The Message of the Old Testament: Promises Made - Issues with Bible Verse Hyperlinks and Table of Co

I appreciate Vyrso books are not fully formatted Logos books, but I think table of contents and scripture hyperlinks need to be quality checked and done well.

It would be nice, but I don't think it is going to happen because of the small margins that vysro books have.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407484#Comment_407484

I appreciate Vyrso books are not fully formatted Logos books, but I think table of contents and scripture hyperlinks need to be quality checked and done well.

It would be nice, but I don't think it is going to happen because of the small margins that vysro books have.

If Vyrso don't do some quality checking on this sort of thing Tom, then they are in danger of becoming the new E4 amongst Logos user's that felt burnt by that organisation's lack of quality control. I appreciate it's a competitive market and margins are tight, that's why these basics need to be done correctly otherwise if bible hyperlinks don't work correctly why pay a little extra for a Vyrso resource if there is cheaper alternative.

As customers I don't think we should simply accept problems like this is in Vyrso resources. I can live with typos in the resources. I just reported one now in this resource that prevented a bible hyperlink from being created but I am not going to post details here because I've used the report typo feature and trust that process will take care of it in due course. The things I have pointed out here are more than can be reported by a mere typo and I believe of such a serious nature since it affects the whole resource, that I should not simply accept, and I believe Vyrso wants us to know about these sort of problems. I also believe they will deal with the issue of the scripture hyperlinks in time, and not simply say our margins are to tight to fix it. I don't have the same confidence on the table of contents issue but feel it is still need to be pointed out. But the fact that Vyrso want to know about the issues and do something about them is the difference between them and E4.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407488#Comment_407488

If Vyrso don't do some quality checking on this sort of thing Tom, then they are in danger of becoming the new E4 amongst Logos user's that felt burnt by that organisation's lack of quality control. I appreciate it's a competitive market and margins are tight, that's why these basics need to be done correctly otherwise if bible hyperlinks don't work correctly why pay a little extra for a Vyrso resource if there is cheaper alternative.

As customers I don't think we should simply accept problems like this is in Vyrso resources. I can live with typos in the resources. I just reported one now in this resource that prevented a bible hyperlink from being created but I am not going to post details here because I've used the report typo feature and trust that process will take care of it in due course. The things I have pointed out here are more than can be reported by a mere typo and I believe of such a serious nature since it affects the whole resource, that I should not simply accept, and I believe Vyrso wants us to know about these sort of problems. I also believe they will deal with the issue of the scripture hyperlinks in time, and not simply say our margins are to tight to fix it. I don't have the same confidence on the table of contents issue but feel it is still need to be pointed out. But the fact that Vyrso want to know about the issues and do something about them is the difference between them and E4.

I agree, and yet the issues that you found in this book cannot be caught by an automatized system. This type of bug can only be found by reading the book, and I have a funny feeling that Logos is not going to hire someone to read every Vysro book.

I appreciate Vyrso books are not fully formatted Logos books, but I think table of contents and scripture hyperlinks need to be quality checked and done well.

That's not going to happen. Vyrso editions are not human edited, and will have lots of the sorts of errors you're discussing here. Mostly it doesn't matter too much, because most Vyrso books do now have hundreds of Scripture references and complex tables of contents. For what it's worth, lots of Kindle books also have issues like this, and some of them have really terrible OCR (which you don't notice unless you're on an iPhone).

The best you can hope for is that Logos bring out a Logos edition of this book - if they do, you'll get a free upgrade.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407488#Comment_407488

As customers I don't think we should simply accept problems like this is in Vyrso resources.

I agree with you that it is annoying. Most of the time, the books are pretty good. Its issues like this one that are most troubling.

As the other members have said, this issue isn't going to be fixed anytime soon… its cost prohibitive.

if bible hyperlinks don't work correctly why pay a little extra for a Vyrso resource if there is cheaper alternative.

The questions for me are always, "how much cheaper" and "how much do I need the book." The primary reason I buy from Vyrso is so that my books are integrated into Logos. Amazon can't beat that, no matter how cheap the books are.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407653#Comment_407653

As customers I don't think we should simply accept problems like this is in Vyrso resources.

