Book Suggestion: Knox Bible
Baronius Press publishes this excellent Bible.
https://www.baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=60#tab=tab-1
The Knox Bible is the ideal translation for those looking to deepen their understanding of the Holy Scriptures. It was hailed as the finest translation of the 20th Century, approved for liturgical use and was endorsed by Pope Pius XII, Archbishop Fulton Sheen and many more.
In the early 20th century, Msgr. Ronald Knox embarked on an entirely new English Bible. He wanted a Bible that did not merely translate the original but made it read as if an Englishman had written it. His translation is spiritual and literary, graceful and lyrical, making it one of the most beautiful vernacular versions of the Holy Bible.
The unique features of the Knox Bible are:
- Translated from the Latin Vulgate and compared with the Greek and Hebrew texts single handedly by Ronald Knox over nine years.
- Uses timeless English, which is both sacral and reverent.
- Set in a single-column format with verse references placed at the side of the text in order to provide a clear and easily readable Bible.
- The full Bible is now available again for the first time in over 50 years, in an edition from Baronius Press, beautifully bound in leather with gilt edges.
- Included with this new edition is a paperback edition of On Englishing the Bible (5.5" x 8", 72 pages) in which Msgr. Knox describes his account of the ordeal, which manages to be both illuminating and full of his wit. Anyone wishing to know more about Knox's translation – and the problems involved in rendering the sacred Scriptures into the vernacular – will be fascinated to hear from the translator himself how he tackled this mammoth project.
In the early twentieth century with the blessings of most of the English bishops, Msgr. Ronald Knox embarked on an entirely new English Bible. It was to be based upon the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome, but Knox consulted the texts in Greek and Hebrew where necessary in order to ensure the accuracy of the translation.
In his On Englishing the Bible, Msgr. Knox explains how he carried out the mandate given to him by the English hierarchy. He aimed at a Bible that was understandable to modern audiences and yet rooted in Catholic tradition and “written in timeless English”. He wanted a Bible that did not merely translate the original but made it read as if an Englishman had written it.
Novelist Evelyn Waugh remarked about the translation that
It is unquestioned that for the past 300 years the Authorized Version has been the greatest single formative influence in English prose style. But that time is over …. When the Bible ceases, as it is ceasing, to be accepted as a sacred text, it will not long survive for its fine writing. It seems to me probable that in a hundred years' time the only Englishmen who know their Bibles will be Catholics. And they will know it in Msgr. Knox's version.
His three aims were: accuracy, intelligibility, and readability. He was loyal to these principles without sacrificing the rhetorical power of the original and while deliberately keeping a few of the well loved archaisms in the text. He preferred lucidity to poetry, but as one of the finest literary craftsmen of 20th century England he avoided falling into banality.
This was particularly so in his unique respect for the Hebrew Acrostics (starting successive verses with successive letters of the alphabet). Here Monsignor Knox respects the 22 letters of the Hebrew original but starts his verses with successive letters of the English alphabet, usually leaving off X, Y, and Z and one other letter, often Q.
In Lamentations 1, 2, and 4 he completely follows the English order and uses the letters A-V; and in Lamentations 3 he adheres to the tripled Hebrew verses (66 verses) and uses AAA-VVV, i.e. three A verses, then three B verses, etc. (When checking the Knox acrostic Psalms, remember that he is follows the Vulgate numbering of the Psalms which is generally one lower than the English and Hebrew numbering.)
The result is unique. The Knox Bible is firmly rooted in the text of the Clementine Vulgate, the Latin Bible that was the Catholic Church’s official bible for nearly 1,600 years; and yet was Knox was careful to cross check his translation against the Hebrew and Greek texts. In readability and scholarship it firmly belongs to the age of modern bibles.
Fr. Cormac Burke (www.cormacburke.or.ke), who has studied the Knox translation extensively says:
It is an opinion that may have particular application to the pauline epistles. Regarding these I do recall some early critic who, while conceding that Msgr. Knox had certainly made St. Paul intelligible (he was at times barely so in the old Douai-Rheims version), still doubted whether Knox's version really makes Paul say what he actually wanted to say... I am not scripture scholar enough to resolve the question; but am sure that the same doubt can be made extensive to quite a few more recent versions.
In the Old Testament, the Wisdom books are particularly expressive. No translation of the Psalms is going to please everyone. But it is worth examining Psalm 118, for instance, where Msgr. Knox stood fully up to the particular challenge its translation represents. To my mind, the result is a tour de force.
Consider also the Major Prophets. I find the first chapters of Isaiah and of Ezechiel specially remarkable. The poetic tone of the Psalms and other poetic books changes to something more resoundingly epic – as indeed befits prophecy. Prophecy is meant to surprise; it is dramatic and emphatic. And Knox's rendering of Isaiah or Ezechiel – idiosyncratic if at times it be – certainly brings out the solemn force of God's word on the lips of his prophet. It strikes the listener, and one is more inclined to stand up and take notice. As it should be. When working from scanned pages, it is difficult to spot and correct all the errors. The New Testament has been subjected to very careful correction over these years. I will be very grateful to those who point out any errors they spot in the Old Testament.
