Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
Later this year, we’ll launch the next version of Logos as a subscription. The subscription will have several tiers and eventually replace Preaching Suite, Faithlife Connect, and other Logos feature sets.
We’re living in a period of significant technological change, and only a subscription model enables us to continuously release new features and improvements as soon as they are built. Many of you don’t want to wait up to two years for improvements that could significantly benefit your Bible study. Subscription also allows us to include AI features which we can’t offer with permanent licenses due to the significant ongoing costs and rapidly changing technology.
Subscriptions aren’t required to maintain access to your existing content. They’re for those who want access to new and improved features. With Logos, your content investment is always safe, and you’ll always be able to access it for free. The subscription benefits listed above for features don’t apply to books in the same way, so we don’t foresee a time when we’ll stop selling perpetual licenses to books.
Can I get these subscriptions today?
One of the tiers of the forthcoming subscription will be called Logos Pro, and it will be aimed specifically at pastors. The full launch of these subscriptions won’t happen until later in the year, but if you own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set or subscribe to Faithlife Connect (excluding Starter and Mobile), you can get early access to Logos Pro today at a very special price.
Logos Pro includes most of the Logos 10 Full Feature Set, a library of more than 400 books to help you experience the power of Logos, and all the new features and improvements we’re developing for Logos 11. If you subscribe today, you’ll get five new features (Smart Search, Search Results Summaries, Summarization Sidebar, Sermon Assistant, and Instant Dark/Light Mode), and approximately once a quarter, we’ll add new and improved features to the subscription—not just this year, but every year.
How much will early access to Logos Pro cost?
Customers who own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set or subscribe to Faithlife Connect (excluding Starter and Mobile) can purchase the subscription for just $9.99/month. When Logos Pro launches in the fall with the other tiers of subscription, you’ll have the option to maintain your subscription to Logos Pro or switch to one of the other subscription tiers at a continued large discount.
How do I get it?
If you qualify, you can get early access to Logos Pro today at www.logos.com/early-access.
What is in Logos Pro?
We, and our beta testers, are excited by the features we’re adding to Logos Pro and later to the other subscription tiers. At the time of writing, Logos Pro includes most of the Logos 10 Full Feature Set, a library of more than 400 books to help you experience the power of Logos, and five new features described below. More features will be added regularly throughout the year and beyond.
Smart Search is a brand-new search engine built right into Logos. Just like the search engines you’re familiar with online, Smart Search doesn’t just search for the words in your query—it uses AI to search for articles that discuss the meaning of those words and then shows the most relevant place in that article in the search snippets. It makes searching your Logos library as easy as you’ve always hoped it would be.
Search Results Summaries allows you, with one click, to turn any brief search snippet into an AI-generated summary of the entire article, allowing you to better understand what each article covers, saving you time and helping you find the best content to dig into.
Summarization Sidebar enables you to use AI to summarize any article or chapter in almost any of your Logos books. The new Summarize tool can help you digest a lengthy article more quickly, simplify a complex article, or determine whether the full article is worth your time reading in full.
Sermon Assistant is an AI-powered tool that helps preachers overcome creative block and makes it easier to create materials to help the congregation better engage with the message. Currently:
- The Illustrations Generator suggests several short sermon illustrations you can use to explain doctrinal or other concepts.
- The Discussion Questions Generator takes a completed sermon and creates a series of discussion questions based on the sermon that could be used in a church bulletin or for small group, family, or personal study.
More than 400 commentaries, dictionaries, systematic theologies, journals, and other books to help you experience the distinctive power of Logos, including:
- 17 volumes of the Lexham Research Commentary series
- 10 volumes of the Spurgeon Commentary series
- 30 volumes of the Bible Study Magazine
- More than 350 additional volumes
Instant Dark/Light Mode allows you to switch between light and dark mode on desktop without requiring you to restart Logos.
And much more still to come!
That’s a lot of AI! Are all the new features going to be AI-powered?
We’re excited by the possibilities that AI—responsibly leveraged—brings to Logos, and we want to make the most of this technology. But we also want to equip you with the best tools for Bible study, using the most suitable technology for the task. So while there are plenty of AI-powered improvements in Logos Pro, and several more coming, we’ll also bring non-AI feature improvements, too.
Does AI really have a place in Bible study?
Christians have always been at the forefront of technology when it comes to accessing and understanding the Bible, whether adopting the codex in the second century or the printing press in the fifteenth. However, AI has limitations, fallibilities, and biases because it mirrors and sometimes amplifies those same weaknesses found in all human authors. That’s why Logos always lets you know when the content you’re reading is generated by AI. In addition, Logos’s AI tools are backed by your Logos library and designed to ensure AI is used responsibly and in a way appropriate for Bible study.
I don’t own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set. When can I subscribe to Logos Pro?
If you don’t own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set, you’ll be able to subscribe later in the year at a higher price. Or, you could purchase the Full Feature Upgrade now and immediately become eligible to subscribe at the discounted price.
Is early access to Logos Pro a beta program?
No. Each feature is beta-tested before it becomes part of Logos Pro. The purpose of early access is not for testing—it’s so that you can enjoy these new and improved features without waiting for the major release in the fall.
Can I cancel at any time?
Yes. Just visit https://www.logos.com/account/subscriptions.
Where does this leave subscriptions like Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite?
The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. The tier we're launching today, Logos Pro, includes exclusive new features, but there are a few tools and datasets in Connect and Preaching Suite that aren’t in Logos Pro but will be in another tier of the subscription. Most of the books in Logos Pro are different from those included in the existing subscriptions.
If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books. In the meantime, you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible.
Will I be forced to subscribe to Logos in the future? What about all the books I’ve already bought?
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment. Your books are your books. Subscriptions are for those who want access to the latest improvements, which aim to help you uncover deeper insights in less time.
Does this mean Logos will be subscription-only? Will I be able to buy Logos in the future?
Logos subscriptions aren’t new. More than ten thousand people have been subscribing to Logos for nearly a decade. But we’re now embracing subscription for our software because doing so has five distinct advantages.
- New users can have much lower upfront costs and try Logos with much less commitment.
- It allows us to continuously release new features and improvements as soon as they are built, rather than holding them back for a major release every two years. That’s especially important at a time of rapid technological change.
- It allows us to include features like AI, which we can’t offer permanent licenses to because of the significant ongoing costs.
- It’s a sustainable way of ensuring we can keep delivering improvements for decades to come.
- Releasing early and often significantly shortens the feedback loop, enabling us to continually tweak our improvements to ensure they’re really solving the most important things for all our customers.
With books, it’s different. The content of books isn’t continually improved—once they’re published, they’re done. And while we bear small ongoing costs to allow you to download and interact with your books, those costs are orders of magnitude lower than that of AI and similar services. Therefore, you will still be able to buy permanent access to Logos libraries and any other books from our catalog. In the future, we may add rental options for those who want it, but we don’t foresee a time when we’ll stop selling perpetual licenses to books.
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
We’re excited about the benefits of a Logos subscription. We’re already building new features and improvements that will be released in the coming months, and we can’t wait to share them with early access customers soon and the rest of our users in the fall.
If you’re eligible and want to subscribe, visit www.logos.com/early-access.
Comments
- I have invested in the features.
- I have chosen to invest heavily in my library because of the features.
- Software: free and paid levels monetized via subscription (while continuing to honor existing licenses we've already sold)
- Content: perpetually licensed content that you can access in perpetuity via that software (based on your combination of free, perpetual, and subscription feature set licenses)
- Is it true to say that all users of Logos are running the same engine?
- Do those who stayed on Logos 9 still get the engine upgrade but with the newer features 'switched off'?
- If the engine is free, does that mean that an upgrade to Logos 10, for example, simply consist in a new set of content and feature licences?
- Is it true to say that all users of Logos are running the same engine?
- Do those who stayed on Logos 9 still get the engine upgrade but with the newer features 'switched off'?
- If the engine is free, does that mean that an upgrade to Logos 10, for example, simply consist in a new set of content and feature licences?
- The free software applications
- The feature sets to enable premium functionality
- The libraries of books
- There's a good chance that the content will change before we move out of early release in the fall. We're working on rights arrangements to be able to use a bunch of really great Lexham content. So I wouldn't form any conclusions based on the content that's presently included.
- I commented in an earlier reply that we're not really baking this content into the price of the subscription. Rather, we're considering this expansion in keeping with the principle of our feature sets, where we include content necessary to ensure features aren't empty in order to give you a good sense of what Logos could do for your with a full library on top of the software subscription.
- We'll almost certainly have different pricing for our subscriptions for new customers vs. existing customers who've already invested significantly in one or more base packages. We're still working out the details, but we don't expect to charge the same price for these two very different scenarios. In the past, we solved this with two different products (Logos Now for existing customers and Logos Cloud for new customers). To keep things simpler, we're more likely to solve it with different pricing or discounts for the same set of software subscriptions. So, your principle is right, but you've gone in the wrong direction (i.e., $9.99/mo. is likely to be the existing customer price, where new customers will pay a higher price).
- New: $10/mo.
- Existing: $5/mo.
- New: ~$20–25/mo.
- Existing: ~$10/mo.
- We will change the format of the underlying document.
- That changed format will be incompatible with previous document formats with no way to convert between the two.
- The three elements of a Logos package will be separated out.
- The engine that opens books, searches them, copies, etc. will, as now be free. (I assume basic search, copy, and one or two other things are classed as part of the basic engine.)
- The books will, as now, be available for purchase and will be perpetually stored on the user's computer(s). Packaged bundles, akin to the legacy libraries or current packages without features, will still be available. These may or may not be updated on an annual or biennial basis.
- The feature sets, which do most of the 'heavy lifting' will be available on a monthly subscription basis. This will enable them to be updated on a more regular basis than the current once every two years. Different tiers (four?) of subscription are envisaged.
- Verbum will have its own subscription model along the same lines.
- Will the engine update be at the same time for everyone or, as now for those not upgrading, about 6 months later for those not subscribing?
- Will the same variety of denominational and level packages continue to be available? The recent trend has been to increase these which is, I think, mainly a good thing.
- As others have questioned, will there be an option to buy features at the end of a certain amount of subscription time?
- The argument for the subscription model is based partly on the cost of using AI features. Can the AI features be a separate part of subscription packages? (In other words, Level 1, Level 1 + AI, Level 2, Level 2 + AI, etc.)
- The current feature sets are slightly different for Verbum compared with Logos. Is this going to continue? If so, will there be dynamic pricing (as now) for someone subscribing to both feature sets?
- The subscription for Logos Pro includes, presumably classed as features, several books that are currently available to purchase as books (e.g., Lexham Geographic Commentaries). Will these still be available separately?
- Will the Academic Discount system apply to subscriptions?
- The Logos Pro subscription currently available includes a discount over what would be the price for those coming in new to Logos. How long will this discount last? When the new model rolls out, will there be discounts applied for those who have already purchased most of the features included in 'Logos 11'?
From the terms of logos (Logos - Terms of Service)
g. “Order” means any purchase of Logos Software, Content, or Subscriptions whether paid or unpaid.
Do You cancel my previous purchases of features so that I now have to pay for them monthly?
If that's the case I am deeply disappointed. And I really feel cheated.
Do You cancel my previous purchases of features so that I now have to pay for them monthly?
No. Read Mark's Frequently asked questions.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Hello everyone, Question: What will happen to our $9.99 price after the launch? Will we continue to be billed the $9.99 if we choose to stay, or will we have to pay more for what we have now? Is there a benefit to subscribing now versus when it is FULLY released?
Subscribe now to retain the Early Access discount
"When Logos Pro launches in the fall with the other tiers of subscription, you’ll have the option to maintain your subscription to Logos Pro or switch to one of the other subscription tiers at a continued large discount." Mark Barnes:from the first article of this thread.
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
Sounds interesting. I meet the requirements for Pro Early Pricing and I love seeing the software working on my Mac, which helps in deciding if it is what I need as an ordinary Home Bible User. $10 a month to basically take a test drive of Ai Bible Software...maybe. AI Credits and when you run out? The Home User is not going to need this. At least those of us who use God's Word, a Concordance, a Dictionary (English, Greek, Hebrew) and a Commentary. I have $800 of books in my Library, most of which I don't use, already, sadly. Still undecided if it has any use for the average user who is sitting at home doing his Daily Devotional or Bible Reading/Study.
