L5 Silver or lower level now or wait for L6?

I don't want that much of what's in Silver, unless my Theological college (where I start ~ in the Fall 2014) sees some of them as good reads and complements to the books they require. I explained today in a post that I edited 1½ hours ago or less, how I think: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/60016/427181.aspx#427181 Also look at the links I give there, if You have time to!

DMB pointed out in: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59823/427225.aspx#427225 ... a few minutes ago that "But the good news, as you saw in another thread yesterday, is the the RI's are probably on their 'last legs' in Logos and will be phased out with Logos6".

Maybe it would be good to choose an even lower level than L5 Silver or just the minimal crossgrade? I wouldn't save much but it would be nice to cherry-pick only what I want. And then upgrade to Silver or equivalent in L6?

A good advice is to think of being a L user all Your life - so there will be many more version numbers, at least since I'm not old (soon 31 in the turn of the month), and subsequent times when You'll have to consider what upgrade or crossgrade to make.

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Wayne

Maybe it would be good to choose an even lower level than L5 Silver or just the minimal crossgrade? I wouldn't save much but it would be nice to cherry-pick only what I want

The first rule is buy what you need know. I have purchased some packages and due to the searching capabilities I have ended up using more books that I would have believed. I teach a variety of subjects and many of the books in my L4 platinum package have come in handy.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427243#Comment_427243

As I've very rarely had friends I have been able to focus on Christianity - but I've been serious since the end of the summer last year, and before the mid '00s. I haven't planned on making money. I haven't thought about it a lot: but writing a book might be intresting but that would be a very long time from now.

The items on Psychology of religion might be worth having. Plus Thoughts for the Quiet Hour, Pastoral Visitation: A Pocket Manual and A Complete Guide to Sermon Delivery, but the latter two I would value just $5 each.

The first rule is buy what you need to know.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427245#Comment_427245

I'm always happy for a book that teaches Gk, and Bronze and up has:

2005-2007Kairos: A Beginning Greek Grammar with Workbook and Answer Key (3 vols.)
All base-packages (even Starter and the minimal crossgrade) have the 1887-1995 the Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament (which wasn't included in my Logos 4 base-packages)
The minimal crossgrade and Bronze and up have: Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Septuagint: H.B. Swete Edition which can't be bought separately.

Plus Silver and up has: 1788 A Compendium of Christian Theology

My girlfriend was surprised this morning that Silver contains so many books - that's negative.
My college may be delighted if I have

The New Manners and Customs of Bible Times

Here's my most recent considerations about Bronze: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59980/427607.aspx#427607

What I have now are the Original Languages Library and L4 Catholic Foundations Library (which is equivalent to Verbum Basic).

David Taylor, Jr.

I bought the crossgrade and it is very pleasing. All of the new features and no unwanted resources.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427692#Comment_427692

I would manage without some of the new features and databases.

I bought the crossgrade and it is very pleasing. All of the new features and no unwanted resources.

David Bailey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427697#Comment_427697

I would manage without some of the new features and databases.
I bought the crossgrade and it is very pleasing. All of the new features and no unwanted resources.

Sounds like the lowest cost L5 upgrade is for you - can't recall the link, but it is about $70 I think.

Edit: see here: http://www.logos.com/product/28494/logos-5-core-datasets

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427714#Comment_427714

Core Datasets is $79.95 for me.

Starter is $132 for me. I've done calculations during the weekend, showing that Starter wouldn't be a good options - it's missing so many items I would buy - and it still has many English Bibles that I DON'T want.

Sounds like the lowest cost L5 upgrade is for you - can't recall the link, but it is about $70 I think.

I found a review of L5 Silver: http://siberiangrinder.com/?p=3576&lang=ru

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427722#Comment_427722

Starter...still has many English Bibles that I DON'T want.

You'll never buy any package if you reject them because they have content you don't want. Besides, all the packages have the same Bibles that Starter has.

If that's an issue, then just buy the crossgrade or core datasets. Otherwise, decide what you do want and only pick a package based on that.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427746#Comment_427746

Some of the new datasets and features in Silver would be useful, it's just that out of all the ones I want, measured in $ I don't value them very high . Since there's little diffence in how many unwanted items there are in Silver compared to Bronze or Starter, I might as well choose Silver (or Bronze) then. Later today I'm going to do calculations again on how I value the content of Silver.
Another thing I don't value as high as the price for it, are all the Bible reference material in Silver. Silver sure seems to have the most emphasis on such out of all base-packages.

You'll never buy any package if you reject them because they have content you don't want. Besides, all the packages have the same Bibles that Starter has.
If that's an issue, then just buy the crossgrade or core datasets. Otherwise, decide what you do want and only pick a package based on that.
Starter...still has many English Bibles that I DON'T want.

