Moody titles will be going away

I am saying that most of the Moody books were not commentaries, and they could be Vyrso books.

If Logos and Moody couldn't reach a contract agreement on selling them as Logos books, that means that Logos is not willing to accept an even lower profit margin on those books than they were getting under the old contract, which means they wouldn't be willing to sell them as Vyrso books where they get just a few pennies per book.

If Logos and Moody couldn't reach a contract agreement on selling them as Logos books, that means that Logos is not willing to accept an even lower profit margin on those books than they were getting under the old contract, which means they wouldn't be willing to sell them as Vyrso books where they get just a few pennies per book.

But Logos is selling 689 Moody books on the Vyrso site now.

If Logos and Moody couldn't reach a contract agreement on selling them as Logos books, that means that Logos is not willing to accept an even lower profit margin on those books than they were getting under the old contract, which means they wouldn't be willing to sell them as Vyrso books where they get just a few pennies per book.

But Logos is selling 689 Moody books on the Vyrso site now.

But were not those books originally sold as Vyrso books and thus did not have as great a financial investment from Logos?

But were not those books originally sold as Vyrso books and thus did not have as great a financial investment from Logos?

Yes, and I will say that a good number of Moody books did not have a "great financial investment" because they do not have a lot of tagging, and those Moody books are the ones that will work as Vyrso books.

 MacArthur's commentaries are all pastoral, with some decent sermon material, but little for research purposes. Lutzer is much the same.

For some unique perspectives not represented well among other commentaries, check MacArthur on James 5 healing and for Jesus' statements about the poor widow giving her last coin. 

For some unique perspectives not represented well among other commentaries, check MacArthur

Unfortunately, I cant. [:P]

For some unique perspectives not represented well among other commentaries, check MacArthur

Unfortunately, I cant. 

That made me laugh. I can't either. [:D]

check MacArthur on James 5 healing

Working in James 2 now, will be sure to check MacArthur when I get there. Thanks for the tip.

arrggh ... I wished Logos would have sent out an email to it's customers that this was going to happen rather than having to read bout this in a forum after trying to place an order for books in my wish list that no longer exist.   Frustrating

arrggh ... I wished Logos would have sent out an email to it's customers that this was going to happen rather than having to read bout this in a forum after trying to place an order for books in my wish list that no longer exist.   Frustrating

Suggest calling Logos Customer Service.

btw: Logos has purged the website of all copyrighted Moody titles except the AM Bible Courseware.

Irony: AM Bible Courseware includes references to other titles by Moody: e.g. The Moody Handbook of Theology and A General Introduction to the Bible.

Thankful for a number of Moody resources, which were included in older Logos base packages.  Dreaming of a Moody companion bundle for AM Bible Courseware.

Keep Smiling [:)]

check MacArthur on James 5 healing

Working in James 2 now, will be sure to check MacArthur when I get there. Thanks for the tip.

Peace, Brother Jack                       Illustrious Young'un!      *smile*            Guess you are not a "Young'un," any longer, but rather an Elder of Jesus' Church ......              But, still younger than me, so you have to listen to your elders....               *smile*

              After reading this thread, I became impatient and took an advance "peep" at MacArthur on James ......      Old Age and patience do not always go together, eh???                     

     If you want to do an extremely interesting "study," and you happen to have Lenski's commentary, you might want to open up his study of James 5.  I found it fascinating personally .........      which, of course, is no guarantee that you will .....

After reading this thread, I became impatient and took an advance "peep" at MacArthur on James ......      Old Age and patience do not always go together, eh???                     

     If you want to do an extremely interesting "study," and you happen to have Lenski's commentary, you might want to open up his study of James 5.  I found it fascinating personally .........      which, of course, is no guarantee that you will .....

Thanks for the heads-up Milford. I am beginning a series on James and Lenski is boxed up along with most of my physical library due to a remodeling project at church. You have raised by curiosity and I will dig that volume out for my study.

After reading this thread, I became impatient and took an advance "peep" at MacArthur on James ......      Old Age and patience do not always go together, eh???                     

     If you want to do an extremely interesting "study," and you happen to have Lenski's commentary, you might want to open up his study of James 5.  I found it fascinating personally .........      which, of course, is no guarantee that you will .....

Thanks for the heads-up Milford. I am beginning a series on James and Lenski is boxed up along with most of my physical library due to a remodeling project at church. You have raised by curiosity and I will dig that volume out for my study.

