Paying for another library
I have three libraries on my computer 2 Logos which is Libronix and WordSearch and now you want us to pay for an additional software. Plus all of my books are not available and still haven't migrated.
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The software is free. You pay for resources (books) and some features. As a WordSearch user, you should have been given special discounts and bonuses. I know that you are not thrilled that WordSearch went out of business, but you should be thankful that someone bought the business and is continuing to support your previous purchases!
D Anthony Bohles said:Plus all of my books are not available and still haven't migrated.
There is a special forum for WordSearch users. I will see if I can find the link. You should be able to get some of these specific questions answered there.
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THIS link should show you the status of your WordSearch Library. THIS link is a more generic list of the migration of resources to Logos. THIS is the WordSearch forum.
You may need to contact FL to get some specific questions answered about your account. If you have questions about the free software engine, please let us know.
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I have the software but why should we have to pay for the features? I have already spent money on what I already have. IJS.
Thanks for chiming in!!
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D Anthony Bohles said:
I have the software but why should we have to pay for the features?
You aren't asked to pay for features that you already have the rights to, to the best of my knowledge. What do you believe you are being asked to buy again?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Customer service is not able to combine those? They have been really helpful for me.
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JT (alabama24) said:
The software is free. You pay for resources (books) and some features.
I think it would be helpful for long time Logos users to take into account the fact that separating software from features only makes sense to a Logos user because we've been conditioned by Faithlife. Most software that we purchase outside of the Logos ecosystem includes the features of said software. So it's understandable when new folks come over from another platform that the separation of software from features is a bit confusing and frustrating.
I understand the feeling of being frustrated that you've already paid for something, and then that thing got bought by another company that didn't offer you their version of that thing for free but expects you to pay again. They could have at least given all the Wordsearch users a Starter package (or at the very least Fundamentals) and then discounts to upgrade to a higher level. It seems like they just gave them Basic, which is already free for everyone. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but that's what it seemed like the announcement was saying.)
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Kiyah said:
I understand the feeling of being frustrated that you've already paid for something, and then that thing got bought by another company that didn't offer you their version of that thing for free but expects you to pay again. They could have at least given all the Wordsearch users a Starter package (or at the very least Fundamentals) and then discounts to upgrade to a higher level. It seems like they just gave them Basic, which is already free for everyone. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but that's what it seemed like the announcement was saying.)
Thankful for reply by a Faithlife employee that included:
This is incorrect: Wordsearch users were not given Logos 8 Basic, but a custom version of Logos 8 that matches the features that were in the latest Wordsearch version they owned: https://files.logoscdn.com/v1/files/45561287/content.pdf?signature=B7M_mhfLktiAHHtsu8A5fek3BDg
Thread => Wordsearch-Logos Equivalent Features describes WS equivalents in Logos (noted many Logos features were not in WS 12 with migration chart & thread discussion including some WS features that are not in Logos). Surprising for me is new Feedback site having 1 vote for => Instant Verse Study with 4 votes for => Adult Questions for LESSONMaker and 17 votes => Illustration Manager
D Anthony Bohles said:I have three libraries on my computer 2 Logos which is Libronix and WordSearch and now you want us to pay for an additional software.
Welcome [:D]
Please elaborate about "want us to pay for additional software." (if request is purchase again what you have, do want Faithlife to investigate/correct)
FYI: as a long time Logos & Verbum user, am cognizant about Faithlife using many marketing promotions to encourage wallets to cry [:'(]
Logos & Verbum have a licensing matrix of software features that can be unlocked. A number of features need Library resources for usable content: e.g. Syntax Search without Clause Visualization resources cannot be done.
D Anthony Bohles said:Plus all of my books are not available and still haven't migrated.
Glad for book migration being in progress while Sad about not yet done => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/195163/1146410.aspx#1146410 while Thankful about Faithlife update progress, which should include a timeline this year (hopefully sooner rather than later)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I don't have access to any of the features I would use just part of my library and some of the books I use consistently aren't available yet. I have the first Logos program which is Libronix and I've had it for years and when the name changed to Logos, they didn't upgrade my library. WordSearch was great I have WordSearch 12. I'll keep waiting to see when every thing migrates.
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Kiyah said:
Most software that we purchase outside of the Logos ecosystem includes the features of said software.
...but the software is free. That isn’t a trivial point.
Over the years I have paid thousands of dollars on various software applications which are worthless to me now. In fact my wife just made me throw away about 100 or so discs because they are worthless. If FL keeps their word, and also stays in business (unlike WordSearch), you could stop using Logos and come back 10 years later with a computer using not-yet-discovered technology and still have access to your library resources.
I made purchases of datasets up until about 3 years ago. I now have a subscription to Faithlife Connect. If I stop subscribing, it is true that I lose access to the PAID features I have not purchased.... but I will keep the ones I previously paid for, along with the free ones. That is a good and generous offer.
Some People complain that FL is a business... WordSearch didn’t go out of business because they were making money. If the business isn’t viable, it goes out of business.
