What is the Passage List designed to do and how is it helpful/useful? What do you personally use it for in L4?
I could see using to create a list of scriptures relevant on a certain topic. Kind of like creating my own topical Bible?
Could also be a good way to collect verse you want to memorize. Personally I will need it to print or export before it is extremely useful. For now it has its uses. For instance I could collect all the verses atonement into one passage list. and view them in various translations.
One way I have used passage lists in the past is to give people reference lists on certain subjects or topics. For example I have one that I have used for several years I give to those who have lost loved ones that list scriptures intended to bring them comfort, hope, peace, etc. With the capabilities of this new feature in L4 I am still considering all the ways it can be used.
In v3 I used verse lists for two things:
1. collecting related passages for a sermon (based on TSK) and organizing them in canonical order
2. collecting passages on a given topic/study.
I'm excited to see the list return to Logos. Just yesterday I was wishing the feature were present.
When you do a complex Morph search or Syntax search the search engine counts each feature of the search query as a hit so you can get many duplicate hits in one verse. A Passage list can be used to distill out all of the duplicate hits. Also, all these duplicate hits make it difficult to compare similar searches to see what a small adjustment in search terms made in the results, the ability to merge passage lists lets you find out how the results of two searches differ or are similar.
Doesn't the functionality of Passage Lists overlap with Clippings? Unless there is some feature of PL that has not yet been revealed or I haven't discovered, I think Clippings is actually more flexible. And, I would think that "sort" and "merge" as found in PL could easily be ported over to Clippings (and Notes). But beyond "sort" and "merge" I just don't see any big advantage of PL over Clippings.
I also like being able to save individual Clippings in whatever version I want ... not to mention the ability to add in non-scriptural quotes.
Doesn't the functionality of Passage Lists overlap with Clippings? Unless there is some feature of PL that has not yet been revealed or I haven't discovered, I think Clippings is actually more flexible. And, I would think that "sort" and "merge" as found in PL could easily be ported over to Clippings (and Notes). But beyond "sort" and "merge" I just don't see any big advantage of PL over Clippings. I also like being able to save individual Clippings in whatever version I want ... not to mention the ability to add in non-scriptural quotes.
ll that's missing is the ability to print them out so you can have them on the pulpit.
I don't think you have to worry about that functionality given all the complaining on the on the forum, I foresee a time when Logos has implemented so much printing functionality that the questions on the board will be "Why in the world would anyone want to print that?"
I have to disagree with you. Passage lists allows me to accumulate verse, view them in any combination of translations, and collect them, I'm guessing, from PDFs and Word Documents. So for instance you will be able to create your sermon manuscript, import it into the passage list, and have all your verses in the order they appear in your sermon. All that's missing is the ability to print them out so you can have them on the pulpit.
Granted, it will expand a Biblical reference and place it the PL file which is obviously conducive to sermon preparation and delivery. But, I guess what I am saying is, is that really such a big thing that an entirely new module needs to be added? I am not a programmer (at least not since lugging around boxes and boxes of IBM cards for Fortran/CSMP programs back in the 70's), but it would seem to me that these few items could easily be added to Clippings. But I defer to decisions of BP et al on points like this ... I merely am giving my feedback for their consideration.
By the way, when you say, "...view them in any combination of translations...", it appears to me that the PL version selection is global for the entire list. IOW, say I wanted to highlight a difference between a given ASV text and, say, the NIV, the current PL would give me ASV and NIV for ALL verses - which isn't conducive to sermon delivery. With Clippings I can add verses to my file in whatever version I want without the global aspect. (Hope that makes sense ... it did to me [;)])
By the way, when you say, "...view them in any combination of translations...", it appears to me that the PL version selection is global for the entire list. IOW, say I wanted to highlight a difference between a given ASV text and, say, the NIV, the current PL would give me ASV and NIV for ALL verses - which isn't conducive to sermon delivery. With Clippings I can add verses to my file in whatever version I want without the global aspect. (Hope that makes sense ... it did to me )
I understood what you are saying and can see where being able to select the version on a verse by verse basis would be beneficial. For me, while preaching NKJV and NIV would probably be the only two I have in front of me since those two are what the majority of the congregation uses.
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FWIW: This is the primary way I used the old Verse Lists in L3 but am using Clippings to do so with L4. As has been mentioned before, regardless of whether Passage List or Clippings are used, I would like to be able to graphically tag my text - similar to how Notes tags the original text with a yellow box. But instead of a yellow box give me another symbol to indicate a Clipping or a PL (pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, green clovers, or whatever).
All that's missing is the ability to print them out so you can have them on the pulpit.