Sounds interesting. I meet the requirements for Pro Early Pricing and I love seeing the software working on my Mac, which helps in deciding if it is what I need as an ordinary Home Bible User. $10 a month to basically take a test drive of Ai Bible Software...maybe. AI Credits and when you run out? The Home User is not going to need this. At least those of us who use God's Word, a Concordance, a Dictionary (English, Greek, Hebrew) and a Commentary. I have $800 of books in my Library, most of which I don't use, already, sadly. Still undecided if it has any use for the average user who is sitting at home doing his Daily Devotional or Bible Reading/Study.
Based on your description of how you study I do not think you will benefit from Logos Pro (Early Access). However, I have found that smart search has opened up my library more by presenting resources specific to my study that I would probably not have found. I think it works better the larger your library. I am not a pastor and am working my way slowly through Romans. I have found the smart search and summary features very helpful in asking questions using natural language and having AI find resources that may answer my questions. Since it is not an annual subscription, you can try for a month or two and see if it is helpful to you.
I'll pay $10/month just for the fun of getting answers to questions like "were there dinosaurs on the ark?"
You just sealed the argument for why all of us need to subscribe to this. :-)
Dr. Nathan Parker
Thanks, John.
As someone who has been with Logos since October of 2009, now Faithlife, and has the Logos 10 Full Feature Set, I agree the AI for me doesn't make any sense. Essentially, I would be paying to search my own Library. I looked at the total money spent on my Library over the years and it is $5,869. If all that was on a bookshelf, well, that would take up a lot of room
$10 a month to basically take a test drive of Ai Bible Software...maybe. AI Credits and when you run out? The Home User is not going to need this.
I think you will be surprised about what the Home User wants, especially when it comes to Searching. AI credits renew each month.
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
"sitting at home doing his Daily Devotional or Bible Reading/Study."
Thats me. Have not spent a dime yet on Logos. Will see how this fleshes out.
One thing that has not been addressed is Mobile Ed. I know there is a subscription there, but will that be changing? I enjoy the courses quite a bit. They are quite costly however, and I would like a way to choose a subscription where I can pick the courses I want for a given time period.
One thing that has not been addressed is Mobile Ed.
Welcome to the forums. Mobile Ed has not been addressed because it does not figure in this intermediate product. We'll have to wait until the Fall when the full subscription product lineup is rolled out. Given that the Mobile Ed department has been abolished except for finishing up products that were already filmed, I'm not comfortable making a guess as to what will be done.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
One thing that has not been addressed is Mobile Ed. I know there is a subscription there, but will that be changing? I enjoy the courses quite a bit. They are quite costly however, and I would like a way to choose a subscription where I can pick the courses I want for a given time period.
Thanks for the feedback. We're definitely open to including Mobile Ed in the subscription. I'll discuss this with the team.
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
I have no need for quick/early access to features. I am very happy with the current feature set in Logos 10 with a few caveats for improvements.
I don't need or want AI. I get tired of the online search engines that produce a bunch of results that barely fit my query.
I sure hope you will continue to provide a product that can work offline with the full feature set available today. I usually try to work online, but there are several circumstances where no Internet access is available or very slow.
I like your near-future plans as described in your message to offer additional capabilities for those that need/want them without taking away the current ability to have a perpetual license to the software as well as the books/resources.
Thank you for listening and asking for response.
Blessings,
Andrew
As a current connect subscriber with a medium-size library, I am great with a subscription option that includes all features and datasets. What I am not excited about is any resources being included in that subscription. These end up feeling like cell phone plans that include payment plans for the phone where over time you end up paying farm more for the phone than the actual cost. I just want all the features and let me continue to manage the resources that are useful to me.
What I am not excited about is any resources being included in that subscription.
There's important nuance to what books we're including in our software subscriptions. You can think of these subscriptions as the evolution of our existing feature sets. Increasingly over the last several major releases, we've been putting books in the feature sets, because those books are essential for enabling features to work. Features are powered by a combination of data (and media) sets and books.
We are not putting books into these feature sets to satisfy your content needs. Rather, we want to ensure that you can have a good experience with the software and its various features. And we're not really charging extra for including "a library" in these feature sets. The aim to just to ensure that many of the features aren't nonfunctional without a separate purchase.
We totally understand that most customers want to (a) control what's in their libraries and (b) purchase and own a perpetual license to it. We intend to continue to support that model for the foreseeable future. You shouldn't consider the inclusion of some Lexham and public domain content in our software subscriptions to be at odds with that, since the aim of the included content is simply to enable content-dependent functionality so everyone can have a good out-of-the-box experience.
I hope this helps to clarify a bit why there are more books in our feature sets than we've included in the past.
You can think of these subscriptions as the evolution of our existing feature sets. Increasingly over the last several major releases, we've been putting books in the feature sets, because those books are essential for enabling features to work.
With all due respect, this is not a viable comparison. When books were included in purchasable feature sets, those of us who already owned the books did not need to pay again for them. In this situation, customers who own the books are being forced to pay for them, not once, but perpetually. In my opinion this is not acceptable. I get there may be a discount for customers at the beginning who already own the full feature set of Logos 10, but the whole situation seems concerning to me. How long will the discount be offered? What about people who purchase the books after starting the subscription? Do they still have to pay for renting the books even after they own them? Including the books permanently in the subscription simply does not make sense. The price of the subscription should adjust downward as the books are owned/purchased. Otherwise have a subscription option that does not include resources. Until this situation is clarified, you will always have users complaining about being forced to pay twice for the same resources.
There's important nuance to what books we're including in our software subscriptions. You can think of these subscriptions as the evolution of our existing feature sets. Increasingly over the last several major releases, we've been putting books in the feature sets, because those books are essential for enabling features to work. Features are powered by a combination of data (and media) sets and books.
I hope this helps to clarify a bit why there are more books in our feature sets than we've included in the past.
This does help, thanks, and i am perfectly comfortable with resources included for features. Looking forward to seeing what this offers us in the future.
As someone who has been considering buying Logos for the first time (I actually had planned to make the purchase today) this thread has led me to decide not to go ahead. I have only just navigated the lybranthine array of packages to find what suited my use case (Academic) and now I find that no-one is clear about what the future of that entire system looks like. It's not at all clear to me whether I will required - after having bought it oughtright - to transfer to a subscription to retain it, or if not, how long what I've just bought will last since updates seem to be promised only to the subscription model. All assurances can only be short term if this becomes the fundamental business model of the company.
To be fair, I was never interested in spending tens of thousands on an electronic library I don't own (the Print Catalog feature appealed for this very reason, but it doesn't seem to be available to the Academic packages), which it has been stated here is the main profit driver, so I was never going to be a great fit. As a Bibleworks user I'm interested in studying the Bible deeply, not searching a library - I just want great tools. In addition, I have no interest whatsoever in AI and suspect the current trend to jam it into everything will run its course relatively soon.
It's clear that Logos themselves haven't made their mind up "We're still thinking through ...", so this is clearly not time to step into the ecosystem.
Hi Gordon
It's not at all clear to me whether I will required - after having bought it oughtright - to transfer to a subscription to retain it, or if not, how long what I've just bought will last since updates seem to be promised only to the subscription model.
In Mark's post that started this thread he said:
Will I be forced to subscribe to Logos in the future? What about all the books I’ve already bought?
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment. Your books are your books. Subscriptions are for those who want access to the latest improvements, which aim to help you uncover deeper insights in less time.
Does this clarify or does it still leave you with concerns?
Graham
Hi Gordon
It's not at all clear to me whether I will required - after having bought it oughtright - to transfer to a subscription to retain it, or if not, how long what I've just bought will last since updates seem to be promised only to the subscription model.In Mark's post that started this thread he said:
Will I be forced to subscribe to Logos in the future? What about all the books I’ve already bought?
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment. Your books are your books. Subscriptions are for those who want access to the latest improvements, which aim to help you uncover deeper insights in less time.
Does this clarify or does it still leave you with concerns?
Graham
Unfortunately no, because it offers no assurance about the future of the product with which I access the content. If there are no updates, bug-fixes, support for new formats, then the non-maintained product with inevitably decline. Since no company will indefinitely maintain two business models (and Mark explicitly said they're still wondering what to do about that), moving to a subscription model almost invariably puts an end-of-life on the purchase model. Therefore, it is no time to make, what is for me, a significant investment in it.
Hi Gordon
It's not at all clear to me whether I will required - after having bought it oughtright - to transfer to a subscription to retain it, or if not, how long what I've just bought will last since updates seem to be promised only to the subscription model.In Mark's post that started this thread he said:
Will I be forced to subscribe to Logos in the future? What about all the books I’ve already bought?
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment. Your books are your books. Subscriptions are for those who want access to the latest improvements, which aim to help you uncover deeper insights in less time.
Does this clarify or does it still leave you with concerns?
Graham
Unfortunately no, because it offers no assurance about the future of the product with which I access the content. If there are no updates, bug-fixes, support for new formats, then the non-maintained product with inevitably decline. Since no company will indefinitely maintain two business models (and Mark explicitly said they're still wondering what to do about that), moving to a subscription model almost invariably puts an end-of-life on the purchase model. Therefore, it is no time to make, what is for me, a significant investment in it.
What you're missing, Gordon, is that selling perpetual licenses to digital content requires ongoing access to the software to access that content. We have no plans to move away from selling perpetually licensed content or limiting it only to paying subscribers. So ongoing access to purchased content is absolutely essential.
We would, then, have a dual business model:
I tried to tease that out in this earlier reply.
"We make the majority of our money selling digital books, and it would be foolish for us to put that at risk. Ensuring that you (a) can access your existing content library and (b) feel confident to continue to build it on our platform (and encourage others to do the same!) is absolutely essential to our continued success as a business. We are fully committed to ensuring that that never changes. Logos desktop, web, and mobile will be continually updated with bug fixes and maintenance support to ensure they work on the latest operating systems and browsers, and you won't need a subscription to continue to access your content libraries or existing licenses."
My thought too. I have items in my cart. I can't press the button. Starting to think hard cover books might be the way to go. Hmmm
My thought too. I have items in my cart. I can't press the button. Starting to think hard cover books might be the way to go. Hmmm
The problem is… if you have a fire… you are done! And then there is the problem of lending someone a book and never seeing it again!
LOL... truth!
LOL... truth!
LOL... truth!
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
This would be critically important to me. Without knowing more, I'm inclined to say that it could be a deal-breaker issue for whether or not I continue investing in the Logos ecosystem.
Re the “Pro” future - here are my prognostications, worth about as much as that 5-syllable word might imply … I gather that Logos planners are still working on all this … if clarification about my guesses / recommendations here is available, I’d appreciate it!
I read the info posted here thus far, to mean the “Pro” subscription will gradually (over a couple-year cycle) release new features, likely in a barely-post-beta form. Thus the “pro” users are essentially “gamma testers”.
Then, as I read it, a “package” of these features (as we are all used to seeing) ie L11, L12 etc, will be released every couple of years - and the “new” features will likely be more bulletproof since the pro users will have guinea-pigged them out.
The benefits to Logos the company are obvious - they get “paid twice” for new feature release - gradually by “Pro” subscribers and then again during the package release times. And of course the Pro subscribers also get AI cloud features.
I’d further guess that the “basic tier” for Pro will be the AI stuff since that’s its core justification. The next (or alternate) level would be the full cloud emulation of the PC version (at least as close as the current online version comes). Those two levels might be independently selectable. To that, they could add some subsets of the various tradition / metal levels (maybe all of them?).
My wild guess is that the max subscription price would likely be at least $250/mo, and maybe as high as $400-500/mo, for the “Ultimate” package (if they offer that) - or for multiple-tradition Portfolio levels.
Of course I have absolutely no inside knowledge - I’m just thinking how I might structure it from a coding and marketing standpoint if I were them, leveraging their existing (pretty amazing) sales tools to best advantage.
That approach, from my perspective, would be wonderful for all concerned. Those who want AI can get it but others don’t pay hidden costs for it. Those who want the shiny new stuff quickly can get it and test it. Those who prefer buying packages on a slower cycle get more mature products. And Logos makes more money by selling things twice. Win win win.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Re the “Pro” future - here are my prognostications, worth about as much as that 5-syllable word might imply … I gather that Logos planners are still working on all this … if clarification about my guesses / recommendations here is available, I’d appreciate it!