My theological college has still not responded to all the emails I've
sent asking if the books in Silver would be of use - I guess they don't
understand why I'm asking since few of the books I'm enquiring about are
required literature in the courses in question. I'll just have to
guess by myself?

... and whether I need/have use of http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_5$3a_Bible_Word_Study#Senses_section in that course.
The course is about the synoptic Gospels. 5 weeks if full time. (But it's part-time.)

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428434#Comment_428434

My theological college has still not responded to all the emails I've
sent asking if the books in Silver would be of use - I guess they don't
understand why I'm asking since few of the books I'm enquiring about are
required literature in the courses in question. I'll just have to
guess by myself?

For example the course Jesus and the Gospels, I wanted to know if the following books would be of use:

... and whether I need/have use of http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_5$3a_Bible_Word_Study#Senses_section in that course.
The course is about the synoptic Gospels. 5 weeks if full time. (But it's part-time.)

You may be asking questions that cannot be answered. The reading list may change depending upon which professor teaches the course and a particular professor may change the syllabus over time. I can't imagine a professor giving a definitive answer today about which books he will require 2-3 years from now.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428455#Comment_428455

I'm not asking them what books are REQUIRED (it says which ones on the homepage of every course).
I just noticed that one book that I think is beneficial in one of the cources I'm gonna take, is only available in a $100 bundle and in base-packages Silver and above, I'm not going to buy the whole bundle:
The Christian and Social Responsibility Charles Ryrie Legacy Collection Upgrade (17 vols.)

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428553#Comment_428553

Advice still welcome! I haven't ordered yet, but I talked to my sales-rep Bart and he didn't give me further discount on neither Bronze nor Silver.
I'm a bit undecided which one to order. Silver has two books that I'll need in college that are not in Bronze and that are (very) difficult to add separately BUT I'm not personally all that intrested in those 2 topics. It just that I'll probably have to study a couple of such unintresting topics in order to qualify for things that I do want to read, such as the course I just mentioned above and Biblical Gk. (I'll read Classical Gk first, before the theological college in a secular uni.)

I was thinking of the BDAG/HALOT bundle in Customize, but canceled it since I rather wait for a new revision of BDAG and just get BDAG and not the bundle (I'm not going to study Hebrew).

Levi Durfey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428660#Comment_428660

It's admirable that you are trying to plan ahead, and we should all do that to a degree. But you stated that you aren't going to theological college until Fall 2014. A lot can happen to you, the college (e.g., professors come and go), and Logos in that amount of time. Plan what you can, but live in today.

So, get what you can afford AND use right now. If you can afford Silver right now and get those couple books that you want, go ahead.

If not, get Bronze, and start saving your money for books that you would like to get when you actually start in Fall 2014. Call it your Future Book Fund or whatever. That way, when you do actually start classes, you'll have money for books that you find that you need.

Trying to figure out what books you'll need and desire two years from is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree.

You'll never be short of books that you need to buy and read in theological college, but you will be short of money to buy them! Save and buy what you need when you know for sure that you need it.

P.S. There will be a lot of Logos sales between now and then!

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428685#Comment_428685

This thread was down for almost a week but now it's up again, (I asked the technical customer service to fix it). I still want more advice! My idea with upgrading would be that I get a bunch of books cheap and then during holidays and vacations before the course starts read the books that cover the same topics - that way I would be prepared. If the knowledge and the books are not required it will probably still proove to be beneficial knowledge and time well spent.

Trying to figure out what books you'll need and desire two years from is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree.

If looking at how frequently the revisions have been rolled out, the
new revision would come in 2021. That's a long wait but I really think I
rather wait.

I rather wait for a new revision of BDAG
and just get BDAG and not the bundle (I'm not going to study
Hebrew).

If I've calculated correctly which titles I will need in the theological colleges Silver would be the only base-package which would save me money: ~$130. But note that I haven't put ANY of the reference books in neither Bronze nor Silver in my list of titles I want or think I will need.

That approach wouldn't help nor make any actual difference when thinking of that You focused on affording. My fincances during studies won't be neither better nor worse later on compared to now. If I end up buying the exact same books, when doesn't make any difference financially.
I have other piorities than books, too. I would like to buy a moped-car sometime in the future - I'm saving my study allowance for that.

get what you can afford AND use right now. If
you can afford Silver right now and get those couple books that you
want, go ahead.
If not, get Bronze, and start saving your money for books that you would
like to get when you actually start in Fall 2014. Call it your Future
Book Fund or whatever. That way, when you do actually start classes,
you'll have money for books that you find that you need.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427697#Comment_427697

I would manage without some of the new features and databases.
I bought the crossgrade and it is very pleasing. All of the new features and no unwanted resources.

Ok, so what exactly are you wanting then? I wouldn't wait for L6 though, that is way away from now I am sure. Also, you could always just upgrade to the free engine next year and not have the new features but have the interface.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/432399#Comment_432399

Things like phrase search, clause search, NT referent data, books to read before the basic courses start. Right now my library is too narrow and focused on languages and manuscripts.

