Thanks for your response.

Subscriptions make me feel dirty, so I will unlikely subscribe for long unless there is a similar fallback license to the Jetbrains model. (https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license).

That's an interesting model. That's for the info. (I used to subscribe to Jetbrains, but I'd forgotten all about this license.)

Probably worth mentioning they recently released an integrated AI Assistant service, this requires a subscription independent of the one mentioned above. https://www.jetbrains.com/ai/

I know the other subscription tiers haven't been announced/determined, but I hope there is one aimed at people with academic interests. I would have little use for many of the new Pro features, but I might be interested in an AI tool optimized to do textual criticism or Greco Roman or Akkadian intertextuality and stuff like that. 

We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates. 

In an age of endless subscriptions, I would be careful as subscription fatigue is becoming real. Pastors and loyal Logos members will gladly pay, but I and others who may be content buying Logos Fundamentals, Starter, or Bronze may not sign up for a subscription. Furthermore, it may deter some people. I have switched software before once it became a subscription-only service as I avoid subscriptions whenever possible. Making at least present features and layman future features available as perpetual licenses can generate extra money from people like me, and can allow those who want to avoid the high one-time fee to subscribe. It is a win-win deal where Logos makes money either way. I will stick with Logos as I already own all the features I care for so other than switching to dark mode without a restart, I'll be okay.

We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates. 

In an age of endless subscriptions, I would be careful as subscription fatigue is becoming real. Pastors and loyal Logos members will gladly pay, but I and others who may be content buying Logos Fundamentals, Starter, or Bronze may not sign up for a subscription. Furthermore, it may deter some people. I have switched software before once it became a subscription-only service as I avoid subscriptions whenever possible. Making at least present features and layman future features available as perpetual licenses can generate extra money from people like me, and can allow those who want to avoid the high one-time fee to subscribe. It is a win-win deal where Logos makes money either way. I will stick with Logos as I already own all the features I care for so other than switching to dark mode without a restart, I'll be okay.

I know the other subscription tiers haven't been announced/determined, but I hope there is one aimed at people with academic interests. I would have little use for many of the new Pro features, but I might be interested in an AI tool optimized to do textual criticism or Greco Roman or Akkadian intertextuality and stuff like that. 

I can certainly agree. But I also try to be realistic. Outside of Perseus (sp?), Logos is largely a 2nd or 3rd year Bible school tool (plus preaching). If there's more greek resources, it's grammars ... if more hebrew, grammars. I don't know what's up, in aramaic. Not even that?  Any FL expertise left?

I kind of meh'd when Bob's brother intro'd Perseus. Now, I feel lucky! And indeed, maybe AI would work for textual criticism, though Accordance has more mss coverage (though still limited). I'd bet an AI subscription from New Orleans (CNTTS) would be the better subscription.

Rather than delivering five new but fairly small features over a 30-week period, we might invest in (let's say) one substantial new feature and several small but significant improvements to existing features. In other words, this time our promise to you is about quality, not quantity.

This can sometimes be a good intention that the reality of marketing needs to sell new versions to keep the lights on can conflict with but let me lend my full support to this direction. I'd much rather have less new features if the ones I do have are best in class and truly useful. Atlas is a great example of this along with the timeline (can't easily see Bible books in context of history, which is a fail for me). I need more help finding value in my library. That's where the real effort needs to go in the future. 

It's a bit more nuanced than that.

We're announcing that we're leaning heavily into subscription this fall for the five reasons I gave, particularly the ability to release features early and often and because subscriptions enable AI and similar features.

We're listening to users to help us understand whether the ability to purchase a feature set is worthwhile to them if they knew it wouldn't include regular updates or AI features.

So subscription is the future, but maybe there's still a lesser role for the perpetual license.

And this is why there is so much concern about this major change in business model..... One post will say those who don't subscribe will receive updates, one mentions the six week releases to keep up with OS updates and then this little grenade is dropped..... So what is the TRUTH about updates for those who choose to not subscribe - this statement makes it sound as though they will be left in the dark....

Those of us who have been around for the Libronix era, The original and IMHO still best Sermon File addin, the transition to L4 and each subsequent upgrade - well, we have seen many promises like "the you keep access to resources and features you own whether you upgrade or not" at times be forgotten.

