EEC

What do you think about the new pre-pub Evangelical Exegetical Commentary? To the point, what do you think about paying all the money and not getting the complete set until 2016? It comes out one book at a time. Just curious.

P.S. I'm sorry to say that I don't know any of the authors. Can you share any experience you have in this area?

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Jonathan Sine

Valerie - Good questions! Some of the same I've been asking. I know and respect several of the authors. But if you have no preview of the format, it makes for a tough decision on such a large investment. With other sets (like NICNT, BECNT or NIVAC), one would usually have a copy or two to know whether to purchase an entire set. I find myself in the same boat as you. I am quite interested in the feedback of others.

Rosie Perera

There's a thread where others have been discussing exactly this point: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22500.aspx

I'm only familiar with a few of the authors' names: Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., Ronald Youngblood, H. Wayne House , Eugene Merrill, Stanley E. Porter, and John Oswalt. I've got books by all of them in my current Library.

There's a write-up on Walter C. Kaiser, Jr. in Bible Interpreters of the 20th Century. He taught at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School for many years and later at Gordon-Conwell, which he served as president from 1997 until his retirement in 2006. (This latter date from his Wikipedia entry as the other resource wasn't as up-to-date.) He is the author of the following books in my Logos library:

Hard Sayings of the BIble
A History of Israel: From the Bronze Age Through the Jewish Wars
The Majesty of God in the Old Testament: A Guide for Preaching and Teaching
The Preacher's Commentary Series, Volume 23: Micah / Nahum / Habakkuk / Zephaniah / Haggai / Zechariah / Malachi
Toward an Exegetical Theology: Biblical Exegesis for Preaching and Teaching.

There's a Wikipedia page on Ronald Youngblood. He is the author of the following book in my Logos library (and co-editor of a couple of others):

The Heart of the Old Testament: A Survey of Key Theological Themes

Here are the "About the Author" blurbs on the rest of them from the Logos website:

H. Wayne House (Th.D., Concordia Seminary, St. Louis; J.D., Regent University School of Law) is Distinguished Professor of Biblical Studies and Apologetics, Fatih Seminary in Tacoma, Washington, and Professor of Law, Trinity Law School in Santa Ana, California. He is author or editor of more than twenty books, including The Christian and American Law and Israel: The Land and the People. [From product description page for Christian Ministries and the Law.]

Eugene H. Merrill (Ph.D., Bob Jones University; Ph.D., Columbia University) is distinguished professor of Old Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas, Texas, where he has taught since 1975. He is also distinguished professor of Old Testament interpretation at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. [From product description page for An Historical Survey of the Old Testament, 2nd ed. which is among the books of his that Logos carries]

Stanley E. Porter is Principal, Dean, and Professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. His is also visiting Professor at the University of Surrey Roehampton, where he was previously Research Professor in New Testament, Professor of Theology, and Head of the Department of Theology and Religious Studies. He has published extensively in the field of New Testament studies. His works include Idioms of the Greek New Testament, A Handbook to the Exegesis of the New Testament and Semper Reformandum. [From product description page for Handbook of Classical Rhetoric in the Hellenistic Period.]

John N. Oswalt is Research Professor of Old Testament at Wesley Biblical Seminary, Jackson, Mississippi. A former president of Asbury College and former professor of Old Testament and Semitic languages at Asbury Theological Seminary, he also served on the translation team for the New International Version of the Bible. [From product description page for NICOT/NICNT - he did both Isaiah volumes]

Mark Smith

There's a little more discussion in this thread:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22500.aspx

I, too, am unfamiliar with most of the authors. However on the publication web site: http://www.evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/volumes/ you can click on an author's name to get some information about him (I think they are all males). I noticed degrees or employment at a number of well known evangelical schools. The listing also refers you to other publications of each author.

Paul N

After diving into the world of commentaries at bestcommentaries.com and then investing in them on Logos I have noticed that not all series turn out the way were originally planned. Some change publishers while other switch authors. Some authors die before their book is to be written and so forth. I could maybe see purchasing a set that was 2 or 3 years out but 7 years for Matthew, Mark, and Revelation is a long time!

BTW does anyone want to take a shot at when they think credit cards will be charged? I take it if it hasn't reached "in development" before the first book releases they'll push it through anyway.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167924#Comment_167924

I guess I found some answers just by reading around

The commentary series has been 5 years in the making (according to Logos on Twitter) and its already under development and not waiting to gain enough interest. This thing could be complete before Barnes Notes hits digital shelves!