I'm going to buy individual volumes of commentaries and/or upgrades to sets, but I don't have almost any use for the commentaries that come with the base-packages Bronze and Silver. I don't like all the lanuage resources that come with base packages: in lower and mid base-packages the best lexicons are absent (BDAG which is in the high base-package Platinum is probably better than Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT) (10 vols.) which comes with Silver and is already in my Original Languages base-package.) From what I've seen none of the Septuagint items in are based on the best text-criticism, see: http://www.christianforums.com/t7653202-post60820357/#post60820357
... "I like NETS. It is a top-notch, scholarly work by amazing translators. When there are different Greek versions of a text, it includes both—something I had never seen before. And it is based off of the Gottingen series, [...]"
EDIT: I didn't do a search until now, the Gottingen series is VERY expensive indeed: http://www.logos.com/products/search?q=gottingen ... and I don't need all volumes, so unless Logos is going to split it up (which seems unlikely to me) I'll just have to buy the volume I want as printed matter.

Starting from a low level and always upgrading only little-by-little at each new version number roll-out, would guarantee the best chances to get as new books as possible (something which is often a problem with Logos), something to upgrade to (if I upgrade to L5 Silver this time I will rarely upgrade to a higher base-package anymore) and a focus on paying for the newest features and datasets.

Milford Charles Murray

DMB pointed out in: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59823/427225.aspx#427225 ... a few minutes ago that "But the good news, as you saw in another thread yesterday, is the the RI's are probably on their 'last legs' in Logos and will be phased out with Logos6".

Peace to you, Unix! *smile* You come across as a very sincere and dedicated and quite intense young man; and I wish you well and every blessing from the Lord! Indeed!

I'm glad that you are seeking guidance and advice from your brothers and sisters on the Logos Forums as you point yourself and your future in a certain direction.

I'm sure DMB (also fondly known as Denise who is "sharp as a tack") is very seldom "wrong"! Televisions Fonzie didn't appreciate being "wrong," eh???

However, I think DMB is quite mistaken about "the RI's are probably on their 'last legs' in Logos and will be phased out with Logos6". Your plans, dear Unix, should take that intlo account.

My wife and I went shopping for a graveyard plot a few days ago .... (Unless we end up getting cremated after all and ask our three kids to host us on their "proverbial" fireplace mantels. It would be great if the Lord Jesus came for me, rather than having me go to him the ancient and traditional way........ What I'm saying (and I truly have a real zest for life and thank Jesus for Eternal Life and the Abundant Life here!!!) .... I will be long, long in my grave before Logos gives up the RI's! *smile* .... Always Joy in the Lord!

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428685#Comment_428685

Advice still wanted!

Thank's Milford! I'll show Your post to my girlfriend!

When I feel that the college doesn't dig deep enough or doesn't have a broad enough view, I want to be able to do some research on my own or ask the senior lecturer which of the books I have he/she thinks could be good reads. I wonder if a base-package is the right sollution for that and which level I need?

You'll never be short of books that you need to buy and read in theological college,

There is a dicussion I've started about this same thing (whether Silver is the right level for me) in: http://www.christianforums.com/t7702881-post61797428/#post61797428

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/433661#Comment_433661

Advice still needed!

Just read this: http://www.christianforums.com/t7702841/#post61868314 ... it's disappointing that Logos offers the first edition from 1914 (included in Original Languages (and Silver)) but not this third, newest edition from 2005. Source: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32317/241153.aspx#241153

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/434190#Comment_434190

Hello Unix,

I am late to this discussion but a few things to keep in mind:

one: There are other Logos5 basepackages some you can see here: http://www.logos.com/catholic#compare

as well one you can't see: the Biblical Languages packages you have to call sales about.

two: These packages aren't the last word:

I expect we may even have other specialized collections.

Fri, Nov 23 2012 7:38 AM(link)

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428434#Comment_428434

Thanks, BKMitchell! But Pritchett probably doesn't think that the kind of theology I would want sells. I have Original Languages, which must be quite equivalent to Biblical Languages.

The professor has replied now, he couldn't reply earlier because he was in the U.S. on conferences etc.:My theological college has still not responded to all the emails I've
sent asking if the books in Silver would be of use - I guess they don't
understand why I'm asking since few of the books I'm enquiring about are
required literature in the courses in question. I'll just have to
guess by myself?

For example the course Jesus and the Gospels, I wanted to know if the following books would be of use:
Why Four Gospels?
Theological Lexicon of the New Testament (3 vols.)
The Four-Fold Gospel
Eusebian Canons
The Unexpected Jesus
Jesus Is Lord: Christology Yesterday and TodayThe professor said: that he thinks that Why Four Gospels and The Four-Fold Gospel are dated but he didn't know these two titles, and that The Unexpected Jesus and Jesus is Lord: Christology Yesterday and Today while being new are not on an academic level (and he didn't know The Unexpected Jesus). The rest are not needed at all. Gk is not needed in this course.