I read the info posted here thus far, to mean the “Pro” subscription will gradually (over a couple-year cycle) release new features, likely in a barely-post-beta form. Thus the “pro” users are essentially “gamma testers”.
Then, as I read it, a “package” of these features (as we are all used to seeing) ie L11, L12 etc, will be released every couple of years - and the “new” features will likely be more bulletproof since the pro users will have guinea-pigged them out.
The benefits to Logos the company are obvious - they get “paid twice” for new feature release - gradually by “Pro” subscribers and then again during the package release times. And of course the Pro subscribers also get AI cloud features.
I’d further guess that the “basic tier” for Pro will be the AI stuff since that’s its core justification. The next (or alternate) level would be the full cloud emulation of the PC version (at least as close as the current online version comes). Those two levels might be independently selectable. To that, they could add some subsets of the various tradition / metal levels (maybe all of them?).
My wild guess is that the max subscription price would likely be at least $250/mo, and maybe as high as $400-500/mo, for the “Ultimate” package (if they offer that) - or for multiple-tradition Portfolio levels.
Of course I have absolutely no inside knowledge - I’m just thinking how I might structure it from a coding and marketing standpoint if I were them, leveraging their existing (pretty amazing) sales tools to best advantage.
That approach, from my perspective, would be wonderful for all concerned. Those who want AI can get it but others don’t pay hidden costs for it. Those who want the shiny new stuff quickly can get it and test it. Those who prefer buying packages on a slower cycle get more mature products. And Logos makes more money by selling things twice. Win win win.
I'm reading this more as Logos Pro will be the only model to get new features moving forward. There will be no Logos 11 or 12. It's Logos Pro for new features or be locked into Logos 10 or below feature sets.
If there are no plans to make features purchasable outside of Logos Pro then that means if you cancel your subscription 5 years from now your feature set will be rolled back to the previous perpetual license you had. If this is the plan, then I'm not a fan. I'd like a perpetual option in addition to the subscription or have the ability to lock in features after a certain amount of time being on the subscription.
For example, if I subscribe for 12 months then it unlocks features ABC permanently. If I subscribe for 24 months then it unlocks features XYZ permanently even if I unsubscribe.
My wild guess is that the max subscription price would likely be at least $250/mo, and maybe as high as $400-500/mo, for the “Ultimate” package (if they offer that) - or for multiple-tradition Portfolio levels.
With a software subscription, we can continue to deliver improvements to the software, and those continual improvements justify (for many, at least) their continued investment.
Books aren't continually improved, so subscription is more difficult to justify unless you go for the Spotify or Netflix model, where the attraction of the subscription is a huge choice for a low monthly fee. But that's not how most publishers want to operate, and not even Amazon has been able to change that.
Mark, here is the burning question that probably most of us have, who are not interested in AI and not interested in any form of subscriptions … ie probably the majority of your existing user base …
Will Logos continue to release non-subscription packages every 2-3 years that incorporate new features which are not cloud-reliant, as well as bug fixes?
If so, as one of those people, I’m happy (see my longer prognostications post). If not, I feel betrayed. I‘ve been using L since it first came out on CD’s in the mid-90’s, and have spent over $28,000 on it (14k titles). I’m retired now on fixed income and cannot afford subscriptions, and don’t want to be a “gamma tester”. Selah
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Will Logos continue to release non-subscription packages every 2-3 years that incorporate new features which are not cloud-reliant, as well as bug fixes?
If so, as one of those people, I’m happy (see my longer prognostications post). If not, I feel betrayed. I‘ve been using L since it first came out on CD’s in the mid-90’s, and have spent over $28,000 on it (14k titles). I’m retired now on fixed income and cannot afford subscriptions, and don’t want to be a “gamma tester”.
Jim has framed my concerns better than I could myself. I have the disposable income to spend a fair amount on Logos resources - but I'm also at a time in my life where I'm doing my best to avoid picking up new recurring charges.
I don't see why Logos can't offer a base subscription option with just AI services. Renting resources on top of that could be optional. A basic 500 resources could be recommended and included as the default, with personalizable options to eliminate the resource rental from the subscription cost or add to it for a higher monthly subscription cost. Including the option to receive immediate feature updates/upgrades could be another optional addition to the subscription cost. Then, feature set purchases could be offered for those who do not want to subscribe for immediate feature updates.
The bottom line is that Logos is trying to overhaul things way too much with one broad stroke. Users need options. This will become apparent sooner or later. But for the sake of everyone, I hope Logos realizes this sooner (before the exodus begins) and presents options in the Fall right away when the subscription plans are officially released.
Will Logos continue to release non-subscription packages every 2-3 years that incorporate new features which are not cloud-reliant, as well as bug fixes?
New features have not been addressed, but in response to this feedback, Phil said earlier that they do not have intentions of dropping the perpetual license for some features in the future. But Logos has already decoupled bug fixes and software versions from the new releases, which is why you are on Logos 33.x not 10. They have committed to continue making updates for OS upgrades and bug fixes for existing customers because the software engine itself is, and always has been, free.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
Logos has already decoupled bug fixes and software versions from the new releases, which is why you are on Logos 33.x not 10. They have committed to continue making updates for OS upgrades and bug fixes for existing customers because the software engine itself is, and always has been, free.
This seems to be quite a critical point which has not been apparent to me up to now.
If that is the case, and I purchase Logos 10 today, will I continue to get all the engine updates in the future but without new stuff 'turned on'? If so, that changes the landscape of the discussion quite significantly.
Is it true to say that all users of Logos are running the same engine?
No, but rather they could be, if they chose to take the free update (or were on an operating system version that supported it).
Do those who stayed on [the] Logos 9 [feature set] still get the engine upgrade but with the newer features 'switched off'?
That's correct. The license gating is at the feature and sub-feature level, such that new functionality simply won't be turned on without the new licenses.
If the engine is free, does that mean that an upgrade to Logos 10, for example, simply consist in a new set of content and feature licences?
That's correct. There are some basic updates that we choose not to gate, which everyone gets by updating to the latest software application, but >95% of the new value is gated and available only to paying customers.
If that is the case, and I purchase Logos 10 today, will I continue to get all the engine updates in the future but without new stuff 'turned on'? If so, that changes the landscape of the discussion quite significantly.
That's correct.
This seems to be quite a critical point which has not been apparent to me up to now.
If that is the case, and I purchase Logos 10 today, will I continue to get all the engine updates in the future but without new stuff 'turned on'? If so, that changes the landscape of the discussion quite significantly.
Yes.
Everybody is on Logos 32 or 33 (depending on if you have beta testing turned on), whether they are on the free version of Logos, Logos 4, Logos 9, Logos 10, whatever. The versions are when they release new collections of features and new books, but the software gets updated more or Iess like clockwork. For a while, early access to the next engine was a perk for purchasers, but after a few months, the new free features and the new engine have always been shipped to everyone. Logos 10 added new features above Logos 9 and gave me a chance to get new books at a discount. But if I had never upgraded, I could still use Logos 5 (my first version) on Windows 11 with the new engine and more features than when I bought it.
I think the reason that was not made more clear for you, as a new user, is because that has always been Logos's practice and this communication was targeted to existing customers. The engine is free, and updates are free. You get all of the features you have paid for. Major releases may add new features, some of which are free and some of which will be turned off unless you pay for them. You will be able to access your books in perpetuity, and the features you have paid for in perpetuity (as they mentioned, occasionally some features get killed because they don't work out and have very few users, but this is very rare and never anything at the core of the software).
I'm not Logos staff or an MVP. I have just used it almost every day for almost 10 years as a pastor and writer, and would hate for you to miss out because of a misunderstanding.
Edit: Somehow I missed the last page of this discussion and didn't see that you had already been given an authoritative answer.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
Will Logos continue to release non-subscription packages every 2-3 years that incorporate new features which are not cloud-reliant, as well as bug fixes?
"Packages" is a bit ambiguous, since Logos is made up of three parts:
Here's our current thinking on each:
1. Software: Since most users are on the same version of the software and we regularly release bug fixes and maintenance improvements, everyone would continue to get those regardless of whether they're a free user, a subscriber, or a base package owner not on a subscription.
2. Feature Sets: This is how we grant access to the premium features not included in the free software applications. What we're currently exploring is moving new feature set licensing to subscription only (while continue to respect users' existing feature set licenses), though it's possible that there could be a smaller place for ongoing perpetually licensed feature sets for some offline features. That's the major topic of this thread.
3. Libraries: We plan to continue to offer libraries via our existing perpetual licensing model along with dynamic pricing. We haven't yet decided if we'll refresh them every two years, move to an annual release, or something else.
2. Feature Sets: This is how we grant access to the premium features not included in the free software applications. What we're currently exploring is moving new feature set licensing to subscription only (while continue to respect users' existing feature set licenses), though it's possible that there could be a smaller place for ongoing perpetually licensed feature sets for some offline features. That's the major topic of this thread.
This is indeed the main issue.
Over the last few years and with the Logos version now in the double digits (10), I have sometimes wondered to myself: are they running out of new features to add? It must be a challenge to continuously come up with new ideas for features to develop and implement every two years. I feel like we've already passed the point of diminishing returns on new data sets...
(I still don't want to subscribe just to get AI features.)
This is indeed the main issue. [feature policy]
Phil earlier called it "feature gate" ... more like Featuregate. Bad humor.
So, far we're on p20 and we seem to be at 'all unpaid-for features (existing and new) are headed for subscription (but they're still thinking)'.
I'm personally ok with that ... I ended my feature-itis maybe 4 years back. If they want subscribers to fund my Logos, fine by me. Well, that is what it works out to, if their vision works. Their older visions didn't.
But what DOES concern me, is younger pastors. A gentleman mentioned this, a ways back. Bible software, early on, locked digital books to resellers (as also Amazon). You needed to keep a close eye on 'how much' and company survival.
The new pastor now also needs to keep an eye on subscription price (like apartment rent). And changing content. And can a new owner ... well, start thinking again.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
I have sometimes wondered to myself: are they running out of new features to add? It must be a challenge to continuously come up with new ideas for features to develop and implement every two years.
We're definitely not running out of ideas. We could easily fill up 10–20 years of roadmap work for the ~40 developers working on our core Logos product. You're right, though, that we're doing fewer brand-new feature additions and more focused on evolving the fundamental components of the application to ensure they're rock solid and ready for the next generation of global Bible students.
Thanks Phil and I do understand what you are saying (as far as you've gone with it).
Let me try to pin this down a bit.
"New features" might be classified in three categories:
1. Those that naturally and readily *could* (from a programming and horsepower perspective) be incorporated in the local-PC engine+dataset, without requiring a subscription, but activated alternatively by "packaged" releases (a la L11, L12) every 2-3 years.
2. Those that absolutely *require* online cloud support (LLM AI) with lots of CPU horsepower, and naturally would be offered only via usage-metered subscription.
3. Those that might take a simplified local-PC form, but could be enhanced by online AI.
My concern and core question is relative to #1 ... have y'all FIRMLY DECIDED yet whether you will (essentially) ALWAYS include new features in category #1 in the local-PC engine? If so, hurrah! If not ... then imo you're pulling the rug out from longtime users.
MANY OF US DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO BE ONLINE to use the software.
I truly, sincerely hope and request that y'all take a path that provides offline use of new features that are practical to implement on the local-PC.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Phil, thank you for bringing some clarity to this. For me, locking down the policies you articulate in numbers 1 and 3 would go a long way towards making me more comfortable.
1. Software: Since most users are on the same version of the software and we regularly release bug fixes and maintenance improvements, everyone would continue to get those regardless of whether they're a free user, a subscriber, or a base package owner not on a subscription.
3. Libraries: We plan to continue to offer libraries via our existing perpetual licensing model along with dynamic pricing. We haven't yet decided if we'll refresh them every two years, move to an annual release, or something else.
While I have a strong preference for being able to purchase a perpetual license for future offline features, it's the policies around the software and the libraries that are potential deal-breakers for me.
Mark and Phil:
In the FAQ section of the early-access page, it says under "What is Logos Pro" ..
