Handouts Remain Broken and Unusable

I, too, still use Lesson Builder all of the time!

But if the new handouts were meant to replace them, I would have to do a lot of copying and pasting to even come close.

Steve

It's time to beat the drum.  Handouts, handouts, Handouts.  Fixem! Fixem!  Fixem!

I love what they could be, I loathe what they are.   The single biggest key to fixing most of what's wrong with handouts is to not check anything by default.

1. Do not autocheck anything. Ever. 
2. Do not force fill any page. Ever.
3. Improve printing so that it doesn't force duplex (even with single side selected). (BUG: Duplex printing forced on handouts)
4. Speed it up: every change feels like I'm clicking in slow motion, every
   modification took from 5-25 seconds to generate.  That may not seem
   like much but I had to keep changing the settings, spacing and so forth
   in order to get it all on one page. (See: Related post., also This post)

 

Not quite sure what you're getting at here Thomas...could you be more specific? [:D][:O][:O]

 

I also have problems printing Handouts from the HP 7780.

Thomas/Andrew, count me in on the Handouts. It's a great idea, love the concept, but we need the execution in order to take full advantage of them. It would be a great addition to some of my discipleship classes, but as long as they are broken they aren't usable.

Please, oh please, oh please, let's get the Handouts fixed sooner rather then later.

Okay there's my pleading for Handouts. In all seriousness, we need to have them fixed to exploit this great concept.

After reading Thomas' incessant posts

There now, makes it sound like you'll say anything to get rid of me.

I did mean it as a positive, but maybe my word choice was not well thought out.  Your persistence though has convinced me that your approach is the best solution to a poorly designed component.  [:D]

It's time to beat the drum.  Handouts, handouts, Handouts.  Fixem! Fixem!  Fixem!

I love what they could be, I loathe what they are.   The single biggest key to fixing most of what's wrong with handouts is to not check anything by default.

1. Do not autocheck anything. Ever. 
2. Do not force fill any page. Ever.
3. Improve printing so that it doesn't force duplex (even with single side selected). (BUG: Duplex printing forced on handouts)
4. Speed it up: every change feels like I'm clicking in slow motion, every modification took from 5-25 seconds to generate.  That may not seem like much but I had to keep changing the settings, spacing and so forth in order to get it all on one page. (See: Related post., also This post)

 

Regarding #1  It's always the wrong stuff autochecked anyway.  Don't do it.  Deleting currently takes almost 60 seconds for each item.  Am I supposed to take 1/2 an hour to bring a misbehaving document under control?  That is not a recipe for usability.  If you still want to be stubborn about forcing information on your handout, force two items: the passage and ONE word find.  Do not force fill the page - ever.

Regarding #2 Force filling the pages forces WORKAROUNDS not solutions.  Create a blank object and leave it blank?  What kind of a solution is that?  That's a kludge work around for a known issue/bug.  It's not a fix, it's a patch.  patches break. 

Being "always ready to print" is NOT the same as full.  Flip it around, just because a page is full of information doesn't mean it's the right information.  Less is more.  A single word find and the passage should be enough but I have to create a blank section and add about a dozen lines to "make it ready to print."  Why not let blank be ready to print?  Then at least I can add what needs added.

Regarding #3 I'm hoping this bug will be fixed.

Regarding #4 I'm almost certain this bug will be fixed.

 

Related posts:

• Handouts still Horrible in β4 and in β6
• Handouts driving me crazy!
• Suggestion: Organize information in the handout check list.
• On the above link my Response to Darren.
• Plan for Handouts?
• BUG: Duplex printing forced in Handouts.

 

 

Yeah, what he said.

Do you really want to go there Philip....

Andrew, are you wearing your cranky pants? [:S]

Seriously, I've been where you are; and to a certain extent, I still am.

It took me two weeks to discover that I wasn't imagining the lack of an update to Anchor Bible Dictionary. Since then, I've received no further word.

I still don't have a New Jerusalem Bible with all the Bible Milestones even though other users do.

It took two weeks to get access to a SESB BHS which was correctly tagged, even though one was readily available.

