Logos 4 Mac... VERY EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE
Hi,
I am a new user of Logos 4 Mac. I read that "other post" after buying and before installing my new Scholar's library (you know, the post about very poor performance). I am starting this thread, because the other thread was so hi-jacked, it is useless. I trust this thread will be allowed to stay on topic - which is;
What is your performance experience?
My goal here is to give Logos developers and Mac users some solid, less subjective, feedback on Logos 4 Mac performance. I have the following gear:
MacBook Pro 2.66 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB 1067 MHz DDR3 RAM
Apple SSD TS128B Drive
The entire install of the Scholar's library, from download of Logos 4 Mac to indexing completion was 2 hr 58 minutes.
My first search for the word "Goodness" returned 104,408 library results in 49,224 articles in 392 resources in 1.67 sec.
My belief is that I am going to be VERY happy with a VERY snappy product. If I find I need to come back and tell you otherwise after using the product more, I will. And I (hopefully) will bring measurably meaningful data!!!!!
Let God Make Your Day Great!
Comments
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John
Welcome to the forums.
Very glad to hear that installation and indexing went so smoothly.
FYI I have been using Logos 4 Mac for just over a year. (Since the early Alpha phase).
What we have now is a very stable product which really enhances my sermon and Bible study preparation every week. Like my iMac it just works.
Inevitably the forums focus on the problems which people have. However, I am sure that the vast majority of users have a positive experience.
That said, there are some issues with Morph searching, if that's your thing, you'll run into some issues. Also I wish that there was a handouts facility. It is coming, though.
Enjoy Logos and don't forget that the forums are here if you need help. There are a great bunch of enthusiastic expert users who are eager to help with any problems and the Mac developers keep an eye on the forums too.
Every blessing
Alan
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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Thanks for the kind words Alan.
No doubt, I'll be taking you up on your invitation for help, at some point. [Y]
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John
I would think that your results reflect that you have the right kind of hardware for the program. Most people complain about L4M because they don't have that or they simply do not take the time to optimize the program for their computer's limitations. I've got a very marginal machine for L4M but it works OK because I did my homework and run the program with the understanding of what it needs.
The other thing is that Logos works better and better as you use it because you learn how to find the information with the right resources. Maybe just opening the New Bible Dictionary for goodness could have the answer needed. Even on my older Mac Mini that would come up pretty fast.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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I just purchased Logos and currently only have a very small library with just the Christian Home library and the collegeville catholic collection volume 3 (full edition). It seems to run pretty snappy for me, but I also have a really beefy mac. I have one of the new Xeon multicore (8 core) with 6 meg of RAM. I did notice a marked improvement in performance when I booted into the 64 bit kernel, so if you're still running the 32 bit kernel and start having performance issues you might try that.
-- Gary F.
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ok, I haven't spoken out on the forums yet, but here is my opinion :
If I have to compare research time, these are my findings :
It is about 10 000 times faster for me to search anything through Logos than it would be to step in my car, go to the library, find all the books I want to research, finding all the correct pages, typing or writing my findings down, ..... [:'(] [:^)]
see what I mean ?
We are being spoiled with Logos, even if it loads slowly, it sure beats getting up, getting some books from the cabinet, finding it manually, ... [:P]
BTW : I have a white MacBook, and a typical search will take 20 - 30 seconds. It is not spectacular fast, but I don't complain, because before I had Logos, I did it all 'the manual way'. [:D]
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Andy's right. People still forget how long it takes to find something in print. We're all being spoiled rotten.
From one happily spoiled brat....[:$]
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Andy Carrein said:
We are being spoiled with Logos, even if it loads slowly, it sure beats getting up, getting some books from the cabinet, finding it manually, ...
I remember Elmer Townes describing Sunday Dinner when he was a boy. The ladies would be in the kitchen cooking for two hours while the children played outside and the men sat in the living room talking. "Now, we stand in front of the microwave jumping up and down because lunch is not ready in two minutes."
Truly, we have become spoiled. I remember rows of books on my shelves and an IBM Selectric II with the interchangeable balls. I could type with different fonts, even Greek. I would think "this is great". Now, if I had to go through all that to change font or type in a different language, I would be saying rather uncomplimentary things about my software.