"... These subscriptions mean you don’t have to wait until the next major version of Logos to get new and improved features. ..."
The IMPLICATION is that the "new and improved features" (not including AI-cloud services of course) WILL be in the "next major version of Logos", and also implicitly states that there WILL BE ongoing major versions (ie L11, L12).
Are both of those implications true, or is decision-making still in flux about them?
Please clarify as much as possible. Thanks.
PS: I decided to sign up for the early $9.99, to give it a fair try, AFTER watching the video clips that Josh posted at MP Seminars. Y'all might want to borrow those to help people see the tools in action. It *appears* that the AI can be "directed/restricted" to create its various summaries based solely on the user's owned resources, or a subset of them, or just a section or chapter of a particular book, or a sermon that they've written. Thus the AI's "summaries" don't necessarily suck in wild stuff from random web articles. THAT's GOOD. I'll be testing the early-access to see if the "search sets" are more flexible than Josh shows ... ie, a filterable checkbox-list of Library resources as a search option, or portions of a chapter, or maybe a collection of chapters from various books, etc.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
It *appears* that the AI can be "directed/restricted" to create its various summaries based solely on the user's owned resources, or a subset of them, or just a section or chapter of a particular book, or a sermon that they've written. Thus the AI's "summaries" don't necessarily suck in wild stuff from random web articles. THAT's GOOD.
I too agree — THAT's GOOD. If this were not the case, it is likely that I would not have signed up for the early $9.99. The ability to search for information from my own library as I deem fit, as opposed to “wild stuff from random web articles” is very important to me.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
In the FAQ section of the early-access page, it says under "What is Logos Pro" ..
"... These subscriptions mean you don’t have to wait until the next major version of Logos to get new and improved features. ..."
The IMPLICATION is that the "new and improved features" (not including AI-cloud services of course) WILL be in the "next major version of Logos", and also implicitly states that there WILL BE ongoing major versions (ie L11, L12).
Are both of those implications true, or is decision-making still in flux about them?
Please clarify as much as possible. Thanks.
The next major version will primarily be a software subscription (likely in four tiers—much like our feature sets) + a variety of optional but highly encouraged perpetually licensed content libraries.
There might be an option to purchase a feature set according to our traditional model, but we're not sure yet. If we offer such an option, it'll likely include only 1/4 to 1/3 of the all the new features that will be available in our subscriptions, due to the unsuitability of licensing AI and other cloud-backed features perpetually. We're not sure if we'll offer it standalone or as an optional or included component of a subscription, which improves your fallback position in the event that you stop subscribing. We appreciate the feedback we've received so far, and we'd invite others to share their feedback, too.
We're also not sure what role such a perpetually licensed feature set would play for new customers. We've discussed limiting such a perpetual feature set only to existing base package owners, but that may limit our ability to serve customers in areas with limited internet access, where extended offline support is more critical. As an aside, the majority of Logos desktop works offline, and this is true whether your license is perpetual or subscription. But the license checking and time-bombing behaviors differ by license type, which makes a perpetual license more suitable for extended offline use.
For our base package libraries, little will change. We may change how we organize and expose our various tracks of libraries (e.g., general vs. specialized), which may get refreshed at different intervals (e.g., general annually and specialized as needed).
May I ask that whatever you do, you pick a terminology including the names of the features and STICK TO IT!! The constant renaming of packages and their elements only add to the confusion of the casual user.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Phil, Mark
You have done a fairly good job in responding to everyone and relieving concerns. But not all have seen those responses.
This thread is now very long. You have received it seems, very valuable feedback. It may be helpful for your team to compile all the concerns with responses into a new thread so people who are not able to wade through the many posts can be brought up to speed, not just on the planned ideas Logos has, but also addressing the many concerns in one post. This helps in communication and relieve fears.
Bob was a master at communicating with his customers. A summarized thread might help, even if it is mainly re explaining what you have already originally explained.
Phil, Mark
You have done a fairly good job in responding to everyone and relieving concerns. But not all have seen those responses.
This thread is now very long. You have received it seems, very valuable feedback. It may be helpful for your team to compile all the concerns with responses into a new thread so people who are not able to wade through the many posts can be brought up to speed, not just on the planned ideas Logos has, but also addressing the many concerns in one post. This helps in communication and relieve fears.
Bob was a master at communicating with his customers. A summarized thread might help, even if it is mainly re explaining what you have already originally explained.
Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. We discussed doing something like this in a call earlier today. I agree pulling some of the specifics from the discussion that were light in the original message and the FAQs would likely be helpful for many.
Much of the thread has been answering questions addressed in the original communication, but I understand how it's a lot to process, given how nuanced many of these topics are, and it's tempting to jump into the discussion before fully digesting the announcement and FAQs.
Thanks to those of you who have helped us surface answers to the questions people are asking.
There might be an option to purchase a feature set according to our traditional model, but we're not sure yet. If we offer such an option, it'll likely include only 1/4 to 1/3 of the all the new features that will be available in our subscriptions
That 1/4 to 1/3 would go a LONG way in keeping your client base happy. And it would ensure that if people need to/want to unsubscribe for a time, they will not lose all of their features during this time. If no feature sets are sold in the future, 10 years from now a pastor who unsubscribes for a year will find himself with a version of Logos that functions very differently.
Mark / Phil:
I've checked ... of the 430+ books that Logos Pro is providing for $9/99/month, there is only ONE BOOK that is not marked as "Already in your library" for me (The Old Covenant, Commonly Called the Old Testament: Translated from the Septuagint)
So, it would seem reasonable to me that I should be paying a significantly lower monthly price than someone who has very few or none of those 430+ books in their library already.
Will that be true in the future? Will a $4.99/month option be available? I'll be happy to purchase that one book if necessary. [;)]
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Mark / Phil:
I've checked ... of the 430+ books that Logos Pro is providing for $9/99/month, there is only ONE BOOK that is not marked as "Already in your library" for me (The Old Covenant, Commonly Called the Old Testament: Translated from the Septuagint)
So, it would seem reasonable to me that I should be paying a significantly lower monthly price than someone who has very few or none of those 430+ books in their library already.
Will that be true in the future? Will a $4.99/month option be available? I'll be happy to purchase that one book if necessary.
Three comments:
Phil - How have I “gone in the wrong direction”?
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Phil - How have I “gone in the wrong direction”?
Do you mean that an existing customer of 25+ months years, 14k+ titles, $28k+ investment would pay MORE for the subscription than a brand new customer, or a different existing customer with 1/20th of that investment and library?
He said precisely the opposite of that.
Phil - How have I “gone in the wrong direction”?
Do you mean that an existing customer of 25+ months years, 14k+ titles, $28k+ investment would pay MORE for the subscription than a brand new customer, or a different existing customer with 1/20th of that investment and library?
I'm sorry for not being clearer. You were going in the right direction in terms of who would pay more and who would pay less, but you were starting with the wrong price when calculating what the price would likely be for existing base package owners.
You suggested it might look something like this:
Instead, it will likely look more like this:
I'll qualify, though, that we're still doing pricing research and testing, and we're still working through our pricing/discounting plans, the role of grandfathering, how long we'll grandfather, what the ongoing prices/discounts will be, etc. So don't quote me on those exact numbers.
My point is that the principle you articulated is informing our approach to pricing/discounting.
Phil - How have I “gone in the wrong direction”?
Do you mean that an existing customer of 25+ months years, 14k+ titles, $28k+ investment would pay MORE for the subscription than a brand new customer, or a different existing customer with 1/20th of that investment and library?
No, you've misunderstood him here. He meant that instead of you paying less, new customers will pay more. What they're proposing isn't unreasonable. One, albeit very oversimplified, way I like to look at it is that I will be paying for the new feature set included in Logos 11, except rather than buying the package in one bulk payment, Logos is asking me to pay in $10 increments throughout the next two years. This is because one cannot "own" the cloud-based features they are including in "Logos 11" in the same way that it was possible to "own" previous feature sets. The main way this thought breaks down is that one will never "own" the feature sets in this way. Thus, if I ever stop paying the subscription fee, I lose the features. Nonetheless, the bottom line is that this whole subscription thing is more reasonable than a lot of people believe. That said, they will have to be careful about how they implement these changes, being careful to respect the wishes of their client base in the little things, or there will be significant pushback in the Fall. Also, great marketing will go a long way in helping people understand that they're not getting a terrible deal.
Mark / Phil
What about the Mobile version? Since I'm paying the $9.99/month, can I get access to the AI from my iphone or ipad? After all, they already require access to the cloud for the Guide tools.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Smart Search is working for me in Android. Since mobile doesn't support the sermon editor obviously you won't get those features.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
Justin Gatlin ...
I just tried your query and got a different collection of answers, because I have a different library, which makes sense.
However, when I tried a more focused query, attempting to limit the scope of the search to just those authors or books that identify as being in support of "young-earth" ...
"how old was noah when the flood took place, according to young-earth creationists?"
... all it gave me was a bunch of hits that seemed like an answer to a question about old-earth vs young-earth creationists. I tried rephrasing twice and with that "two level" query, the Logos "smart" AI seemed to be unable to answer the question.
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Is it permissible to upload a "First Impressions" video? I made one today but want to ensure I'm not breaking any rules as an early access user of Logos Pro.
... all it gave me was a bunch of hits that seemed like an answer to a question about old-earth vs young-earth creationists. I tried rephrasing twice and with that "two level" query, the Logos "smart" AI seemed to be unable to answer the question.
I think we are getting a little out of scope, so I made a separate thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/221665/1290186.aspx#1290186
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
Mark / Phil
What about the Mobile version? Since I'm paying the $9.99/month, can I get access to the AI from my iphone or ipad? After all, they already require access to the cloud for the Guide tools.
Yes - with some features available today and some arriving in April.
Article summarisation and sermon assistant (iPad) are available today
Smart searching and search results summarisation are due in April
This is outlined in more detail at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/21081346488205-What-s-included-with-early-access-to-Logos-Pro
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
Although online features in general give a twinkle in the eye, it's not the path I'll be investing in. I mostly upgrade because of an offline feature that impressed me.
It's a great concern to me, as more and more features get online and more time is invested to develop online features, regular offline features will start to get maintained on the back burner. Maybe there will also be less or no new offline features. Some customers need features they can work with living in places that would look like the end of the world to others. I just hope that the next Logos will be worth the effort and money.
There is still a lot that could be done in Logos concerning new features that don't need to be online. What those features are will determine the future of mostly offline customers.
Thanks for the clarifying answers. As far as I know, only some future features that will only be accessible via subscription will be AI-based. Looking at the suggestions website, there are a lot of optimizations based on the Logos resource data.
I like to compare Logos to buying a computer. I'm investing in a device that comes with an operating system, whereas with Logos I'm investing in books that come with the operating system. We already paid to unlock features in some base packages and feature upgrades, but then we could own them. Now, we would have to pay for the library and continue to pay for the operating system that we will never own. The argument that we can still have the base engine could mean anything. The whole point of buying Logos books is to use them in the Logos app with all the features available.
I'll never read all 8,000 books in my library, but I like having lots of books and will probably buy more. I'm a little weird that way, and I like Logos. However, I suspect there are many users with much larger libraries. Being forced to pay monthly and still not owning the "operating system" that runs your library feels wrong. I don't care about the AI; it would be great if it was the only thing that worked on a subscription basis, but that's probably a vain hope.
The prospect of being able to keep the Logos 10 features is somewhat reassuring, but knowing that it's a dead end and that the features (both AI and non-AI) won't be replenished later if they're not included in a subscription model worries me.
It's very nice of the Logos staff to have this conversation with their customers, for which I am very grateful! I hope that the concerns expressed by many will influence future models for delivering the new features.
Having used Logos Pro for a week now, I have a few observations regarding the new illustrations feature. Embedding it into the sermon builder is unfortunate. I have tried to use Sermon Builder, but it is too restrictive and has limited printing capabilities. I have returned to my word processor. I am always searching for illustrations, but the suggested ones in the new feature are bad. The quote feature is very good but again it is only available in the sermon builder. Could both the illustrations and quote feature be built into the search window? If the illustrations feature could produce usable material, it would certainly make the subscription somewhat palatable.