He said that if I have access to the Bible Senses Lexicon I can have use of it for depth.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427577#Comment_427577

Anyone who still wants to give advice is welcome!

When I looked more closely at it, that one is not that intresting anymore:

Plus Silver and up has: 1788 A Compendium of Christian Theology

I just read in: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58108/434735.aspx#434735 that fgh thinks that the ordinary base-packages are very evangelical. I've heard people say that before. That bothers me a bit. Although I'm not saying that I want all that much RC content either.

Now I found some information about one of the books in Silver that would be useful in the psychology of religion course: http://www.bookwire.com/The-Christian-and-Social-Responsibility-9781938484063.html

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/435295#Comment_435295

Anyone who still wants to give advice is welcome!

the ordinary base-packages are very evangelical. I've heard people say that before. That bothers me a bit. Although I'm not saying that I want all that much RC content either.

Now I found some information about one of the books in Silver that would be useful in the psychology of religion course: http://www.bookwire.com/The-Christian-and-Social-Responsibility-9781938484063.html

I am confused that you state you are bothered by the base packages being very evangelical, then your next statement is that a resource by Charles Ryrie (who is squarely in the conservative side of American evangelicalism) would be useful.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/435417#Comment_435417

When needed - almost regardless of what I read or study - I'm cautious about what theology has been applied (and a bit critical too - which can be seen in for example which commentaries I've bought such as Hermeneia and Biblical Performance Criticism Series (4 vols.)) - but what I do is that I try to filter the books. So I want to read good scholars and am aware of that they can come from many different denominations. I will be taking some classes in a Protestant college so there are books in Silver (many of them in Bronze) that will proove to be good to have.

What I especially would like to avoid, are pentecostal titles (I have just one pentecostal book that I like: The Jimmy Swaggart Bible, it's a commentary, I have just one volume on 1 Cor, I thought it was intresting to see how a person who believes glossolalia is OK interprets the book in the Bible that speaks about that), methodism, wesleyanism, reformed.
In my latest purchases, pre-orders, and collections that I'm considering to pre-order I haven't chosen Anglican or Lutheran ones, but rather Anabaptist, Methodist, early reformation (John Huss), and works where many have collaborated (so that I haven't had time yet to figure out which theology each collaborator adheres to), but like I said I'm unsure about the methodist collection.

the ordinary base-packages are very evangelical. I've heard people say that before. That bothers me a bit. Although I'm not saying that I want all that much RC content either.
Now I found some information about one of the books in Silver that would be useful in the psychology of religion course: http://www.bookwire.com/The-Christian-and-Social-Responsibility-9781938484063.html

I am confused that you state you are bothered by the base packages being very evangelical, then your next statement is that a resource by Charles Ryrie (who is squarely in the conservative side of American evangelicalism) would be useful.

More on the composition of the base-packages
I can see that both Silver and Bronze contain equally little Biblical Studies titles, and that Silver doesn't have The Creeds of Christendom (3 vols.) and Handbook for Hebrew Exegesis, so that's something I'm glad about.

So, the content being evangelical Protestant is not the worst possible option. Each of the the new Logos 5 base-package includes everything from the Logos 5 base-packages that are lower, so I get really annoying things like apologetics (Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics) and Ministry.

Besides my preferences for theology which I've explained (You can see more about that on my Logos profile) which is not markedly adherent to any specific existing denomination, I largely go by topics covered - i.e. the content. For an example, while the title Creeds, Councils and Controversies: Documents Illustrating the History of the Church, AD 337–461, New Edition because of the general theological bent of the base-packages may or may not be theologically what I would like to see I may have some use of this title at some point in my studies if I have it (included in Silver, Verbum Scripture Study, Essential Reference Bundle or Early Church History Collection), whereas none of the other titles in Silver under the heading Church History are of any use whatsoever - much because I regard them as unreliable and rather read more critical history such as: Paul Johnson (1979). History of Christianity. (not available in Logos) which I have as an original hardback since ~a year.

So I do need documents and things like that on my computer, especially because I don't have internet, to be able to study efficiently. I wish they would have included more such in Silver instead of so many Sermons. While I'm not as annoyed by the the titles under the heading Sermons I value those extremely low, not just because of theological issues but because of what type of books I usually buy. I admit that it's much better though to have sermons on the computer than as printed matter. However, like I said those add no actual value!! So what I mean is that I'm really not seduced by the number of books.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/434190#Comment_434190

Hi Unix!

A couple of tidbits...

1. Don't wait for L6. L5 is excellent, and you should go ahead and upgrade. Waiting for L6 will be a long wait and there's plenty to enjoy today.