I agree with you that it is annoying. Most of the time, the books are pretty good. Its issues like this one that are most troubling.

As the other members have said, this issue isn't going to be fixed anytime soon… its cost prohibitive.

if bible hyperlinks don't work correctly why pay a little extra for a Vyrso resource if there is cheaper alternative.

The questions for me are always, "how much cheaper" and "how much do I need the book." The primary reason I buy from Vyrso is so that my books are integrated into Logos. Amazon can't beat that, no matter how cheap the books are.

I am sorry I have to disagree with you. If Logos is going to say this level of error as acceptable then they are now doing what many Logos users and Logos themselves chastised E4 for doing in the past.. Vyrso have become the new E4, producing poor quality material with no editorial work. The difference was E4 was very low priced. Vyrso is not always low priced and sometimes more than other e-book publishers are offering the same titles. If they are not going to take care with bible hyperlinks and allow rampant endemic errors to pass through then what is the point of making bible hyperlinks active at all. I have not problem with the odd error slipping through. This is systemic and makes the whole point of purchasing the Vyrso format of these books a complete waste of time. Vyrso is Logos. They sell books and the price point on the basis of integration into Logos Library. I may as well be reading some of the books in Adobe Digital reader at the moment. Instead of MVP's coming out and bagging me for suggesting Logos has dropped the ball on their quality of the products they are selling I would appreciate Logos to comment on what they are going to do about endemic problems in e-books sold under the Vyrso label. And it is not only the books they don't check, the blurbs on the web pages are loaded without any checking of what is being put on the web site. It appears like Vyrso is being run like a backyard operation simply as a means to generate cash flow with little respect for what is being handed over to the customer - this is not the company Logos has painted themselves to be, but it is exactly what they are doing with Vyrso at the moment.

(Mark & Alabama I appreciate you both and your efforts on the forums but this is a situation where as a paying customer I don't believe I am getting the quality I have payed for, I don't believe it is acceptable for an MVP's to say the issues I raise are not going to be dealt with and try and blow away my concerns - I am not paying either of you - the issue I have raised I believe is serious and needs to be addressed by Logos/Vyrso and not people who do not speak on behalf of the company as much as I appreciate your trying to help. If we as a user community simply sit back and accept this very poor standard of workmanship then things will never change and your words become self-fulfilling prophecies).

If books like this are not going to have basic quality control then they should be published as Logos Books and leave Vyrso format to bibliographies, fiction where there is much less use of bible references.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407841#Comment_407841

Instead of MVP's coming out and bagging me for suggesting Logos has dropped the ball on their quality of the products they are selling I would appreciate Logos to comment on what they are going to do about endemic problems in e-books sold under the Vyrso label.

I'm not 'bagging you', you're as entitled to your opinion as I am, and you're entitled to express it here. I have had the resource in question (bought a year ago) and ever since have been disappointed with it - not for bad links, but because it has no milestones, and therefore can't be used in Passage Guides. I almost asked for a refund. In fact, my purchase of that very book was the reason why I've never bought another commentary type book from Vyrso since - and am unlikely to.

I don't believe it is acceptable for an MVP's to say the issues I raise are not going to be dealt with and try and blow away my concerns - I am not paying either of you - the issue I have raised I believe is serious and needs to be addressed by Logos/Vyrso and not people who do not speak on behalf of the company as much as I appreciate your trying to help.

What we're trying to do here is simply be honest with you, and reflect back what has already been said on the subject over the last year. We're not saying "this isn't an issue, be quiet about it", we're saying "here's our understanding of Logos' intentions and policies". The issues you're raising have come up several times before, particularly when Vyrso was first launched. I'm sorry if the lack of references to those previous conversations gave the impression we were giving our opinion, but it's not always easy to find old threads, even if we can remember roughly what they said. But let me put that right. Here's a Logos employee's post, which summarises Logos' answers to various Vyrso-related quality issues, and links to a couple of threads that deal with these questions in more detail.

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/35348/266888.aspx#266888

Vyrso is Logos. They sell books and the price point on the basis of integration into Logos Library.