I agree that it would be nice to be able to print these lists from the program. It would even be nice if we had the ability to add tags to passage links on the list (hint, hint)[;)]
A work around for now is to select the list and copy it into a word document. This works fine and gives you the ability to edit as needed before printing.
ah, I hadn't gotten around to checking the good old copy/paste. Thanks for pointing it out. Gotta remember to always try that right click to see what's available.
EDIT: that helped me to see that you could insert Headings...this could be very good for organizing my sermon outline...I like it.....
is that really such a big thing that an entirely new module needs to be added?
Yes! I direct you to my answer above. Without some kind of verse list functionality it is exceedingly difficult to compare/contrast the results of two different searches (Morph/syntax).
Three possible uses:
1) In L3 I used a Verse List to keep track of Memory Verses I was working on or had memorized and wanted to review periodically. (It's not that big a deal to recreate it in L4, but I wonder if they are going to add importing of verse lists in a future beta?)
2) You can generate a Verse List from Search results (you could do that in L3 as well). In L4, do a Bible Search, and then from the Search panel dropdown menu, select "Save as Passage List." If you enter a Bible version abbreviation in the Resources box in the Passage List, you'll have a selectable and copyable replication of your Search results which you can then copy and paste into Word, print, or whatever you like. Since L4 has not implemented the ability to copy directly from Search results (Bob has told us it's a really hard technical problem to solve to make it work and they're not promising they're going to do it), this would be a good workaround.
3) In L4, you can select a paragraph of text in a book or journal article that has lots of Scripture references mentioned in it. Now go to your Passage List and choose Add --> Add passages from...selected text. This will add all the Scripture references in that selection to your Passage List. Now if you enter your favorite Bible version in the Resources box you've got all the verses referred to and their text. It's essentially the same as what the PowerLookup tool will do, which you can also copy/paste from, but copying/pasting from a Passage List leaves you with a cleaner result (just the references and Bible text, no footnote markers or citations. Could be useful if you're preparing handouts or supplemental material go go along with an article/chapter you're printing to share with your Bible study group or something.
I'm sure there are other uses for it that I haven't dreamed up.
I believe he said importing would be in a future beta. However have you considered using a Prayer list for Bible Memory? I just had the idea today and it seems like it will work nicely. Call it bible memory, give the title the passage reference, and copy the text into the note. Then set it up according to when you want to review it.
I would have expected the Passage Lists to be used as search criteria in the Bible Search. But as of yet I see no way to do this. Maybe in the future?
After seeing another post, and then looking closer at my setup, I see that if I scroll down in the search criteria popup and you CAN in fact use it in a search.
Now that is a cool new discovery! I thought I'd totally exhausted all that this feature can do yet, but I hadn't. You can't do that in L3. I'm trying to think of uses for it. It probably wouldn't be any advantage to search within a Passage List that was already generated by a Search, because doing AND would accomplish the same thing. (For example, if I searched for Christ; clicked the Search panel dropdown and chose Save As Passage list; I could then select that Passage List as my reference range to search through the next time for Lord; but I could have accomplished the same thing by searching for Christ AND Lord.)
Maybe I might want to generate a PL from a book chapter or journal article and search for something throughout only those verses that were cited in that resource chunk.
Still groping for more ideas of how it might be useful, but it's cool that you discovered this.
My vision is to have Passage lists for each of the major Doctrines, subdivided by headers into subcategories. So I would have a list for the Atonement, and headers for Extent, Purpose, Act, Etc. Then I could do a search for how a particular term is used in passages dealing with that particular doctrine.
Now that is a cool new discovery! I thought I'd totally exhausted all that this feature can do yet, but I hadn't. You can't do that in L3. I'm trying to think of uses for it. It probably wouldn't be any advantage to search within a Passage List that was already generated by a Search, because doing AND would accomplish the same thing. (For example, if I searched for Christ; clicked the Search panel dropdown and chose Save As Passage list; I could then select that Passage List as my reference range to search through the next time for Lord; but I could have accomplished the same thing by searching for Christ AND Lord.) Maybe I might want to generate a PL from a book chapter or journal article and search for something throughout only those verses that were cited in that resource chunk. Still groping for more ideas of how it might be useful, but it's cool that you discovered this.
You could use it to cross-pollinate between different types of searches. Say perhaps that you run a syntax search that brings up many verses. Export it to a Passage list. Then you could run a morph search on that verse range and you could make some observations about the types of terms used in that construction.
It really is a nifty feature.
Yes! That's something I wanted in L3.
Is it just me or is there no way to "show the passages" next to the references ala v3?
Its just you. In the Box at the top labeled "resources" type the translations you want to use separated by a comma.
Is there an easy way to export the passages in a PL to a word document? I have tried and come up short.
You can copy and paste them: Ctrl->A for select all. Ctrl->C for copy.