As some who have stated with regards to the current subscription models, a number of things never followed through on.... (I don't subscribe so I can only base it on the comments I have seen posted)

There more discussion that happens seems to be pointing towards the promise in this post from Bob in relation to concerns that subscription would take over as no longer being honored - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103335/715312.aspx#715312

Supporting the existing ownership model indefinitely is not what it sounds like at this time.... (And yes I know that an "escape clause" of not using the word promise was included) - but the consistent mantra has always been we would never lose access to our features and resources - yet it has happened... I still have missing features that I owned in Libronix and the Libronix engine is no longer supported or readily available.... So, understand that some are leery.....

So subscription is the future, but maybe there's still a lesser role for the perpetual license.

I agree that subscription is the future in order for companies to stay ahead of the game with innovative features. The AI features in Logos have been well implemented (especially in these early stages) and I am already finding them tremendously useful. I see the benefit of AI in getting the most out of the massive resources that we have access to in Logos. 

There more discussion that happens seems to be pointing towards the promise in this post from Bob in relation to concerns that subscription would take over as no longer being honored - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103335/715312.aspx#715312

I'm sorry that part of the transparency is saying "we think" and "we plan", not "we promise", but if I was confidently asserting that I could tell you how technology products / business-models / platforms / trends were going to be a few years from now, you'd have other reasons to think poorly of us. :-)

I also referenced that "escape clause" in my post. which you misleadingly left out of your post here..... The fact is, that we have always been promised that we would not lose access to resources and features that we purchased.... That has not always been true, see the Sermon File Addin and no the current Sermon features are not the same, nor better IMHO....

So, there is obvious question as to whether Logos will eventually force users into the subscription plan..... Or if they will eventually eliminate the engine and just release an ebook reader, so they can say that customers still have access to their purchased books.... Which would mean more features that were purchased and then removed or no longer supported without upgrade/subscription...... Chalking it up as the features were redone and only available in a new version (Sermon File), so there is a need to subscribe....

And this is why there is so much concern about this major change in business model..... 

.... So, understand that some are leery.....

Stepping back. They knew there'd have to be a subscription to the AI. They knew they have a whole series of subscriptions. And consolidation was an option. So, they let lose with hints and then clarifying hints. I hate to see Sept's Logos 11 launch ... I assume preachers are going to be in the bull's eye (feature access).  More recently, their church management .... subscription?

The other mystery is 'early release'. If something is profitable, why make big-spenders jump thru hoops, to avoid the Logos revenue?  I'd assume the answer is Sept ... get used to it ... going to be brutal.

I just think majority ownership has to translate to change.

Mark, What about those of us who have not yet bought the entire Logos 10, however, have thousands of books, and thousands of dollars invested into our library? Would we not be eligible for the discount because we have not bought the latest version, although we still have spent thousands on the program? Thanks!

And this is why there is so much concern about this major change in business model..... 

.... So, understand that some are leery.....

Stepping back. They knew there'd have to be a subscription to the AI. They knew they have a whole series of subscriptions. And consolidation was an option. So, they let lose with hints and then clarifying hints. I hate to see Sept's Logos 11 launch ... I assume preachers are going to be in the bull's eye (feature access).  More recently, their church management .... subscription?

The other mystery is 'early release'. If something is profitable, why make big-spenders jump thru hoops, to avoid the Logos revenue?  I'd assume the answer is Sept ... get used to it ... going to be brutal.

I just think majority ownership has to translate to change.

I hope so....

Though, it's not encouraging when Mark speaks of:

"We're listening to users to help us understand whether the ability to purchase a feature set is worthwhile to them if they knew it wouldn't include regular updates or AI features.

So subscription is the future, but maybe there's still a lesser role for the perpetual license."

Statements like wouldn't include regular updates and lesser role are discouraging for those that have no interest in a subscription.

They also draw me back to the lost features and lost accessibility fiasco of the transition from Libronix to Logos.....

So.... There may be a need to change this page - https://www.logos.com/ways-to-upgrade that states we don't lose anything you owned in a previous Logos Version and that the features are yours to keep forever.... This has always been stated, but has NOT always been practiced. Nor will it be practiced if the Logos engine goes the way of Libronix and owners are forced into subscribing for access to their owned products.... Which hasn't been stated, but..... It may just not be "planned" yet.....

Subscription based models also would not seem to apply to the following statement on the About Faithlife page, as monthly fees likely limits the accessibility for some.

We are committed to increasing biblical literacy and accessibility for every Christian around the world.

This is the vision behind everything we make—from our Bible study platform to church technology and everything in between.