Announcing Logos Mobile Education
Comments
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Thanks, Dale, for the larger scope of information. I am getting excited and looking forward to what will be offered at the end of the summer. I have completed my Certificate of Graduate Studies at Dallas Theological and have been trying to decide what to do next. I will never likely ever work fulltime in ministry. I am still practicing law and have just taken on a protege to whom I have committed at least 2 or more years. Then there is the cost of courses at DTS; $1500+ per course. It gets expensive. You may be offering the level of courses I want at a more affordable price. At least that is my hope. The concept of being a part of a community of like-minded "study partners" is very exciting, too.
Just one question. Will potential students be able to identify the particular "bent" of the lecturer/professor from his/her bio? I tend to be very conservative and have thoroughly enjoyed the wonderful professors at DTS who are all very conservative and subscribe to the theological statement of the institution.
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Jennifer A. Broussard said:
Just one question. Will potential students be able to identify the particular "bent" of the lecturer/professor from his/her bio?
We do NOT want to have to try to GUESS the ""BENT"" we want it in cold clear black and white LARGE PRINT BOLD (and maybe underlined).
And will there be classes for all ""BENT""s?
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David Ames said:
We do NOT want to have to try to GUESS the ""BENT"" we want it in cold clear black and white LARGE PRINT BOLD (and maybe underlined).
And will there be classes for all ""BENT""s?
i agree, but the professor and his place of teaching will tell you volumes about the "bent"
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Interesting comments. Thanks! I will try to address a couple of issues raised and share more of our philosophy.
Logos Moble Ed is designed to offer an efficient way to learn academic and vocational skills in an environment which will be used every day in ministry. It is an ambitious project because it assumes a new "normal" ministry working environment that is digital dependent, or better stated, digitally enhanced. This is a biblical studies program that assumes that the student will own a large Logos digital library, be competent in using Logos Bible Software and will continue to use the software everyday in ministry as part of a "normal" working environment. It represents a departure from the segmented life of "living and studying at school" and then "working in real life ministry." In many cases these two life segments are so disconnected that it is hard to believe the first has anything to do with the second. School is very different than ministry. This is also true of the environment of ministry. If you use Logos every day, you know that school did not really prepare you for this digital working environment.
So our concept once again is to study in the same environment in which you will work, so that you are not only permanently connected to your education, but you are also continuing to learn both content and independent study skills every day as you apply what you learn. Our focus is not on attaining credential or degrees. That is the role of institutions. Our goal is to build confidence in exegesis and develop skill and comfort with digital resources.
The Knox program is unrelated to Logos Mobile Ed, but as someone suggested, Knox professors could find their way into our Mobile Ed courses and there is nothing to prevent Knox from using Mobile Ed courses as part of their program, but there is no contractual obligation to connect the two programs.
As to the bent of professors you really need to do your own assessment. If I described any professor's bent my assessment would itself be colored by my own perspective. I like the suggestion of examining the doctrinal position of the school. While not a perfect reflection of any individual's position it at least demonstrates some common ground held by faculty. Our goal is to present a broad range of faculty. Why? We want to accommodate as many of our users as is practical. You may also want to better understand both those thing with which you agree and disagree. It helps you understand and minister to the varied backgrounds represented in the typical local church.
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Thanks, Dale. Your wisdom and clarity are always appreciated. Your expanding definition of this tool makes me more and more excited about it. Cannot wait for the roll out.
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That was a very helpful explanation. [Y][Y]Dale Pritchett said:I will try to address a couple of issues raised and share more of our philosophy.
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Dale Pritchett said:
Our goal is to present a broad range of faculty. Why? We want to accommodate as many of our users as is practical.
Good strategy.
Dale Pritchett said:You may also want to better understand both those thing with which you agree and disagree.
Can we disagree with the professor and still pass the course?
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Jack Caviness said:Dale Pritchett said:
Our goal is to present a broad range of faculty. Why? We want to accommodate as many of our users as is practical.
Good strategy.
Dale Pritchett said:You may also want to better understand both those thing with which you agree and disagree.
Can we disagree with the professor and still pass the course?
You certainly can when you take the course from us. I imagine you can do that with most institutions also.
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Dale Pritchett said:
[A] This is a biblical studies program that assumes that the student will own a large Logos digital library, be competent in using Logos Bible Software
A) How LARGE a library? Silver? Master? Gold? Capstone? Platinum? Diamond? Portfolio? The soon coming Orthodox or Reformed?
