longer, and so do not consume any more memory.) However, in almost every case, the memory consumed by the code and the stack is dwarfed by the memory consumed by the data on which the code operates.

The data takes the same amount of memory whether the code is compiled for a 32 or 64-bit processor. So, if you are familiar with the standard C/C++ data types, an int, char, long, etc., all consume the same amount of memory in 32-bit code as in 64-bit code.

So, for example, if you compare the memory usage of Windows 7 64-bit to Windows 7 32-bit, configured the same way on the same hardware, the amount of extra RAM used by the 64-bit version will be around 100MB. In other words 0.1GB.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384266#Comment_384266

Yeah I'm a bit familiar with C/C++ and I know the data types. Thank's for the easy explanation, I appreciate.

I just saw a cheap computer:
http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Macbook_Black_13__2_4_GHz_4GB_i_toppskick_41365711.htm?ca=11&w=1
Specs:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz
RAM: 4 GB
HDD: 250 GB
Price: 3995:- SEK = $574
American keypad (probably that's why it's cheaper but it's really AOK). Newly installed 10.7.4. Battery bought 1 year ago. Newly served in a well-known shop.

Just writing this so that I'll know to compare later on.

So I called my dad, and he was very unwilling to buy it. He hang up on me before hearing that I can't get payment plans which he thought I would as soon as I start working. So now it'll take me ~ ½ a year to buy a computer. Meanwhile I'll only be able to use public library computers 0-3 miles away where I can't install anything, and they are slow.

I still don't know when my studies start, but if they start in August 2012 I'm in trouble. I'm really worthless at writing by hand. I'm in trouble anyway since I have a large investment in Logos compared to my finances.

My brother is getting a laptop with cellular internet and he doesn't need to pay a penny for it. He also has had access to a computer since a much younger age than me and free living as has my other brother too. My dad said I have no right to compare with him.

I've had a decent computer for less than a year (EDIT: I mean during my entire life), but since I installed Logos I've noticed that it's not as fast as I thought (Windows 7), and my dad forbid me to expand the RAM (he doesn't seem to know much about computers and banking systems but thinks he does) from 4 GB.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383618#Comment_383618

Wow! Look at the performance of this computer and the price!
http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/MacBook_Aluminium_med_SSD_harddisk_39192712.htm?ca=11&w=1
Specs:
Chassis: Aluminium Unibody
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz
RAM: 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
HDD: 160 GB
SSD: 40 GB NON-hybrid, installed instead of DVD-player. It says in the ad that it's nearly 50x faster, can that be true?
OS-X 10.7.3 installed on SSD.
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce 9400M 256MB
Monitor: 13.3"
Keyboard: Swedish, without numeric keypad
Price: 4800 SEK = $690
With a computer like that I could install Catholic Practicum on the HDD temporarely connecting a DVD-player (temporarely installing Mac OS on the HDD) and download Original Languages, that way I would manage without a permanent DVD-player.

Would there be any noticeable difference with the size of my library (which is actually ~ 525 books and never going to be above 550) with an i5 second or third generation CPU?

As I wouldn't install many software, the storage space would be sufficient.

I set out last year to consider a purchase of a laptop: my choice of the Macbook Pro I5 with SSD 125 and 8 gig ram, really I should have bought 250 meg, my mistake! so I bought time machine and connected a large hard drive and (dropbox for my extended PPB Library), I also have a large monitor to connect to while in my study at home.

Also, still no-one has addressed my original question whether a Windows or a Mac system wears the HDD/SSD less?

Daniel Bergquist

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384356#Comment_384356

Also, still no-one has addressed my original question whether a Windows or a Mac system wears the HDD/SSD less?

I would expect that most modern consumer operating systems will treat the drive fairly similarly. Any difference in OS wear and tear on the drive is going to be dwarfed by the applications that you run on the system. A "disk bound" application will wear out the disk more quickly than a "CPU bound" application.

For the most part, you need not concern yourself with this issue, unless you're doing advanced stuff in a datacenter. Do your research on the drives and make sure you pick one that is reliable. Avoid getting the drive too hot, heat kills. Avoid physical blows to the drives like the plague, especially for traditional HDDs.

And always have a backup system for your data. No matter how good the drive, there is always a chance it may fail early or be destroyed in a fire, etc.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384484#Comment_384484

Thanks, Daniel!

In my understanding the OS does more writing and re-writing to the same data areas on the disk than Logos or a word processor does, but I could be wrong?

A "disk bound" application will wear out the disk more quickly than a "CPU bound" application.

The reason I'm asking, is that I want to be able to install L5 on the laptop, when it's released and continue to use the computer for a period. Re-installing everything from scratch seems like a time-consumer to me - that's one point. The same with doing backups + the biggest reason being the continuous cost for having a backup. Seems also a bit pointless to do re-installing of the MacOS as there are no problems with viruses like in Windows systems (not that it plagues me anyway). I have a fire-proof safe, if the laptop is small enough I could put it in there or just the disk, depends on whether I prioritize protecting printed matter or the computer.

