St, Patrick-who?
An Apostle: any of the original 12 disciples called by Jesus to preach the gospel: Simon Peter, the brothers James and John, Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alpheus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot, Judas Iscariot.
Misprint by Logos:
http://www.logos.com/product/17959/st-patrick-apostle-of-Ireland
Assume BIRTH DATE: c. 385
Just the definition reveals a major typo.
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Comments
An Apostle: any of the original 12 disciples called by Jesus to preach the gospel: Simon Peter, the brothers James and John, Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alpheus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot, Judas Iscariot.
Misprint by Logos:
http://www.logos.com/product/17959/st-patrick-apostle-of-Ireland
Assume BIRTH DATE: c. 385
Just the definition reveals a major typo.
Whoa!! Whoooaa...
Major disagreement here. Yes, I realize that it is extremely common to insist that "apostle" is a title that can only be rightly applied to the men you named above, but that assertion not only disagrees with Scripture's own usage, it disagrees with common sense. The word means "sent one" (I'm sure we all know that), and it is used in many extra-biblical contexts. Limiting the use of the word to just the ones Yeishuu`a called by name is to onerously misapply the word in an overly-restrictive way.
So, how does one refer to the twelve men who were called by name to be disciples of Yeishuu`a?
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Type "the twelve" into your search box and hit enter...see what you get.
That's what they were called.
The Twelve.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
An Apostle: any of the original 12 disciples called by Jesus to preach the gospel: Simon Peter, the brothers James and John, Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alpheus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot, Judas Iscariot.
Whoa!! Whoooaa...
Major disagreement here. Yes, I realize that it is extremely common to insist that "apostle" is a title that can only be rightly applied to the men you named above, but that assertion not only disagrees with Scripture's own usage, it disagrees with common sense. The word means "sent one" (I'm sure we all know that), and it is used in many extra-biblical contexts. Limiting the use of the word to just the ones Yeishuu`a called by name is to onerously misapply the word in an overly-restrictive way.
So, how does one refer to the twelve men who were called by name to be disciples of Yeishuu`a?
apostle: Mt 10:2; Mk 6:30; Lk 6:13; 9:10; 11:49; 17:5; 22:14; 24:10; Acts 1:2, 26; 2:37, 42, 43; 4:33, 35, 36, 37; 5:2, 12, 18, 29, 40; 6:6; 8:1, 14, 18; 9:27; 11:1; 14:4, 14; 15:2, 4, 6, 22, 23; 16:4; Rom 1:1; 11:13; 16:7; 1 Co 1:1; 4:9; 9:1, 2, 5; 12:28, 29; 15:7, 9 (2); 2 Co 1:1; 11:5, 13; 12:11, 12; Gal 1:1, 17, 19; Eph 1:1; 2:20; 3:5; 4:11; Col 1:1; 1 Th 2:7; 1 Ti 1:1; 2:7; 2 Ti 1:1, 11; Tt 1:1; Heb 3:1; 1 Pe 1:1; 2 Pe 1:1; 3:2; Jude 17; Rev 2:2; 18:20; 21:14
Now prove the Scriptures are wrong, by your highlighted statement above in your quote...?
I can wait....
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apostle: Mt 10:2; Mk 6:30; Lk 6:13; 9:10; 11:49; 17:5; 22:14; 24:10; Acts 1:2, 26; 2:37, 42, 43; 4:33, 35, 36, 37; 5:2, 12, 18, 29, 40; 6:6; 8:1, 14, 18; 9:27; 11:1; 14:4, 14; 15:2, 4, 6, 22, 23; 16:4; Rom 1:1; 11:13; 16:7; 1 Co 1:1; 4:9; 9:1, 2, 5; 12:28, 29; 15:7, 9 (2); 2 Co 1:1; 11:5, 13; 12:11, 12; Gal 1:1, 17, 19; Eph 1:1; 2:20; 3:5; 4:11; Col 1:1; 1 Th 2:7; 1 Ti 1:1; 2:7; 2 Ti 1:1, 11; Tt 1:1; Heb 3:1; 1 Pe 1:1; 2 Pe 1:1; 3:2; Jude 17; Rev 2:2; 18:20; 21:14
Now prove the Scriptures are wrong, by your highlighted statement above in your quote...?
You missed two: Phil 2:25 and 2Cor 8:23. In the first the apostle is Epaphroditus who was an apostle (sent with a message) of the church in Phillipi to Paul. You might have missed that one, since it's not usually translated apostle. In the second (2Cor 8:23) the apostles are some anonymous "brothers." You'd need to look at the surrounding context of 2Cor 8, but you'll see that these are not the 12, but as is usually the case, just church members sent on a mission.
In one case (Heb.3:1) Jesus is also called an apostle (i.e., He was sent by God with a message and a mission).
The term then seems to have both a restrictive and a broad sense. The restrictive sense points to the 12 (plus Paul). The broad sense includes Epaphroditus and the anonymous brothers mentioned above. Once we make room for the possibility of a broader sense, then some of the passages you cite above can be seen as possibly referring to this broader group.