I think you've misunderstood the purpose of Vyrso. The main purpose of Vyrso is not Logos integration, but the offering of Christian e-books to the general public. That's why there's a dedicated Vyrso app, and a dedicated Vyrso store. Logos integration is a bonus that (normally) persuades Logos users to buy, but it's not the raison d'etre. The vast majority of Vyrso books are fiction or other 'light' reading, that will have a few Bible verses scattered throughout. For those books Vyrso is great. But for commentaries and the like, it's fairly useless. But the whole business model is built on the books not requiring hand-editing. If they do need hand-editing, then they stop being Vyrso books and start being Logos books.

If books like this are not going to have basic quality control then they should be published as Logos Books and leave Vyrso format to bibliographies, fiction where there is much less use of bible references.

I agree with you here. IMO, there should either be clear warnings on the book's Vyrso page to manage expectation, or the books should be withdrawn.

If we as a user community simply sit back and accept this very poor standard of workmanship then things will never change and your words become self-fulfilling prophecies

Keep banging the drum [:)] - if you manage to persuade Logos to hand-edit Promises, it would benefit me too [:D].

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407488#Comment_407488

The things I have pointed out here are more than can be reported by a mere typo and I believe of such a serious nature since it affects the whole resource, that I should not simply accept, and I believe Vyrso wants us to know about these sort of problems.

I agree with you but am not sure Logos reads this forum - I'd pass it through the standard error channels as well.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407846#Comment_407846

Mark and Alabama if I was unfair in my comments in anyway towards you please accept my apology, that was not my intent. I just didn't find on this occasion you hit the mark in term of providing comment that was going to lead to satisfactory resolution of this issue.

Vyrso is Logos. They sell books and the price point on the basis of integration into Logos Library.

I think you've misunderstood the purpose of Vyrso. The main purpose of Vyrso is not Logos integration, but the offering of Christian e-books to the general public. That's why there's a dedicated Vyrso app, and a dedicated Vyrso store. Logos integration is a bonus that (normally) persuades Logos users to buy, but it's not the raison d'etre.

Mark I haven't misunderstood. I am clear they are not of the standard of Logos books. I am not asking for full milestones or indexing which it would be nice in some of these books, all I am asking is for bible hyperlinks to work correctly at this point in time. I don't think that is a standard too high for a Vyrso book. If a non Logos use buys one of these books and then decides they want a bible to check the references - they are in for a very rude shock and a very poor impression of both Vyrso and Logos and less likely to become a regular repeat customer and their word of mouth testimony about what is being offered under the label Vyrso is likely to be poor also amongst their circle of influence. My concern extends not just to my personal usability but to the name of Logos and Vyrso and their reputation in the marketplace.

The table of contents I can live with as is but felt the issue should be also highlighted because as I showed in my screenshot the title is there in the resource, the tagging is simply closed off too quickly for the title to be picked up, if there was not chapter title than so be it.

What we're trying to do here is simply be honest with you, and reflect back what has already been said on the subject over the last year. We're not saying "this isn't an issue, be quiet about it", we're saying "here's our understanding of Logos' intentions and policies". The issues you're raising have come up several times before, particularly when Vyrso was first launched.

Mark I know the issue has come up before and it needs to continually be brought up until Vyrso and Logos get the message poor quality in basic things like bible hyperlinks is not acceptable. Knowing the comments Logos makes, having MVP's simply restate Logos policy in a way that sounds like the agree with it only makes Logos think they have made the right policy decisions. I appreciate it can be find links to previous statements by Logos staff and apologize for being unfair to you. I simply do not accept Vyrso books are at an acceptable standard when it comes to bible hyperlinks.

On the front page of Vyrso they clearly state Vyrso books work with Logos 4 and Biblia. When there are endemic errors in a resource with bible hyperlinks I don't believe that claim is being lived up to and would be confusing to users who you are suggesting Vyrso is targeting. I am only further compelled by this line of thought when I look at the "What is Vyrso?" page on the Vyrso website. It states the following:

To make such a bold claim bible hyperlinks in Vyrso books must point to the correct scripture references.

And if there is still any doubt about what I am suggesting in Vyrso not meeting their own standards and the expectation that they have put out to customers in terms of the functionality of these resources then surely this following claim also from the "What is Vyrso?" web page is enough to re-enforce as a customer my expectation of Vyrso is not too high in this instance.