For the most part, you need not concern yourself with this issue, unless you're doing advanced stuff in a datacenter. [...]
And always have a backup system for your data. No matter how good the drive, there is always a chance it may fail early or be destroyed in a fire, etc.

Thanks for the advice! I have a bit of problems with heat, as I like to sit long hours, so that and the wear on the keyboard along with the monitor-size problem, are the main reasons why a combination of having a desktop Mac too, is the best sollution. A desktop computer isn't an as valuable investment so it can be an older computer that doesn't need to last as long as the laptop - just be a financially sound purchase, there's especially no need to be able to update the OS.

Do your research on the drives and make sure you pick one that is
reliable. Avoid getting the drive too hot, heat kills.

No problem, had laptops twice before and that was not what rendered them useless, I'm a quite cautious person.

Avoid physical
blows to the drives like the plague, especially for traditional HDDs.

I would still like to have a second opinion! No hurry though!

Daniel Bergquist

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384540#Comment_384540

In my understanding the OS does more writing and re-writing to the same data areas on the disk than Logos or a word processor does, but I could be wrong?

Exactly how data is written to disk is likely to be a function of the file system driver. Also, most modern SSDs have wear-leveling systems built into them and are transparent to the OS. This ensures that all areas of SSDs are worn out evenly rather than wearing out a small space rapidly.

Also a common, consumer level, strategy is to have two hard drives. One with the OS and applications and the other with your data. Usually this is done for performance reasons (two drives are faster than one, also it's common to have an SSD for the OS drive in this setup), to ease the upgrade or reinstall of OS software and to segregate data that needs to be backed up from the software that does not. This would also limit any "OS wear" of the drive to the drive that stores the OS.

But, really, I think you're over thinking it. [;)]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/384558#Comment_384558

I'm looking at cheaper laptops. Windows laptops that can run Logos, range from $230-$380, the cheapest don't have antivirus and have a bit small HDD 80-120 GB, but that should be enough, Windows 7, some lack Scandinavian/Finnish keys. Mid-price computers probably have better battery-life, seem to come with larger HDD, usually 4 GB RAM, but 32-bit Windows 7. The $380 one doesn't have Microsoft Word, but has docking-station, car-charger, antivirus installed, Windows Vista, fingerprint recognition, 3 GB RAM, adequate monitor resolution (1440x900, same as what I recommended others who study), full keyboard. Fujtisu Esprimo.

I can get Word intalled for $46.

The internet use will be minimal. I won't purchase cellular broadband internet or ADSL broadband.

Should I consider a Mac instead as a more long-term sollution from start? Would a MacOS X 10.5 -system with 3 GB RAM wear the HDD less than a Windows Vista system with 3 GB RAM? I would pay slightly more for a Mac since I think the problems with viruses is a severe problem even though I would only use it minimally for internet (mostly at school), the first laptop I bought stopped functioning because of the previous owners viruses (came without antivirus and I didn't install antivirus).

The performance of used laptops seem to have developed surprisingly little in
1¾ years - they still don't come with fast CPU:s, good battery life, larger monitors.

The main reasons I'm considering the Fujtisu Esprimo is that the extra features would be fun, and the larger monitor resolution. School closes now so I don't have time to look up how much it weighs.

Now I'm considering an ASUS K53U. Unused in box. $275. Slow CPU. 2 GB RAM, expandable to 8 GB. Large HDD. Very bad monitor resolution. Seller doesn't know if it's a 32-bit or 64-bit system because he/she (foreign name) is not at home right now. The model is aproximately little less than 1 years old.

Stephen Chaffer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398193#Comment_398193

I got Macbook Pro 8gig ram and 128 SSD, works well with Logos and Word, use Word for formatting my docx files its good at Macro editing. The only thing I can say is the 128 is too small for what I need, ware and tare of the SSD does not show up to be a major problem...Apple Care would resolve any issues for three years, they would replace the SSD if it failed, you need to backup, I use Time Machine, this wouldallow you to restore your machine back to the last backup point within a couple of hours at most. (Over twenty-five years, I have had several IDE hard drives break, whatever hard-drive they are unreliable, backup).

I would advice you to buy your Mac from the nearest Apple shop, so if anything goes wrong you can quickly have the machine fixed by visiting their shop. Better than waiting days for a returns etc.

Hope this helps,

Yours Always in Jesus' Love

Stephen

Twitter: @oldpaths_pub

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398234#Comment_398234

I understand Your recommendation. An Apple shop has just opened in a suburb close to where I live, the first real Apple shop in this country. But I can't afford a new computer nor an old maxed computer and/or with good performance and/or all possible features.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398193#Comment_398193

Should I consider a Mac instead as a more long-term sollution from start? Would a MacOS X 10.5 -system with 3 GB RAM wear the HDD less than a Windows Vista system with 3 GB RAM?