If you are asking for people's opinions, I would prefer this as an additional add on apart from logos packages, I want to make sure I could get further upgrades apart from this AI logos pro that doesn't have the subscription. I always want to option to upgrade without a a subscription.
As a perspective NEW USER (only free version and monthly free books) who is CONSIDERING purchasing a "starter feature set" and the PTW Commentary series (in my shopping cart), I am all the more confused and not entirely sure this business will be around in 10 years for me access the items I have purchased.
FWIW... The confusion of your entire business model has done nothing but delay my purchase of ANYTHING. I just don't "get it".
Let me buy the software (I don't mind paying) and let me buy the books I want. This nearly "forcing" someone into a package with three trillion books is, well "fishy".
Seems the prudent thing is to BUY now so we don't have to RENT later.
I am just a stay at home layperson seeking to be drenched in the word daily.
Hmmmm.
As a perspective NEW USER (only free version and monthly free books) who is CONSIDERING purchasing a "starter feature set" and the PTW Commentary series (in my shopping cart), I am all the more confused and not entirely sure this business will be around in 10 years for me access the items I have purchased.
FWIW... The confusion of your entire business model has done nothing but delay my purchase of ANYTHING. I just don't "get it".
Let me buy the software (I don't mind paying) and let me buy the books I want. This nearly "forcing" someone into a package with three trillion books is, well "fishy".
Seems the prudent thing is to BUY now so we don't have to RENT later.
I am just a stay at home layperson seeking to be drenched in the word daily.
The core software that you need to read your books will always be free. And we'll keep that software updated to fix bugs and work with the latest operating systems.
The discussion here is simply about the additional optional features. If you don't want those features there will be no ongoing costs to you.
I hope that you'll continue to offer the feature sets in the future. Many people around the world don't always have access to the internet and may not be able to afford a monthly or yearly subscription. Selling the feature sets would assist them and everyone else as well.
I own A lot of content for school and ministry and I will not be subscribing. With so many things moving to subscriptions, I am constantly evaluating which subscriptions to ditch. Netflix vs Prime vs Disney… comcast vs hotspot… and low Logos subscription vs free stuff vs what I’ve already got?
Subscription model will have the greatest impact on those who need to pinch the pennies for the slim years. This means Logos will cease to be supportive For bivocational Pastors like me.
I like ownership. I like the monthly free book. I like finding specific items by authors that I trust. I don’t want access to everything. This Ifeels like what I’ve invested in so far will no longer be a priority for Faithlife so this announcement is a huge loss For me As logos had become my favorite Bible study tool.
I truly hope that the subscription model will not become the main product but an optional one and that what I’ve invested in will be a thing that gets passed down from o the next generation, but that particular idea seems to be coming to an end..
I do recognize that profit is king in these decisions as this is a business not a Ministry. And tailoring to those wishing to pay money monthly will the be most bang for buck for the benefit of the business. But it’s a loss for me, who has really enjoyed the idea of a library that I own, tailored to my ministry, that will continue to grow as new resources are added. Its been an awesome ride. Sad to see it come to an end.
Guys, I'm not particularly thrilled with subscriptions either, but Logos is not going to stop selling books. That fear is unfounded.
Its been an awesome ride. Sad to see it come to an end.
We have very little concrete information right now, but from what I've heard, things are going to be ok. I would be very surprised if your ride with Logos is coming to an end. Most of what you love about Logos will likely continue without much change. Nothing has been launched yet; they are simply testing the waters and gathering feedback.
I own A lot of content for school and ministry and I will not be subscribing.You realize you can continue to use Logos without subscribing to anything, right?
Mark you’re a wonderful apologist for this move. You’ve been a busy boy!!. 
You also might be missing the main point of my concern, that smaller fish like me who wish to curate their own libraries on their own budgets will no longer be the focus of future marketing. Also, past purchases were based in some part to continued development of the ownership Of my library. The development part currently being on trial. These things all feel like a loss to me of a product for which I’ve been a very loud advocate within my own circles. I will likely never feel comfortable with AI created explanations, summaries, teaching and illustrations. Ive seen the demos and I don’t like it. I don’t think delegation of hermeneutics and application of scripture to a crowd mimicking A.I. will ever be a wise or a good move. I will likely also never feel great about subscription (rather than ownership) based biblical libraries. Especially in light of adding up the cost of all the subscriptions out there now And the instability of the marketplace, and the instability of the finances of so many small church and bivocational pastors.
This shift feels like a major loss because it’s not something I am in the position to support.
Hey Mark,
Truly appreciate you and the people at Logos. You guys have done a great job with the software. That said, I'd really appreciate the opportunity to purchase the features outright. Another subscription would not be something I'd be interested in.
Thanks,
Matt
I apologize if this has already been discussed. I am concerned about privacy. Will our notes be fed into the 3rd party AI service? Will we need to start taking notes outside of Logos to keep them private from a 3rd party AI service?
I apologize if this has already been discussed. I am concerned about privacy. Will our notes be fed into the 3rd party AI service? Will we need to start taking notes outside of Logos to keep them private from a 3rd party AI service?
The Discussion Questions Generator allows you to send individual sermon documents to AI services. We only send the specific content you request, and we never use this data to train AI, nor do we allow any of our technology partners to do so. We require our technology partners to use this data only for the purposes of our tool and not to retain it longer than is needed for that purpose.
So no, your notes will not be fed into a third-party AI service.
One vote: I have a substantial investment in LOGOS products, and I can see where this new business model is heading for the bottom line and growth at user expense. Especially in these economically unstable times, I have no interest in renting anything (a subscription).
As a consumer, keeping up with inflation and business costs, renting a virtual product is not in my best interest. If I cannot own it outright, I do not want or need it.
Additionally, as with who owns, operates, monitors, and controls the World Wide Web, who and where does AI come from (GIGO)? As excellent and valuable as AI seems, I see nefarious prophetic Biblical implications coming down the pipe.
If you subscribe today, you’ll get five new features (Smart Search, Search Results Summaries, Summarization Sidebar, Sermon Assistant, and Instant Dark/Light Mode).
I don't understand why a subscription would be required for instant dark/light mode.
I don't understand why a subscription would be required for instant dark/light mode.
In a normal launch year, you'd have to wait until the launch of L11 to get access to this feature, just like dark mode itself was originally only available to Logos 9 customers, not Logos 8 customers. But this year, people who subscribe are getting early access to features that would normally only be available in the fall.
We are not saying that this feature will forever be locked behind a subscription. A subscription is just the only way to get early access to this feature.
Thank you! I did look to see if it had been mentioned, but there are 26 pages of posts so I missed it.
Hi Mark/Phil -
Mark said: “We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates. ”
Many posts here have addressed the non-Ai feature set that *could* operate offline on local PC. I do understand that subscriptions will in those cases modify the local PC engine but only “unlock” new features if the subscription is live. It’s easy to do programmatically - requires a live WiFi connection. But the point is - the code for that feature IS local, not cloud based. (Again, not AI). Many posts have begged y’all to bundle those new local-PC features every year or two into a perpetual-license feature set as you’ve done in the past, so non-subscribers can purchase it. Of course, the code in the engine on the PC is the same … there’s just a flag in the config file somewhere that says “permanent unlock” (versus subscription required). I’ve written plenty of code myself that has those modes (plus scheduled end dates etc).
I explained all that so other users get the picture.
My question here is regarding IMPROVEMENTS to EXISTING features. For example, many are aware how limited and awkward the current Notes feature is (including highlighting). Y’all have said you are working on that. So - WHEN you make improvements (aka fix frustrations) to EXISTING feature, are you at Logos able to tell us now that all THOSE fixes and improvements (local PC based) will *definitely* be offered periodically in bundled feature sets?
That is, if we have the feature now but it works poorly, are non-subscribers ”stuck” with the L10 version of that particular feature forever?
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
My question here is regarding IMPROVEMENTS to EXISTING features. For example, many are aware how limited and awkward the current Notes feature is (including highlighting). Y’all have said you are working on that. So - WHEN you make improvements (aka fix frustrations) to EXISTING feature, are you at Logos able to tell us now that all THOSE fixes and improvements (local PC based) will *definitely* be offered periodically in bundled feature sets?
That is, if we have the feature now but it works poorly, are non-subscribers ”stuck” with the L10 version of that particular feature forever?
That's a good question, and I'm afraid the answer is, "It depends."
Bug fixes will certainly be delivered to non-subscribers. So will compatibility updates.
Major improvements will certainly be delivered to subscribers only.
<edit>I expressed myself poorly there. What I was trying to say was that if we released a new feature, any improvements to that feature would be delivered to subscribers but would not be delivered to people who had bought the feature outright. I wasn't intending to rule out the possibility that in two years' time there might be a means to purchase those improvements outright.</edit>
But I appreciate there's a grey area in the middle, and that's what you're asking about.
There will undoubtedly be occasions when we deliver small improvements to non-subscribers, perhaps particularly when something feels broken. <edit>But that won't be the case for major improvements.</edit> But the bulk of improvements will certainly be subscription-only.
Thanks Mark
Let me try to focus the question about grey areas a bit. I’m concerned about legacy support issues.
Let’s imagine that Logos staff finally decide to clean up all the awkwardnesses and documented limitations of the notes+highlighting feature(s).
Let’s imagine that a lot of users have previously created hundred of thousands of notes that use various features of the existing Notes+Highlighting. Finally, let’s imagine that your cleanup of Notes+Highlighting is so extensive that you need to replace a major portion of the existing code, and that the 2.0 version can do the same things as before, plus a lot more things, as well as fixing bugs.
You’ve said major new features will only be by subscription. I presume a wholesale rewrite to a 2.0 version (my example) would be in that subscription-only category.
So, let’s say your subscription users get all existed and start adding a zillion new notes, using the new features, and they ALSO go back and edit a lot of their old notes to take advantage of those new features. This means presumably that the “tags” hidden in the Notes files will be new and improved, to support those features.
Finally, say that some of those subscribers fall on hard times (or retire and go on limited fixed income as I am), and can no longer afford the subscription. So, they cancel it. In that case, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR NOTES?
1. Notes created before the 2.0 version that weren’t edited.
2. Notes created after 2.0 version that heavily use the new features.
3. Notes created before 2.0 but edited after.
As a programmer, I know how messy and frustrating it is to write code to support both legacy and current operation, especially when user-created files are involved. And I know how upset users get if you destroy or mangle their files.
So in the specific (reasonable) scenario I outlined, would Logos “certainly” provide a perpetual license option for the 2.0 Notes+Highlights?
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
Finally, say that some of those subscribers fall on hard times (or retire and go on limited fixed income as I am), and can no longer afford the subscription. So, they cancel it. In that case, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR NOTES?
This is a highly hypothetical scenario, but I will say that we're very careful with user data, and we take our responsibilities seriously. We've gone through at least two transitions to new note formats through the years and kept user data intact, even to the extent of cross-syncing between new and very old clients running different versions of notes.
Mark - you gave a VERY limited answer to my carefully outlined question. Please don’t dodge it by describing what you did in the past, which was NEVER offering features SOLELY by subscription.
**Please go back** to my prior post (so I don’t need to repeat it here), and answer the question regarding the three categories of Notes. If this is “highly hypothetical“, what that implies is that it’s “highly unlikely” that y’all will ever do a thorough fix and upgrade to Notes. If so, eeek!
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Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean
**Please go back** to my prior post (so I don’t need to repeat it here), and answer the question regarding the three categories of Notes. If this is “highly hypothetical“, what that implies is that it’s “highly unlikely” that y’all will ever do a thorough fix and upgrade to Notes. If so, eeek!
It's highly hypothetical because it assumes that if we upgrade notes in the future:
We've never done that in the past, and I can't foresee a situation where we would do that in the future.
Let’s imagine that Logos staff finally decide to clean up all the awkwardnesses and documented limitations of the notes+highlighting feature(s).
Let’s imagine that a lot of users have previously created hundred of thousands of notes that use various features of the existing Notes+Highlighting. Finally, let’s imagine that your cleanup of Notes+Highlighting is so extensive that you need to replace a major portion of the existing code, and that the 2.0 version can do the same things as before, plus a lot more things, as well as fixing bugs.
You’ve said major new features will only be by subscription. I presume a wholesale rewrite to a 2.0 version (my example) would be in that subscription-only category.