It's all about perspective. Sure, L4 Mac has a ways to go, but it sure beats the good ole days. [:D]
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WOW! An IBM Selectric with a Greek font ball...
I wonder if I could find one of those on ebay?! It would make a great conversation piece in my office
(stuff like that is fascinating for those of us who were born in the 80's)
Jesse Frame - New Mission Systems International, Australia
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Interesting comparatives. We can all do with a little perspective in our lives, though again many of these remarks seek to pacify less than optimum performance.
Maybe it is worth saying that I have no intention to pick a fight with someone less than satisfied with their Logos performance. Likewise, I didn't appreciate the anxiety I had to live through when, having just spent $600 on the program, I came to the forums only to read that it was probably the worst buying decision of my life.
This thread is attempting to speak to Logos taking care to be very specific about its minimum system requirement for the program Logos 4 Mac. If Logos is "real" with its recommendation and users are "real" with their expectations, it appears to me that one bible's study experience will be far from a horse and buggy comparative.
In fact, with a beefy enough system (whatever that sweet spot is), best of hope to the blessed user, in keeping up with all the Holy Spirit can say to you in 10 seconds or less through Logos!
So, back to giving Logos and users "real" world system configs and resulting experiences that will help programmers and buyers make good choices.
(My computer is still humming along)
Let God Make Your Day Great!
J
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Performance has been fine for me as well.
My mac is a 2008 15" macbook pro 2.6ghz Penryn with 4 gigs of ram and a 7200 rpm drive.
I've been very happy with Logos for Mac, now only if the iOS app was just as good [:)]
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I have been overall very pleased with L4M as well, and my Mac is not nearly as robust as JohnR's!
For comparison:
Late 2010 Macbook Pro 13", 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3 RAM, stock hard drive, running OS 10.6.5 in 64 bit:
Searched whole library for "goodness."
265,510 results in 4.07 seconds. Only Firefox open besides L4M.
I also have L4 running on my Windows machine (desktop):
Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, AMD Phenom II X4 940 (4 X 3.0GHz cores, 6MB cache), 4GB DDR2, fast hard drive.
253,230 results in 7.04 seconds. This while streaming Pandora using their app, running IE 9 with my security cameras streaming, and Outlook 2010 open. There were also 20,000+ results from the supplementary index since I have not merged indexes for a while and need to do that.
Anyway, in both cases I think back to my seminary days (early 90's) and doing Hebrew concordance searches using a Hebrew concordance - searching out one word in its various forms could take hours. Just agreeing with the idea that we are very "spoiled" in how fast we can accomplish things using technology. Which in no way negates the fact that this forum shows that some people definitely have had serious performance issues and I do not wish to minimize their grief; I am just pleased that I and many others are having a good experience and the experience is getting better all the time it seems.
Many blessings,
Orville
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When you see my numbers, you will realize that "snappiness" is relative. (And if I had richer relatives who gave away macbook pros, I could afford more "snappiness").
The point is: My hardware is old and is nothing to brag about compared to many others in this thread, but I thought you might like to know that I am very pleased with the performance. More speed would be icing on an already delicious cake.
White 13" MacBook (2005/6?), 1.83 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB 667 MHzx DDR2 SDRAM
Scholars Edition plus some others (Library shows 887 resources)
The search was conducted with these already loaded: a custom passage guide, 3 Bibles, Copy Bible Verses, 1 commentary, a note file and a clippings file.
Searched entire library for "goodness" (obviously I need to merge indexes):
New Resources - 1386 results in 718 articles in 3 resources (1.79 sec)
Library Results - 159,742 results in 75,801 articles in 773 resources (4.31 sec)
(I am suddenly picturing a new John Henry song, in which a tragic old-school pastor, using only his hard copy books, challenges Logos to an exegetical study race.)
Dude... maybe I'm too easy, but 6.1 seconds seems outrageously fast to me. But then, maybe if I could save another 5 seconds on every search I could take another day off in 10 years.
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My iMAC waited nearly a minute to finally report that the search took 3.99 sec. It may have been snappy, but that minute took 60 seconds, not 4.
Bob - 17" MBP quad 2.3GHz 4GB and iMAC
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That was the "coffee break" feature to allow you to fill your cup (Isn't there a hymn about that???) while your search is finishing.