Pope Pius XII, in a note that he sent to Msgr. Knox shortly before Knox died, called it “a praiseworthy achievement … a monument of many years of patient study and toil.” Novelist and Knox’s fellow convert Evelyn Waugh predicted in the middle of the 20th century, when the literary influence of the King James Bible and its sonorous cadences were waning fast, that in a hundred years’ time the only biblically-literate Englishmen will be those who are Catholic, and that they will know it through the Knox translation. The Ven. Fulton Sheen notably favoured the Knox Bible as the source for his biblical quotes, and even though it has not been in print for a number of decades, interest in it has never ceased.
Waugh’s prediction may have seemed quixotic in the past 50 years, but today’s hunger for a measured return to beauty and reverence may mean that it will yet come to pass.
We must never forget that all authentic and living Christian spirituality is based on the Word of God proclaimed, accepted, celebrated and meditated upon in the Church.
Pope Benedict XVI, 2010
Comments
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See also: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/97884.aspx?PageIndex=1 & https://suggestbooks.uservoice.com/forums/308269-book-suggestions/suggestions/10852821-the-knox-bible
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Licensing conversations are in progress for the Knox Bible with Baronius.
Stay tuned....
Craig St. Clair | Verbum Product Manager |
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Hopefully for Divine Intimacy as well.
Remember, this man has done a calendar which makes Divine Intimacy relate to the current church calender, I'm sure he would be very pleased to receive a contribution to include his conversion calender in the electronic work. His calender aligns "Divine Intimacy" to the current Church calender and shows how awesome this work is. It's a fabulous meditation, deeply Carmelite in its essence and application.Here is the link for the calender: http://divineintimacy.larmour.us/ I forgot to include it in the message I just sent.Regards,
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[Y][Y]Licensing conversations are in progress for the Knox Bible with Baronius.
Stay tuned....
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Very excited about the Knox Bible and I'd also like to add my support for Divine Intimacy. It's great that someone has done the work to fit this amazing collection of meditations into the new calendar. Hopefully, if it comes to Verbum, there would be an option to choose the calendar- those of us that are involved the Extraordinary Form of the Mass still adhere to the old calendar (and would also love for the 1962 lectionary to be integrated into the daily Mass/Saints day features).[:)]
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Any updates on this, or Divine Intimacy? Can we write to Baronius, I have both of their publications and I've given some away also, I just want it in Verbum to go alone with the rest of my library.
I don't care if Baronius makes us submit proof of buying their books, I love my physical books and I read them for pleasure, but I use Verbum for study.
Hopefully "Divine Intimacy" will be able to bring up the readings from the Missale Romanum (1962)
Also can you put in a good word to update the TABELLA TEMPORARIA in this missal? It currently only goes to 2011, or is that something only the publisher can do?0 -
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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feedback.faithlife.com needs a different log than all the other "Logos" related sites.
I can go from Logos.com to verbum.com to biblia.com to faithlife.com and not need to log in, but if I try to log into feedback.faithlife.com, I need a whole different username and password.
Angels protect us!
Thanks, MJ.
DR
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
feedback.faithlife.com needs a different log than all the other "Logos" related sites.
I can go from Logos.com to verbum.com to biblia.com to faithlife.com and not need to log in, but if I try to log into feedback.faithlife.com, I need a whole different username and password.
Yes.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
I can go from Logos.com to verbum.com to biblia.com to faithlife.com and not need to log in, but if I try to log into feedback.faithlife.com, I need a whole different username and password.
Feedback => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system has 5 votes (tied for third most votes on Faithlife.com)
FYI: Thankful for my demonstration account using gmail that is useful for Feedback until SSO is implemented.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The feedback.faithlife.com site also requires a new username and password, so I cannot even vote to have it added to the Faithlife SSO system without registering again.
Why do I need yet another account?
Regards,
David
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
I can go from Logos.com to verbum.com to biblia.com to faithlife.com and not need to log in, but if I try to log into feedback.faithlife.com, I need a whole different username and password.
Feedback => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system has 5 votes (tied for third most votes on Faithlife.com)
FYI: Thankful for my demonstration account using gmail that is useful for Feedback until SSO is implemented.
Keep Smiling
Didn't know this was something to vote for. But now that I do know, you've got my vote
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Feedback => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system has 5 votes (tied for third most votes on Faithlife.com)
Given that FL said to put Feedbear's feedback on their site, that FL has told us that they've asked Feedbear for a change, etc. I suspect this simply makes FL users feel better and reminds FL that the issue matters to their users. But FL cannot change it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I must have missed that thread. Do you have a link?
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
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David Wanat said:
I must have missed that thread. Do you have a link?