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David Ames said:Dale Pritchett said:
This is a biblical studies program that assumes that the student will own a large Logos digital library, be competent in using Logos Bible Software A) How LARGE a library? Silver? Master? Gold? Capstone? Platinum? Diamond? Portfolio? The soon coming Orthodox or Reformed?
The courses are tagged to Platinum 5 with additional tags to suggested works outside Platinum. The mandate to the editors is to insure that the courses can be fully completed within the boundaries of Platinum plus any additional reference work that might be a specific to a course requirement. At first that sounds contradictory but it is not. Core curriculum is covered with Platinum. Specific electives however, may require specialized books just as would be the case in a traditional classroom environment. For example if you are taking an elective on Dead Sea Scroll materials or another topic like pastoral counseling, you will find these required works listed with the course descriptions or even built into the cost of the course. We have not yet made that final determination.
Let's face it. There is a huge body of resources available beyond Platinum. We encourage the editors to include suggestions with links to additional readings throughout the Logos ecosystem. Many users have very large libraries that will receive these links already and others may be looking for ideas for additional titles within their area of interest.
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This sounds really exciting, can't wait to see it roll out. It's just the kind of "formality" I am looking for, my own pace but with some challenge and meat to it.
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Dale, will our credits for successfully completing a course be captured reliably somewhere, like on Logos servers, so if one day a seminary comes out with a degree program requiring completion of courses A through Z, and I completed A through F a year earlier, that could be counted if they chose to (I realize they may not wish to grant credit but I was more wondering is my transcript kept somewhere in case)? Or will they have no way of knowing that I already completed the course(s)?
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Don Awalt said:
Dale, will our credits for successfully completing a course be captured reliably somewhere, like on Logos servers, so if one day a seminary comes out with a degree program requiring completion of courses A through Z, and I completed A through F a year earlier, that could be counted if they chose to (I realize they may not wish to grant credit but I was more wondering is my transcript kept somewhere in case)? Or will they have no way of knowing that I already completed the course(s)?
Don, these are good questions. Our plan is to offer formal testing at some point in the future. When that comes to pass, yes we will both store examination results as well as full student transcripts for all courses you take. The first release of the product will have self testing built in to monitor personal progress. Formal testing doesn't make much sense outside of an institutional setting and there is a big question as to whether any institution would just take our courses and exams un-modified and grant full credit. Only time will tell.
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The only problem I see with that happening is that the professor filming the video will not be available for interaction and I am assuming there will not be any graded assignments. Therefore, I doubt any institution will grant you credit unless the courses are embedded into their course with a professor giving additional oversight to your work. Of course I don't know anything about the courses that hasn't been posted on this forum and online learning opportunities are constantly changing, I just don't want you to count on something that seems unlikely to happen.Don Awalt said:Dale, will our credits for successfully completing a course be captured reliably somewhere, like on Logos servers, so if one day a seminary comes out with a degree program requiring completion of courses A through Z, and I completed A through F a year earlier, that could be counted if they chose to (I realize they may not wish to grant credit but I was more wondering is my transcript kept somewhere in case)? Or will they have no way of knowing that I already completed the course(s)?
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Sorry, we just cross posted. Formal testing makes future credit much more viable.Dale Pritchett said:Don, these are good questions. Our plan is to offer formal testing at some point in the future. When that comes to pass, yes we will both store examination results as well as full student transcripts for all courses you take. The first release of the product will have self testing built in to monitor personal progress. Formal testing doesn't make much sense outside of an institutional setting and there is a big question as to whether any institution would just take our courses and exams un-modified and grant full credit. Only time will tell.
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Nothing really preventing the professor filming the video subsequently interacting with students via a forum or on-line chat (except time committment and availability... ).
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Kevin Maples said:David Ames said:
We do NOT want to have to try to GUESS the ""BENT"" we want it in cold clear black and white LARGE PRINT BOLD (and maybe underlined).
And will there be classes for all ""BENT""s?
i agree, but the professor and his place of teaching will tell you volumes about the "bent"
True that the place of teaching will assist in knowing that. Also, a short bio about the professor, as well as even a possible interview between Logos and the professor, would also help in knowing more about the professor, his philosophy of teaching, his "bent", etc.
