Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

When the product fully releases in the future, will we be able to subscribe annually or only monthly?

Will see more tweaks and improvements to the AI search? It's yet to surpass precise search in my experience so I'm not currently motivated to subscribe.

We'll be bringing improvements to many early access features over the next several months and beyond, as well as adding new features. I can't make specific promises, but we intend to invest in the areas that our users tell us will be the most valuable, and we're looking forward to hearing more about what those things are.

Since input was requested, here's mine (FWIW). At this moment I will not be subscribing. I may subscribe in the future if some new feature seems worth it to me. I'm fairly adept at formulating a search that finds what I need, so at the moment the AI search is not a priority for me. I am assuming that using the subscription features means constant access to wifi for it to work. Normally that is not a problem, but I do sometimes find myself working in places without it. One of the greatest values of Logos for me is the ability to take, and use, my library anywhere I go, even if I don't have a wifi connection.

For the Logos admins who may read this post, I'm sure the decision has already been made and it is too late to pause at this point. And I understand that software people have a different take on AI. However, I would urge a long, serious look at the philosophical issues involved in linking Bible study to AI. As an academic, the uses for AI that I have seen for documents is nothing to be excited about. AI generated texts are often (maybe always) wrong about something, and users who do not have expertise in what they are looking at may accept incorrect conclusions as truth or fact. AI is also subject to cultural biases (cf. the recent Google Gemini problems). None of this should be acceptable for those who study and teach the Bible.

Beyond that, however, is the problem of conclusions, or summaries, without the intellectual rigor required to get them. I read one post on here where a Logos user said he had invested in all kinds of datasets and still could not translate Greek. That's because translating Greek is an acquired skill which is the result of studying the language. The same is true for attaining a mastery of theological literature, any given Bible topic or passage, etc. The idea of "pressing a button" and getting instant analysis bypasses the crucial step of acquiring the skills that make using those results effective. Integrating AI into Logos encourages all of this. I would much rather read an article or chapter and know for myself what it said, than "know" it from an AI-generated summary.

I have firsthand experience with students who are increasingly using AI to complete assignments. They want a good grade but they don't want to put in the personal effort it takes to earn one. They see AI as a way of eliminating the hard work of reading and thinking about what they read. I see the linking of Logos with AI in a similar way. It encourages presentation without learning. It discourages actual thinking. If AI goes in the direction in which it seems to be headed, my fear is that we're in the process of creating a generation of people who will lack critical thinking skills because the AI shortcut gave them their information. Is that the kind of lawyers, or doctors, or preachers, we want? And should Logos be contributing to this?

Will there be an annual payment option for the Logos Pro subscription?

[Y][Y] This is my question! Because your target audience (pastors) may have professional expense accounts that are easier to reimburse 1x a year.

also, wishing I could get "chapter summaries" before my Connect subscription renews in November. (since I had a similar feature BACK in Libronix Series X)

Will there be an annual payment option for the Logos Pro subscription?

Very likely, yes, but probably not during the early access period.

Hi, Mark. I read books.  I highlight books.  I write a few notes.  I want no new features.

My question: Every year I buy NEW books.  I want them to work without a monthly subscription......How do I do this in the new subscription milieu?  Will I have to subscribe?

Are there tutorials on these?

I should have forum posts on each of these features out by the end of the day. There are articles on the support site already. You can use this link to jump to them: https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/21081346488205-What-s-included-with-early-access-to-Logos-Pro 

Thanks for the explanation Mark. I have 2 questions:

1) If someone does not subscribe to Early Access now for $9.99, when do they lose the early access features that they may have gotten during the beta test period (which still work as of today)? Or do they keep the features until fall, but the $9.99 price for Logos Pro is higher in the fall if someone did not take advantage of the early access offer?

2) Do you envision that "Logos Pro" will be the highest tier, and that other tiers introduced will be less expensive/less features than Logos Pro? That is, that there will not be a tier in the fall that offers features that Logos Pro does not?

As a comment - when you pondered that there may or may not be a way to purchase features instead of subscription, I would vote no - WAY too confusing. I can't see that working equitably and without confusion in the many scenarios and for the many customers Logos would be faced with.