I believe it was in the original announcement thread:
As Phil implied, this new feedback site is hosted by a third party: FeedBear. New Faithlife Feedback Boards - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)
If you have problems with the experience of using the feedback site itself, or would like its features to be improved, you can file those directly with FeedBear: https://feedback.feedbear.com/
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thank you. I clearly failed to note the significance
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Craig St. Clair,
Any update on Knox Bible and Divine Intimacy?
Anything we can do on the outside?
It might be hopeless to get a "macro" to give us the readings in English for the date in Divine Intimacy which uses the Latin Tridentine Mass and calendar.
Both books are enormously useful, Msgr. Knox's translation has to be the best modern translation in my opinion. We can only wonder what it would have been like had Msgr. Knox been able to work directly from the ancient texts without using the Vulgate as the primary text to translate. Msgr. Knox's use of the English language is stunningly beautiful.
Best wishes,
David
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My immediate problem is that Last Pass recognizes the site as a faithlife site and not a feedbear site.
I have to manually log into feedback.feedbear.com and then go to feedback.faithlife.com and I will be logged in.
Faithlife should have kept the address as feedback.feedbear.com or at least redirect feedback.faithlife.com to that address so people can log in with their feedbear account.
Best wishes,
David
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We would love to bring the Knox Bible to Verbum. I wish we could do it tomorrow. However, before we can move forward we have to reach an agreement with the current rights holder. If there is ever any news on that front, we'll post here.
In the meantime, this remains the only work by Fr. Knox available: https://verbum.com/product/175786/the-creed-in-slow-motion
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However, before we can move forward we have to reach an agreement with the current rights holder. If there is ever any news on that front, we'll post here.
I take it this is why some of the highly regarded works (like Merton’s “Seven Storey Mountain“) remain unavailable?
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Don,
Is there anything we outsiders can do? I own both their books in print, are they worried that they won't get paper book sales? I have both books and I would still buy both books because it's a different type of reading that I do with Logos/Verbum.
I'm more much more apt to read for pleasure or reflective meditation with a bound paper book than use Verbum, but when I start studying the passage in context with use of the ancient manuscripts, it is much easier to use Verbum. I no longer have some of my Greek, Hebrew and Latin texts, I've sold them because I have them in Verbum now.
I have NOT sold my NABRE, NRSV2-CE and NJB hand cover bibles even though I have them all in Verbum, I continue to read those for a different purpose.
I probably wouldn't even want Divine Intimacy in Verbum unless I had a Latin-English translation of the 1962 Missal, but I have that in Verbum - not directly but indirectly by using the Roman Latin Missal then by reading the readings in Latin then going to the D-R which is a translation of the Vulgate Latin from which the 1962 readings come. But it's possible. It should be possible to find "Today's Readings" in the Lectionary, then search for them in the HOPED FOR Divine Intimacy digital Verbum version and read the Teresian Lectio Divina type meditation and reflection of the same passages in Divine Intimacy. Such a cross reference is missing from Baronius' edition, and is badly needed for modern English language worshipers of the Novo Ordo.
If it's a matter of money or royalties, offer them twice as much but remind them if they charge you too much, sales will drop because if the price goes to $100 per book, I'll just keep with my current printed copies of their books thank you very much.
Thank you,
David J. Ring, Jr.
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David Wanat said:
However, before we can move forward we have to reach an agreement with the current rights holder. If there is ever any news on that front, we'll post here.
I take it this is why some of the highly regarded works (like Merton’s “Seven Storey Mountain“) remain unavailable?
Whenever there's an obvious title that we don't have, it's usually a matter of the rights holder not granting rights for its being produced and sold for Verbum or Logos. But we keep trying!
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If the Rights holder is afraid of losing bound paper book sales, I'd buy another Leather bound Knox Bible if it was purchased with a license for an electronic resource produced by Verbum.
Do they understand we study with Verbum, but we usually sit in an armchair with a printed volume if we are reading for pleasure or enrichment.
Right now I have to have Verbum running on my computer while I physically turn the pages of my printed Knox Bible and unless I've kept excellent notes, it's extremely difficult to find a parallel note elsewhere in the Bible.
In fact their stubbornness is having a profound effect on my buying volumes of their printed Bible to give to others as gifts.
This feeling of resentment against allowing Knox Bible lovers to have an electronic version as well can only grow and blister into disgust at a publisher that heretofore I simply adored.
Regards,
DR
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[quote]Baronius Press secured the rights for the work from the Archdiocese of Westminster in 2009 and their new leather-bound edition of Monsignor Knox's translation was published in October 2012.
Rights for the British Isles are clearly either with Baronius Press or the Archdiocese of Westminster ... I can find nothing indicating who owns the North American rights... quite possibly the same two potential owners.
With some of the recent changes, I can understand some hesitancy in dealing with Faithlife.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Is there a page to learn about the changes you mentioned?
Best wishes,
DR
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
Is there a page to learn about the changes you mentioned?
personal observations - sorry
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
This feeling of resentment against allowing Knox Bible lovers to have an electronic version as well can only grow and blister into disgust at a publisher that heretofore I simply adored.
Maybe you could contact Baronius Press yourself and ask for it.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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