Right now the Vyrso book I have raised the issue about, probably its New Testament companion and numerous other Vyrso books similar to these are not living up to this claim above. I don't believe Logos intended this to mean you would get random pop-ups to any scripture dependent upon the luck of the draw of their book compiler, but you would get a pop-up to the correct scripture, at least that's what the blurb and image suggest. Or maybe they've just used the same marketing as McDonalds and Burger King where the advertisement always look's better than what you actually get in real life.

The ball is now Vyrso / Logos court. I have not doubt of the integrity of Logos and Vyrso and the people who work there which is why I am strongly pointing out they should not make a marketing claim and then say because of a company policy we can not to live up to that claim, or it's too expensive to meet that claim about their product. I restate my original premise: Vyrso needs basic quality checking to ensure bible hyperlinks work correctly.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407863#Comment_407863

Thanks, Andrew. There was no need to apologise [:)]. I absolutely agree with you about marketing. Logos often overclaims for its products (certainly by British standards), and if I could change one thing about Logos as a company, that would be it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407841#Comment_407841

It appears like Vyrso is being run like a backyard operation simply as a means to generate cash flow with little respect for what is being handed over to the customer

FWIW - this is my experience of L4.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407841#Comment_407841

I don't believe it is acceptable for an MVP's to say the issues I raise are not going to be dealt with and try and blow away my concerns - I am not paying either of you - the issue I have raised I believe is serious and needs to be addressed by Logos/Vyrso and not people who do not speak on behalf of the company as much as I appreciate your trying to help.

Andrew – I skimmed your response to me and the ones that follow… I need to get ready for church so I don't have time for a more thoughtful response… (I am not offended by the way. [:)])

Briefly: I agree with many of your concerns, but I stand by my comments that I would rather have these resources in the current state than to not have them at all. I agree that these problems may push users away and be counter productive to the company… but most resources don't have all the same issues.

Secondly, every single one of the topics you have addressed I believe HAVE been addressed by Logos employees, including Bob Pritchett. Since I read these forums so much (especially mobile & Vyrso), I have a greater memory about these things. What Mark told you about cost margins is the basic argument. The books are auto processed and having a human checker would 1) make the books cost prohibitive and 2) would seriously delay the release of the works. I would rather not have either of those results.

The blurbs come directly from the publisher. Sometimes they are REALLY funny (and not in a good way). Sometimes I wish I could get a part time gig fixing those things. [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407864#Comment_407864

Thanks, Andrew. There was no need to apologise . I absolutely agree with you about marketing. Logos often overclaims for its products (certainly by British standards), and if I could change one thing about Logos as a company, that would be it.

+1 [Y] for Logos marketing losing hyperbole to become truthful: e.g. recommended hardware for Logos 4 that has decent responsiveness; in contrast to "recommended" essentially being the minimum hardware, which has the same marketing spin as another well-known corporation in the state of Washington.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407892#Comment_407892

(OK. I really have to go this time). [:)]

David Salazar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407653#Comment_407653

The questions for me are always, "how much cheaper" and "how much do I need the book." The primary reason I buy from Vyrso is so that my books are integrated into Logos. Amazon can't beat that, no matter how cheap the books are.

Generally those are my questions also. The reason I buy from Amazon is that I can read those book on my Kindle and app or web. Even if the Kindle book is a little more expensive (and it has to be JUST a LITTLE more) I'll consider getting the Kindle just because I can read it on the Kindle; reading on Kindle is so easy.

Definitely, the Vyrso version has it's advantages, Bible text links and integration with Logos. Though the books from Vryso, I don't ever see really needed on Logos. It's a nice feature to have but one I doubt is really useful for my needs and use.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407919#Comment_407919

The questions for me are always, "how much cheaper" and "how much do I need the book." The primary reason I buy from Vyrso is so that my books are integrated into Logos. Amazon can't beat that, no matter how cheap the books are.

Generally those are my questions also. The reason I buy from Amazon is that I can read those book on my Kindle and app or web. Even if the Kindle book is a little more expensive (and it has to be JUST a LITTLE more) I'll consider getting the Kindle just because I can read it on the Kindle; reading on Kindle is so easy.