2. If you don't want the new books but want all the L5 datasets, checkout the L5 Minimal Crossgrade, not the L5 Core Datasets. That'll give you all the new L5 datasets, as well as some additional resources, just not all the new base collection stuff.

3. If you're going for a base collection, get the highest one you can possibly afford. I went for L5 Platinum, and I can already tell there's some new books there I'll definitely use. You might not think you need all the extra books by going higher, but I've noticed that after getting a higher base collection, it was worth it. Time and time again I've needed books in it and glad I got it. Once I can afford it, I want to try to get into Diamond.

4. I would probably recommend at least Silver. Silver is what I had way back when I first started buying Logos collections, and I wouldn't go less than Silver. What you can do if you want Silver plus all the L5 datasets is get Silver, then add on the Minimal Crossgrade. The MC would only be a few extra dollars to add on after getting Silver, and that'll give you a wealth of new books plus all of the L5 datasets.

5. You could also look at Gold, then you wouldn't need to MC at all. You'd get all of the L5 datasets and a lot of good books. That might be out of your price range though. If it is, stick with Silver and do the MC afterwards. You'll get a wealth of books for seminary and have all the L5 tools.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/436009#Comment_436009

Could anyone tell me: what are some Silver titles that I haven't mentioned that could interest me or proove useful? Preferably list other things than reference, my primary use of Logos is really not as reference and like I've stated in a post in this thread there is too much weight on reference in Silver!

3. If you're going for a base collection, get the highest one you can possibly afford. I went for L5 Platinum, and I can already tell there's some new books there I'll definitely use. You might not think you need all the extra books by going higher, but I've noticed that after getting a higher base collection, it was worth it. Time and time again I've needed books in it and glad I got it. Once I can afford it, I want to try to get into Diamond.
4. I would probably recommend at least Silver.

The MC after purchasing Silver would be $6 according to posts I've seen. According to the overview from a couple of weeks ago, Gold would add 2 resources + 1 dataset that could be purchased and added separately to Silver for $70. The downsides would be a whole lot of undesired content which I'm sure I wouldn't use. I wouldn't value the additional books many ¢ a piece. I'm being honest to myself and everyone about this. The discount %:age wouldn't be greater.

5. You could also look at Gold, then you wouldn't need to MC at all. You'd get all of the L5 datasets and a lot of good books. That might be out of your price range though. If it is, stick with Silver and do the MC afterwards. You'll get a wealth of books for seminary and have all the L5 tools.

When I upgraded to L4 I didn't see Scholar's as an alternative at all. Bronze is said to be equivalent to it now in L5.

A quote from another review of L5 base-packages: http://jeltzz.blogspot.com/2012/11/logos-logos-5-and-why-their-sales-model.html
"bundles work best when they are a synergistic bunch of books/products
that you would want together. The bundles in the base package aren't
really like that: they are huge bundles of books that I would never buy
in print, probably never read, and many of them are of lesser quality.
Short of getting Platinum/Diamond/Portfolio level packages, most of the
decent resources in terms of books are not included. So you not only pay
more to get more resources, you have to pay more to get better resources.

Essentially this is junk-bundling."

Another review, actually Libronix Scholar's Silver 2004 Edition: http://www.bookreviews.org/bookdetail.asp?TitleId=4873
A quote: "My experience with the program is that it suffices for basic work."
The review takes up English Bibles, original language recources, commentaries and Church History, and after that says: "The rest of the material in the library is aimed at pastors. These include the Fresh Ideas Series, the Leadership Library Series, Library for Leadership Development, Library of Christian Leadership, Mastering Ministry Series, Pastor’s Soul Series, Pressure Point Series, Bible study training, sermons, quotations, small-group resources, home school and Christian education, Christian living, and useful devotions."

Another quote from the review: "From a scholarly point of view, the library could still be improved in spite of the great value the library already has. Books on hermeneutics and exegetical methods, for instance, largely lack. Two books are indeed listed under the heading hermeneutics, but they are not sufficient. There are excellent books available on methods for reading ancient texts. I am thinking of books like that of Wilhelm Egger, Joel Green, Stanley Porter, Howard Fee, or even the older book of Howard Marshall on New Testament interpretation, to name but a few. There are also several books on hermeneutics, of which those of Thiselton (Two Horizons and New Horizons) would be a really valuable addition to this library. Then there are books on narratology by, for instance, Tolmie or Powell, books on sociology by Elliott, and so forth. A proper overview of the history of Old and New Testament research would also be of value. There are also significant theologies on both Old and New Testament. Even some of the older ones, such as that of von Rad, Bultmann, or Goppelt, are still influential and would enhance the quality of this library. It would be a positive step if Logos could pay some attention to these areas.
Obviously, this raises the question of price. I am sure Logos could include many more books (as is suggested above), but what would the effect be on the price?"
And: "I especially recommend lecturers to encourage their students to start out with Logos."