I still don't know if I'm missing anything else.

 

More to your point, I would also like more control. Why not a Program Settings (Basic) and a Program Settings (Advanced).

Do you really want to go there Philip....

Andrew, are you wearing your cranky pants?

Seriously, I've been where you are; and to a certain extent, I still am.

I thinkthat now that  Logos has made some excellent progress in the issue of indexing which was consuming a lot of us early on, its just a case that the implications of some of these others things are now starting to surface and become more clearer. So.....

When it come to have my right to back up the license to a product I have paid thousands and thousands of dollars for  the privellege of using .... yes I am very much wearing my cranky pants. This really is a totally unacceptable situation and based on this reason alone I will not be able to recommend new users to start out with this software.  Its just plain wrong. Logos is saying we don't trust our customers ...doesn't do a lot to build up good will with a customer  when you go down that path.

When it comes to things I've paid for in the past and have now been told they are devalued based on a usage statistic and so will return at some point in the future.. or not at all .yes I am wearing my cranky pants.  Low usage statistic could also be telling you:

1) the feature has not been implemented very well and needs more work on it; or

2) the purpose and or usage of the feature has not been very well explained ; or

3) if its a pay for feature, its simply over priced for the market

When addition to features being removed users are being told we didn't plan on porting your notes from L3 over to L4 and will now look at doing that on a minimal level ...also I can very much understand why users would be wearing cranky pants about that one....if we can't trust that features we like will still be there in the next release because of some usage statistics and whether notes we create will be able to port to the next version .... then yes users are going to get  v. cranky and I think another reason I really would struggle to recommend someone new to start out with this software at this point.

When the applicaiton starts doing things without my consent overwriting layouts etcs just because I click on a link to open a reading plan or something else ... then yes I am very much wearing my cranky pants.

When you have a feature like handouts that just produces a mishmash of disjointed useless pieces of informaiton and the software developers only resonse seems to be - that's the way we desgined it to work - but a really useful feature like verse list is deemed not important enought to be in this release - yes I am wearing my cranky pants on both fronts.

And I could continue but will stop there but say in summary of all those other things I could is that by putting L4 on permanent training wheels Logos is saying to their customers we think you are really dumb and can't make choices for yourself - once again not the way to build good will.  This also gives the application an image problem in terms of it being a suitable product for serious student of the bible.  The training wheels are great for a time but we all must move on from them and for the majority of us here in this beta test we certainly don't need training wheels but what we do need is clear, concise explanations in a help file that is accessible to all. 

 

 

yes I am very much wearing my cranky pants. This really is a totally unacceptable situation and based on this reason alone I will not be able to recommend new users to start out with this software.  Its just plain wrong. Logos is saying we don't trust our customers ...doesn't do a lot to build up good will with a customer  when you go down that path.

 

Does the term beta mean anything to you? 

 

As Bob has said. This is not a mandantory move...you can continue with V3; he said many users are still in V2 for the same reason you don't like V4....

It's a voluntary upgrade.

Yes the term means very much to me and because it is a beta I very much should be raising my concerns about these things.  Robert there is no point until waiting after this product has been release and then saying I don't like these things but didn't say anything about them because it was only a beta and so thought they might change and didn't raise them. If they are not yours thats great for you.  I don't need your permission to express what concerns me.  Logos gave me that permission when they invited me to participate in this beta program.  I think they know I am a straight shooter when it comes to these things.

 I will never understand users who are critical to the level you seem to be of me raising my  concerns. If you can show me where I am misgudied in my thought by all means do so - is there some way of me backing up my license locally without relying on a server or a person at the other end to send me a licsence file that I've missed.  Correct me and I'll be happy on that point.  However, stating someone can continue with v3 is a very poor response from Logos as they know they will not continue to support it in terms of fixing bugs in it or developing new resources and I certainly do not need another user telling me that sort of thing or are you on the Logos payroll. You have had your say throughout this beta on things you don't like.  I have not chosen to tell you to stick with v3 if I thought differently to you on any point and would not dream of do so - I don't have the right to devalue your concerns if I disagree with them.   Please do likewise in future.