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167924#Comment_167924

Its already reach in development. Logos is basically the publisher from what I understand so hopefully it changing hands won't be an issue and you will be charged the full amount when the first volume is published. I believe this is going to be a sticking point for many who would consider this set.

Mike Childs

The authors are solid, very solid. For example, John Oswalt's commentary on Isaiah in the NICOT is generally regarded as good as it gets on Isaiah. The others are all quality scholars.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167905#Comment_167905

John N. Oswalt is Research Professor of Old Testament at Wesley Biblical Seminary, Jackson, Mississippi. A former president of Asbury College and former professor of Old Testament and Semitic languages at Asbury Theological Seminary, he also served on the translation team for the New International Version of the Bible. [From product description page for NICOT/NICNT - he did both Isaiah volumes]

John Oswalt is now back at Asbury Theological Seminary.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167932#Comment_167932

I understand so hopefully it changing hands won't be an issue and you will be charged the full amount when the first volume is published.

Sorry Andrew I didn't phrase that very well. Does anyone have a guess when the first book will be released... and I guess after reading, it will be April 1, 2011?

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167939#Comment_167939

Does anyone have a guess when the first book will be released... and I guess after reading, it will be April 1, 2011?

Well, that's a good guess. If they announce it is going to be April 1, then that gives them some wiggle room. If they slip they can always say "we were only joking. April Fools!" [:)]

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167906#Comment_167906

I, too, am unfamiliar with most of the authors. However on the publication web site: http://www.evangelicalexegeticalcommentary.com/volumes/ you can click on an author's name to get some information about him (I think they are all males).

Dr. Coover-Cox isn't male but on top of tackling more than one of the minor prophets in the EEC she is the associate editor of Bibliotheca Sacra. I will no longer be in my twenties when her work is slated for release [:S] [;)]

Does anyone have a guess when the first book will be released... and I guess after reading, it will be April 1, 2011?

Well, that's a good guess. If they announce it is going to be April 1, then that gives them some wiggle room. If they slip they can always say "we were only joking. April Fools!"

Good thinking Rosie. We definitely need to keep an eye on this! Worst April Fools Joke ever!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167951#Comment_167951

I will no longer be in my twenties when her work is slated for release

Neither will I. [8-|]

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168005#Comment_168005

I will no longer be in my twenties when her work is slated for release

Neither will I.

Twenties ? That was so last century for me also Jack.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168012#Comment_168012

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the concept of getting charged $699 when the first volume is rekeased. [:O]

I do recognize that is a bargain for 44 volumes, but some of us may not be alive when the last volume ships.

Teresa

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168022#Comment_168022

What I am struggling with (other than the already mentioned paying up front on a set of commentaries where there have been no samples offered to view, along with the lengthy time span before it is finished) is the sheer number of great commentaries already offered. NAC, NIC, NIGTC, ICC, WBC, Lenski, CCGNT, Nicole, Ellicott, Alford, Pulpit, Lange, Baker, Baker Exegetical, Hermeneia, ABD, Barnes, Maclaren, Calvin (some in PBB) and others I have failed to mention. How many more does someone need to study the Bible? Do we ever reach a point of saying "I have enough"? Does the ECC have something different than those others? Will you know before you shell out? This seems way too risky given what I already have available to choose from that I don't have yet in my library.

Edit: It is EEC not ECC.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168012#Comment_168012

Twenties ? That was so last century for me also Jack.

Don't let the hair color (or lack thereof) fool you. I may be prematurely grey and bald. [8-|]

To be on-topic, I believe I will pass on this offer. In 2019, I will even be out of my 70s. Besides, I agree with some other posters that $700 is pretty stiff for when the first volume ships.

Keith Gray

I have had the blessing to study under many of the contributors of the commentary and they are all excellent scholars. I am looking forward to obtaining more of the scholarship when the volumes are published.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168139#Comment_168139

Twenties ? That was so last century for me also Jack.

Don't let the hair color (or lack thereof) fool you. I may be prematurely grey and bald.

To be on-topic, I believe I will pass on this offer. In 2019, I will even be out of my 70s. Besides, I agree with some other posters that $700 is pretty stiff for when the first volume ships.

It would be a lot easier to get excited about this project if I was 20 (or more) years younger.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168125#Comment_168125

Do we ever reach a point of saying "I have enough"?

not if you are a book buying addict. [:P]

How many more does someone need to study the Bible?

This always ends up being a personal question, but here are some ad hoc reasons why more commentaries appear:

The newer commentaries interact with more current journals, thinking, discoveries that impact the understanding or meaning of a text.
Their application/illustration section seems more relevant
They might be tied to a newer translation of the Bible
They are written by scholars people know and respect vs. guys in the grave
Format changes, font, english (or other language) style are more pleasing to the modern reader

Of course there are many more reasons, too (denominational or theological perspective, etc).