There could be side effects too, for Logos - what if some feature gets purchased by more people than Logos envisioned, then the monthly income trail is gone for that - defeating the reason for going to subscription in the first place, for that future set. In that case, how do updates get done, or does Logos have to "borrow" funds meant for other features? I am sure there are MANY scenarios that would only be solved by more complexity and confusion.

Logos is moving to subscription, as many others have. Just bite the bullet and do it - it's clean and easy to understand, and tiers will make it affordable/people can easily weigh cost/benefit for their own situation. Also, my "vote" is really based on worries about Logos impact - difficulty in communication of the plan, shortfalls in expected revenue based on the purchase/subscription mix, etc. If Logos is going to do this, I want it to be successful for them. I am comfortable with subscription models, especially with tiers for people to choose from.

My .02!

It seems that in the future, feature sets are not going to be available for outright purchase, but only as a subscription model. That is totally fine. Businesses have a right to change.

But what about people who have always bought full feature sets? Will the subscription pricing reflect the price of only the incremental features? Doing this incremental pricing 10 years/20 years down the line is not going to be easy. What I see happening eventually is older features are tweaked, renamed, and become part of subscription model, so Logos will end up double-dipping (and Seinfeld fan?) into our pockets for features that we have already purchased.

This is a difficult problem to solve, and it's something we're actively working on. We won't be offering dynamic pricing on subscriptions, but we will be offering a healthy discount to existing customers, especially those who have always bought full feature sets.

The $9.99 price, by definition, includes the cost of renting resources included in the plan.

Yes, but only to a point. We're not including our most expensive books. We recognize that many full-feature set owners will already own many of these books, and we've taken that into consideration when setting this discounted price for that group.

I am a long time early adopter and expect to cross this bridge to the future as I customarily do. Don't poison good faith by switching bait and running away with the value I have paid for in advance. In other words I expect to see the features and perks I've bought to continue through December 2024.

Understood. We're very conscious of customers like you, and we want to do the right thing for you.

Mark, I subscribed! I notice the About Box still says "Verbum Early Access". Should it say Logos Pro? Does it need a restart?

I hope that you can consider including a coupon code to buy the full feature set at a discount so that we can keep the Logos 10 features as a baseline in the future

We've recently been discussing something similar to this. It's good to hear that – for some people at least – both a subscription and a discounted purchase would be valuable.

I would like to know if subscriptions similar to Logos Pro will have something like dynamic pricing? Because I was examining the books in the subscription, and many I already own, as I currently have almost 7,000 books.

(1) Has Faithlife considered this issue of books that the subscriber already owns in the subscription?

(2) Will there be a subscription only for the resources and tools without adding extra books?"

This post probably answers those questions best. The short answer is that this $9.99/month offer is discounted on the assumption that if you own the full feature set, you probably already own many of the books. So, if you don't already own most of the books, you're getting a bargain. But if you do, you're not paying extra for them.

Can you expand a little on this? I am an existing connect member. It sounds like there are a few features/datasets I currently have that are not in Pro. I would prefer to wait and learn more about the plans before switching but want to know what is meant by special price. If I wait will I be losing out on a special early-access price that will continue into the future or will I have similar pricing options when the final plans are announced?

That's a great question. We'll make sure that customers who follow our advice and wait until they hear more about our plans for Connect subscribers aren't disadvantaged.

And that is what I want to tell you: Fix your bugs. I have reported many and they are still there. I really don't beliefe you will fix them more than since. 

Logos has been around for 32 years, and that's one of the reasons why it's so powerful and comprehensive. But that also contributes to Logos having more bugs than we – and you –  would like.

We're committed to fixing historic bugs.

• v31 included 37 bug fixes
• v30 included 40 bug fixes

That rate was slightly reduced in v32 with all the new features we released. But even then we fixed 16 older bugs. We also fixed many new ones during the beta, but we don't include those in our release notes.

So over those three releases, we've averaged fixing five older bugs per week. The work is spread out across the team, but we allocate the equivalent of four full-time developers to bug fixes on desktop alone (not including bug fixes in new code).

Question:

What is the source code program of this new AI feature? Is it build from the ground up by inhouse Logos' production? Is it borrowing from Gemini? Is it borrowing from ChatGPT?