The Logos NOTES feature, as well as the highlighters, are really bad. Even though I created my own highlighters, it's still bad because I'm limited by the tool as it was built and it has a lot of inconsistencies, almost a kind of "bug".
I still dream that Logos will implement the markdown language and a note system inspired by the Obsidian software. Only then will I start using the Logos grading system. Today I only use it to mark and save errors I find in books. Nothing more.
____________
"... And do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength." (Ne 8.10)
Major improvements will certainly be delivered to subscribers only.
But I appreciate there's a grey area in the middle, and that's what you're asking about.
No doubt there will be occasions where we deliver small improvements to non-subscribers, perhaps particularly on those occasions where something feels broken. But the bulk of improvements will certainly be subscription only.
I feel better about this change whenever Phil posts (he's always been stellar in the forums) and worse about it when Mark does.
At some point I suggest you guys put your heads together, get everyone one on the same page, and figure out exactly what you're doing. Further belabouring of the points is going to reach the point where it brings more smoke than light until you can give concrete and certain specifics.
A simple announcement that feature upgrade sets will be offered for purchase periodically to non subscribers, albeit without those features which require AI and cloud-based services, would be of enormous help in quelling the fears that are currently running rampant. Please directly address this question as soon as possible.
I feel better about this change whenever Phil posts (he's always been stellar in the forums) and worse about it when Mark does.
I don't agree with this statement. Both, Mark and Phil are trying their best to answer our questions and concerns. They could have just done what other companies do: who implement changes without consulting their customer base. I tried to read most of the comments in this thread and know one thing for sure: I am glad I am not Phil and Mark.
Software licensing changes and FL needs to have sufficient resources to further develop Logos. We all want current features to improve (e.g., overall usability, Notes, Prayer Lists,...) and most of us also want new features (e.g., AI). In the past, I justified giving into my book addiction with the argument that I help FL improved Logos. Now, it looks like some leaner years might be ahead for me. I pray that FL will have the wisdom to cater for the diverse needs of their customer base, the size of the previous investment in Logos, and changing income situations of Logos users.
Major improvements will certainly be delivered to subscribers only.
But I appreciate there's a grey area in the middle, and that's what you're asking about.
No doubt there will be occasions where we deliver small improvements to non-subscribers, perhaps particularly on those occasions where something feels broken. But the bulk of improvements will certainly be subscription only.
I feel better about this change whenever Phil posts (he's always been stellar in the forums) and worse about it when Mark does.
At some point I suggest you guys put your heads together, get everyone one on the same page, and figure out exactly what you're doing. Further belabouring of the points is going to reach the point where it brings more smoke than light until you can give concrete and certain specifics.
This was my feeling as well, mostly because Phil seems to have left open the possibility that they are still deciding if some major feature upgrades would be offered as separate one-time purchases that you would own, which Mark then slammed the door closed on what this statement:
Major improvements will certainly be delivered to subscribers only.
With the certainty that all new major improvements/features will be accessible to "subscribers only," it seems their decision has unfortunately been made.
Major improvements will certainly be delivered to subscribers only.
Thank you for your continued effort and time to answer our concerns and your patience. I just wanted to comment on the fact that for any customer who doesn't want to pay for subscriptions (but would still be willing to purchase new functions with a permanent license), there is no real future for their Logos Application. Furthermore, the more a customer has invested in this program and books in the past, the more they will feel obligated to switch to a subscription. It's disheartening that loyal customers are being rewarded in this manner!
PLEASE!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!! DO NOT DO A SUBSCRIPTION MODEL!!!!!!
I want to own the stuff I buy... I don't want to rent it from you...
Then don't subscribe. You'll still have access to everything you own just like you do now, and you'll still receive updates going forward.
Humor me while I say this in other words, "Relax, you don't have to subscribe. It's totally optional. You will just be stuck with the features you have now, forever. In 5 years? No feature upgrades. In 10? Still no feature upgrades. in 20?! You guessed it, still none. But relax, subscribing is completely optional."
Sure, knowing that software updates will continue to be provided free of charge is of great value. But it is easy to see why it is nonetheless an insufficient promise to many.
If you go to a subscription only model, I will leave your platform and encourage others to do the same. To me, there is a real danger in requiring a subscription to fully use something that I've invested over $20,000 into. Please do not go this direction. I have theological/moral problems with you requiring a subscription and not allowing users to own their libraries moving forward.
I have theological/moral problems with you requiring a subscription and not allowing users to own their libraries moving forward.
You'll still own all the books you've purchased, whether or not you choose to subscribe.
And let me add, as a newcomer to Logos who is intimately acquainted with the available Bible software solutions, good luck finding a better alternative.
If you go to a subscription only model, I will leave your platform and encourage others to do the same. To me, there is a real danger in requiring a subscription to fully use something that I've invested over $20,000 into. Please do not go this direction. I have theological/moral problems with you requiring a subscription and not allowing users to own their libraries moving forward.
That's not what is happening. Please see the original post:
Will I be forced to subscribe to Logos in the future? What about all the books I’ve already bought?
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment. Your books are your books. Subscriptions are for those who want access to the latest improvements, which aim to help you uncover deeper insights in less time.
This puts us with no improvements unless we go subscription. I would rather be able to pay for new features. This is what the rest of the people are saying. Again there are some people who are on limited income. It is a good possibility you will not retain them as customers.
This puts us with no improvements unless we go subscription. I would rather be able to pay for new features. This is what the rest of the people are saying. Again there are some people who are on limited income
I want to be able to buy books in 2025...6...7...etc. The improvements I would need are ones Logos installs to enable me to use these books. I highlight, read the Bible verses, read the subscripts, + create a few notes.
Say I say no to a subscription; Would I then be unable to buy new ones 2,3,4 years down the road?
Hey, a new Tom Schreiner book comes out in 2026. Because I didn't subscribe, I can't buy it. Is this my Logos future?
Thank you Mark for your answer.
I'm always weighing whether something is a good, long-term investment of my resources. If Logos moves towards subscription only for feature updates, then I will likely move away from the platform, although I have 10's of thousands of dollars invested in it. I don't want to be dependent on a subscription-based service to access and fully use all my resources. I also worry about the long-term future. I want to be able to use my library in a full and robust way when disconnected from the internet.
I understand the possible benefits of incorporating AI into Logos. But I also worry about the risks. We've seen in recent days how biased AI can be towards liberal opinions. Won't that work itself into Logos results? Will we get specific data on which AI platform Logos is using?
I think an impasse has been reached. Most existing users want a path to upgrading and purchasing of perpetual licenses of on-computer features. The AI features are a novelty for many and don’t impress the majority of your long term customer base. I myself am willing to pay a small stipend at this point but in the end I want to have an improved platform when I cut the Internet and subscription. A lease to purchase plan with clear commitments is palatable. I see this somewhat comparable to investing in two or three year upgrade purchases. I can’t say that everyone will like my idea but it is a better compromise than what is being seen as a line in the sand. Respectfully, Kevin
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
This doesn't make sense. Why ask for feedback regarding if people would like to have (limited) purchasable feature sets, only to slam the door shut one week later? Sure there have been some people who said they don't see the need for purchasable feature sets, but for the most part the answer from the user base has been, "Yes please!" Why ask, if you won't take the feedback into consideration?
I will probably subscribe because I believe in Logos Bible Software but I have not needed AI ever. The bible software functions great so why would I even try it?
According to this I am eligible, but when I click on "manage subscription" it just shows me my Faithlife Connect Essentials (no library) annual subscription and lets me edit my credit card. Nothing shows up about Logos Pro. So, the question is, am I missing something on the site or is my Faithlife Connect Essentials package not giving me all the features that I thought it was? What do I need to do to subscribe?
So by way of summary, followed by a few questions and opinions:
In about 6 months, when there would usually be a new version of Logos, there will be a new version of Logos but with differences.
Some questions:
That's probably enough questions for now.
Personally, although I understand the reasoning behind it, I'm not a fan of the subscription model. From what I've seen of what's available on Logos Pro (admittedly, just a quick glance), I'm somewhat underwhelmed. Certainly, I don't want a asystem deciding what my most relevant search results are and then summarising them; I can estimate that for a search just by looking at what book the result is in. The summarisation sidebar might be useful; one of the disadvantages (in my opinion) of electronic books is that it's much more difficult to flick through a chapter to get a feel of whether it'll be useful. The Sermon Assistant does not seem to be of any use to me at the moment, although I wouldn't rule out it having some uses (although not much) in the future.
Like many here, I've invested a lot in Logos over the last few years. Not only do I not want to lose the benefits of that, I also want Logos to succeed because it is a good thing.
Verbum will have its own subscription model along the same lines.Thank you, Bede you did a good job summarizing. This final observation surprised me. Has it been indicated that Logos and Verbum will no longer come joined and therefor require separate subscriptions?
Another question arises. As an early adopter when the new tiers are finalized will they come at a special price advantaged to those who chose to support the advanced roll out?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
Verbum will have its own subscription model along the same lines.Thank you, Bede you did a good job summarizing. This final observation surprised me. Has it been indicated that Logos and Verbum will no longer come joined and therefor require separate subscriptions?
Thank you Beloved Amodeo. The summary was as much to get my mind clear on it as anything else; if I've misunderstood anything I hope people will correct me.
I think it's going to be similar to now. At the moment, I have principally Verbum, and then I buy some Logos libraries as well. Also, I've downloaded both Verbum and Logos software engines. Books, features, etc. run on both, except there is a slightly different interface for some bits, although not the ones I use most. With version 10, there was a difference in the feature sets, so that when I had the Verbum full feature set I still had to pay a little (using dynamic pricing) for a few features in Logos full feature set. My question is whether the same thing will apply. If they merge the feature sets again, of course, the question becomes irrelevant.
Will the engine update be at the same time for everyone or, as now for those not upgrading, about 6 months later for those not subscribing?
It will be at the same time for everyone. Many improvements will be restricted to those who upgrade though.
The current feature sets are slightly different for Verbum compared with Logos. Is this going to continue? If so, will there be dynamic pricing (as now) for someone subscribing to both feature sets?
It's very likely there will be some differences between the two feature sets. We haven't yet discussed whether there will be a combined option.
The subscription for Logos Pro includes, presumably classed as features, several books that are currently available to purchase as books (e.g., Lexham Geographic Commentaries). Will these still be available separately?
Yes, they'll be available separately. We don't intend to withdraw books from individual sale just because they're also in a subscription.
When the new model rolls out, will there be discounts applied for those who have already purchased most of the features included in 'Logos 11'?
Yes, discounts will continue.
The discounted price we're currently offering is not an early bird discount. It's a discount based on L10 ownership. There will continue to be a significant discount for L10 owners even after launch.
Few here would disagree LOGOS is the best study Bible software platform available for multiple reasons. All the people I have dealt with are simply incredible and a pleasure. The overwhelming majority are wary and opposed to the subscription model for logical, historical, and good reasons.
Few take the time to read the many terms of service (TOS) changes they are now bombarded with from banks to Amazon. Most of these business model changes have shifted from customer service, to they own you, there is no debate on that. If you do not take a lot of time constantly opting out (if available) of this or that, they control and use you.
LOGOS is a for profit (gain) business, and not a faith-based organization or charity. I have found no corporate statement of faith, etc. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that.
Thus far is sounds like these T.O.S. changes are set in concrete. Unlike the forming one world system, at least they are allowing a period of venting opinions. None the less, it appears they will join the ranks of the global system regardless of their customer base opinion, like it or not.
My number one concern is, if new features are subscription-based and, after a time, I find that I can no longer afford a monthly subscription, I will lose those features (and, I assume, any projects I have produced with them, since they will require the feature with which they were produced).
Being able to purchase permanent licensing, even if its sporadic and leaves me a bit in the dust, would eliminate this promise. While this isn't a crudial issue this early in the game (we are promised reversion to Logos 10), it will be come a greater concern as the software, and its features, develop further from the current version.
Great point Bob. If I start relying on the subscription provided tools to craft sermons and notes… then I can’t afford it anymore… there goes all my personal content crated with those subscription tools. So much of my study process involves imagining how I will access and use it in The future… Bible study? Sermon? Book I’m writing? Subscription really dampens that.