And here is yet another review of Logos 5 generally: http://www.robertdryer.com/?p=3982
A quote: "Any gripes about Logos? [...] it is clearly skewed towards a Reformed/Calvinist bent in its
presentation of orthodox Christianity. Because of this skew the breadth
and scope of study in orthodox Christianity is hindered. But frankly one
probably won’t notice this unless you’re an avid and well informed
student of Christianity and its traditions systematically, analytically,
and dogmatically. However, I notice it at every level of the software’s
content and I think this is a blind spot for its creators."

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/436373#Comment_436373

I need to look over your list, but resources such as the New American Commentary, Early Church Fathers, and back on Logos 2/Series X, it contained all the datasets for the "Biblical Languages Supplement" (which I'm sure it still does, just with new names) sealed it for me. I'd have to look at the latest Silver list to see what would be ideal for you, but way back when, those three items alone sealed it.

In Platinum 4, I'm glad I went for it way back when. It added some ethics books and some additional tools I needed desperately in college. Platinum 5 added Shaeffer and some other titles I've been wanting or needing.

Silver plus the MC would be a good way for you to go. If you truly believe you're going to use the books in Gold and can afford it, go for it. It's amazing what books I actually end up needing when I never thought I'd need them. College has thrown me for surprises time and time again when I've been asked to write this paper or that book review and I have absolutely no idea what books to consult or what I should be writing about. Logos has saved me time and time again. :-)

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/434243#Comment_434243

Hello Unix,

I have Original Languages, which must be quite equivalent to Biblical Languages.

I too have Logos4 Original Languages, but not Logos5 Biblical language package as I upgraded to Logos 5 core Databasesets before I learned of the Logos5 Biblical language package. At, this point no one has reported on what the new Logos5 Biblical language package includes and it seems it is only sold over the phone but I like you assume it must be similar, too. Anyway, I think it might be best if you too go with the Core Database sets and just add what you need.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/436730#Comment_436730

I don't need NAC. You can see from my Logos profile that I have covered much of the Bible with a different commentary set - it's not complete but I'm not concerned about covering every book of the Bible with a real commentary, often introductions are enough, for that I have: Oxford Encyclopedia of the Books of the Bible.
I have the Early Church Fathers Catholic Edition since I have the L4 Catholic Foundations (equivalent to L5 Verbum Basic) and the only difference to the Protestant Edition is the notes, not the text. My sales-rep told me that I would be discounted because I own the Church Fathers even though it's not the exactly same Edition, if I would upgrade to an L5 base-package that has it.I need to look over your list, but resources such as the New American Commentary, Early Church Fathers, and back on Logos 2/Series X, it contained all the datasets for the "Biblical Languages Supplement" (which I'm sure it still does, just with new names) sealed it for me.I asked someone to do a search on "Yoder" in the Silver base-package. In Rediscovering Expository Preaching his book H. Wayne Pitkin and John H. Yoder, trans. and ed., Balthasar Hubmaier, Theologian of Anabaptism (Scottsdale, Ariz.: Herald, 1989) is referenced, Rediscovering Expository Preaching writes: "Influenced by Zwingli was the Anabaptist, Balthasar Hubmaier (1485–1528), who, despite heavy persecution, produced writings filled with the exposition of Scripture"
I have the John Howard Yoder Collection (12 vols.) in pre-order.
+ Barnabas Lindars gets used by the author of NAC Heb, is in the bibliography of these 3 books: NAC 1, 2 Peter, Jude, The Bible Knowledge Commentary and Baker's Dictionary of Practical Theology. I wouldn't use NAC for Heb, the commentary I have is acknowledged as better and closer to the theology I believe in.
The Catholic college replied now regarding the OT course, and he said something like that http://www.logos.com/product/10488/philo-and-holy-scripture-text-and-apparatus would have been good but that the book is from the 19th century.
It was hard for him to say because he didn't know these 3 books:
http://www.logos.com/product/1157/a-survey-of-old-testament-introduction
http://www.logos.com/product/2217/the-bible-guide
http://www.logos.com/product/16941/the-complete-book-of-when-and-where-in-the-bible-and-throughout-history
And he also said that the publisher of http://www.logos.com/product/2672/building-your-biblical-hebrew-vocabulary is very serious but that the book is not needed unless I want to learn Hebrew.
And he said that http://www.logos.com/product/5798/baker-encyclopedia-of-the-bible is probably all right but that it's 25 years old.
Just getting databases would cost something too, and Core Datasets doesn't contain that much. The options of getting datasets only would cause the same problem as Silver: that my Logos would function mainly just as reference - unless I afford adding a lot of quality books highly specific for what I need.I think it might be best if you too go with the Core Database sets and just add what you need.In my previous post I mentioned the Libronix (that is L3) Scholar's Silver -review. Well, L5 Silver doesn't contain the whole Pastoral Leadership Bundle = Fresh Ideas + Leadership Library + Library of Leadership Development + Library of Christian Leadership + Mastering Ministry + Pastor’s Soul + Pressure Point -series. Good that it doesn't contain the entire Pastoral Leadership Bundle, but those type of resources are of no use (yet?) so that's one reason why I have been thinking of waiting until L6.