Definitely, the Vyrso version has it's advantages, Bible text links and integration with Logos. Though the books from Vryso, I don't ever see really needed on Logos. It's a nice feature to have but one I doubt is really useful for my needs and use.

If you purchased a Kindle Fire you can download the Logos mobile app. Then for the books that you want Scripture links easily accessible you can get them from Vyrso and still read them on the device.

David Salazar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407921#Comment_407921

I was referring to the basic Kindle not the fire. I have a tablet with Amazon, Logos, Vyrso apps. But reading tablet is not the same as reading on the basic kindle, no comparison.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407863#Comment_407863

Going back to Andrew's original point and having written hundreds (literally) of parsers, the sample he copied doesn't appear to have gone through a parser. It didn't pick up standard syllable break symbols and the John > John instead of Jonah is a standard parser pickup. So, I'd assume they pulled in a raw file and translated the references to Logos format.

I notice Logos doesn't invest a lot in easy error checking routines whether in the texts coming in or the Logos.com site. I do but mainly because it's best to routinely keep error levels down so they don't build up. It's very hard to 'go back'.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407931#Comment_407931

Going back to Andrew's original point and having written hundreds (literally) of parsers, the sample he copied doesn't appear to have gone through a parser. It didn't pick up standard syllable break symbols and the John > John instead of Jonah is a standard parser pickup. So, I'd assume they pulled in a raw file and translated the references to Logos format.

The problem isn't caused by confusing between John and Jonah. It's because the parser has assumed that when a reference is given just as chapter:verse, that it refers to the same book that was last explicitly specified. That logic doesn't apply in this instance, presumably because the print editors considered that the gap between the two references was sufficient for readers to understand that in a section about Jonah the implied Bible book was sufficiently obvious.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407932#Comment_407932

Mark, you're right. But then that means the parser is pretty elementary, since it didn't scan the character breaks. So in theory the text source failed to attach Jonah and the Logos parser did a simple pass.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407891#Comment_407891

Secondly, every single one of the topics you have addressed I believe HAVE been addressed by Logos employees, including Bob Pritchett. Since I read these forums so much (especially mobile & Vyrso), I have a greater memory about these things. What Mark told you about cost margins is the basic argument. The books are auto processed and having a human checker would 1) make the books cost prohibitive and 2) would seriously delay the release of the works. I would rather not have either of those results.

Alabama I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you did not read closely my last response as you were getting ready for church, but the simple fact is Logos HAVE NOT addressed these issues I raised. They HAVE MADE EXCUSES. It's time to call a spade a spade, this is not a hyperbole. My last post clearly demonstrates the claim that bible hyperlinks work in VYRSO books. And your continual defeding of the company by bringing up statments made in the past where they have made excuses for not meeting what they are advertising is only digging a deeper hole, if that's possible at this point. If you had of respected my orginal post for what it was I probably wouldn't have been driven to point out how deeply Logos is doing the wrong thing here, But you felt it necessary to whitewash Logos/Vyrso lack of action on this issue.

I appreciate Logos and the tools and resources I have access to through them, and don't like having to make posts like this, but I am a customer of a service they are providing it to me, and so I don't wear Logos coloured glasses and I don't accept it when they make claims they are not meeting. Maybe advertising law in US is different but Logos would be in serious trouble in my country if they came up with these excuses for not meeting the claims they are making about the Vyrso product.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407974#Comment_407974

You know there is a simple solution to this problem: If a resource does not meet your expectations and needs, return it. Enough returns and the publisher will do something about it. Bickering over the interpretation of what Logos has said is one adverse side-effect of using Logos - the scholars are always bickering about interpretation in their work.[;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407981#Comment_407981

You know there is a simple solution to this problem: If a resource does not meet your expectations and needs, return it. Enough returns and the publisher will do something about it. Bickering over the interpretation of what Logos has said is one adverse side-effect of using Logos - the scholars are always bickering about interpretation in their work

MJ I appreciate your intent with your comment but it's a red herring. This is not bickering, its a serious issue. And its not the publisher's issue. Logos under the Vyrso label is making the claim, not the publisher. They have made a claim about the standard of resources they are producing and are not meeting that standard. E4 standard resources is not the claim they make about the Vyrso product. If I just buried my head in the sand, put on Logos coloured glasses and swept this under the carpet and simply asked for a refund the probelm would still remain not only in this resource but every other resource where this issue exists because Logos are not quality checking their work on Vyrso books to ensure they are meeting their marketing claims to the customer. I can not simply close my eyes and pretend this is not happeing. This impacts not just me but every customer who reads the claims of their webstie and is been given a false expectation.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408002#Comment_408002

MJ I appreciate your intent with your comment but it's a red herring.

