Moody titles will be going away

tom said:

I am saying that most of the Moody books were not commentaries, and they could be Vyrso books.

If Logos and Moody couldn't reach a contract agreement on selling them as Logos books, that means that Logos is not willing to accept an even lower profit margin on those books than they were getting under the old contract, which means they wouldn't be willing to sell them as Vyrso books where they get just a few pennies per book.

arrggh ... I wished Logos would have sent out an email to it's customers that this was going to happen rather than having to read bout this in a forum after trying to place an order for books in my wish list that no longer exist.   Frustrating

Jack Caviness said:

Jacob Hantla said:

check MacArthur on James 5 healing

Working in James 2 now, will be sure to check MacArthur when I get there. Thanks for the tip.

Peace, Brother Jack                       Illustrious Young'un!      *smile*            Guess you are not a "Young'un," any longer, but rather an Elder of Jesus' Church ......              But, still younger than me, so you have to listen to your elders....               *smile*

              After reading this thread, I became impatient and took an advance "peep" at MacArthur on James ......      Old Age and patience do not always go together, eh???                     

     If you want to do an extremely interesting "study," and you happen to have Lenski's commentary, you might want to open up his study of James 5.  I found it fascinating personally .........      which, of course, is no guarantee that you will .....

Nord Zootman said:

Milford Charles Murray said:

After reading this thread, I became impatient and took an advance "peep" at MacArthur on James ......      Old Age and patience do not always go together, eh???                     

     If you want to do an extremely interesting "study," and you happen to have Lenski's commentary, you might want to open up his study of James 5.  I found it fascinating personally .........      which, of course, is no guarantee that you will .....

Thanks for the heads-up Milford. I am beginning a series on James and Lenski is boxed up along with most of my physical library due to a remodeling project at church. You have raised by curiosity and I will dig that volume out for my study.

Nord!          *smile*                If you have any difficulties in finding your Lenski's     ,  (or they are under a pile of heavy boxes!)  ....      please drop a note and I'll attach a few paragraphs to a post ......

Peace, Jack!                       You are Seven Feet Tall to me!        *smile*         A real forgiven sinner washed in the Blood of the Lamb who seeks to know and follow every Word from the Shepherd!              Well-Done, Brother!                      *smile*                If ever you make a PB, be sure to share the .docx file with a few of your friends!             You could make a "commentary" PB even!

Jack Caviness said:

Milford Charles Murray said:

If ever you make a PB, be sure to share the .docx file with a few of your friends!             You could make a "commentary" PB even!

If we both live long enough for me to finish, I will share with anyone who is interested. Remember, we are both older than George 

George Somsel said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9gIqmMm63M&playnext=1&list=PL3899D5A0A18F4869&feature=results_main

Truly amazing. Appropriate too.

thanks for the reassurance that existing titles aren't going away we still get to have what we paid for.

I cannot express my concern and disappointment when two large, presumably Christian organizations, cannot come to a financial agreement, and all of us eager, anxious, and growing believers are caught in the cross-fire.  I could expect this from a Zondervan, but not from a Moody and/or Logos.  With all that is going on in the world today, in our own country as far as politics and christian "repression", are we (you) setting the right example and making it even more difficult for believers to grow in our faith and glorify God in our homes, communities, country, and culture?  What a shame that we, the PAYING  customers (and this resource is NOT cheap), are the ones who ultimately pay the price!

Remember that even the Apostle Paul and his mentor Barnabas couldn't agree and parted ways.

Edwin Bowden said:

Remember that even the Apostle Paul and his mentor Barnabas couldn't agree and parted ways.

One of the most popular ways a church growth occurs after a church splits.

The word from a reliable source is that Moody followed the advice of a third party advisor, who recommended that Moody ask Logos for financial terms at a level that Logos found to be economically unsustainable.

So it looks like this is just another case of publishers, being under increased financial stress due to rapid changes in the digital world, trying to relieve some of that stress by pushing back on their counter-parties. Meanwhile, it costs Logos an awful lot to produce and support these resources, such that at a certain price point it no longer makes good economic sense for them to do so.

