How long does it normally take for a book to leave "Under Development" status?

Thank you very much, Thomas! [:)] Just in case this comes up again: Would Customer Support be the right department to email to, or are there people at Logos one can write to directly in such cases?

TCBlack said:

Probably customer service.  I emailed a specific person - with no promise it was the right person.  

Thanks again, Thomas!

TCBlack said:

man am I feeling vague today.

Must be the weather, same with me today. Wait a minute - we're some 4500 miles apart!?! [li]

Okay, I'm really a bit upset now. It's been a week that I've sent an email to Sales concerning this problem, and I haven't received an answer yet. Logos - you can't release dozens and dozens of new pre-pubs when you can't even manage the ones stuck in the pipe for almost a year.

Could someone from Logos finally take care of this, please?

alabama24 said:

but I don't know who to ask.

That's why I sent it to Sales - I figured they would delegate it to the right place ... [;)] I've sent an extra email to Customer Service just now.

Thanks for clearing things up a bit, Kevin and Rosie!

I still think that having to wait for almost a year for one single resource to leave development status is quite some time, considering one could have bought it in print or as Kindle version and read it through several times. I know well enough that Logos isn't just another ebook reader, however I get frustrated when I see a ton of new Pre Pubs being published every month  that are more comprehensive and have been under development for much shorter time.

I don't have to know every detail of the process, but I'd really appreciate it if Logos could at least give a hint for what's taking so long and that they are on it, especially when they have been asked for it several times.

Rosie Perera said:

there are other considerations too that we have nothing to do with and that have nothing to do with how long the technical work takes (such as negotiations with the publisher, even getting the digital files from them in the first place, haggling over price, etc.)

Well, I hope Logos settles these kind of things before they advertise a resource!

Rosie Perera said:

That's part of what the pre-pub program is for -- to gauge interest.

Well, it made it into development, so there must have been enough interest to produce it. It's not that I wouldn't appreciate the hard work behind the resources Logos produces. I really do - that's why I'm willing to pay more for it than I would for the print or Kindle edition and even wait some time. I just don't want to wait longer for a single 350 pages book than I'd have to wait for a new car after I've ordered it. I'm a bit selfish here, yes - but not ashamed ... [;)]

Thank you for taking the time to answer, Kent - I know your time is precious, so really: Thank you!

However, that's exactly the kind of answer I was afraid of. And as interesting as it might be to know what factors hold up books in general, this just isn't good enough for me. I already figured by myself that there are some difficulties with this book - otherwise it wouldn't be stuck in development for almost a year now, otherwise I wouldn't have asked. So this answer doesn't help me in any way.

As much as I love Logos and appreciate all the work you're doing here and as much as I try to understand to some level the complexity involved in producing a Logos resource, I don't buy these resources out ot compassion for hard working people, but because I want to do my studies with them, which involves some kind of planning. "You'll just have to wait" isn't something I can or want to build my study plans around.

In my opinion, offering a resource in PrePub is a way of advertising, which raises certain expectations on the side of the customer. In this case, Logos hasn't met my expectations at all. On the contrary! I really don't think it is asked too much expecting at least an approximate shipping date for a 350 pages book that has been advertised a year ago. As I said before, I don't want to wait longer for 350 pages of reading and studying than I have to wait for a new car or even a house to be built etc. - which involves even more contracts, complexity, processing issues and QA testing. And I certainly don't want to know that there are even more amazing PrePubs coming next week when I haven't even received the ones I've been waiting and asking for over and over again!

If Logos can't manage to deliver a single resource that has been advertised for such a long time, then Logos just has to do a better job. Until then I'll have to invest my time and money in other software or print books. Yes, I know they can't to all the exciting things Logos can. But at least I can read and do my studies with them instead of just having to wait - my time is precious, too.

I know all this may sound a bit harsh. It certainly is nothing personal, Ken - so, please, don't get me wrong! Again - thank you for taking the time to answer. It's just that I'm very disappointed in the way Logos as a company is doing business sometimes, and I think Logos has to hear it and do something about it.

Ted Hans said:

Theolobias, I understand your general point and frustration of not wanting to wait long for a 350 page book. How can Logos improve or do a better job on a matter outside their control, namely point one in Kent's post?

It isn't completely out of their control!