It is no kind of fish - it is a polite attempt to make the point that griping to other users does nothing to further your cause. I've agreed that your issue is just - so take it up with Logos not Logos users.Logos users can't fix the problem, they can only "vote" with their purchases or lack thereof.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408006#Comment_408006

I am not griping to other users. It is other user who keep telling me I am wrong for not being satisfied with the situation, who keep putting me in the position of continually having to re-inforce their are clear claims on the Vyrso webiste that are not being met. If they stop, then I wont' have further need to respond.

I have put my concerns for the Vyrso team here. Despite yoru belief they dont' read these forums, they do and regularly respond to issues raised here. If you don't share my depth of concern that is fine, I am not asking your or anyonelse too. That does not give anyone a right to tell me I should not post about my concern. This is not a gripe. This is a issue of truth in advertising that I am raising. If you don't get that don't call it griping. Just move on to the the next thread.

MJ I appreciate your intent with your comment but it's a red herring.

It is no kind of fish - it is a polite attempt to make the point that griping to other users does nothing to further your cause. I've agreed that your issue is just - so take it up with Logos not Logos users.Logos users can't fix the problem, they can only "vote" with their purchases or lack thereof.

Brian Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408016#Comment_408016

Thank you for voicing your concern, and making us aware of the issue in Mark Dever's sermon on Jonah. We will look into the issue and let you know if the fix can be implemented in our system. As many other users mentioned, some errors are out of our control. These errors fall inside the publisher's area of influence, see Bob's thread here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/33752/253166.aspx#253166

Your satisfaction as a customer is one of our highest concerns; we are continually striving to better our system, improve our editing, and provide a higher quality product. I apologize that we did not live up to your expectations. I also apologize that you felt criticized for expressing your dissatisfaction, I don't think the other customers intended to make an issue of your analysis. We value you as a customer and appreciate you candor.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/407974#Comment_407974

Alabama I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you did not read closely my last response as you were getting ready for church, but the simple fact is Logos HAVE NOT addressed these issues I raised. They HAVE MADE EXCUSES.

I didn't mean to say that the answers were satisfactory… only to say that they had spoken about them. I appreciate your perspective, and as I said previously, I agree with much of what you had said. I apologize if I have offended you, which was not my intent.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408028#Comment_408028

Alabama I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you did not read closely my last response as you were getting ready for church, but the simple fact is Logos HAVE NOT addressed these issues I raised. They HAVE MADE EXCUSES.

I didn't mean to say that the answers were satisfactory… only to say that they had spoken about them. I appreciate your perspective, and as I said previously, I agree with much of what you had said. I apologize if I have offended you, which was not my intent.

Than you Alabama, it's not about me being offended but the appearance of MVP's trying to cover up the elephant in the room that I choose to uncover because nobody else is prepared to do so. Covered or not the elephant remains in the room - advertising claims are being made that Vyrso / Logos are not able to meet due to the model they have adopted for creating these resources. If they are to meet the claims on the website they need to do quality checking.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408026#Comment_408026

As many other users mentioned, some errors are out of our control. These errors fall inside the publisher's area of influence

What? Brian, your statement ticked me off beyond belief. I consider your statement simply B.S., and another example of how Logos does not care about quality control.

It is one thing to say that these types of issues are not found by Logos' automated process, but it is completely another thing to blame the publishers for the lack of Logos' quality control!

It is not up to the publishers to create a file that will work for Vysro! While it is very difficult for an automatic system to catch these type of errors, but your automatic system can flag the file to be looked at manually to see how it should be tagged.