Let's hope and pray that the smart and dedicated people at both Moody and Logos can eventually work out a solution that is a win-win for them, while still benefiting authors and end-users. With God, all things are possible. (Mt 19:26)

However, looking at it from a different perspective, Logos has already spent substantial $$$ digitizing and indexing Moody resources for which they will now receive no revenue.  The last time I checked, 100% of zero is zero.

I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit their negotiations in the near future.

Tony Thomas said:

However, looking at it from a different perspective, Logos has already spent substantial $$$ digitizing and indexing Moody resources for which they will now receive no revenue.  The last time I checked, 100% of zero is zero.

That's true, Tony. However, remember that those are sunk costs. And if a business like Logos starts allowing itself to cave on the demands of publishers with deals that don't make economic sense for Logos, it can start a really, really bad trend. Then other publishers will probably want similar terms which are likewise unfavorable to Logos. Before you know it, Logos could find itself losing money and have to do something drastic to reverse the trend - most likely something that will anger end-users, such as raising the prices on Logos resources, discontinuing sales, charging for software, limiting support, lowering product quality, etc.

If the report I got of what happened really is accurate, then frankly, I'm glad that Logos made this very difficult decision. It may hurt somewhat for those who really like the products by Moody. However, in the long-run, I think that decision helps keep Logos financially strong and able to continue providing top-of-the-line software and support.

Tony Thomas said:

I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit their negotiations in the near future.

Amen! And if Moody is struggling financially, then I hope that God leads them to some clever and creative new ways to fix that.

Tony Thomas said:

I don't think that Moody will be the last cow out of the barn given the current economic climate.

Maybe not. I just hope we get another "heads-up" if it happens again so I can grab for resources. I'm thankful I got that chance on the Moody titles.

Tony Thomas said:

As a result, I think Logos needs to continue to concentrate on financing and producing its own scholarly works as well as adding value to public domain works by digitizing them adding features to them to increase perceived added value.  

For me that would mean virtually no purchases from Logos, the majority of older works i have purchased nearly never get used, and while i was in pre pub for "Evangelical Exegetical Commentary" after seeing the volume on Ezra I decided the series, assuming it was a good representation was definitely not something I wished to have. I had been expecting something closer to an updated WBC, but found it was far more conservative than I was comfortable with. Logos has made some guides that are rather pricey and as I understand it of little value if you do not own large numbers of resources it will point you too. I am very thankful for the hard work they have done on the Lexham Bible. It seems rather odd that so far at least Logos is the only Bible software Moody's has pulled out of–Olivetree, Accordance, & Wordsearch all sell numerous moodys tittles and are adding more all the time. I am not saying that Logos is at fault just that it is sad that the biggest Bible software publisher was not able to come to an agreeable arrangement with Moody, but in someways it is nice leaving room for people to explore other software to supplement Logos.

-Dan

We serve One who owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and I cannot believe that He wants us, as believers, or christian organizations, to bicker, gripe, and fight over money, especially when the purpose of Logos and Moody is to edify, educate, and grow believers!  They both need to be careful not to place the profit margin ahead of the ministry, or they will be treated much like the money-changers in the Temple when Jesus came in and made a clear example of their true motives, disrespect, and disobedience! 

Steven E. Grable said:

We serve One who owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and I cannot believe that He wants us, as believers, or christian organizations, to bicker, gripe, and fight over money, especially when the purpose of Logos and Moody is to edify, educate, and grow believers!  They both need to be careful not to place the profit margin ahead of the ministry, or they will be treated much like the money-changers in the Temple when Jesus came in and made a clear example of their true motives, disrespect, and disobedience! 

I think everyone is just trying their best to be good stewards of what they have to work with during these challenging times. If they don't make some difficult decisions, they risk letting down the many constituencies they serve - employees, customers, churches, universities, etc. No doubt there are smart people of good-will on both sides searching for ways to make things work. We just need to hope and pray that they come up with some good win-win solutions.