For me, I find that even with a myriad of commentaries, not all deal with certain parts of the text (what a particular phrase means) that I want input on--having multiple commentaries allows a better chance I will have one that deals with it. Or, perhaps they don't deal with the text in a particular way (some focus on particular language issues, others show the "big picture" of the book's overall flow, etc). Some commentaries are great for preachers, others for translating into new languages.

You will find commentaries that work for you, and overtime, might discover some that nudge you into a new direction or level of thinking.

Friedrich

To the point, what do you think about paying all the money and not getting the complete set until 2016?

While I am always a sucker for a "good deal," I am not in a financial position to lay out that kind of money for a set I know nothing about. I know of some of the authors, and they will probably produce good work--but I don't know that, nor do I know the type of commentary they will be producing. Logos should produce a great commentary that is using all the Logos 4 (and 5?) bells and whistles, but . . . I will likely not lay out 700 dollars upfront for 4 or so volumes a year.---unless my financial situation changes.

I would assume this will be a set I want, however.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168125#Comment_168125

What I am struggling with (other than the already mentioned paying up front on a set of commentaries where there have been no samples offered to view, along with the lengthy time span before it is finished) is the sheer number of great commentaries already offered. NAC, NIC, NIGTC, ICC, WBC, Lenski, CCGNT, Nicole, Ellicott, Alford, Pulpit, Lange, Baker, Baker Exegetical, Hermeneia, ABD, Barnes, Maclaren, Calvin (some in PBB) and others I have failed to mention. How many more does someone need to study the Bible? Do we ever reach a point of saying "I have enough"? Does the [EEC] have something different than those others? Will you know before you shell out? This seems way too risky given what I already have available to choose from that I don't have yet in my library.

That's my issue, too. I already have these commentary sets: Anchor Yale, Baker Exegetical, Baker NTC, Believer's Church, Wesleyan Tradition, Bible Lessons International, Bible Speaks Today, Calvin, CCGNT, College Press NIV, Continental, Exegetical Summaries, Expositor's, FOTL, Holman, Horae Homileticae, ICC, ITC, IVP NT Comm, JPS Tanakh, Lectionary, Life Application, Ironside, NAC, NIBC, NICOT/NICNT, NIGTC, NIC Application, Opening Up, Pillar, Preacher's, Preaching the Word, Pulpit, Socio-Rhetorical, Through the Bible, Tyndale, UBS Handbooks, Walk! Messianic Jewish, Wiersbe's "Be" Series, WBC, Zondervan (ZIBBC).

The only ones I don't have that are still on my "to buy" list are Hermeneia(*), Black, Lenski, Lange, Ancient Christian Commentary, Eerdmans Critical Commentary, Cornerstone, Reading the NT. But am I really going to use all of these?

Think I should stop now, and check into a 12-step program? [;)]

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168176#Comment_168176

Do we ever reach a point of saying "I have enough"?

not if you are a book buying addict.

How many more does someone need to study the Bible?

This always ends up being a personal question, but here are some ad hoc reasons why more commentaries appear:

The newer commentaries interact with more current journals, thinking, discoveries that impact the understanding or meaning of a text.

Their application/illustration section seems more relevant

They might be tied to a newer translation of the Bible

They are written by scholars people know and respect vs. guys in the grave

Format changes, font, english (or other language) style are more pleasing to the modern reader

Of course there are many more reasons, too (denominational or theological perspective, etc).

For me, I find that even with a myriad of commentaries, not all deal with certain parts of the text (what a particular phrase means) that I want input on--having multiple commentaries allows a better chance I will have one that deals with it. Or, perhaps they don't deal with the text in a particular way (some focus on particular language issues, others show the "big picture" of the book's overall flow, etc). Some commentaries are great for preachers, others for translating into new languages.

You will find commentaries that work for you, and overtime, might discover some that nudge you into a new direction or level of thinking.

Some good thoughts and very valid thoughts Dan. And at the same time Teresa question is also a very good one we need to consider:

Do we ever reach a point of saying "I have enough"?

