New Feature in Logos 5: Popular Highlights
Comments
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Bob had a great answer and wonderful points. Nobody's privacy is being invaded, nobody is giving up anything. People are so crazy over "privacy" to the point that is unhealthy. By the way, do you realize you won't find the "Right to Privacy" anywhere in the Constitution (for those of us in the States)? We have just been told that is what we deserve and we think it applies to everything everywhere.
Now we are talking about highlights for goodness sake. A Highlight! What is so personal about a highlight that is so terrible for everyone to see that not only you, but 5, 10, 100 other people found the same thing to be helpful? This argument about "personal data" and "Permission" has gone too far. If you sync you give them your data and thus permission to use it the way I see it.
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David ... you will soon have an interesting future. Poor Dominick can't delete his prayers; they now belong to Logos. It's really theologically amusing. Someone should write a new paper on this, it's so interesting (and devoid of Christianity).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Once again, if you don't want someone to have your info, don't give it to them. It is that simple.
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By the way, from the EULA:
"but may examine it programmatically for anonymous statistical purposes" Popular highlights should fall under this provision. End of story.
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David ... I do exactly that. I use Libronix for all personal data. I saw this train leaving the station 3 years ago. And 'by the way' Bob's not done with your data. You will soon see more. Enjoy the ride.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
However, if getting this info is slowing the performance of Logos on my computer , then I would ask a "rethink" until Logos has dealt with more of the speed memory leak issues.
[Y]
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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To all: You may, or may not, already know this but: Just about everything you have ever "posted" on the internet is still there. If you do a search by your name, your "handle" , your initials etc. you may be pretty shocked at what you find.
The internet is not a private place, our conversations become part of the digital domain just as our browsing habits do.
I am concerned about information gathering as much as the next guy, however, I also understand that internet and privacy are not things that go together well.
In a couple of years, I will still be able to do a search and find this very conversation come up in those search results.
Blessings
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Bob Pritchett said:
Again, we're listening to the feedback and will make whatever changes are necessary to keep our user base happy -- we aren't trying to antagonize anyone -- but I'd like to make sure we've discussed both the good and the bad about this.
Hi Bob
I think a big part of the problem here is that you are releasing these 'Community' and other Features and then taking feedback while defending the implementation. I appreciate that you want to develop the software and that you can't please everyone but knowing what a touchy bunch we can be it might make sense to get some feedback on some of the ideas a bit earlier. I know that you prefer to avoid a roadmap but a better indication of what might be coming in the next couple of updates would get some of these conversations started earlier and might make them a little less adversarial.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Bob Pritchett said:
You can opt out, by running the software without an Internet connection. But it sounds like you're really asking for is the ability to opt-out at a more fine-grained level: you want this Internet-enabled function, but not that one.
[...]
Bob thank you for taking the time and effort to reply and address users' concerns.
I have been looking at this thread recently and would like to comment generally, and then specifically to some points you raise.
Firstly, I would not (meaning you should not) equate/associate Logos with companies like Google — seriously. Google, and companies like it, do not have the same ethics and foundation as (I hope/trust) Logos has. To companies like Google you and I are not their customers, but their product. I don't say this to 'Google bash' but to address the reality that they don't really care, directly, about the people who use Google search or whatever, they provide a service to get information on people, which they then sell to their real customers — advertisers. To that end they will, wherever they can, enrich themselves by finding out as much as possible about their 'product', and will push what is permissible under the law, and what is ethical, unless someone else pushes back.
Of course we all realise that Logos also is a business, but we hope and trust that it is guided by an extra dimension to other companies — giving glory to our Lord — and is not solely driven by commercial realities and that we are your customers.