Right-click menu also has the options.
(at least not since lugging around boxes and boxes of IBM cards for Fortran/CSMP programs back in the 70's)
Wow, you brought back a childhood memory. My mother worked in data processing in the 50's and 60's, and she was always bringing me home stacks of mis-punched cards to play with. They seemed so futuristic then...
Anyway, sorry about the hijack [:)]
Another question related to Passage Lists:
Has anyone figured out how to use "Add from file..." yet?
It has worked for me. Click it, navigate to a word document or text document, and select it as the file. All references within that document will be added to the Passage list. It would nice to see a list of the document types that work with this. I'm guessing powerpoint, Word, Text, HTML, and PDF work, but I've only tested word and text documents.
Is there an easy way to export the passages in a PL to a word document? I have tried and come up short. You can copy and paste them: Ctrl->A for select all. Ctrl->C for copy. Right-click menu also has the options.
Wow guess i overlooked that, thanks. Next time I will look harder.
Nice.
Works for *.doc (Word 2003) but not for the same document formatted as *.docx (Word 2007). PDFs seem to work, too.
I wonder if there is there going to be an "add from clipboard" feature.
An 'export' feature would be nice too.
You can copy/paste a passage list, so I'm not sure I'd add 'export' as a high priority feature since it's pretty much redundant. I guess they could make it export to various different formats, though, so perhaps there'd be some added benefit.
An example of what I would have in mind would be this. I know it is not a useful example, but shows a theory.
If I have a passage list of the word of Christ, and another PL of old testament quotes, I could combine them to find all the places where Jesus quotes the old testament.
Now obviously, this isn't a needed example, as it has been done many times already. But it does give one the ability to do such work on their own.
Another long term result is this. If I am doing a study of the Law used in the new testament, and collect all my scripture that is relevant, then next year do a study on forgiveness, I could quickly see if either of the topics intersect.
Again, these are not necessarily real world examples, but give an example of what I was expecting from such a thing.
Searches can quickly give a list of verses. But passage lists can be the result of entire subjects or topics.
Thanks - I was wondering this too!
J
An 'export' feature would be nice too. You can copy/paste a passage list, so I'm not sure I'd add 'export' as a high priority feature since it's pretty much redundant. I guess they could make it export to various different formats, though, so perhaps there'd be some added benefit.
Let's say I developed a killer PL or Clippings or Notes file (or whatever file) and wanted to share it with others. For example, I develop a Clippings file that contains the Libretto from Messiah to share with others who are using L4. Under the Copy n Paste scenario that is a daunting task for me and for anyone who wants to incorporate that file into their copy of L4. The procedure would be okay for onsey-twosey but not for multiple files. Depending on the number and skill level(s) of the parties involved there could be lots of keystrokes, copyin' n' pastin', emails back and forth?, phone calls back and forth?, coordination?, etc.
If we had an 'export' feature, I could easily export my Libretto Clippings to a file and anyone who wanted it could simply 'import' it. Easy.
Better yet, if Logos had a 'share' feature built into their L4 servers one could export to the B'ham servers for import by anyone so authorized by the content developer.
An 'export' feature would be nice too. You can copy/paste a passage list, so I'm not sure I'd add 'export' as a high priority feature since it's pretty much redundant. I guess they could make it export to various different formats, though, so perhaps there'd be some added benefit. Let's say I developed a killer PL or Clippings or Notes file (or whatever file) and wanted to share it with others. For example, I develop a Clippings file that contains the Libretto from Messiah to share with others who are using L4. ... If we had an 'export' feature, I could easily export my Libretto Clippings to a file and anyone who wanted it could simply 'import' it. Easy.
Let's say I developed a killer PL or Clippings or Notes file (or whatever file) and wanted to share it with others. For example, I develop a Clippings file that contains the Libretto from Messiah to share with others who are using L4.
...
Oh, you're responding about a general Export feature which I highly am in favor of. I was speaking within the context of this thread and thus the specific request which I think had only to do with ways to improve the PL feature (add exporting to it). I think exporting clippings and notes is a must. I think exporting PLs is less important. If Logos adds "Export" to anything they have to add it one-by-one, it's not a case of if the Exporting feature is there it will automatically work with everything. For example, you can already export Search result graphs to Excel.
In researching this myself, I found I can use the F7 feature to view each passage at a time in 4 versions..does that help? ~M
Document sharing is coming in the future. (Via the Internet.)
Cool! Bob - will this in any way include sharing Collection definitions? That might make a nice library like Reading Lists...some of my best COllections are ones I learned from how others organized their llibrary!
Another silly question.. are passage lists only in the Beta or in 4.0b? This sounds like something I could use!
Passage Lists are new in 4.0c (Beta 1).