From what I see and hear I like the concept, and when you work it out on a per volume basis it is good value, but beyond that its very difficult to truly assess if I really need it (yes as a bibliophile I want it , I want) . The fact of paying $700 upfront for a single volume is really too big an ask I have to agree. And it would even be difficult I think to make an assessment on just a single volume. The first volume might not be in our area of particular interest so might not get our attention, whether other volumes very well could. I really don't know who made the final decision to ask for the money up front but I do think its the wrong one. Users have been making if fairly clear for a long time that we need some sort of payment scheme for pre-pubs and this would have been the perfect opportunity if this was offered on a subscription basis. There have been some Lexham titles where you pay up front and get a part completed resource , with updates as they are ready. But these have involved a lot less money and pertain to a single volume. A $700 set that is going to be release over the next 10 years at least (some titles TBA on release date) is a very different ask of users, even loyal logos users.

(For international users the price point is literally a floating target and so it will depend on the world economy and exchange rates at the time of release on what it is really going to cost - an upfront payment could be a win over the long term but that could only be answered with hindsight)

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168182#Comment_168182

How many more does someone need to study the Bible?

I came across this article the other day which has some helpful thoughts on the value of different commentary sets:

Varieties of the Biblical Commentary: A Guide to Form and Function (William B. Badke)

I'm not convinced yet that EEC will offer something so new and different from the combination of all the other sets I have already that it would be a must-have. I've ordered it for now, just to lock the price in, but I will be making a final decision before Volume 1 ships. Hopefully by then there will be some sample pages available, and perhaps some reviewers will have been given a preview peek at entire volumes.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168190#Comment_168190

Dan Pritchett just posted this on the other thread where EEC was being discussed. Hopefully this will answer all our questions.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22500/168192.aspx#168192

Chris Thompson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168180#Comment_168180

Think I should stop now, and check into a 12-step program?

There is enough evidence to at least open such a debate.

...But First...Don't you think we should petitition Logos to produce a collection of Christian 12 step books?

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168446#Comment_168446

Think I should stop now, and check into a 12-step program?

There is enough evidence to at least open such a debate.

...But First...Don't you think we should petitition Logos to produce a collection of Christian 12 step books?

Ha, just refered a friend to the following 12 Step program... not sure if would be a popular title amongst the MAC users....

"The Twelve Steps of Apple-holics Anonymous" http://bit.ly/9ZQpjY

Probably not a good idea as a MAC Shipping Day Giveaway

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168454#Comment_168454

"The Twelve Steps of Apple-holics Anonymous" http://bit.ly/9ZQpjY

Cute. I haven't had a new desktop in 5 years, but I did get a Mac Book Pro last year. [8-|] I have spent too much on Logos; I don't have the funds to purchase a new Mac [:'(]

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167905#Comment_167905

I am most excited about the Genesis Commentary in the series.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168485#Comment_168485

Although I see some different traditions represented, it looked like the EEC has a heavier tilt toward Premillenial eschatology--would this be a correct assumption?

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169988#Comment_169988

Although I see some different traditions represented, it looked like the EEC has a heavier tilt toward Premillenial eschatology--would this be a correct assumption?

That's what I see as I look at the contributors I know well. I'm excited because it seems to be an under-represented group among the major commentators...it also happens to be my persuasion.

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167906#Comment_167906

you can click on an author's name to get some information about him (I think they are all males)

Gee, Mark.

I am surprised that Rosie did not jump right on this.

But in all fairness, I thought I should point out a remarkable opportunity for all the women to point their hostilities toward you. Unless of course, you are just making an observation.......

[;)]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170932#Comment_170932

you can click on an author's name to get some information about him (I think they are all males)

Gee, Mark.

I am surprised that Rosie did not jump right on this.

But in all fairness, I thought I should point out a remarkable opportunity for all the women to point their hostilities toward you. Unless of course, you are just making an observation.......

There was no need for me to say anything. I didn't even bother to verify the accuracy of Mark's statement. I just trusted him, that the authors were all males. It was actually a male who noticed and pointed out that there was one woman in the bunch. I wouldn't have recognized it. I didn't know Dorian was a woman's name. I'd read The Picture of Dorian Gray years ago but couldn't remember the sex of the subject. (Turns out it's about a man.)

Even if Mark had said "him" without his parenthetical comment and I had known there was a female author, it wouldn't have bothered me. Sometimes I do the same in a mixed context. Sometimes it's grammatically less awkward than the alternatives. The implication that women would want to direct hostilities at someone who uses gendered language is more troublesome to me than gendered language itself.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170932#Comment_170932

I am surprised that Rosie did not jump right on this.

Of course you saw I said 'I think...' so how can you jump on that? I thought wrong.

I have no problem with Rosie or anyone else pointing out the lone woman (so far) among the authors. Just seemed they were all men (I, too, think of name Dorian as a male name). Rosie is a fair woman so wouldn't score me on an innocent, but mistaken, observation.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170980#Comment_170980

So I'm really digging the orange and brown color scheme for the commentary set. Since this project is moving forward online was Logos responsible for whipping it up or was that decided before?