Daniel Luke Gonzalez

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/436815#Comment_436815

After reading through the forum, didn't see anyone mention the wealth of value that Silver has by containing the Church Fathers and the Apostolic Father's interlinear. Being in a training for Theology myself, I can tell you that those two resources are invaluable for some good research. Especially since you can do the cited by search function against these two resources. Had to translate a passage from 1 Clement for my Intermediate Greek class and Logos shortened my homework time down to two hours of research and typing up the paper. Other people, poor souls without these resources (or logos for that matter), spent nearly 6+ hours manually looking through a lexicon and searching endlessly through various commentaries, just hoping that the resource actually dealt with their passage.

Even if you are not doing any Original Language studies at your University, being able to search against a Greek word, but being able to read it in English, is going to prove very useful in justifying your connection between two passages.

Also, professors will love you if you quote the church fathers in relation to the studies you have in various passages. And it never hurts to get some brownie points with professors. Wink

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/437700#Comment_437700

Summary of my studies and how they coincide with L6

Gonzalez, I have started on my own to learn NT Gk. First I will be studying classical Gk (in the Fall 2013). Then I will study Theology, for example the course Jesus and the Gospels in the Protestant college, the OT course in the Catholic college, the Psychology of religion course in the Protestant college, the Anabaptism course in the Protestant college.
Only after all that I'll study Biblical Gk, in the Protestant college.

So by the time I can do mediocre or worse translations of the Apostolic Fathers, L6 has come out. And by that time I will probably not continue my studies and switch to Science. And my plan was that after that I would try study to become a college engineer - however I'm a bit unsure about that part since by then I may feel that I'm too old to study.

The protestant college is rather small even though it's in the largest city in this country, so I don't have all that much to choose from there. The town where the Catholic college is situated has a better library but that college is small aswell.

Still, anyone who wants to give me advice is welcome!

Daniel Luke Gonzalez

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/436730#Comment_436730

Hello Unix,

I have Original Languages, which must be quite equivalent to Biblical Languages.

I too have Logos4 Original Languages, but not Logos5 Biblical language package as I upgraded to Logos 5 core Databasesets before I learned of the Logos5 Biblical language package. At, this point no one has reported on what the new Logos5 Biblical language package includes and it seems it is only sold over the phone but I like you assume it must be similar, too. Anyway, I think it might be best if you too go with the Core Database sets and just add what you need.

Actually, somebody just posted the list of resources today. Seeing as how I just heard about the Biblical Languages package, I'm going to call Logos on Monday and see what the price is and if this list is accurate. If it is, at a reasonable price, I'm going to go with this one.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/434190#Comment_434190

Hi Unix, Appreciate your difficult decision and that you want to get the most value for your spend based on limited funds.

My advice would be as follows:

1) Forget about L6, it probably won't come before you start your course.

2) You can do a lot of reading on the topics of interest to you as they relate to the subjects that most interest you in terms of your course so make a general list of those topics and evaluate the various options open to your budget in terms of those topics, possibly even ranking those topics in order of what you are most to least passionate about. The ones you are more passionate about you are most likely to read in the lead up to your course.

3) Don't get hung up about english translation you are not to interested in having. Every software product just about on the market will come with a list of english translations. Cross this item of the list of factors to consider

4) Take a second look at the books in the packages that don't fall into point 2 above. You might be a lot less likely or not at all to read them, and they may not be on a reading list for your course but consider are they going to be useful to have in your library for reference material when you are writing papers. I suspect you will need to reference more than the books on your course reading lists if you have to write a paper to show you have looked into the topic widely rather than limiting your research - but you would need to clarify expectations with your course supervisors at the time, but having a broader library than what you think you actually read will come in handy when you least expect it.

5) Only let books you are not interested in become a deciding factor if they form a critical mass - if the books you do want are going to cost the same or less if you purchase them as part of the package compared to purchasing them separately buy the package and consider the other books as part of your broader reference library that you are getting for free.

6) Don't ever expect there to be a perfect Logos package that suits your needs fully - if there ever is, it probably wont' suit my needs, or the rest of the people who have offered advice.. I know some people would just rather Logos say you can have x% off on whatever grab bag of resources you want, but not all publishers would agree to this or to the same amount of discount.