Having put that on the table — looking at some specific points:
- Making a statement like "You can opt out, by running the software without an Internet connection" is, really, ill-advised and actually is not practical. Especially now, given the design of Logos 5, an Internet connection is a hard necessity. I say ill-advised because if someone at Logos gives that advice and a user turns off 'Use Internet' in preferences that would mean (I believe) that their information is not being backed up/synced. What would happen, their reaction be, if/when they wanted to get that data only to be told that it did not exist because their use Internet setting was turned off. Can we agree that it was a mistake to state this.
- Regarding "Google [...] the data they report to advertisers on impressions vs. clicks, etc." the big difference is between anonymous data versus personally identifiable data. What Google (and all companies like it) want is personally identifiable data. They want to know that YOU specifically are looking at, for example, that new car versus being able to say generally that 20% of people in city "A" versus 60% in city "B" are looking at that new car. They really want to know that — very badly. So badly that they are willing to sail close to the wind of breaking the law to do so. And we're talking about the law, let's forget about the morality of what they are doing.
- On the point of "Other than a "don't track me!" instinct (I have it too!), what is the actual harm of this collective data mining?" well that can be a subjective question. What is more important than this question, and which is the basis of the 'gut reaction' some people are having in this thread, is the fact that it appears that there was no notification that this personal (personal, because it is personal before it becomes collective) data mining was being done. If I am mistaken in this understanding then I am happy to be corrected.
- Regarding (directly identifiable) data retention, the issue with the Internet is that data never goes away — as many people find out to their dismay. It is so much an issue that Eric Schmidt (who, personally, I react strongly to) the former CEO of Google actually said once, in public, that people should be allowed to change their names to distance themselves from things they have done in the past (and which Google has recorded no doubt). So, given that information on the Internet is like a Pandora's box (once it's out there it's hard to put it back) some of us prefer not to, as much as possible, not to 'open that box' in the first place.
So what to do moving forward? You will note that I have not said anything yet about the value of the popular highlights and other new 'social sharing' features of Logos 5. Without judging the benefit of these options, and in certain areas I can see their value, what I personally would see as being the best way to address this is:
- Separate the functionality of the new 'social' features from both the (necessary) Internet connection features of Logos (syncing, downloading etc.) and the 'Send Feedback' feature for sending back information about usage of the application. I have my 'Send Feedback' set to Anonymous — happy to help Logos improve the software.
- Make an option in Preferences along the lines of 'Use Social Features'. Some people don't want to see any of the social features — they're simply not interested and they find it detracts from using the software as a tool for Bible study.
- Make an option in Preferences like 'Share Information for Social Features'. Now... some people might say "if you don't want to share information then you shouldn't expect to get the benefit of shared information, it's not fair" and that could be a valid position to take. It should be discussed with users.
I trust this can help in supporting some clear discussion on this point.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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David Taylor Jr said:
Once again, if you don't want someone to have your info, don't give it to them. It is that simple.
But we don't have a choice. If I highlight a passage in a book the data is synchronised and can be analysed. To avoid this I either cripple the program with Internet Off or stop using highlighting. The new community model is a long way from the paradigm that I originally bought into which was simply having my books on my computer. I started using Logos because it was like real books only better. If I highlight passages in a real book on my bookshelf you can only see them if I loan the book to you this leaves me in control of the sharing process. The Logos program that I originally purchased had the same paradigm only I had to loan you my computer with my software installation.
Like Mark, I am not actually bothered about Logos analysing this data, my issue is the way that the data is being used, at least I can, and have, turn off popular highlights now I'm waiting for the same courtesy for the community ratings. Ultimately I want to be able to configure ALL of these display features off with a single setting, they do not interest me and I do not want them.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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David Mitchell said:
"Popular" is relative to the number of highlights made in the book itself. It varies from resource to resource, although we do have an absolute minimum threshold in place.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong....I am running Logos 5.0a SR and I do not see this option.
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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Pastor Michael Huffman said:David Mitchell said:
"Popular" is relative to the number of highlights made in the book itself. It varies from resource to resource, although we do have an absolute minimum threshold in place.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong....I am running Logos 5.0a SR and I do not see this option.