Nord!          *smile*                If you have any difficulties in finding your Lenski's     ,  (or they are under a pile of heavy boxes!)  ....      please drop a note and I'll attach a few paragraphs to a post ......

Milford - thanks for the offer. I had to move a bunch of boxes, but I found it.

. I had to move a bunch of boxes, but I found it.

Otherwise, Logos might help: http://www.logos.com/product/8178/the-interpretation-of-the-epistle-to-the-hebrews-and-of-the-epistle-of-james 

Regarding James, be sure not to overlook http://www.logos.com/product/25001/james-evangelical-exegetical-commentary 

   If you want to do an extremely interesting "study," and you happen to have Lenski's commentary, you might want to open up his study of James 5.  I found it fascinating personally .........      which, of course, is no guarantee that you will .....

As I have both Lenski and MacArthur, I will be sure to check both. BTW: I already make it a normal practice to check Lenski on each passage.

Regarding James, be sure not to overlook http://www.logos.com/product/25001/james-evangelical-exegetical-commentary

Also on my "must consult" list [8-|]

After my own analysis I normally consult Ross, Moo, Davids, Holloway, Richardson, Varner, Lenski, Barton, Stulac, & Adamson. Then, look at a custom PG for other resources with interesting comments. My study notes have turned into a commentary, and I cannot seem to help myself [:D]

Peace, Jack!                       You are Seven Feet Tall to me!        *smile*         A real forgiven sinner washed in the Blood of the Lamb who seeks to know and follow every Word from the Shepherd!              Well-Done, Brother!                      *smile*                If ever you make a PB, be sure to share the .docx file with a few of your friends!             You could make a "commentary" PB even!

Well, I don't use Moody stuff much, but I went through Moody's titles before they disappeared and picked up a few things that I thought I might need at some point. Wouldn't you know it? Some research that I am doing requires a Moody book that Logos used to have.  Any word from Logos if and when a new contact might be sorted? This leaves me to buy it in Kindle format. [:(][N][:'(][:|][:S][:(]

Well, I don't use Moody stuff much, but I went through Moody's titles before they disappeared and picked up a few things that I thought I might need at some point. Wouldn't you know it? Some research that I am doing requires a Moody book that Logos used to have.  Any word from Logos if and when a new contact might be sorted? This leaves me to buy it in Kindle format. 

I feel your pain! [:(]

Does this include titles currently in our packages???? Titles we PAID for?

Does this include titles currently in our packages???? Titles we PAID for?

Well, that's a relief. I know they say that, but with all the constant "updates" to the software, I keep wondering if I'm losing titles.

Why anyway are there so many changes?

Why anyway are there so many changes?

I answered you in the other thread.

If ever you make a PB, be sure to share the .docx file with a few of your friends!             You could make a "commentary" PB even!

If we both live long enough for me to finish, I will share with anyone who is interested. Remember, we are both older than George [:D]

If ever you make a PB, be sure to share the .docx file with a few of your friends!             You could make a "commentary" PB even!

If we both live long enough for me to finish, I will share with anyone who is interested. Remember, we are both older than George 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9gIqmMm63M&playnext=1&list=PL3899D5A0A18F4869&feature=results_main

If ever you make a PB, be sure to share the .docx file with a few of your friends!             You could make a "commentary" PB even!

If we both live long enough for me to finish, I will share with anyone who is interested. Remember, we are both older than George 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9gIqmMm63M&playnext=1&list=PL3899D5A0A18F4869&feature=results_main

Peace, George!               I surely must compliment you!                     Great!                      I don't know where you find these "items."     Besides your Greek and Hebrew abilities, you have an "uncanny" knack at finding just the very right YouTube item from the so-called Good Old Days where there was just Jack and myself, your being way too young to be part of those Classic Good Old Days!                *smile*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9gIqmMm63M&playnext=1&list=PL3899D5A0A18F4869&feature=results_main

Truly amazing. Appropriate too.

Thank you.

thanks for the reassurance that existing titles aren't going away we still get to have what we paid for.

Good news indeed. [:)]

Welcome to the forums, by the way!

I cannot express my concern and disappointment when two large, presumably Christian organizations, cannot come to a financial agreement, and all of us eager, anxious, and growing believers are caught in the cross-fire.  I could expect this from a Zondervan, but not from a Moody and/or Logos.  With all that is going on in the world today, in our own country as far as politics and christian "repression", are we (you) setting the right example and making it even more difficult for believers to grow in our faith and glorify God in our homes, communities, country, and culture?  What a shame that we, the PAYING  customers (and this resource is NOT cheap), are the ones who ultimately pay the price!