Additionally, I agree that Logos should offer a broad range of "bents" on teachers. Not only will it appeal to more customers, but I'd even be willing to take courses from both teachers "bent" toward and away from my beliefs. Help me to expand and broaden my knowledge of what's all out there.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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Dale Pritchett said:Jack Caviness said:Dale Pritchett said:
Our goal is to present a broad range of faculty. Why? We want to accommodate as many of our users as is practical.
Good strategy.
Dale Pritchett said:You may also want to better understand both those thing with which you agree and disagree.
Can we disagree with the professor and still pass the course?
You certainly can when you take the course from us. I imagine you can do that with most institutions also.
I'm sure that's how it'll work as well. Only a couple of tidbits I'll throw in here.
A: On certain tests, you may be asked to answer the tests concerning the lecture notes and reading material and from the point of view of the class. For example, I took an Eschatology class at Luther Rice. Since both LRU and the professor are premill pretrib (so am I), the final exam said to please answer questions along the thinking of a premill pretrib point of view. While there were some in the class who held other views on Eschatology, when test time come, obviously they thought along those lines in order to passed their exams, and utilized discussion boards and papers to state their differing views instead.
B: In "certain" assignments, you could run into a professor who may "count off" a few points if you vary from his "bent" in assignments. Not enough to flunk the course, but simply because he's not going to view your assignment as "correct" when in reality, you may just be differing with him on it. Good example of this was at LRU, I took a Bible Study Methods course. The professor's views on interpretation and application were vastly different from mine. Where he believed I would "allegorize" the text, I believed it was merely "modern day application" (I felt he had serious issues with discerning between interpretation and application, he of course differed). Well, I was counted off a few points on an assignment because he felt I was "allegorizing" the text when I believe I was simply "applying" the text. I still passed the course and still made a good grade on the assignment, but I still got counted off a few points over it.
So it's not a serious issue, but it's just a couple pointers I'd keep in mind.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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David Ames said:Dale Pritchett said: This is a biblical studies program that assumes that the student will own a large Logos digital library, be competent in using Logos Bible Software
A) How LARGE a library? Silver? Master? Gold? Capstone? Platinum? Diamond? Portfolio? The soon coming Orthodox or Reformed?
Dale already said Platinum which is a good move. I would have said at least the L5 replacement to Scholar's (Bronze?). Most seminaries require at least Scholar's for the serious student.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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Kevin Maples said:
The only problem I see with that happening is that the professor filming the video will not be available for interaction and I am assuming there will not be any graded assignments. Therefore, I doubt any institution will grant you credit unless the courses are embedded into their course with a professor giving additional oversight to your work. Of course I don't know anything about the courses that hasn't been posted on this forum and online learning opportunities are constantly changing, I just don't want you to count on something that seems unlikely to happen.Don Awalt said:Dale, will our credits for successfully completing a course be captured reliably somewhere, like on Logos servers, so if one day a seminary comes out with a degree program requiring completion of courses A through Z, and I completed A through F a year earlier, that could be counted if they chose to (I realize they may not wish to grant credit but I was more wondering is my transcript kept somewhere in case)? Or will they have no way of knowing that I already completed the course(s)?
Most assignments could be quizzes and exams that are either multiple choice, true/false, etc. Stuff that could be easily graded electronically without professor interaction.
If this really took off, seminaries who'd use it could bring in graders or have some way to submit assignments to the professor or some form of real person grader who could grade and return assignments based on the professor's syllabus and assessment guidelines.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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David J. Wilson said:
Nothing really preventing the professor filming the video subsequently interacting with students via a forum or on-line chat (except time committment and availability... ).
Professors could utilize FaithLife for this. Be able to at-a-glance see interaction on FaithLife groups and when/if they feel they need to chime in about something on their time schedule, they could.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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I understand that it is very possible, but from what I am reading on the forum, I don't know that professor interaction is the model. It looks like videos will be recorded and then we will access them like books.David J. Wilson said:Nothing really preventing the professor filming the video subsequently interacting with students via a forum or on-line chat (except time committment and availability... ).
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Dale, can you give us a ballpark idea of the range in price for these classes?
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Nathan Parker said:David J. Wilson said:
Nothing really preventing the professor filming the video subsequently interacting with students via a forum or on-line chat (except time committment and availability... ).
Professors could utilize FaithLife for this. Be able to at-a-glance see interaction on FaithLife groups and when/if they feel they need to chime in about something on their time schedule, they could.
Maybe submit a note file for written assignments.
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Kevin Maples said:
Dale, can you give us a ballpark idea of the range in price for these classes?