1. If Logos offers a PrePub resource, there must have been at least first talks and a first contract with the publisher, which means that the publisher generally has given Logos the permission to advertise the product and start with the production. If a publisher can stop this whole process or delay it for so long, there are two things that need to be said:

a) Logos should negotiate contracts that make it very clear to the publisher that they can't just do as they like as soon as they've given Logos the permission to advertise the product. Once you go public with a product, every party has certain expectations that need to be met - and there are three parties we're talking about here: The licence holder, Logos, and Logos' customers. If the publisher still stops the whole process, than this is either a breach of contract (which should cause Logos to demand what is rightfully theirs and be even more clear towards the publisher in future negotiations), and/or

b) there have happened some unpredictable things on the publisher's side that haven't been their fault per se but that need to be communicated, which leads me to:

2. As already said, Logos can remind the publisher that there are customers waiting for a product. Logos' business depends on customer satisfaction, so Logos can and has to at least exert a reasonable degree of pressure. And: It should be clear to both Logos and the publisher that customers demand at least a certain degree of communication and information concerning the whereabouts of a product they've ordered. Telling the customer that he or she just has to wait is neither communication nor information - it's simply stalling.

That said, I'd at least like to know whether the delay for the two titles by Ben Witherington is the publisher's fault or has something to do with internal processes (or both). If the latter applies, then there is something seriously wrong and needs to be radically changed by Logos. Seriously: In a year's time I could transcribe 350 pages ten times by hand and on top of it memorize it - I wouldn't even need Logos anymore!

I don't have or even want to know all the details, but some specifics really concern me a bit - e.g. how long it will approximately take for a resource to ship. And I'd like to be informed by Logos without having to ask all the time. When you order a product at Amazon and it is delayed for some reason, Amazon informs you about it. Logos should really do the same. I know that PrePubs don't come with a shipping date in advance because they first have to be produced before they can be shipped - but, again: We're talking about a year here, and I don't have the confidence that it won't take even longer! If Logos can't manage to give us this kind of information, they should refrain from advertising a product. It's as simple as that.

Ted Hans said:

wish you all the best

Wish you all the best, too! [:)]

Rosie Perera said:

Logos pre-pubs were always viewed as an elite and exciting program to be part of and nobody cared how long they took because there was no other alternative.

Well, if I had ordered these PrePubs at a time when there were no Kindle editions, I still would've had to figure out whether I was willing to wait for this long or just buy the book as print edition.

Rosie Perera said:

Your railing at the situation isn't likely to make it any better.

Is demanding to get a little more information from Logos for things I am willing to pay for really asked too much? I don't think so. Other companies manage to do so, so should Logos.

Rosie Perera said:

I suggest you go ahead and buy the book from Amazon.com and vote with your wallet and stop griping here. You're only going to drive more customers away from Logos. Maybe that's what you want to do, though, which is surely your prerogative.

Are you serious? If yes, then I have to be very clear on this, Rosie: I find you saying this really offensive and harmful. I think I was very specific on what I'm asking of Logos, and I was also very clear that I appreciate Logos for what it has to offer. There's absolutely no need to assume a hidden agenda. For where I stand financially, I spent a lot of money for Logos products, so I think that I have some right to share my mind on things that I think could be done better. We certainly have different opinions here, but I'm really trying to get your point and deal with your arguments in a reasonable way. There's no need to covertly tell me to shut up just because you don't share my opinion. Stop it.

George Somsel said:

Perhaps it simply means that it is approved for production rather than actually being developed.

Even if so, it wouldn't change much for the customer, would it? I still would want to be informed in a better way and I still would ask contracts and internal routines to be reviewed when it takes this long. I already mentioned why.

George Somsel said:

Theolobias said:

Even if so, it wouldn't change much for the customer, would it? I still would want to be informed in a better way and I still would ask contracts and internal routines to be reviewed when it takes this long. I already mentioned why.

Of course it would change for the customer.  The customer would be absolutely clear regarding the stage of production.  Perhaps the customer might still wish for a quicker production, but he would not be expecting that the release could be any day now.

I think we've been talking past each other, George. I was thinking you suggested to simply change the title "Under Development" to "Approved for Production" without a following status or without giving further information on how long it might take for the product to ship. That, in my opinion, wouldn't change things for customers. My idea was simply for Logos to be more clear on what they are doing right now with a resource and, if possible, informing customers in case it might take significantly longer for a product to produce and finally ship than usually.

But, as I already mentioned, I will take it under consideration to write to Bob or Dan Pritchett - I guess things are said and done here. [:)]

Rosie Perera said:

Since I don't really like real beer, virtual beer is more palatable anyway.

Well, given the range of beer that is common in Northern America, I'm not surprised you don't like it! [;)] That's just one of several good reasons to pay the motherland of reformation a visit - or at least some of the neighbour contries like Czechia, where you get a lot of different beer varieties that actually deserve the name "beer"! [:D]

Rosie Perera said:

I'll stick with wine and sweet liqueurs, thanks.

That's fine for me, too!

Rosie Perera said:

And I probably shouldn't admit it too loudly on these forums, as no doubt there are some who think it's all of the devil.

I'll say it with Larry Norman: "Why should the devil have all the good music alcohol?" [;)]