It is not currently available in Bibles - do you see it in non-Bible resources?
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Patrick S. said:
Separate the functionality of the new 'social' features from both the (necessary) Internet connection features of Logos (syncing, downloading etc.) and the 'Send Feedback' feature for sending back information about usage of the application. I have my 'Send Feedback' set to Anonymous — happy to help Logos improve the software.
Make an option in Preferences along the lines of 'Use Social Features'. Some people don't want to see any of the social features — they're simply not interested and they find it detracts from using the software as a tool for Bible study.
Make an option in Preferences like 'Share Information for Social Features'. Now... some people might say "if you don't want to share information then you shouldn't expect to get the benefit of shared information, it's not fair" and that could be a valid position to take. It should be discussed with users.[Y]
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Graham Criddle said:Pastor Michael Huffman said:David Mitchell said:
"Popular" is relative to the number of highlights made in the book itself. It varies from resource to resource, although we do have an absolute minimum threshold in place.
Perhaps I am doing something wrong....I am running Logos 5.0a SR and I do not see this option.
It is not currently available in Bibles - do you see it in non-Bible resources?
I do not Graham
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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Graham Owen said:David Taylor Jr said:
Once again, if you don't want someone to have your info, don't give it to them. It is that simple.
But we don't have a choice. If I highlight a passage in a book the data is synchronised and can be analysed. To avoid this I either cripple the program with Internet Off or stop using highlighting. The new community model is a long way from the paradigm that I originally bought into which was simply having my books on my computer. I started using Logos because it was like real books only better. If I highlight passages in a real book on my bookshelf you can only see them if I loan the book to you this leaves me in control of the sharing process. The Logos program that I originally purchased had the same paradigm only I had to loan you my computer with my software installation.
Like Mark, I am not actually bothered about Logos analysing this data, my issue is the way that the data is being used, at least I can, and have, turn off popular highlights now I'm waiting for the same courtesy for the community ratings. Ultimately I want to be able to configure ALL of these display features off with a single setting, they do not interest me and I do not want them.
Logos has been forward about their data mining since the EULA of L4. This is why I don't understand the outcry. They told all of us they were doing it, most of us just didn't care to read it.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Again, we're listening to the feedback and will make whatever changes are necessary to keep our user base happy -- we aren't trying to antagonize anyone -- but I'd like to make sure we've discussed both the good and the bad about this.
[Y][Y]
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People keep pointing to the EULA as if it has some significance. When the investment (your books) only works with the company's software, then the EULA is simply fluff. You'll use whatever the company wishes. Our overseas Logos-users quietly swallowed the EULA-pill with Logos4. Even those in the deep dark jungles of Africa.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Patrick S. said:
Some people don't want to see any of the social features — they're simply not interested and they find it detracts from using the software as a tool for Bible study.
That's me!
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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Alan Macgregor said:Patrick S. said:
Some people don't want to see any of the social features — they're simply not interested and they find it detracts from using the software as a tool for Bible study.
That's me!
Then turn them off. [;)]
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Graham Owen said:
The new community model is a long way from the paradigm that I originally bought into which was simply having my books on my computer. I started using Logos because it was like real books only better.
That's the Logos Bible Software I bought into. It's the only Logos Bible Software that I'm interested in.
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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As I have been reading this thread there is a lot of discussion about EULA but I don't know what that is. Perhaps this is because I'm Canadian. Can someone provide a quick overview?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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End-User Licence Agreement (EULA) is the licensing agreement that we agreed to when we first bought Logos.
Every blessing
Alan
BTW I'm Scottish, Bruce.
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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Alan Macgregor said:
End-User Licence Agreement (EULA) is the licensing agreement that we agreed to when we first bought Logos.
Every blessing
Alan
BTW I'm Scottish, Bruce.
Thanks Alan. You have to love acronyms!