After October Logos won't produce any more major updates for 10.5, just Service Releases. You'd be stuck with 4.6 or 4.6a. For the same reason you should make sure not to get XP.

3 GB will be slow now, and there's no knowing if L5 will work with it at all.

Stephen Chaffer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398237#Comment_398237

If you want the best advice but the best PC laptop (4 to 8 gig ram) you can afford, (without SSD) as your not in a financial position to buy the cutting edge tech., on the market. This will be adequate for Logos 4 and use a free word processor.

Yours in Jesus' Love

Stephen

Twitter: @oldpaths_pub

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398280#Comment_398280

Larger monitors than 1024x768 or 1368x768 pixels, seem to be much more expensive over here and that's one thing I unfortunately can't afford! Almost all books I use are very long, so it's time-consuming to scroll them on a small monitor. The cheap computers don't weigh considerably less because of the small monitor.

What I'm worried about is how much can I sell it for when I need to change the computer to a newer/better. I think I would manage with 4 GB RAM, the RAM was rarely full in the laptop I used to use, but it looks like I'm going to have 4 GB. I'm not worried at all about not being able to install L5, I don't plan to keep the computer that long.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398441#Comment_398441

There is a Windows 7 laptop for sale now for $380. An SSD follows with it, 90 GB. Can I install the SSD? It has 4 GB RAM. I asked the seller a couple of questions.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/398516#Comment_398516

There is a computer for sale now that has the exact same CPU and RAM (4 GB) and monitor size (1366x768 pixel) as the one I used to use, the price is $153, it has Windows Vista 32-bit:
http://www.blocket.se/stockholm/Fujitsu_Siemens_Amilo_16__42835326.htm?ca=11&w=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rcmrfo_SB0

As I've understood, only 3GB minus video memory is available because the operative system is 32-bit!

The computer with the SSD could be a better choice, as it performance-wise would be compatible with L5 and I would benefit from that meanwhile. But I think I'll bid a slightly lower price! I'm a bit unsure though whether the computer with SSD would be worth the price? And I bet computer are much cheaper in the US!

EDIT: Now the seller of the computer with SSD called me, and said that he can deliver the computer with Windows installed on both the SSD and the the HDD. I didn't manage to bid a lower price. The HDD is new 7200 rpm and has Windows 7 installed. Now I sent an SMS to the sellers cellular phone asking him if he can install Windows 8 on the SSD instead of Windows 7. I'll get the computer on monday afternoon. Now he replied the SMS and said he can't install W8.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/383508#Comment_383508

I bought the laptop with an SSD early this morning (we were unable
to meet yesterday). It has a small 1366x768 pixel monitor. I didn't get a lower price, but the
seller worked with computers (surveillance cam installation), and had
worked with computer since the ago of 14/15. He is now 40. He gave
me a warranty on the SSD (which was unused in a sealed box) and installed
Windows 7 and the Samsung-specific functionality on it for me. He said that if I need to re-install Windows 7
any time in the future he'll send me it on a USB drive.

I installed Logos on the SSD, but set temporary files folder, documents,
and virtual memory to the HDD which is connected with USB 2.0. 16 GB virtual memory with the largest possible file allocation size, should be enough for good! I set the Logos program
scaling to 120% and the font to 90%

The seller said that this model is good because the manufacturer soon after changed the CPU type to
Celeron which is much worse than the Core 2 Duo this one has. He also said that this laptop would have cost ~$1900 as new if it would have been manufactured with an SSD back then. He bought 25 of them, and he got them sold quickly. This last one was unused for the last half a year. The latest antivirus he used on it is Microsoft Security Essentials.

So the speed of the CPU shouldn't affect the performance of Logos? What about responsiveness? When I used Logos in April-August 2012, from what I remember now of my experience three things annoyed me:
1) Closing tabs was slow
2) Some of the searches were slow
3) When typing a search my search-string didn't show up fast on the monitor
The computer was generally slow.

With my setup, what causes the most wear to the drives?

What of the following makes the greatest difference in speed?:
Larger HDD

Higher GHz

Newer CPU (for example Intel i3 dualcore)?

13" monitor instead of 11"

A larger computer doesn't bother me at Church and in the commuter-train (the only local-area trains over here with a socket for passengers to use electricity, the most typical distance I travel with it is 13-16 minutes)

Newer CPUs due tend to preform faster
[...]
when I tried out a macbook Air with SSD (all airs have SSD) even though it was only a 1.8 GHz machine Logos seemed to work much faster, even with less memory and slower processor speed.

-Dan

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/399683#Comment_399683

Hi Uxix

I think that now you have made your purchase you will get more help in the windows forum.