Again, for Logos to blame the publisher for these type of errors is simply uncalled for and unprofessional!!!!!!!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408026#Comment_408026

Thank you for voicing your concern, and making us aware of the issue in Mark Dever's sermon on Jonah.

Brian the issue if you properly read what I posted it is not limited to just this part of the book but the whole book has problems. And I suspect given the lack of quality control this sort of problem will exist in other books.

. As many other users mentioned, some errors are out of our control. These errors fall inside the publisher's area of influence, see Bob's thread here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/33752/253166.aspx#253166

The error I have raised is not the publisher's issue. It is Logos who does the conversion of the books, it is Logos who is making the claims that in their advertising that bible hyperlinks work. The publisher doesn't create the hyperlinks. This issue goes beyond my personal satisfaction to a much deeper issue as I have already repeated a number of times. I respect all of what I have raised is not in your control and it can not be fixed overnight but Logos needs to stop pretending an issue does not exist - the elephant is in the room, and I'd hate to see if step on Logos one day because they keep pretending it is not there.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408098#Comment_408098

Tom ... before you get out the pitchfork (it IS October ... hayrides .... fun) ... I think you'd have to read their contracts. I'd give pretty good odds the publisher doesn't allow too much 'messing around' with the text on these (low margin; low pass-through costs). I'm just guessing obviously.

Bob Pritchett

I am sorry you are unhappy with the level of tagging in this resource.

As many people have pointed out, there's a reason we clearly separated the Vyrso and Logos brands; we are simply unable to give the EPUBs that go into Vyrso the same level of attention and quality control that we give Logos Editions. We process the EPUBs automatically with scripts, and do not have a hand-editing phase in the process.

This book would probably have been better done as a Logos Edition; our intention is to license most "Bible reference" content for Logos Editions and use Vyrso for fiction, Christian living, etc. But we sometimes make mistakes, and sometimes a publisher only wants to license a title one way. (I do not know the case with this specific book.)

I did look up the sales, and while I can't tell you exactly how much we have made on the few copies of this $7.49 book we have sold, I can tell you it's not enough to cover the time we've spent discussing it here, let alone the time it would take to have a person review the Bible reference tagging by hand. (Which is the only way to fix the script errors, and what we do for Logos Editions.)

A) I have issued a $10 credit to you, Andrew, by way of refund/apology. By using a credit, you can keep the book but effectively get your money back. If you want cash, we can process an actual refund and re-lock the title.

I will forward this title to our publisher relations team, and see if we can license it for a Logos Edition in the future, and remind them that it's important to make sure all commentary and Bible reference type titles go that direction, instead of through Vyrso.

We do care about quality, but like all businesses we have to decide what that means for particular brands and product lines. (A "quality" fast food burger, for example, will never be the same as a "quality" linen-tablecloth-steak-house burger. And fixing a quality complaint at the fast food restaurant means returning your dollar, not sending it back to be re-made with $10 of higher quality ingredients.)

I do feel bad about this, and about your obvious frustration and unhappiness. That's why we discontinued letting third-parties make "Logos" ebooks -- we weren't happy with the quality. And if this was a Logos Edition I'd have out team re-tag it, even at a loss. But with thousands of batch-processed titles, each selling very few units and generating tiny margins, we simply can't afford to do that for Vyrso.

Again, I'm sorry for the frustration.

-- Bob

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/408198#Comment_408198

I am sorry you are unhappy with the level of tagging in this resource.

Bob thank you for taking the time to respond. I was not looking for any sort of refund, but for the bigger problem to be dealt with and that remains - similar resources put through the Vyrso label will have the same problem. They require a much greater level of care than they can be given under the model you have adopted for Vyrso - these title are failing to live up to your advertising on the Vyrso website and that is not a good look for Logos Bible Software - this is of much greater concern to me than personal inconvenience, as frustrating as that might be, and the point I have been trying to get across all along. I respect you can't change what has been done overnight or even tomorrow but I hope this episode see some more thought given into what is put under the Vyrso label and we don't' continue to see the wrong resources produced under it. There is a place for Vyrso but it should not be used for resources that are scripture heavy - otherwise you will continue to not meet the expectations created by your advertising on the Vyrso website. Thank you for your time Bob.