I'm a German user whose English is not so good. But I try to say something:

"Amazon Prime" started in Germany with a subscription price of 49 Euros. A few years later they wanted to have 69 Euro. Meanwhile we are at 89,90 Euro, and if you want to see films in Prime Video without Advertisment, you pay 2,99 Euro extra; means 126 Euro a year.

So I fear: The 9,99 Dollar subscription price for Logos will also only be the beginning.

From the book list included in Logos Pro, I determined that I have most of it. So in reality, what I'd be paying is features use mostly. Shouldn't that be factored in also in the Logos Pro subscription fee, like how dynamic pricing works for perpetual licenses on base packages? I mean, why should both users pay the same amount of subscription fee when another has zero of the books while another have most, if not all, of them?

This special discounted pricing is only available for people with the L10 Full Feature set. We assume that those customers will also own most of the books, so we took that into consideration when we calculated the discounted price. There will be very few, if any, customers receiving the discounted price who don't already own most of the books.

Another question I would ask is, should there be a two week, or month-long free trial to Logos Pro?  Again, I'm skeptical that I would ever go with a subscription model, barring the return of the personal book builder and mobile app access that I previously mentioned, but a free trial would at least give Logos a chance to try and convince me through the new features offered.

At the current price the AI features simply aren't smart enough for me to buy in. The Smart search has been consistently worse in finding results compared to precise search. I have no interest in the summarize feature - it's my job to read, not the computer. This could change if these features were more refined.

I understand the need for a subscription for services like AI, but I have no intention of ever subscribing for other features. My current set up has everything I need and I am much more willing to put up with 'outdated' features down the road than putting up with a subscription. At the end of the day my work as a preacher is to read and write and Logos 10 already does far more than that.

Making at least present features and layman future features available as perpetual licenses can generate extra money from people like me

This is a great idea!!!

I have also never seen a library subscription which goes anywhere close to meeting my needs. I suspect other users with larger libraries will feel the same. Perhaps if you did a full catalogue subscription like netflix but for books?

Even Amazon hasn't been able to persuade publishers to offer a Netflix-style subscription for books. Maybe one day it will be possible...

Mark, What about those of us who have not yet bought the entire Logos 10, however, have thousands of books, and thousands of dollars invested into our library? Would we not be eligible for the discount because we have not bought the latest version, although we still have spent thousands on the program? Thanks!

The discount is mostly given because users with the L10 Full Feature Set already own most of the features and content in Logos Pro. We're still figuring out how to handle situations like yours. Depending on what level of feature set you own, it may be worth your while to upgrade to L10 in order to secure the discount. Maybe later in the year, we'll have some special offers available to make that an even better deal.

What about those of us who have not yet bought the entire Logos 10

That is a predicament that I am in as well. I have been a user since 2018. And with the purchase of WordSearch, I will be an indefinite user, likely. I have a mediocre library. I did not upgrade to Logos 10. 

Yes exactly. I place myself into being one of this type of customer.

(Regarding Connect and Logon Now etc, often it seemed I already had paid for the "free book" of the mth, and kind of felt ripped off. More so if it was one of the titles for that unfinished set I paid $999 for, and am still waiting to get more than 15 or titles. Way to make angry customers ... as all the many threads on that topic continue to show every mth or two, for the last 10 or 15 years ...)

Logos: Please respect those that have already paid "truck loads", over the years.

assign a value to each user’s library and features they currently have then give them that much in credit for subscriptions so that they get to burn through all their credits before having to pay anything for subscription.  That way u don’t have to offer discounts just a one time credit for what people own.

This is a good idea if Logos wants to force all people to go to the subscription route. Logos knows how much people have paid for Features over the course of time. So this is easy to do for them.

I like the subscription model because it allows more users to get into the fuller levels of the software quickly without having to think about making a huge investment. I think this will be a gift for pastors who don't have the budget but have always wanted to have it. I've spent more on Logos than I've spent on any of my vehicles. 

I like the idea of having more people invested in the software which will support more feature support and creation. It'd be great to get a dedicated illustration and quote organizer separate from the notes tool and a word processer to write papers. I'd also love a more enhanced notes tool that is comparable to Evernote, one note or notion. 

I understand the frustration of someone, like me, who has spent a lot of money and now the barrier to get started is much lower, but at the end of the day, anything that helps get people into the best tool to study the Bible is a good thing. 