I know I haven't given specific recommendations, but you know your budget, you know what topics you are passionate about and what you are wanting to study. You have the knowledge that is going to allow you to make the decision. I have never regretted a package choice I have made, and always been blessed to find resources I thought might not be of value or interest to me later on became exactly that.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/438299#Comment_438299

Nathan Parker and Andrew Mckenzie, it's not so much about how good L5 is. It may be good. But if I would wait for L6 I would bet newer books. True that my studies will start, but perhaps I'm being over-ambitious wanting to read all kinds of distantly related books to be prepared? But when thinking about this - the ambition is desirable, especially to learn and research for my own benefit and not only the required topics.

Related to all this, is that I know that if I wait many years there will come titles that are much more desirable than any of the books currently offered that are not must-haves for me but merely good-to-haves. It's just difficult to decide because if I don't get the base-package I will spend as much or more on individual titles and collections not having saved any $, just a bit of effort not having to go through the huge library of hundreds of extra books.

Here's a post that sounds a lot like my problematique: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/62212/439948.aspx#439948

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/437827#Comment_437827

Still, anyone who wants to give me advice is welcome!

[Advice]

A Logos 5 in the hand is worth two Logos 6's in the bush.

[/Advice]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440027#Comment_440027

My advice?

If there is nothing in the packages that you must have... consider the theological journal libaries. These to me are must haves.... They are one of my most used resources after the bible.

Professors at my seminary LOVE to see that I'm reading and using as sources theological journals.

https://www.logos.com/product/8114/theological-journal-library-vols-1-10

https://www.logos.com/product/8116/theological-journal-library-vol-15

https://www.logos.com/product/8116/theological-journal-library-vol-14

https://www.logos.com/product/8116/theological-journal-library-vol-13

https://www.logos.com/product/8116/theological-journal-library-vol-12

https://www.logos.com/product/8116/theological-journal-library-vol-11

https://www.logos.com/product/8824/tabletalk

https://www.logos.com/product/27604/themelios-1-37

I have most of the above (though not 12, 14, or 15 nor all of table talk, nor all of themelios), and what I have I love. The ones I lack will be my next major purchases.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440110#Comment_440110

There is for example the The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, rev. ed.

If there is nothing in the packages that you must have... [...]

Right now I began to think that there is something wrong about needing to make the studies so broad. I want to exlude some topics now. Just have to think about what topics but I probably am not going to give up on Greek and all the commentaries. But the commentaries in Silver are worthless (a word I rarely use), I'd only use Lange's Jonah a little and that's it.

This is because I would otherwise spend too many $ and months on the studies.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440276#Comment_440276

Unless I miss my guess here it sounds like you have a different approach than I do to my digital library. I do not read all of every single book. I store them and then later when a specific topic comes up I search across all books and journals to learn what they have to say. I recently wrote a paper on ephesians 2:1-10, searched the scripture reference, and read all of the relevant information. Then I searched key phrases (sons of disobedience for instance) and read all the information. I then looked at the greek (I am no greek scholar, but checking the verbs is always a good idea). Then I noticed two one book commentaries on ephesians. Ordered them, and then began to write my paper (10 pages).

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440298#Comment_440298

Thanks, Baker, then I understand Your suggestion. I do read through books, even technical ones such as ICC. Naturally I wouldn't read through everything in Silver.

One user, strangertoo, gave an advice just now: http://www.christianforums.com/t7702881-3/#post61967616

Unless someone is financing the base-package I'm not going to buy any, except Verbum Basic. It just would feel better if I would be sure that I support only the publishers I want only for the books I want.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440692#Comment_440692

Unless someone is financing the base-package I'm not going to buy any, except Verbum Basic. It just would feel better if I would be sure that I support only the publishers I want only for the books I want.

I am afraid that approach is like refusing to buy a car with an ashtray because you are not a smoker. You always save money buying in bulk.I have found some titles I thought had no value turn out to be interesting. Not everyone will use a large library. Please evaluate what you will need. Andrew McKenzie's advice here is very good.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/440720#Comment_440720

The leader of my seminary recommends the following:

http://www.danielakin.com/?p=2201

We are not catholic, however, you might still find some things of worth on the list.

A wise man studies beyond his own point of view. Without knowing my point of view, how then will you deal with people like me who show up at your church? I have studied (and not nearly as deeply as I'd like to) the Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, orthodox and coptic churches, islam, jehovas witness, mormonism, and many others... Apologies for including some on that list with others on that list - no offense is intended. I'm not equating those that are christian with those that are not, just forming a short list of people who are from a different tradition, that I have studied. Even then I come across new ones every now and then... Last week I encountered a Kopimist.It was, well, lets call it interesting. How a "church" of data pirates can find constitutional protection as a "church" is well beyond me - but I digress. Knowing where your people come from, helps you to know where they are, and helps make you a better pastor/priest/father/etc.

Also - call me Ken . Just don't call me late for supper.