L3 versus L4 versus L5
When Logos 5 comes out, do you guys think it's going to be a total overhaul to Logos 4, similar like how L4 was to L3? In watching vids where L3 was used, I can see the visual improvement made by L4. L4 definitely appears to be a modern day app, whereas L3 does seem a little out of date. But this makes me wonder if a total overhaul would be necessary with L5. Seems like L5 could easily be just a majorly improved version of L4 with a large number of issues fixed, old and missed tools added back in, completely new tools, new features in and improved usability with old tools, etc. Any thoughts? Anyone heard anything about what L5 might be like? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Libronix first created like 10+ years ago, and basically just saw improved versions using the same base until Logos 4 came out? Do you think Logos 4 will be treated the same?
(By the way, all of this is just discussion. I don't know much about Logos versions before 4 at all. And I also don't have any idea or presupposition as to when I think L5 might come out. I'm just curious to see what people think... and if any employees might chime in with a few hints, lol.)
Comments
- On the one hand it means we should have proper display of Syriac fonts in V5
- On the other it would mean that it is highly unlikely Syriac font display would be fixed before V5
- v1 //
platform written from scratch - v1.1
- v1.5
- v1.6
- v2 / Logos Library System //
platform re-write - v2.1
- v2.x (I forget the details!)
- Libronix DLS v1 //
platform re-write - v1.x
- v2
- v3 (bigger deal, some internal re-writing, new configs)
- Logos 4 // platform re-write
- v4.x, y, z
I think Lynden is correct. The big competitor weakness in Logos4 has always been 'slow'. What I didn't know until just recently was that Bob didn't want to immediately wipe out 80% of his competitors with L4. Unfortunately the expected slow demise of the competitors has been slower than expected and so Logos5 will likely also continue to be slow.
Probably you think I'm joking, but imagine a high-speed Logos, iPad/Phone etc support, in-church-services support and a library that just won't quit. Competition? Don't think so. Thankfully Bob is not as hard-hearted as Pharoah and his over-speedy army nearing the Reed Sea.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
I think Lynden is correct. The big competitor weakness in Logos4 has always been 'slow'. What I didn't know until just recently was that Bob didn't want to immediately wipe out 80% of his competitors with L4. Unfortunately the expected slow demise of the competitors has been slower than expected and so Logos5 will likely also continue to be slow.
Probably you think I'm joking, but imagine a high-speed Logos, iPad/Phone etc support, in-church-services support and a library that just won't quit. Competition? Don't think so. Thankfully Bob is not as hard-hearted as Pharoah and his over-speedy army nearing the Reed Sea.
Did he give any reasons as to why? (I can speculate, but of course that would always just be speculation.[:)])
Interesting. I wondered why you were asking, since there hasn't been a peep about L5, that I've seen.
Yeah, like I said, just discussion. The furthering of technology, especially as pertains to furthering the Kingdom, interests me is all.
Think of WPF as the development platform that Logos used to create L4. When the decision to use WPF, it looked like it was going to be around for a long time, but it has never fulfilled its potential. Now, Microsoft could be going in a different direction.
So it's a software or something by Microsoft that other companies use to develop their own software? Also, what is it that makes this platform make Logos slow?
So it's a software or something by Microsoft that other companies use to develop their own software? Also, what is it that makes this platform make Logos slow?
Here are two forum threads, but there are more
All I want from Logos 5 is new resources and new commentary sets...[:P]
DAL
All I want from Logos 5 is new resources and new commentary sets...
DAL
I'm definitely looking forward to the base package upgrade. However, I'm also looking forward to the increased functionality of the software with the base of it staying like Logos 4. I wouldn't want to have to relearn a new system anytime soon.
Speaking of base package upgrades, how do those work? I'm assuming each package gets its own upgrade, with the upgrade becoming progressively better with the higher packages. But would this mean that each package's upgrade would also be progressively more expensive? If this is the case, what were the different prices for the upgrades? Also, what were the added bonuses? Were these resources worth it to you guys? Any other thoughts?
Repost because no one really answered these questions.
Speaking of base package upgrades, how do those work? I'm assuming each package gets its own upgrade, with the upgrade becoming progressively better with the higher packages. But would this mean that each package's upgrade would also be progressively more expensive? If this is the case, what were the different prices for the upgrades? Also, what were the added bonuses? Were these resources worth it to you guys? Any other thoughts?
Speaking of base package upgrades, how do those work? I'm assuming each package gets its own upgrade, with the upgrade becoming progressively better with the higher packages. But would this mean that each package's upgrade would also be progressively more expensive? If this is the case, what were the different prices for the upgrades? Also, what were the added bonuses? Were these resources worth it to you guys? Any other thoughts?
Libronix DLS 3 was sold with base packages named Bible Study Library, Scholar's Library, Scholar's Library: Gold, etc.