To be honest, and Logos may hate me for this, but I am perfectly content if you all would just please spend the extra little money to allow the last engine to run perpetually, and please do not make your mobile app subscription based. Logos already does so much, I really do not see how people can even imagine to complain or think of new features? But, everybody was begging for AI without thinking of the cost to maintain that model, and as such, now Logos has to switch to subscription. t may just be me, but I would be content if Logos never adds another Feature. I use it now for mostly purchasing books and study, and to read books on the tablet.

I think one thing you should do, is offer an engine, like say your last v10, call it Logos X (I think there has already been one,) and a purchasable feature set that stops at what 10 offers. Allow these to be the last Engine, and last Full-Feature purchase available, but keep them updated so they can always be downloaded in the future for those who are content to consider it "Logos Complete."

I say this, because honestly guys and gals; Logos 10 Full-Feature is already so powerful, even without the AI stuff, that a majority of people still have not learned to use all its functions properly; and that same amount probably only know a fraction of what it can do. Let this last version be your perpetual "Stand Alone." Always offer the engine, always offer the last full-feature to be able to be purchased, and always make it able to run on the major OS's new releases in the future. People will still purchase that as much, if not more than the subscription model; as long as there is no temptation to downplay its functions to persuade to subscription. 

AI is cool, but it isnt ground breaking. Logos has been over-kill for quite sometime, but in a cool way. And frankly, many people do not trust AI for their theological research anyway. Again, it seems pertinent to not try and force your customer base into a subscription model, but give them the choice; but make it known that while Logos10 (or whatever it may become to be known as) can still be purchased, and owned, and updated to work on current OS's; that it will forever remain in the state it is in. But please understand that there are many, many people who would be perfectly content with that Engine, and those Features, with the ability to purchase books like we always have. There should be no reason, since the former already exists, that it and the subscription cannot both be options.

I think most people just want the security of knowing there will be an option to download it, and have it on the computer, and run on future OS's without having another subscription to attend to. Even if you never add another feature to it again. Even 500 years from now, if the Lord tarries, I couldnt see Logos 10 not being more than useful for a Pastor or Scholar, or Layperson to study the Word. At the same time, I know there are those that keep pressing yall for more, more, more. Let them pay for the subscriptions.

Just all in all find that nuanced balance of promoting both the Desktop, and Subscription Model. Its a Win/Win.

Why don't you guys just offer free 3 month trial for everyone if testing the waters is your purpose?

As a Logos expert user with a large library and an early adopter as well, I am always interested in trying out new tools. Logos and AI makes me excited about its potential. 

Looking at what AI features Logos currently offers and its $9.99/m subscription, here's my takeaway: 