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170983#Comment_170983

So I'm really digging the orange and brown color scheme for the commentary set.

Gee I thought it was orange and black. This changes my whole thinking about this offer. [*-)]

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170931#Comment_170931

Although I see some different traditions represented, it looked like the EEC has a heavier tilt toward Premillenial eschatology--would this be a correct assumption?

That's what I see as I look at the contributors I know well. I'm excited because it seems to be an under-represented group among the major commentators...it also happens to be my persuasion.

[Y]

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170931#Comment_170931

Although I see some different traditions represented, it looked like the EEC has a heavier tilt toward Premillenial eschatology--would this be a correct assumption?

That's what I see as I look at the contributors I know well. I'm excited because it seems to be an under-represented group among the major commentators...it also happens to be my persuasion.

That's kinda weird, because to me it seems the opposite (well represented). Anyway, i was just wondering. Thanks for confirming my thinking. Looking forward to the series.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170983#Comment_170983

So I'm really digging the orange and brown color scheme for the commentary set. Since this project is moving forward online was Logos responsible for whipping it up or was that decided before?

Are you from Cleveland? Maybe Logos will unveil a new background panel palette upon release.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/171143#Comment_171143

That's kinda weird, because to me it seems the opposite (well represented). Anyway, i was just wondering. Thanks for confirming my thinking. Looking forward to the series.

I think it is well represented from a broad standpoint (i.e. among popular level commentaries)...but I think it is under-represented among the large, scholastic commentaries. Are there any high-caliber, academic commentary sets (NICOT/NICNT, et al) that are Premillennial? If there are, I'd love to know about them because I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/171496#Comment_171496

Are there any high-caliber, academic commentary sets (NICOT/NICNT, et al) that are Premillennial? If there are, I'd love to know about them because I can't think of any off the top of my head.

And of course we have historical and dispensational varieties, too. But you may be right about popular vs. academic.

From what I remember, the EBC is more pre-mill. Also there is the Exegetical Commentary: Revelation. I don't know if that whole series is, but that 2 volume set is. And I believe MacArthur (albeit, more "popular" in scope) is dispensational, is he not? Grant Osbourne (Baker Exegetical) is premill, but with apparently a bit of an ecclectic approach. But Darrell Bock (Luke in that series) is certainly premill. There may be other examples.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/171643#Comment_171643

Are there any high-caliber, academic commentary sets (NICOT/NICNT, et al) that are Premillennial? If there are, I'd love to know about them because I can't think of any off the top of my head.

And of course we have historical and dispensational varieties, too. But you may be right about popular vs. academic.

From what I remember, the EBC is more pre-mill. Also there is the Exegetical Commentary: Revelation. I don't know if that whole series is, but that 2 volume set is. And I believe MacArthur (albeit, more "popular" in scope) is dispensational, is he not? Grant Osbourne (Baker Exegetical) is premill, but with apparently a bit of an ecclectic approach. But Darrell Bock (Luke in that series) is certainly premill. There may be other examples.

You are correct, though I'm not sure I view any of those as being in the same "academic class" as the "biggies". I love EBC, though I'm not sure I'd class it as "academic". It is on the heavier side for a popular commentary, but I don't think it stands side-by-side with something like NICOT/NT. I do agree with you on R.L. Thomas on Revelation which I just purchased recently, I'll give you that one. Is there a whole series that that goes with? Is it available in Logos? I didn't realize that Baker Exegetical was premill (or at least the two in the series you mentioned)...I'm hoping to upgrade to Platinum soon though [:)]

Thanks for the examples [:)]

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/171643#Comment_171643

Grant Osbourne (Baker Exegetical) is premill,

Grant Osbourne is in the Historic Premill camp, which is different from Dispensational Premill.

Ted

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/172009#Comment_172009

Grant Osbourne (Baker Exegetical) is premill,

Grant Osbourne is in the Historic Premill camp, which is different from Dispensational Premill.

Ted

Correct Ted. And I pointed out in that same post that we have historic/dispensational "varieties." And let's not forget "progressive dispensationalists" (like Bock) who are different than, say, Jack Van Impe.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/172019#Comment_172019

Grant Osbourne (Baker Exegetical) is premill,

Grant Osbourne is in the Historic Premill camp, which is different from Dispensational Premill.

Ted

Correct Ted. And I pointed out in that same post that we have historic/dispensational "varieties." And let's not forget "progressive dispensationalists" (like Bock) who are different than, say, Jack Van Impe.

Any from the panmill camp ?