With a name like Macgregor I knew that you at least had Scottish roots! I have some Scottish roots myself.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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When I hover over the ? icon for "Send Feedback" it CLEARLY states
"None: Logos 5 will not gather any information"
I kinda take that at face value - "ANY information" is "ANY information" - that to me includes information about what I highlight.
Have I misunderstood?
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Hey fellews:
I am trying to get an answer...I do not see the popular hightlighting in any of my resources. Running Logos 5.0a SR-1
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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David Taylor Jr said:
Logos has been forward about their data mining since the EULA of L4. This is why I don't understand the outcry. They told all of us they were doing it, most of us just didn't care to read it.
Good point, I can't remember the last time that I read the EULA having spent the last 16 plus years investing in Logos. I guess that's a pretty naive thing to say!
Why the outcry? Simple, just because its covered by the EULA does not mean that the long term users have to like it.
The problem for Logos with users like me is that as we have too much invested in the platform to leave but we do have a set of expectations set some years ago and whilst they want to keep us happy so we carry on buying additional resources they also want to develop the product to attract a new generation of users.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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DMB said:
People keep pointing to the EULA as if it has some significance. When the investment (your books) only works with the company's software, then the EULA is simply fluff. You'll use whatever the company wishes.
[Y]
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Pastor Michael Huffman said:
I do not Graham
It may not be turned on for all users… I know that they were doing a soft roll out.
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Pastor Michael Huffman said:
I am trying to get an answer...I do not see the popular hightlighting in any of my resources. Running Logos 5.0a SR-1
Try looking in Fifty Reasons Why Jesus Came To Die by John Piper - this is the one that I used to disable this.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Pick a well known book like Morning and Evening by Spurgeon. The
popular highlighting is in light grey. Also make sure you have the
"popular highlighting" box checked under visual filters.
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alabama24 said:
It may not be turned on for all users… I know that they were doing a soft roll out.
This is part of the problem, it was so soft it was unannounced...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
This is part of the problem, it was so soft it was unannounced...
It was announced: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/61098.aspx
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Announcements in the same thread as the thread being critical of no announcements doesn't count. It has to be another thread.
This rule doesn't apply if the announcement implies availability when it's a soft rollout and therefore not available (thus not really being announced). I still haven't seen an example. I'm afraid to update over the weekend.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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alabama24 said:
It was announced: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/61098.aspx
Hi A. did you see my (long) comment/post? Any comment/thoughts? Do you see the issues with this for some people?
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Graham Owen said:
I think a big part of the problem here is that you are releasing these 'Community' and other Features and then taking feedback while defending the implementation.
Good point.
Because this thread is getting so long, I'll post a "roadmap" on a new thread.
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Patrick S. said:
Separate the functionality of the new 'social' features
There are two kinds of 'social' features in Logos; ones where we analyze your data for stats, and ones where we feed analyzed data back to you. You can already turn off the "fed back" popular highlights by turning the filter off; you'll soon be able to turn off community tags and ratings that way, too.
The features where we analyze synced data -- like computing the popular highlights -- are in a way harder to opt out of. Because you don't "send us data" for this feature -- we just run an analysis of the data you're already sending us for sync purposes. For you to "opt out" completely you would have to "turn off Internet" access for the product.
Or, ironically, we'd have to store 'more' information -- we'd need to record your ID to be skipped in the statistical analysis. (In some of the statistical analysis we are working with records that don't have user ID's attached, so we'd have to start storing user ID's with those records in order to check them against the list to not use in the analysis!)