• I'm not (yet) impressed by smart searching. 
• I searched my books with the prompt: "Which commentaries hold the view that Jude did not change his mind when he wrote his letter?" 
• 1st hit is a book review that doesn't say much about the question, and if it does it holds the opposite view.
• 2nd and 3rd hit are a commentary that holds the opposite view
• 4th hit is another book review that doesn't say anything at all about the question.
• 5th hit is an entry on 'Jerome's commentaries' in a dictionary that doesn't even talk about Jude, let alone my question about Jude.
• I searched my books with the prompt: "How are the Greek verbs ἀγαπάω and φιλέω different from each other in meaning?"
• 1st hit is a grammar that provides a list of Liquid Verbs that indeed does include φιλέω, but without any comment on its meaning and the first occurrence of the verb ἀγαπάω in the book is 73 pages separated from the page that contains φιλέω. 
• 2nd hit is a different grammar that a list of copulative (!) verbs where neither φιλέω nor ἀγαπάω are mentioned, of course. 
• 3rd hit is even more curious as it gives me the TDNT to the entry of κηρύσσω, zooming in on the Secular Meaning of κηρύσσω in Lk. 12:3. No mentioning of either verb from my prompt. 
• 4th hit gives me some good translation exercises, but in none of the sentences I found the verbs I was looking for, and of course it didn't say anything about meaning.
• The Summary of search result is cool
• In both my searches from above they accurately didn't provide any information related to my prompt, so it could have saved me time by not looking at the context of the snippets myself (which I did for the sake of this feedback!) 
• Summary feature in the side bar of a resource panel 
• I let Logos give me a summary of the section 'Chronological Context' in NIVAC on Joel, p. 24-27: 
• it gave a misleading representation by writing 'it is likely placed in early in Israelite prophecy' which is a rephrasing of '(...) has led some to place it early in the history of Israelite prophecy', while the author - if pressed - leans more to a date around 500 BC. 
• it gave a correct conclusion that - according to the author - the book should be interpreted within its intrinsic literary context given the difficulty of dating the book.
• I let Logos summarize the chapter on 'Why Circumcision' from Heiser's I Dare You Not to Bore Me with the Bible:
• in general it gave a decent summary of the text
• it did accurately inform me that the chapter 'explores the historical and cultural context of circumcision'
• it failed to include an important conclusion for Heiser, that 'the evidence suggests that circumcision did not distinguish Israelite men from their foreign neighbors.'
• Logos summarized a section on Paul's Petitions in Ch. 3 of Carson's Call to Spiritual Reformation: 
• it did a nice attempt to summarize 6 pages in a small summary
• I'm impressed by the summary of chapter 3. I am wondering if the AI summary of the chapter on my computer will be the same as the AI summary of the same chapter for a different Logos user.
• Unfortunately, it seems Logos will only summarize the smallest textual unit that has its own heading (e.g. paragraphs or sections or chapters). It does not give an option for the user to get a summary or the main points of a whole book. CORRECTION: it does seem to allow the user to select a summary of a section and a chapter. I haven't found the option to get a summary of a whole book. The options which section to summarize seem to appear a bit randomly and should be given more prominence. 
• Sermon Assistant Tools
• I haven't tested them much as I don't see myself using them a lot, since I am not a preacher or a pastor
• I did try a different user case of the Questions tool: I copied the chapter on Why Circumcision? from Heiser's I Dare You Not to Bore Me with the Bible, as I can imagine that as a teacher that would be a helpful tool. 
• I was disappointed to see only general questions that could have been applied to any text or sermon, such as: 
• What was the main topic of the sermon? 
• What Bible verses were referenced in the sermon? 
• How did the sermon apply to our everyday lives? 
• HOWEVER, when I - unintentionally - regenerated the questions, I was blown away by the content related questions such as: 
• According to the sermon, why do you think the speaker says that circumcision sounds absurd? (Btw, I like it that Logos adds the words "According to the sermon" !!
• What was the significance of circumcision as the sign of God's covenant with Abraham?
• What evidence does the sermon present to suggest that circumcision did not distinguish Israelite men from their foreign neighbors?
• I LOVE the distinction between adult / teen / children's questions, as the latter are indeed much easier than the other ones. 

Recommendations: 

• the Smart Search needs significant improvement, as I found it pretty much useless for my research purposes as of yet. 
• Summary feature in the side bar of a resource: 
• make the options of summarizing a section of a chapter more prominent
• allow for summarizing a whole book 
• allow for the user to generate a summary of the main points / arguments of a book or chapter, presented in bullet points followed by a brief description 
• Sermon Tools: I have before pleaded for more tools and features for researchers and teachers. I am happy for preachers and pastors to have two more features added to their tool box, but I'd love to see more tools developed for teachers and researchers. Some of the new tools can be tweaked for other purposes, e.g. 
• simply add the Questions feature to the sidebar of a resource panel. A very practical use case would be for book discussion groups to generate discussion questions about the book / chapter that a group is reading. 
• Not related to the added AI features, but just the addition of another one: I don't think at this point, the new AI features would entice me to pay another $120 a year (especially since I also already own most if not all of the included resources). HOWEVER, if Logos could add an AI-driven text-to-speech feature for our resources, that would be a game-changer for me and I'd be happy to subscribe. This AI text-to-speech tool should meet the following expectations: 
• a much more natural voice than the currently available computer voices
• a much better overall pronunciation of words in general (my computer voice pronounces 'rivers' as *raivers*!) and of biblical and theological names and terminology in particular  
• ideally, a capability to read Greek and Hebrew

Thumbs up, Logos, for trying to integrate AI in the software, but for me the roll-out of the AI functions is a bit too early! Looking forward to see further developments.