Kevin Maples said:Dale, can you give us a ballpark idea of the range in price for these classes?
We are still working on the pricing because we are still working on the cost analysis. Our goal is to offer a superior learning experience and ongoing tools for ministry at at price that encourages you as a student and sustains us as a provider. At the same time we know this will not be affordable to everybody just as Logos is not affordable to everybody. It will be much more affordable than moving to another city, getting a new job and going to school, but is not going to be like purchasing a book. You can do that now for a lot less. When we sit in planning meetings we remind ourselves of our stated goal of keeping these courses in the target range of one quarter to one third of normal tuition costs for an equivalent course of study. This also gives an institution room to make use of these materials in their own DE programs. Having said that, we don't know what schools are going to do. We do know we will be offering a great education opportunity directly to Logos users. Over the course of the summer we will give you a lot more information.
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As Nathan suggested on a particular reply, I too think tying this into Faithlife would be great. I really like the potential of Faithlife, but it doesn't seem to have gotten traction yet. The more ways Faiithlife is tied in to Logos (optionally of course) lends itself to more chance that the community will build.
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Nathan Parker said:
In "certain" assignments, you could run into a professor who may "count off" a few points if you vary from his "bent" in assignments. Not enough to flunk the course, but simply because he's not going to view your assignment as "correct" when in reality, you may just be differing with him on it. Good example of this was at LRU, I took a Bible Study Methods course. The professor's views on interpretation and application were vastly different from mine. Where he believed I would "allegorize" the text, I believed it was merely "modern day application" (I felt he had serious issues with discerning between interpretation and application, he of course differed). Well, I was counted off a few points on an assignment because he felt I was "allegorizing" the text when I believe I was simply "applying" the text. I still passed the course and still made a good grade on the assignment, but I still got counted off a few points over it.
From my experience, this is really no different than taking a literature, history, english, or almost any arts course; to the extent the professor believes you have done a good job in critical thinking and expressing yourself, they grade you well. Every professor has different standards, we learn how to get along with them in the class or worst case drop it.
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Don Awalt said:Nathan Parker said:
In "certain" assignments, you could run into a professor who may "count off" a few points if you vary from his "bent" in assignments. Not enough to flunk the course, but simply because he's not going to view your assignment as "correct" when in reality, you may just be differing with him on it. Good example of this was at LRU, I took a Bible Study Methods course. The professor's views on interpretation and application were vastly different from mine. Where he believed I would "allegorize" the text, I believed it was merely "modern day application" (I felt he had serious issues with discerning between interpretation and application, he of course differed). Well, I was counted off a few points on an assignment because he felt I was "allegorizing" the text when I believe I was simply "applying" the text. I still passed the course and still made a good grade on the assignment, but I still got counted off a few points over it.
From my experience, this is really no different than taking a literature, history, english, or almost any arts course; to the extent the professor believes you have done a good job in critical thinking and expressing yourself, they grade you well. Every professor has different standards, we learn how to get along with them in the class or worst case drop it.
When I mark students essays, I'm glad when they disagree with me (and I think most seminary professors would say the same). It's boring marking essays where students just trot out what they hear in class.
However, remember that it's highly likely that I know almost all of the arguments against my own view pretty well, and have already rejected them. So if a student is going to take a view that's different from my own, they need have some pretty good arguments for doing so. If they do that successfully, they're going to get a very high mark, if they don't do that well, they're going to get slightly worse marks than they would have got if they took the same position as myself. If you say that the guy who teaches you is wrong, and all you've got to show for it are some insubstantial or half-baked arguments, he's right to feel a little aggrieved that you haven't been paying enough attention to the more substantial arguments that he's given in class.
In short, only disagree with your lecturer if you're confident you can demonstrate to him that your arguments for your view are at least as good as his arguments for his view.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks Dale, I think that gives us some idea for now.Dale Pritchett said:our stated goal of keeping these courses in the target range of one quarter to one third of normal tuition costs for an equivalent course of study.
After using Logos for about 2 years now, I believe it is very cheap when you consider what you are getting for your money.Dale Pritchett said:Logos is not affordable to everybody.
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Would it be to soon to ask for a rough listing of courses? I'm quite interested, especially in Biblical counseling (as a practicing counselor I always want to grow) and teacher, but I know there are many philosophies of counseling that I would not agree with at all. Just curious to see if this is something I can get excited about.
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