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D Anthony Bohles said:
I don't have access to any of the features I would use just part of my library and some of the books I use consistently aren't available yet. I have the first Logos program which is Libronix and I've had it for years and when the name changed to Logos, they didn't upgrade my library. WordSearch was great I have WordSearch 12. I'll keep waiting to see when every thing migrates.
Im sorry, but I don’t fully understand you. I’ll try to respond to what I can. If I miss the boat, please do clarify!
First, if you had libronix, there WAS a system for you to migrate into Logos. As technology changes, practices change too. Libronix was sold using technology which no longer exists, and current resources are sold using technology which didn’t exist back then. You <may> be able to get help with your old resources. please create a new thread for that issue.
As for WordSearch, I understand that you are upset that they went out of business. That wasn’t Faithlife’s fault. You can still use that software as long as it keeps working. I do say this respectfully: It is good that Faithlife purchased the business and is willing to help continue supporting your access to your resources. That is a much better proposition than if WS just folded. You are in no worse position, but hopefully in a better one.
As for resources migrating: I am unsure what your issue is. I provided links above. Are you waiting for resources to be converted, or are you waiting for FL to recognize your WS library? Those are two different issues.
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D Anthony Bohles said:
I have the first Logos program which is Libronix and I've had it for years and when the name changed to Logos, they didn't upgrade my library.
Last Libronix release was 3.0g on 17 Feb 2010 => https://blog.logos.com/2010/02/libronix_30g_fixes_windows_7_compatibility_issue/ (new Logos formatted resources are not usable by Libronix: as of Mar 2012, all new resources need Logos). Libronix was installed for all users on a computer while Logos is installed per user (consistent with Faithlife Terms of Service), which allows Libronix & Logos to be used at the same time. At this point, the only option for any personal documents in Libronix is copy & paste into Logos (as Libronix document import into Logos went away as of Logos 8.9 in Nov 2019). If your Libronix v3 licenses were not uploaded to Libronix servers years ago, your product codes can be registered/merged with your Faithlife account using => https://www.logos.com/redeem
My order history includes purchase of "Logos for Mac 1" (partial port of Libronix 3 to Mac) software. Thankful for change of Logos software being free. Thankful for Logos 7 free release in early 2017 also having a free Basic package => https://blog.logos.com/2017/03/get-logos-7-basic-already-logos/ that was usable for Bible Study (previous free software engine releases for Windows & Mac had no library resources so lacked usability for a new user, which was different than free mobile apps that included free online access to ~50 resources, mostly Bibles).
D Anthony Bohles said:WordSearch was great I have WordSearch 12. I'll keep waiting to see when every thing migrates.
Thankful for Wordsearch page => https://www.logos.com/wordsearch that includes link to list of titles transitioning with status. Thankful for Faithlife update about book migration yesterday in thread => Which new Wordsearch resources would you like to see first?
We are still working hard to get them delivered. As you may imagine, it's quite a complicated process (much more so than we expected!).
The good news is that about 90% of the books we didn't previously have in Logos are now available in some form (whether ebook, Reader Edition, or Research Edition). Of the remaining books, we are continuing to prioritize the books that are most requested in this forum post.
We're working to get an updated timeline put together so that you can have a better sense of what is coming and when you can expect to see them.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Pointing out that with FL products (Logos) core is free but we need the library to make the software run. Is sort of like saying we get a free Pinto's but we need to pay $100 dollars a gallon for gas to make it run. It all depends on how one looks at it I suppose.
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Rene Atchley said:
Pointing out that with FL products (Logos) core is free but we need the library to make the software run.
I have no idea what you mean Rene.
The software is free. The Library is books, which you do indeed pay for. You dont have to pay twice. You dont have to buy features to make the software work if your goal is to utilize your resource library.
For me, the main purpose of Logos is a research library. I know that many users find some of the "bells and whistles" (features) quite useful, but the most important use is the ability to search ones LIBRARY, not just a single BOOK. That is what differentiates Logos the most from something like Kindle.
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JT (alabama24) said:Rene Atchley said:
Pointing out that with FL products (Logos) core is free but we need the library to make the software run.
I have no idea what you mean Rene.
The software is free. The Library is books, which you do indeed pay for. You dont have to pay twice. You dont have to buy features to make the software work if your goal is to utilize your resource library.
For me, the main purpose of Logos is a research library. I know that many users find some of the "bells and whistles" (features) quite useful, but the most important use is the ability to search ones LIBRARY, not just a single BOOK. That is what differentiates Logos the most from something like Kindle.
I find it hard to believe that it difficult to understand the imagery of a free (cheap) car without gas is a useless thing...even if it is free. High priced gas whose price is completely determined by the company, that provided the free car, is still an overly priced fuel for the "free" car. A "free" piece of software that requires increasing levels of libraries at overly priced levels means the "free" software is useless without such such fuel. From my view a "free" piece of search software is just another marketing tool to force the purchase of libraries that are only really useful at Silver levels or more.
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Rene Atchley said:
From my view a "free" piece of search software is just another marketing tool to force the purchase of libraries that are only really useful at Silver levels or more.