EDIT: fixed a type in a scripture reference
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
apostle: Mt 10:2; Mk 6:30; Lk 6:13; 9:10; 11:49; 17:5; 22:14; 24:10; Acts 1:2, 26; 2:37, 42, 43; 4:33, 35, 36, 37; 5:2, 12, 18, 29, 40; 6:6; 8:1, 14, 18; 9:27; 11:1; 14:4, 14; 15:2, 4, 6, 22, 23; 16:4; Rom 1:1; 11:13; 16:7; 1 Co 1:1; 4:9; 9:1, 2, 5; 12:28, 29; 15:7, 9 (2); 2 Co 1:1; 11:5, 13; 12:11, 12; Gal 1:1, 17, 19; Eph 1:1; 2:20; 3:5; 4:11; Col 1:1; 1 Th 2:7; 1 Ti 1:1; 2:7; 2 Ti 1:1, 11; Tt 1:1; Heb 3:1; 1 Pe 1:1; 2 Pe 1:1; 3:2; Jude 17; Rev 2:2; 18:20; 21:14
Now prove the Scriptures are wrong, by your highlighted statement above in your quote...?
You missed two: Phil 2:25 and 2Cor 8:23. In the first the apostle is Epaphroditus who was an apostle (sent with a message) of the church in Phillipi to Paul. You might have missed that one, since it's not usually translated apostle. In the second (2Cor 8:23) the apostles are some anonymous "brothers." You'd need to look at the surrounding context of 2Cor 8, but you'll see that these are not the 12, but as is usually the case, just church members sent on a mission.
In one case (Heb.3:1) Jesus is also called an apostle (i.e., He was sent by God with a message and a mission).
The term then seems to have both a restrictive and a broad sense. The restrictive sense points to the 12 (plus Paul). The broad sense includes Epaphroditus and the anonymous brothers mentioned above. Once we make room for the possibility of a broader sense, then some of the passages you cite above can be seen as possibly referring to this broader group.
EDIT: fixed a type in a scripture reference
Thanks Richard[seems to be a typo in the resource itself, I will report it, missed that one.], now we seem to be getting somewhere.
Epaphroditus, is only mention in Phil, but never confirmed as an Apostle by true Biblical definition. But I do believe that Paul was making a very clear and distinctive point by the variant and by not using the Apostleship that was given to him. He apparently saw/understood the difference.
Apparently we do not....
R4m
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and more typos, Paul, Matthias, Andronicus, Junias, and of course Jesus Himself, all who are named as apostles in the Scriptures.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
and more typos, Paul, Matthias, Andronicus, Junias, and of course Jesus Himself, all who are named as apostles in the Scriptures.
Paul - a definite Apostle
Matthias - replaced Judas
Andronicus - never stated as an Apostle rather known by the Apostles[mentioned only once]
Junias(Junia) - same verse same as above
so what was the point you were attempting to make?
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so what was the point you were attempting to make?
Just that you're dead wrong, and if you must try to generate controversy, at least pick a subject where the Scriptures don't so obviously contradict you.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
so what was the point you were attempting to make?Just that you're dead wrong, and if you must try to generate controversy, at least pick a subject where the Scriptures don't so obviously contradict you.
But they haven't yet and there are only 4 verses that deal directly with "Apostleship" - and they seem pretty clear as to the position.
Thanks for the comment.
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... and of course there was Barnabas and Epaphroditus.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
An Apostle: any of the original 12 disciples called by Jesus to preach the gospel: Simon Peter, the brothers James and John, Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alpheus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot, Judas Iscariot.
You either should throw the dictionary that gave you this definition away or throw your New Testament away, because the New Testament names others as also being apostles.
For example, Acts 14:14 names Barnabas, and there are others. So the word apostle may be rightly applied to others besides the original 12 disciples.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
Or Misdefinition by Room4More
Merriam-Webster:
(a
(b
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Interesting, in your desire to prove me wrong you didn't read your own definition.....So how does this definition fit Patrick, he was around then?
[thanks for your supportive definition]
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LOL...so, how are the cherries this year? Sweet, are they? [;)]
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
I believe you have a typo in the part emphasized. I've corrected it for you and now will bow out of this OT thread.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Ok same question: who made them Apostle's based on the Biblical definition? adding; who are they?
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apostle (Gk., one who is sent) 1. One of the 12 disciples chosen by Christ: Peter, James, John, Andrew, Thomas, James the Less, Jude, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon, and Judas (replaced by Matthias). Paul claimed the title for himself on the basis of a direct commission from the risen Christ (Rom. 1:1; Gal. 1:1) and used it also of James, the Lord’s brother (Gal. 1:19).
2. The highest of the five ecclesiastical offices or titles in the New Testament, the other four being prophet, teacher, evangelist, and pastor.
3. The leader of a first Christian mission to a country, such as: Patrick, the apostle of Ireland; Cyril and Methodius, the apostles of the Slavs; Frumentius, apostle of Abyssinians; Felix Naif, apostle of the Alps; Juan de Avila, apostle of Andalusia; Hubert, apostle of Ardennes; Gregory the Illuminator, apostle of Armenia; Jose de Anchieta, apostle of Brazil; Augustine, apostle of England; Denis, apostle of France; Willibrord, apostle of Frisians; Martin of Tours, apostle of Gaul; Paul, apostle to the Gentiles; Boniface, apostle of Germany; Columba, apostle of Scotland; King Stephen, apostle of Hungary; John Eliot, apostle to the Native Americans; Francis Xavier, apostle to the Indies; Ansgar, apostle to the North; Alonso de Barcena, apostle of Peru; Ninian, apostle to the Picts; James the Great, apostle of Spain; and David, apostle of Wales.
Kurian, G. T. (2001). Nelson’s new Christian dictionary: The authoritative resource on the Christian world. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
Why not run a topic guide on the word "apostle" and see what it yields?
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
And for our next topic of argument, "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
That's a good idea, why not post your sorted results and make an educated comment........this way we can read of who are learning and who are, well lets just say present and at the back of the room snickering like.......
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