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
I'd like to add my voice to any encouragement to continue to bundle feature set upgrades as one-time purchases. I'm not very interested in the features that cost you additional compute on the server side (LLM integrations, etc.) and don't mind paying for the cost of new feature development but don't want to lose those features once I've paid for them.
It seems you already have ways to do "feature upgrades" with each new version of Logos, and I would hope for a bi/tri annual cycle of bundling new software features for those of us who do usually buy feature upgrades and/or new base packages with each cycle.
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
If you are asking for feedback, please know that I am unlikely to rent or subscribe to feature sets as one of your customers. I have no problem with you offering a subscription model for your customer base. I am sure some customers are pleased with that option. I have no qualms there. However, I am personally unlikely to go down this road. Therefore, eliminating the purchase option will likely have the effect of me spending less money on the software and books. I write this to simply appeal to you. Please keep the purchase option alive in tandem with the subscription option as you have done for so many years.
Disappointment and disgust does not cover how I feel. If faithlife prohibits me from buying feature sets in the future, and sells new features exclusively in a subscription based model, then I will be done with Logos. I will then sell my library and they will never get another cent out of me.
Disappointment and disgust does not cover how I feel. If faithlife prohibits me from buying feature sets in the future, and sells new features exclusively in a subscription based model, then I will be done with Logos. I will then sell my library and they will never get another cent out of me.
I hear Blue Letter Bible is pretty good.
For myself, I have no interest in a subscription model of Logos. The uncertainty regarding the future of feature set availability outside of the subscription model is concerning.
I suggest keeping the current model as it now is for those like myself who do not prefer subscription. By that I mean resource, feature set, dataset, etc., are maintained on a regular basis as they are currently. Then add the four tier subscription plans which will include all the AI related features for those who wish to use Logos as a subscription option.
Business wise it is most beneficial to leave and maintain the current format as it has been implemented; while, then adding subscription as an option for those who want to go that route. Less confusion, less heartache, etc., and both sets of customers, even future customers, are better served in this way.
For myself, I have no interest in a subscription model of Logos. The uncertainty regarding the future of feature set availability outside of the subscription model is concerning.
I suggest keeping the current model as it now is for those like myself who do not prefer subscription. By that I mean resource, feature set, dataset, etc., are maintained on a regular basis as they are currently. Then add the four tier subscription plans which will include all the AI related features for those who wish to use Logos as a subscription option.
Business wise it is most beneficial to leave and maintain the current format as it has been implemented; while, then adding subscription as an option for those who want to go that route. Less confusion, less heartache, etc., and both sets of customers, even future customers, are better served in this way.
Well said! This is what I hope they'll end up doing as well.
I also have no interest in a subscription. It doesn't make sense to me. But perhaps it might to some. Let those who want to buy it, buy it. Let those who want to pay for a subscription pay for a subscription. There doesn't need to be just one way to do it.
Thanks for the post, Mark. I was advised to post the contents of an email I sent to cs@logos.com yesterday in this thread to voice them in the forum.
In Christ,
NRP, FP-C, EMT-T
Firefighter-Paramedic/
Quantico Fire & Emergency Services
“We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.” 1 John 3:16
Thank you for the transparency regarding the move to a primarily subscription-based model with respect to feature upgrades. Since you have solicited feedback, I would just say that I would greatly value being able to purchase individual features over a subscription. I understand that features pertaining to AI might require a subscription, but I strongly suggest that Logos provide an option for feature sets that can continue to be bought outright (perhaps excluding the AI features). There are many features in Logos that I find incredibly value to own, but I may only use them a few times a year. I couldn’t justify a monthly expense for those features unless I was using them regularly. I expect that future feature additions might be similar, and I’d love to just be able to buy the features that I actually want and will use.
It’s possible that I may try out Logos Pro just to see how the AI features are, but I doubt I would keep a subscription just for AI features, and I would certainly not subscribe for other features. Based on review of many other comments and concerns, I think I am not alone in saying that I want the choice to buy non-AI features outright.
A secondary concern pertains to the long-term maintenance of features from previous Logos versions. I’m sure Logos has a plan in place to make sure that any previous features purchased will continue to be maintained and troubleshooted, but it would be better if Logos would make that explicitly clear for the comfort of users.
Thank you for all you do to make Bible study easier and more accessible, and may God provide wisdom as the Logos team navigates the path forward!
I’ve read most of the thread here, which is mainly speculative.
As a german user who became more invested (also financially) in Logos recently, I’d like to ask a few questions future plans concerning concrete resources whatever the future holds regarding subscription models. Will already existing / sold / bought resources curated? E.g.:
Lexikon der Kirchengeschichte (Lexikon für Theologie und Kirche – kompakt)
- Will it be linked to the Timeline?
- Will it be linked to the Timeline?
- The introduction is full of typos. I flagged some of them. Will there be a thorough review?
Das Evangelium des Markus (Wuppertaler Studienbibel)
- The introduction is full of typos. Will there be a thorough review?
Thanks in advance for answering these questions.
One way to look at this is that for years users have asked to be able to perform more loosely worded google type of searches. I remember a thread years ago when Bob Pritchett talked about this and discussed some of the technical challenges of bringing that into the desktop experience.
I think for some, Smart Search is a huge step in that direction and SHOULD BE CELEBRATED! Whether I would ever use 'AI' much in other things, even this very first implementation of enhanced search on its own has some has some significant benefits for digging around in a large library. The good news you can still stick with traditional searches if that is all that you want. Going forward, I will be using both and I can already see how it will save me time and highlight resources that I might not find as quickly. The exciting thing is, this is just the dawn of a new type of searching and it will only get better.
The point to make on this is that AI is here to stay, but it is a very, very broad topic (it is not just a chatbot) and will enhance a number of features. I also agree AI can be abused. We already use a lot of tech that assists us in ways that we have come to just accept as life. For example, my kids will use Apple Maps to drive to a store, but will never look at a map to check whether it is the best route or not. I have challenged them to think. Blind use of technology will be a danger for all of us and we need to be wise and discerning at all times. If a person doesn't want to use the elements connected to sermon prep, then don't do it. That is critical thinking that is required in this day and age, regardless of whether you use specific implementations of 'AI' or not. And to be fair, if Logos was not doing this, there would be some on these forums rightfully raising alarms that the platform is falling behind in how computer assisted Bible study could be advanced.
I applaud Logos for pushing the boundary into new things and exploring ways to invest in the platform. The apps could use huge investment in existing features (i.e. notes) and the Bible software market in general has lost a lot of its innovative edge. In recent years we have lost Bible Works and WordSearch. In the premium Bible software that mostly leaves Olive Tree and Accordance. Accordance has had its own issues in the last couple of years and have not indicated even the slightest capacity to innovate on this kind of stuff as they try to deliver on a multi-year promise to have a web app and advanced syncing. To Logosians, these are age old technologies that we have come to accept on this platform as status quo.
Even this type of dialogue with users, can also be assumed as status quo. I have seen threads like this locked on another Bible software forum when management did not really want to listen to their most active users. I think Logos has been very wise to engage in a prelaunch phase with its user base as it charts new territory. It's not an easy task - we have users that have spent 10's of thousands on the platform over the years, and then those that are joining now that might take years to catch up in building a library that advanced features need. I would have done the same thing by having this consultation and rolling out a prelaunch preview. I think this positions Logos for success for whatever they ultimately launch this autumn.
There has been a number of comments made by management on the ongoing free base software, continuation of perpetual licenses, possible opportunities to buy older feature sets out right and perhaps even graceful exit paths for loyal users that subscribe for many years. I personally trust and believe they will find the right combination of things to drive innovation and sustainability. No company is infallible and I have made my critiques to Bob on more than one occasion, but this thread indicates that they are endeavouring to do the right thing, and are listening. Again, management engagement like this is not seen everywhere.
I for one am very happy to pay for a subscription to invest and receive early access to enhancements and new innovations. Waiting for two years for significant improvements is an eternity in this age of software, and if we can work through the change management of this to give Logos the investment money it needs to drive the product forward, whilst protecting our long term investments in perpetual licenses and residual value, we just might have the best of the past, while we adapt into the future.
I don't like the sounds of this, though I am a Connect subscriber, and have been for years, I really like the idea of just fully owning the full feature set. Having access to books is one thing, but the whole point of buying with logos is because of the feature, and data sets you offer. Moving to subscription plans permanently will be an end for me. I don't care much about AI, since I have taken endless hours with MP seminars and "Learn Logos" to actually learn how to use logos and since I've sub'd to logos pro, I haven't used it much because we are only allotted a certain amount of "credits" to use the AI with and once that is used up we wont be able to even use the feature, not only that but the AI in logos is trash, rightly said..
I sub to faithlife connect essentials because I get the full feature set, the 17 LRC, and 4 free courses a year discounts on Lexham press items and the 2% cashback in credit at the end of the year. I would never want to change that for AI features I would hardly use. The books offered in the Logos pro are not useful, every one already has enough commentaries for a lifetime with the base packages, and trust me when I say I own enough base packages for a lifetime out dated magazines that report on current events such as world news in a biblical sense? ..... I'll pass on the bible study magazine, even though I am reformed and this is a product by Ligonier.
More useful things would be dictionaries such as AYBD or IVP Black or the Pocket series, which I already own all these items. The only thing I would really like are rentals of VERY expensive commentaries that cost like $1500 - but then we have March Match up every year to get these at a huge discounted rate. If accordance didn't look like Windows 95 I would have switched along time ago. Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner. I know you guys use the "times are changing" excuse but the true reason is ownership greed. Sad.
Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner.
When did this happen? Who owns it now?
Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner.When did this happen? Who owns it now?
Scooter, you need to keep up! Last year a venture capital group bought majority share. Looking at their other investments, looks like they try to nudge smaller companies with promise, for success. Being 'secular' or 'greedy' depends ... more like Bob finally got rewarded for all those years of scrimping.
But it illustrates, that the Logos cheerleaders hopefully don't use the same rationalizing, for their 401 investments. New owners can be good. Can demand better management. And can sell to other new owners. Forever got shorter, last year.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner.When did this happen? Who owns it now?
Scooter, you need to keep up! Last year a venture capital group bought majority share. Looking at their other investments, looks like they try to nudge smaller companies with promise, for success. Being 'secular' or 'greedy' depends ... more like Bob finally got rewarded for all those years of scrimping.
But it illustrates, that the Logos cheerleaders hopefully don't use the same rationalizing, for their 401 investments. New owners can be good. Can demand better management. And can sell to other new owners. Forever got shorter, last year.
DMB
What venture capital group bought them? This is the first that I heard of this too.
I know things have been changing all along. Major staff who were greatly involved are no longer around.
This is really concerning. It is understandable why they are making this major change.
They need to make a profit for those who have major share.
This is all understandable because as one individual said, the company is not a Christian Non-Profit.
It is a business. It is nice they are still listening to their user base.
Forever may not be very long.
Specially after the selling of logos to a secular owner.When did this happen? Who owns it now?
Scooter, you need to keep up! Last year a venture capital group bought majority share. Looking at their other investments, looks like they try to nudge smaller companies with promise, for success. Being 'secular' or 'greedy' depends ... more like Bob finally got rewarded for all those years of scrimping.
But it illustrates, that the Logos cheerleaders hopefully don't use the same rationalizing, for their 401 investments. New owners can be good. Can demand better management. And can sell to other new owners. Forever got shorter, last year.
scooter indeed needs to keep up!! Are you allowed to whisper their name here, so I can look at their other investments, as well??
Logos is now a commodity, one egg in a dozen-sized paper mache little box. You have 401's; we in Canada have RRSRs. You never buy too many small cap firms. When they fall, they fall right off the bridge.
I like 'Forever got shorter, last year.' When I was 5, we dropped down into North Dakota + turned left, coming back into Canada on the Macinac Bridge. That bridge felt forever to a 5 year old. And very, very high. When I now picture forever, that's where I am. It felt dangerous, but I knew Dad was a steady hand at the wheel.
A sub allows the owner to have less legal obligation to a participant, I would think, although I am not a lawyer.
I haven't got time to go through this entire thread, but have seen the main gist of where things are headed, and hopefully, understand most of what you and your team are trying to reassure us with.