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Robert Phillips said:
My iMAC waited nearly a minute to finally report that the search took 3.99 sec. It may have been snappy, but that minute took 60 seconds, not 4.
Hi, Robert. After reading your post, I merged my index and then ran the same search again. You are right. There is a difference between the search times reported and the time it takes for the results to actually "arrive" on the display. But I am not experiencing as much difference as you report. You must have a huge library or something?
I am working with an old White 13" MacBook (2005/6?), 1.83 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB 667 MHzx DDR2 SDRAM. I have the Scholars Edition plus some others (Library shows 887 resources). I am operating in Mac OS 10.6.6. (No fusion, parallels, bootcamp, etc.)
In a new test search (entire library for "goodness")...........
My Content (clippings file) - 1 result in 1 document. (0.38 sec)
Library Results - 161,128 results in 76,519 articles in 776 resources. (3.01 sec)
So, this time Logos reported a search time of 3.38 seconds.
On my iPhone stopwatch, the results actually took a total of 10.2 seconds to show up on my display.
I'm reporting this in the spirit of JohnR who started the thread. The idea was to give some actual numbers along with system configuration/library to help the devs. So now, I think I'm done with this. I'm burning seconds! [;)]
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James R. Adams said:
You are right. There is a difference between the search times reported and the time it takes for the results to actually "arrive" on the display.
The reported search time is the time it tool L4 to find the resources. The delay from there to display is the time it takes the UI to do its thing.
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I put the extra wait time to good use. I jump over and read the Forum:-)
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Ed Powers said:
I put the extra wait time to good use. I jump over and read the Forum:-)
Use this with care. Certain individuals have become addicted to the forums by doing such things. Logos has put stars under most of their avatars as a warning of what can happen if you overuse the forums (present poster excepted, of course) [8-|]
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Also performance has been good, could always be better ;-) But more than usable.
MacBook Pro 2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo
4Gb Memory
7200RPM hard diskSchoolars Edition Logos Bible Software 4.2a Beta 6 (4.21.4.9959)
many thanks to the team.
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Macbook Pro 2.0 ghz late 2008 4GB ram OS 10.6 clean install
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Very good to consider, Robert Phillips - Thanks. (I failed to "forum quote" you correctly, sorry)
In my case, display time has been nearly at a glance to the find completion. I didn't realize there could be a lag to display.
As I have begun to have more than one panel open however, I have noticed a slight delay to those reference resources "catching up" with their display. This must be the nature of what you are experiencing in perhaps all panels. The video card is maybe the difference here?
NVidia GForce GT 330M
Thanks.
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It's unstable for me. About 50% of the time it locks up Finder. The app itself will run, but it seems to cause a catch somewhere. The computer won't even shut down when it's like this, so I have to hard boot it. Not good.
As soon as I reboot...again....I'll post what this machine has. For now, it's a MacPro 8-core with 2G of memory. Can't remember the processor and can't access it because Finder is locked up.
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John Wright said:
It's unstable for me. About 50% of the time it locks up Finder. The app itself will run, but it seems to cause a catch somewhere. The computer won't even shut down when it's like this, so I have to hard boot it. Not good.
As soon as I reboot...again....I'll post what this machine has. For now, it's a MacPro 8-core with 2G of memory. Can't remember the processor and can't access it because Finder is locked up.
Wiki page has Slow Performance section => http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Slow_Performance
With 2 GB RAM, wondering about memory usage - when Mac OS X is paging, all applications wait.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Wow. I've had my Macbook Pro 17 since June '10 (first mac--and love it), and just now found out it has been running in 32-bit mode.
i5 2.53Ghz, 4GB ram, OS X 10.6.6
I got on these forums to find out if others are experiencing Logos constantly showing the beach ball and taking long times to react to scrolling and menu clicks etc.
For example I'll swipe to scroll and sometimes it takes up to 5 seconds before responding. I'll click the Layouts menu and it can take up 15 seconds to respond.
Here's a screen shot of a search.
...and here's a shot of activity monitor
I'm going to reboot and try again, then boot it at 64-bit and try again.
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okay so much better performance after reboot
and the layouts menu is coming up in 3 seconds (fastest I've experienced).
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no improvement at 64-bit though
but there's still significan lag at times (slow click response --multiple seconds, etc.).