When Logos 4 was announced, it also had Bible Study Library, Scholar's Library, Scholar's Library: Gold, etc.; these packages were, say, 80-90% the same as the LDLS3 versions, but maybe 5-10% of the resources were removed, and 20% were new. (I'm just making these numbers up; I haven't looked up the exact differences.) In addition, Logos 4 included new data sets such as Biblical People and Places, many new reverse interlinears, media resources, etc. Finally, a new top-end package, Platinum was added (and Portfolio above that).
To "crossgrade" from an existing base package to the "same" library for Logos 4 was $100-200 depending on the base package you started with. (Larger base packages had a higher crossgrade price.) To upgrade (from Gold) to the new Platinum base package was around $300. There was also a minimal crossgrade ($70) which just got you most of the new data sets, but none of the other new resources in the new base packages. (And, finally, the updated software could be downloaded for free, but many of the new features didn't work without the databases contained in the new base packages.)
Libronix DLS 3 was sold with base packages named Bible Study Library, Scholar's Library, Scholar's Library: Gold, etc.
When Logos 4 was announced, it also had Bible Study Library, Scholar's Library, Scholar's Library: Gold, etc.; these packages were, say, 80-90% the same as the LDLS3 versions, but maybe 5-10% of the resources were removed, and 20% were new. (I'm just making these numbers up; I haven't looked up the exact differences.) In addition, Logos 4 included new data sets such as Biblical People and Places, many new reverse interlinears, media resources, etc. Finally, a new top-end package, Platinum was added (and Portfolio above that).
To "crossgrade" from an existing base package to the "same" library for Logos 4 was $100-200 depending on the base package you started with. (Larger base packages had a higher crossgrade price.) To upgrade (from Gold) to the new Platinum base package was around $300. There was also a minimal crossgrade ($70) which just got you most of the new data sets, but none of the other new resources in the new base packages. (And, finally, the updated software could be downloaded for free, but many of the new features didn't work without the databases contained in the new base packages.)
Cool. Thanks for the info. Do you know anything about what might be expected when Logos 5 comes out? Will it probably be a similar scenario? (Some resources removed from packages, some added, some new features, a charge for crossgrade, etc.)
Cool. Thanks for the info. Do you know anything about what might be expected when Logos 5 comes out? Will it probably be a similar scenario? (Some resources removed from packages, some added, some new features, a charge for crossgrade, etc.)hi Robert,
I would not expect an answer from Logos concerning a product that has not been announced, it could get them in trouble when it does come out. Even speaking of generalities can get them into trouble. This being said, I will say that I do expect the same scenario to occur.
Bob has said that he was not rewriting L5.
And to think I interpreted Bob's statement in the reverse way: I expected to see WPF out but the user interface/processing logic to be the same.[*-)] I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Bob really meant.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Bob has said that he was not rewriting L5.And to think I interpreted Bob's statement in the reverse way: I expected to see WPF out but the user interface/processing logic to be the same.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Bob really meant.
I hope WPF is out, but I guess that we will have to wait and see.
Bob has said that he was not rewriting L5.And to think I interpreted Bob's statement in the reverse way: I expected to see WPF out but the user interface/processing logic to be the same.
Hmmm... WPF being out in V5 would be a mixed blessing.
Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.
A rough outline of Logos Bible Software history:
1991:
1995:
2001:
2009:
It doesn't feel like enough time for a complete platform re-write yet... but it's been long enough that Logos ought to ship something cooler than just a few tweaks and bug fixes, right? :-)
(On the other hand, with emergence of iOS, Android, web apps, etc. it feels like we're writing "a new platform" every day!...)
Thanks for posting here, Bob. I'll settle for useful OR way cool.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Thanks for posting here, Bob. I'll settle for useful OR way cool.
I would rather have useful over way cool
Me too.
What it's actually been is long enough that we should have a bug free, complete as advertised, product that works quick and smooth on both windows and mac platforms. That we have yet to see.
[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
Robert, I seriously doubt that L5 will be a major overhaul, like L3 was to L4. As you said, bug fixes, new features requested, etc.. Now when you are talking L6, I think that will be the one that will cause the christian and secular world to drop their jaw.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
L5 doesn't look that different to me...
https://www.logos.com/media/_faithlife/GroupPrayerList.pdf.
The main difference seems to be the integration with the Faithlife stuff.
See https://faithlife.com/whatsnext.
Interesting. I wondered why you were asking, since there hasn't been a peep about L5, that I've seen.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
What makes you think that is Logos 5? It just looks to me like a single-feature mockup based on what L4 currently looks like. Am I missing something?
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
I wonder if L5 might follow Windows 8, to minimize compatibility problems.
The top of the app window says "
Logos Bible Software 5". That tipped me off that it might be Logos Bible Software 5 [;)]
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
You'll notice some small differences, not to mention it say's Logos 5 in the title
As for L5, don't have a clue. But getting out my
and examining the proffered evidence; there is a conspicuous absence of my nemesis, "File" which has been replaced by Documents. I hope that this iteration will yield a smoother interaction with the rest of the lauded components of this powerful program...Amen
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
Good catch Beloved.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.