I appreciate that subscription models help software companies, but they don't always help customers. May I add my voice to those who say please don't make it subscription only for new features: split the AI features off, if you need to have a subscription for them.
I have always avoided subscriptions and will continue to do so, because I think it's a better way to steward my limited resources and I prefer to own things rather than rent them.
Your team have said a lot about those who own Logos 10 full feature sets, but very little about those who have only partial feature sets.
I'm not a pastor but preach regularly in my church and also run a small independent ministry. I therefore recently purchased the Preaching Suite Essentials package to help me with my preaching and teaching.
Please tell me that the promised ability to edit sermons on mobile will still be made available to those who don't subscribe but have bought the feature on desktop.
Also, I got the preaching suite feature set without already having the Starter/Bronze/Silver feature upgrade (I have used Logos since L4, but couldn't afford to upgrade each time), but would love to be able to get the other features in L10 without having to get a subscription.
Would you please make it possible to at least be able to get the other feature upgrades that are currently offered for Logos 10, in an ongoing way? (Again, I couldn't afford a full feature upgrade in one go, but would be grateful for the opportunity to be able to step up gradually over the next few years)
So trying to get my head wrapped around this. What I think I hear is books will still be sold without a subscription. There might be a feature set sold also no subscription. Now if we don't subscribe the new features we get will not be updated? So what about previous features will they not be upgraded to? If you offer a feature set to be sold at launch it doesn't seem ethical to not update it. I have to be reading this wrong.
Now if we don't subscribe the new features we get will not be updated? So what about previous features will they not be upgraded to? If you offer a feature set to be sold at launch it doesn't seem ethical to not update it. I have to be reading this wrong.
They have said that bug fixes will be issued to everyone. Thus, if features are purchased, then updates that pertain to allowing those features to work as they were intended to work will be issued. This is different than a feature being improved or expanded upon. Such updates have never been given out for free. Rather, they have been included in the next batch of feature set purchases. I anticipate this would be the path going forward. Subscribers, however, would be issued these feature improvements immediately. For purchasers, however, I'm not sure that much would change from how it is today, as even now users must wait 2 years for the next set of feature upgrades.
1.I have 10 full features and still can't translate Greek to English; will that ever be fixed?
2.
will you be able maintain my permanent license (updates) properly or will it wane away..
3Will it be possible to subscribe and at the same time keep permanent licence,
Hi Mark,
Many thanks to you for putting together this very informative post about the changes coming to Logos Bible Software. As with many Logos users I am interested in what all of this means for our experience in using Logos. Over the years, I have paid thousands of dollars for both my Logos library as well as the upgrades to the program over the years. And over those years, we have been told that we will always get to keep our libraries and the tools/features we have purchased.
So, my question regarding this new subscription model is: If we decide to embrace this subscription model, do we still get to permanently keep both the libraries and tools/features we have purchased prior to shifting to a subscription? I am asking this because in your post here, you mention that we would get to keep our libraries, but no mention is made regarding us being able to keep the tools/features we have paid for.
Personally, I would prefer to purchase future feature sets, rather than subscribe for access to features/tools. But, I am willing to try a subscription, even though I am not really keen on AI.
Many thanks, in advance for taking the time to read over this and for replying.
In His grace,
Rev. Eric Burrows-Stone
In His grace,
Rev. Eric Burrows-Stone
So, my question regarding this new subscription model is: If we decide to embrace this subscription model, do we still get to permanently keep both the libraries and tools/features we have purchased prior to shifting to a subscription?
The answer to this question is a firm yes. This has been clearly addressed in this thread, but I'm certainly not going to take the time to sift through every post to find it, nor would I expect you to. This thread is almost getting too long to be helpful anymore.
This thread is almost getting too long to be helpful anymore.
It might be helpful if Faithlife made a FAQ page with succinct descriptions of their plans (as they are so far, with updates as more decisions are made) and answers to common questions.
This thread is almost getting too long to be helpful anymore.It might be helpful if Faithlife made a FAQ page with succinct descriptions of their plans (as they are so far, with updates as more decisions are made) and answers to common questions.
Perhaps they could also do a live Webinar with Q&A that gets archived to the Logos Pro page and linked in the forums.
So, my question regarding this new subscription model is: If we decide to embrace this subscription model, do we still get to permanently keep both the libraries and tools/features we have purchased prior to shifting to a subscription? I am asking this because in your post here, you mention that we would get to keep our libraries, but no mention is made regarding us being able to keep the tools/features we have paid for.
Yes, you get to keep both. (We do occasionally retire rarely used features, in line with our support policy. Recent examples have been Handouts and Faithlife Assistant. But that's the exception, not the norm.)
Cant thank You enough. I have tons of respect for how you’re handling the announcements, criticism and questions.
I did not see this question answered anywhere and was wondering,
how will user created content be handled under the subscription plan? For instance, it would be hard for me to recommend a product for someone to use in sermon creation if the potential to review their notes and sermon rough drafts disappears once they no longer subscribe to a particular tool set. Might that be a possibility with some of the content creation tools that are only available in the subscription based services?
Thanks again.
So, I would like to follow up on my previous response to Mark's post. After giving this serious thought, I have moved away from my initial willingness to "try a subscription." As someone who has used Logos for nearly a decade now and paid for each new release and the tools/features with each upgrade, I did so happily. Why? Because I love the software and what it is capable of... plus I was purchasing something I thought I would be able to own and use for the rest of my life and ministry. However, now I am seriously wondering if I was misguided.
I think Jim Dean's assessment is a fair critique:
"...from what I’ve understood from all that’s been communicated by Logos staff, in this thread and in emails, is that the decision they are still mulling over is whether to offer any further perpetual licenses to ANY non-AI features, at ALL, EVER. I don’t think they are at a loss as to know HOW to sell them - that’s easy. They’ve been doing it for three decades. The features will already be IN the code that is ON the local PC. I’m not sure people realize that. The subscription simply sends an unlock to tell the engine on the PC that the user is allowed to implement that feature for that day or month.
Their decision is SOLELY related to their income projections. Will they make more money by trapping users into permanent subscriptions, or lose more money by turning off customers who’ve been faithfully paying for years or decades. The new and future customers that don’t have tens of thousands of dollars invested aren’t trapped - they can more easily choose to walk away, use other tools, whatever … without that prior investment being a factor.
My point here is simple. Logos doesn’t need help knowing HOW to offer both subscriptions AND the option for periodic perpetual license feature upgrade-purchases. They just need to figure out which will make them more money.
If their concern was to do the best for their customers, they would offer both and not force hundreds of thousands or millions of customers to make a difficult, unhappy choice, possibly feeling betrayed in the process. THAT would be the path of integrity. "
So, if any Faithlife/Logos staff are paying attention to what I am saying here, this is where I am: I really am beginning to consider how much longer I will be able to use Logos. I don't want to be forced to make the choice between owning vs. subscribing. Please don't force any of us to make that choice. Please, let us decide whether we want to purchase one-off, or subscribe. (If you are concerned about the cost of running AI, I get that. But there is another option: make the AI features a subscription that are an add-on service that can be rented.)
In the end, I think it comes down to this: If you don't let us continue to make that choice, and you decide to shift towards only having your software available as a rental/subscription type of software, I fear that my days as a Logos customer will be nearing an end. (Thank God I never off loaded my physical library.)
In His grace,
Rev. Eric Burrows-Stone
AI is only going to become more and more of a thing as time goes on. I am excited to see how Christians can use it to the glory of God.
AI is going to become more and more of a thing as time goes on. I am excited to see how Christians can use this latest technology to the glory of God.
AI can have a negative impact or a positive impact depending on how it is used....just like the internet. I am excited to see how Christians will be able to use it for the glory of God.
AI can have a negative impact or a positive impact depending on how it is used.
And we tend to forget how widely we use it. Facial recognition to unlock our phone, Siri/Alexa voice recognition, even our thermostats to control house temperature ... all these are applications of AI.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
AI can have a negative impact or a positive impact depending on how it is used.And we tend to forget how widely we use it. Facial recognition to unlock our phone, Siri/Alexa voice recognition, even our thermostats to control house temperature ... all these are applications of AI.
Good point!
And we use AI to vaccum our house. Does a good job!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
I have been giving a lot of thought to the Logos Pro announcement over the last week.
I was a Logos Now subscriber for a couple of years. At that point, I think software companies and consumers were trying to wrap their heads around subscription models. Perhaps, FL was too early to the subscription model with Logos Now.
But lots has changed with software and subscription models since Logos Now. This seems to be the right time for FL to push Logos Pro. I appreciate Logos wanting feedback from its customers.
I plan on subscribing to Logos Pro in the coming days. I do think $9.99 is the sweet spot for the subscription price. I get subscription fatigue. But subscription models are here to stay. Over the last few years, I have paid many subscriptions for apps. Most don't stick. i currently have subscriptions to two apps.
If I am not mistaken, one of the Logos employees mentioned an audible like plan where subscription credits could be used toward the purchase of new books. What if there was an option for subscription credits to be used in purchasing wanted feature sets. Being able to use subscription credits may solve the issue with customers wanting to own feature sets. Some features sets of Logos I use every week; others I have never used. Future feature sets that I use regularly, I want to option to own them. Subscription credits for features would give me the option to own the ones I want without having to pay for all feature sets in the future release of Logos 11.
If I am not mistaken, one of the Logos employees mentioned an audible like plan where subscription credits could be used toward the purchase of new books. What if there was an option for subscription credits to be used in purchasing wanted feature sets. Being able to use subscription credits may solve the issue with customers wanting to own feature sets. Some features sets of Logos I use every week; others I have never used. Future feature sets that I use regularly, I want to option to own them. Subscription credits for features would give me the option to own the ones I want without having to pay for all feature sets in the future release of Logos 11.
This is a good idea. Kind of a rent to own model. This would help people not feel like they're wasting money subscribing to features and then either losing them when they need to drop their subscription or having to buy them and pay for them all over again after renting them for months/years.
I just followed the links to see the 430+ books in Pro, and almost every single title showed as already in my library. So I either have them via my Connect Subscription, or because over the years I've purchased "way too many books" here on Logos.com. Or both.
So for me, it seems right now the Pro would only add an AI search, so thats a Pass for me.
I'll review when my Sub comes up for renewal, and/or when the new details come out later in the year.
Responding to various concerns. I agree to whoever above warned of too much reliance on commentaries. I remember thinking that thought when using my first Bible Software (WordSearch) 33 years ago in my first pastorate. I wanted to be sure I got my messages first of all from the Lord. That said, over the years I have learned to check trusted commentaries and language dictionaries to assure I was on the right path with a given passage. Bible software has grown and developed to help this process. Indeed, the right software can greatly speed the process of "checking". More speed in my books to me has meant more time away from them and in the presence of the Lord (yes, I also hope to be in God's presence when I am in my books, too). With information more quickly available, and more quickly perused, I can do more of the heavy and profitable work of meditation on the Word, Bible memorization, and prayer. Bible software has done this for me. That said, I believe that AI has simply added to my speed in doing the grunt work of cross-checking myself with the work of others. AI makes it even faster. I think of the benefit of AI as I did when I learned that more RAM and a Solid-State drive could make my computer work faster. So in many ways AI benefits me by more quickly getting to stuff, summarizing stuff, recommending stuff for me. And when this happens, I can spend more time with prayer, meditation, and memorization. I am not here arguing the cost of things, nor how much Logos software engineers are paid. I expect to pay for these things, and will as the Lord leads. Just as my first Word Processor sped things up for me in Seminary (DTS 1984-89). Before that, because I don't type, I would hand write every paper, and my wife would type them out--painstaking and time-consuming work. Now with the word processor, I could do it all myself--typing, texting, copying. pasting. The job was so much faster. At the time, this meant more time for me to spend with my wife and kids when not in classes. The point here is that advancement in technology, to me, means--theoretically--two things: 1.) better access to critical information, and 2.) more time for important things--time with family and the Lord. I put the Logos AI advancements in this category, and I applaud them for this.
I would like to know more on how this new switch will benefit mobile only users. Does this mean that mobile will be on par with desktop. Will this new switch benefit Ipad users with Apple Silicone. Will features like passage Guide have more data sets and be on par with desktop. Can you please explain what this will benefit Mobile/Ipad users more.