Does anybody else come across this???
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Corbin, did you look at the link that Smiling provided? Here it is again:
http://wiki.logos.com/Mac_Troubleshooting#Slow_Performance
I found a couple of things there to be very helpful, especially turning of the internet option.
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Yes, thanks for replying. That's actually how I found out about my mac running in 32-bit mode instead of 64.
I didn't turn the Internet thing off.
Isn't that needed to sync so when I use my iPhone app the info is replicated from when I worked on my Macbook?
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Corbin Hambrick said:
I didn't turn the Internet thing off.
Isn't that needed to sync so when I use my iPhone app the info is replicated from when I worked on my Macbook?
If internet turned off, can use sync now command to replicate between MacBook and Logos servers. If internet turned on, sync happens automatically every few minutes.
Wondering about Logos 4 Mac version ?
Recently Logos 4.2a Release Candidate 1 released to Beta channel => http://community.logos.com/forums/t/30236.aspx - includes several performance optimizations - if no major issues found, will become stable release soon.
Corbin Hambrick said:and here's a shot of activity monitor
Observation: noticed 2.31 GB of Page Outs - Restarting Mac resets memory usage (can be good for performance).
After personally repeating lots of Page Outs (with spinning beach balls), choose to upgrade RAM since I wanted to run more applications than available memory.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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yeah I noticed that too that's why I did a reboot keeping it at 32-bit before doing a reboot at 64 just to make the comparison a little more scientific
I hadn't rebooted in 2 1/2 days and had run Parallels yesterday.
Logos makes my mac slow but Parallels makes my Mac DOG slow.
...not complaining though. NEVER thought I'd switch to MAC now doubt I'll ever go back to a PC.
Never thought bible study could be so easy and don't know why ANYONE would ever use any other tool given the option.
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Corbin Hambrick said:
yeah I noticed that too that's why I did a reboot keeping it at 32-bit before doing a reboot at 64 just to make the comparison a little more scientific
I hadn't rebooted in 2 1/2 days and had run Parallels yesterday.
Logos makes my mac slow but Parallels makes my Mac DOG slow.
...not complaining though. NEVER thought I'd switch to MAC now doubt I'll ever go back to a PC.
Never thought bible study could be so easy and don't know why ANYONE would ever use any other tool given the option.
I guess i am just really lucky. I have Parallels running constantly (XP SP3, 512MB) and Logos is almost always running and I have never experienced significant slow downs. I am running an i7 2.66 Macbook pro. The only time I have really ever had slow down complaints is when my sims 3 game is running and that is not that often... (For any sims 3 fans, the user download world fincastle is great it has several churches in it and is a fun world).
-Dan
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Its unusable for me!
Locks up often!
Very counterintuitive & since I know very little about computers all of the talk on these forums is way over my head. Customer support is good however & they acknowledged that it is a very difficult program to learn & work & that they were having major problems with a considerable amount of MAC users.
They offered me my $ back but I am going to keep trying a bit longer before I take them up on it because I still have hope! I just don't have 5 to 10 hours to learn a whole new system. It is simply not easy for MAC users lots of control clicks, unable to print, no dragging etc.
Sorry to be debbie downer but I have had a bad experience with the program!
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Hey Ben. Yeah, there is a lot to this software. No doubt about it. It's so involved that my seminary requires us to take a week long class on how to use Logos. If you don't put the time into learning it, you will not get the most out of it.
Have you viewed the video tutorials? You can find them here:
http://www.logos.com/featuredemos
Very good for just getting basic usage.
When you say it's unusable, is that because of speed or because you don't know the software?
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Ben Hardman said:
Its unusable for me!
Locks up often!
Very counterintuitive & since I know very little about computers all of the talk on these forums is way over my head. Customer support is good however & they acknowledged that it is a very difficult program to learn & work & that they were having major problems with a considerable amount of MAC users.
They offered me my $ back but I am going to keep trying a bit longer before I take them up on it because I still have hope! I just don't have 5 to 10 hours to learn a whole new system. It is simply not easy for MAC users lots of control clicks, unable to print, no dragging etc.
Sorry to be debbie downer but I have had a bad experience with the program!
Replied in forum http://community.logos.com/forums/t/30067.aspx "Help Very Frustrated"
Keep Smiling [:)]
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