For those who'd like a geeky example... with popular highlighting we're running an analysis of the synced highlights from everyone's note files. You aren't sending us more data for popular highlighting, we're just analyzing the data already synced. (It's a MASSIVE amount of data.) Software scanned the database once, and now runs new scans on new content, finding highlights and essentially incrementing a counter on every character in a book if it's included in a highlight. We aren't even copying the highlights out -- we're taking counts. Imagine highlights are capital letters:
User 1: the BIG RED TREE was cut down
User 2: the big RED tree was CUT down
Popular: 000011112221111100000011100000
Result: RED was highlighted by 2 users
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Bob Pritchett said:
You can already turn off the "fed back" popular highlights by turning the filter off; you'll soon be able to turn off community tags and ratings that way, too.
Funny, when I first heard about the community ratings and similar features, I didn't like the idea. After all, what do I care what other people think. Then, I realized two things: (1) that was my pride talking, and (2) what other people are thinking is like many other tools...sometimes there's a good use for it.
Now, I've come up with a couple good reasons to see community highlights, ratings, etc. And the community tags is as useful as any reviews feature one might find on Amazon-dot-com, etc.
As I've written elsewhere, the community ratings feature will, over time, trend to a rating of between 2.5 to 3.0 due to a well-documented statistical anomaly, secondary to the fact that no majority of users will use the ratings in the same way. Even so, there can be some useful purposes for the tool.
Fortunately, as Bob notes above, Logos is making the tools user-selectable rather than deleting them when a few folks complain. I recommend the rest of us be a little more patient with these things rather than just do the knee-jerk dance.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Bob Pritchett said:
For those who'd like a geeky example...
Nice explanation Bob. And while I don't expect to make much use of community highlights feature, I do think it is a useful addition to our tools.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Patrick S. said:
Do you see the issues with this for some people?
Yes. One of my fellow MVP's convinced me that there are legitimate reasons why some may not want this feature. My comment that there was an announcement wasn't meant to comment on the value or propriety of the feature (personally I do like it), but just to point out that there was an announcement of the feature… (I wasn't speaking about an announcement of the data mining). If you follow my posts back, you will see that I was originally trying to explain why one user may not have been seeing this feature in his installation. I was half speculating on a soft roll out when Dave said it was unannounced. If he was writing about the feature, he was mistaken (this very thread was the announcement). If he was writing about the data mining, I think he was correct.
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Why don't you ask him? Better to talk to him than about him. [:)]alabama24 said:I was half speculating on a soft roll out when Dave said it was unannounced. If he was writing about the feature, he was mistaken (this very thread was the announcement). If he was writing about the data mining, I think he was correct.
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Schezic said:
Better to talk to him than about him.
Sheesh. Sometimes I can't ever win. [:S]
I wasn't talking about Dave. I was answering Patrick, who was commenting on my comments to Dave. I DID talk directly to Dave:
alabama24 said:Dave Hooton said:This is part of the problem, it was so soft it was unannounced...
It was announced: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/61098.aspx
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I'm sorry, but I just can't keep silent anymore. I follow the forums for many of the applications that I use on a regular basis and Logos users are, without exception, the most whiny and grumpy of any userbase I've ever seen. This includes plenty of buggy applications, so it can't be chalked up to Logos simply being worse software. Logos users aren't content to simply point out bugs (as is perfectly justified) but instead insist on calling into question the very moral fiber and good intentions of every single new feature that's released. I've worked as a support rep for two technology companies, and while I've had plenty of bad experiences neither userbase has had such an inflated sense of entitlement as this one. It's shameful.
Social features like Popular Highlights have been around for years on the Kindle and other e-readers, and it is universally accepted by privacy advocates as NOT an infringement on user privacy. Anonymized, aggregated data like this is no more infringing on your privacy than is a website reporting that a certain percentage of its users run Windows.
I understand that this is a sweeping generalization. There are plenty of users here – among MVPs, regular posters, and newbies alike – who have the best intentions and whose posts are quite useful. But the general tenor of the discussions here has been appalling to me lately.
I'm just glad this forum is populated almost exclusively by Christians, because the impression we would give of the body of Christ to a non-believer is downright scary.