Personally amazed & Thankful for Bible Study capabilities in my demonstration account (order total of $ 0.00) that includes Logos 7 Fundamentals & Logos 8 Fundamentals. When opening OR searching a Bible, tend to use my demonstration account instead of my purchased account. When desire more depth, Thankful for purchased account having substantially larger library with more features enabled.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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JT (alabama24) said:Kiyah said:
Most software that we purchase outside of the Logos ecosystem includes the features of said software.
...but the software is free. That isn’t a trivial point.
Over the years I have paid thousands of dollars on various software applications which are worthless to me now. In fact my wife just made me throw away about 100 or so discs because they are worthless. If FL keeps their word, and also stays in business (unlike WordSearch), you could stop using Logos and come back 10 years later with a computer using not-yet-discovered technology and still have access to your library resources.
I made purchases of datasets up until about 3 years ago. I now have a subscription to Faithlife Connect. If I stop subscribing, it is true that I lose access to the PAID features I have not purchased.... but I will keep the ones I previously paid for, along with the free ones. That is a good and generous offer.
Some People complain that FL is a business... WordSearch didn’t go out of business because they were making money. If the business isn’t viable, it goes out of business.
I get your point. And I don't take the approach of complaining that FL is a business because I do want them to stay in business. As someone who used to work in business (corporate finance no less) myself, I chose Logos over other options because I deemed them the most likely to stay in business so that I wouldn't lose my investment. What you call "a generous offer" I call good business for them because it helps us feel comfortable enough to continue investing thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars with them.
My point was simply that I can understand how new people can be confused and frustrated about the Logos way of doing things because it's different than what they're used to, and that long-time users should try to be more understanding of that when new folks come into the forums and complain (which is totally within their right to do). I'm just trying to be empathic is all.
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Thankful for reply by a Faithlife employee that included:
This is incorrect: Wordsearch users were not given Logos 8 Basic, but a custom version of Logos 8 that matches the features that were in the latest Wordsearch version they owned: https://files.logoscdn.com/v1/files/45561287/content.pdf?signature=B7M_mhfLktiAHHtsu8A5fek3BDg
Thankful for the correction. I wasn't sure because it was a little unclear what they were getting.
FYI: as a long time Logos & Verbum user, am cognizant about Faithlife using many marketing promotions to encourage wallets to cry
#FACTS
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Kiyah said:
I'm just trying to be empathic
I can understand that. I also think it is important for people to have a better understanding of how it works. Some say that FL is very expensive, and it certainly can be. It can also be dirt cheap. It can also be “spendy but a good value.”
When I graduated with my undergraduate degree many moons ago, my mother asked her pastor which commentary set she should buy for me as a gift. She ended up not making that purchase, but I now own that set purchased through Logos at a fraction of the cost. I’m very glad I’m not lugging around that set for sentimental reasons. I wouldn’t be able to afford the chiropractor bill
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Rene Atchley said:
From my view a "free" piece of search software is just another marketing tool to force the purchase of libraries that are only really useful at Silver levels or more.
Sorry, Rene but this just ain't so.
It may be that for 'your' purposes the software performs optimally at the level of silver.
Many folks can manage with Logos Basics and a $10 bible or two. Some have built up a substantial library by adding just a free book each month.
It is the same with lawns you can cut them with everything from a pair of scissors to a ride-on tractor. Not everyone who has a lawn needs a ride-on tractor. Sadly, not everyone who has a ride-on tractor actually needs one. However how much one spends on the kit to mow one's lawn depends on how much they have, how much they value their time and a whole host of other considerations.
The point I am making is that a whole raft of people don't need 'Silver' to carry out their bible study and I would guess that a whole lot of folk who have bought silver don't really need it.tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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The analogy of free car and gas isn’t quite fitting. Our resources don’t need to be refilled. We can continue to use them as long as Logos is maintained.
You could say that Logos offers a free car but with manual transmission, low horsepower, no frills. If you want more power, auto transmission, GPS, etc, you pay for the upgrades. I think that’s fair enough.
I have over 800 resources, which I use with the free Logos 8 Basic. It’s enough for me, and I don’t see the need to get L9. Don’t feel that you need to pay to access and use your resources.0 -
About the high-priced gas: yes, I agree that resources are expensive, especially after factoring in exchange rate, for me. I almost never buy anything that is not at 50% or more discount. But I also note that prices on the other electronic platforms are comparable.
Resources may have been cheaper on WS, but we should also recall that the car in that case was starting to become less roadworthy - notably for Catalina users. It was a sign of real trouble.0 -
I don’t wonder why companies who made cheaper prices for digital products are out of business. It is easy to sell paper books. You sold it and got your money and no more maintenance. Digitals, once you sold, it’s only beginning. You have to always secure it, update servers, update program, and etc. We should not forget that
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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To keep the car analogy relevant - I used to drive a Mitsubishi Precis. I added an after-market cruise control to that car. Mitsubishi no longer makes that model of a car. I was later given a free Buick. Would it be reasonable for me to expect GM to provide a cruise control for my new Buick since I had purchased one for my Mitsubishi? GM MAY offer attractive incentives to keep me in their line of vehicles, but they are under NO OBLIGATION to "make me whole" with the ownership experience I had with a previous manufacturer who no longer makes or sells that vehicle.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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