EDIT: I should add that nowhere else is the response so thorough and prompt from the management and development teams as here. Whatever their failings, Bob and the entire Logos team deserve props for their commitment to dealing with customer feedback directly and very quickly implementing so many of our suggestions.
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Probably you were thinking of Facebook?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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alabama24 said:
I was half speculating on a soft roll out when Dave said it was unannounced. If he was writing about the feature, he was mistaken (this very thread was the announcement). If he was writing about the data mining, I think he was correct.
The "feature" first came to the light in the 5.0a beta when we found it was responsible for crashes when scrolling in a couple of resources. I can't find it in the 5.0a Release Notes but there was this exchange on Nov 19. I also discovered that community ratings had been introduced via a serious bug in the 5.0 beta -- no announcements!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Maybe we Logos users expect and demand more because we spent more time and money on products and services from Logos than any other software product ever produced ...
I for one wish to be able to TURN OFF the various cloud and sharing features, yet keep internet on for updates and the like.
In general, I turn off every possible feedback control I can find in any software I use. No reason - I just want to turn it off.
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Mitchell said:
Logos users are, without exception, the most whiny and grumpy of any userbase I've ever seen.
Mitchell said:Whatever their failings, Bob and the entire Logos team deserve props for their commitment to dealing with customer feedback directly and very quickly implementing so many of our suggestions.
[Y]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Bob Pritchett said:
Because this thread is getting so long, I'll post a "roadmap" on a new thread.
Thanks Bob
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Mitchell said:
I'm sorry, but I just can't keep silent anymore. I follow the forums for many of the applications that I use on a regular basis and Logos users are, without exception, the most whiny and grumpy of any userbase I've ever seen. This includes plenty of buggy applications, so it can't be chalked up to Logos simply being worse software. Logos users aren't content to simply point out bugs (as is perfectly justified) but instead insist on calling into question the very moral fiber and good intentions of every single new feature that's released. I've worked as a support rep for two technology companies, and while I've had plenty of bad experiences neither userbase has had such an inflated sense of entitlement as this one. It's shameful.
Social features like Popular Highlights have been around for years on the Kindle and other e-readers, and it is universally accepted by privacy advocates as NOT an infringement on user privacy. Anonymized, aggregated data like this is no more infringing on your privacy than is a website reporting that a certain percentage of its users run Windows.
I understand that this is a sweeping generalization. There are plenty of users here – among MVPs, regular posters, and newbies alike – who have the best intentions and whose posts are quite useful. But the general tenor of the discussions here has been appalling to me lately.
I'm just glad this forum is populated almost exclusively by Christians, because the impression we would give of the body of Christ to a non-believer is downright scary.
EDIT: I should add that nowhere else is the response so thorough and prompt from the management and development teams as here. Whatever their failings, Bob and the entire Logos team deserve props for their commitment to dealing with customer feedback directly and very quickly implementing so many of our suggestions.
[Y]
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Mitchell said:
Logos users are, without exception, the most whiny and grumpy of any userbase I've ever seen.
Mitchell said:I'm just glad this forum is populated almost exclusively by Christians, because the impression we would give of the body of Christ to a non-believer is downright scary.
Mitchell said:I should add that nowhere else is the response so thorough and prompt from the management and development teams as here. Whatever their failings, Bob and the entire Logos team deserve props for their commitment to dealing with customer feedback directly and very quickly implementing so many of our suggestions.
I agree with everything you said. Just wanted to highlight these points. Thank you for this post.
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I guess everyone has a different perspective. My problem is with the whiny, grumpy users that whine about the whiny, grumpy users. At least the latter periodically have a real problem. Obviously I'm a card-carying member of the former group.
Where would Christianity be if the Christians were not whacking the other Christians as much as possible. It's just too fearful to even imagine.
I remember early on in my 'forum' career, I carefully counted '70 times 7'. Goodness, was I happy, when I got to 70 times 7 plus 1. Wooo hoooo!!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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