Welcome to the forums Steven. I sense that you felt more compelled to make a passionate statement rather than to share in our community but I hope that this will not be your last post. Please come back and visit and participate often.

Over the years I have learned that I need to be so careful at coming to conclusions that I don't really fully understand. Although many of us (including me) were very disappointed at the loss of Moody as a Logos partner I must remind myself that I don't know the full story. I don't understand why they could not work something out and hope that something will be worked out in the future. In the meantime I have chosen to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Remember that even the Apostle Paul and his mentor Barnabas couldn't agree and parted ways.

Remember that even the Apostle Paul and his mentor Barnabas couldn't agree and parted ways.

God is able to work in spite of our disagreements.

Remember that even the Apostle Paul and his mentor Barnabas couldn't agree and parted ways.

One of the most popular ways a church growth occurs after a church splits.

One of the most popular ways a church growth occurs after a church splits.

That is why there are so many of us Baptists [:D], but we always split over important things: carpet color, the pastor's haircut, etc [:D]

The word from a reliable source is that Moody followed the advice of a third party advisor, who recommended that Moody ask Logos for financial terms at a level that Logos found to be economically unsustainable.

So it looks like this is just another case of publishers, being under increased financial stress due to rapid changes in the digital world, trying to relieve some of that stress by pushing back on their counter-parties. Meanwhile, it costs Logos an awful lot to produce and support these resources, such that at a certain price point it no longer makes good economic sense for them to do so.

Let's hope and pray that the smart and dedicated people at both Moody and Logos can eventually work out a solution that is a win-win for them, while still benefiting authors and end-users. With God, all things are possible. (Mt 19:26)

Let's hope and pray that the smart and dedicated people at both Moody and Logos can eventually work out a solution that is a win-win for them, while still benefiting authors and end-users.

[Y]

However, looking at it from a different perspective, Logos has already spent substantial $$$ digitizing and indexing Moody resources for which they will now receive no revenue.  The last time I checked, 100% of zero is zero.

I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit their negotiations in the near future.

We are not privy to the true issues behind Moody leaving Logos. But sometimes there are irreconcilable differences. What IF:

• Moody demanded Logos quit selling Catholic resources to continue carrying theirs?
• Moody wanted to give their resources away for free while obligating Logos to perpetually support them?
• Moody wanted to quadruple the prices of their resources?

We do not know why they parted ways. Hopefully it is something that can be resolved. If not, we will just have to live with it.

However, looking at it from a different perspective, Logos has already spent substantial $$$ digitizing and indexing Moody resources for which they will now receive no revenue.  The last time I checked, 100% of zero is zero.

That's true, Tony. However, remember that those are sunk costs. And if a business like Logos starts allowing itself to cave on the demands of publishers with deals that don't make economic sense for Logos, it can start a really, really bad trend. Then other publishers will probably want similar terms which are likewise unfavorable to Logos. Before you know it, Logos could find itself losing money and have to do something drastic to reverse the trend - most likely something that will anger end-users, such as raising the prices on Logos resources, discontinuing sales, charging for software, limiting support, lowering product quality, etc.

If the report I got of what happened really is accurate, then frankly, I'm glad that Logos made this very difficult decision. It may hurt somewhat for those who really like the products by Moody. However, in the long-run, I think that decision helps keep Logos financially strong and able to continue providing top-of-the-line software and support.

I pray that Logos and Moody will revisit their negotiations in the near future.

Amen! And if Moody is struggling financially, then I hope that God leads them to some clever and creative new ways to fix that.

 

    

Yes, those are really sunk costs, now!  They won't get another penny from Moody resources to pay back their investment!

I think what we are seeing is a quickly changing playing field in the publishing world.  Five or ten years ago, what Logos was doing provided a valuable service to publishers by digitizing, tagging and distributing their works (especially back catalog and out of print books).

Times have changed.

Now, publishers have numerous electronic book distributors to choose from,  all producing nice income streams for the publishers and their authors.

Bottom line: they can demand more money for their IP.

Sure, Logos resources are great with all of the tagging that goes into them.  On the other hand, they get a nice premium over other electronic book distributors and can even charge nice sums of money for public domain works that are available for very little $$$ (or even free) elsewhere.  

I don't think that Moody will be the last cow out of the barn given the current economic climate.

As a result, I think Logos needs to continue to concentrate on financing and producing its own scholarly works as well as adding value to public domain works by digitizing them adding features to them to increase perceived added value.  

I don't think that Moody will be the last cow out of the barn given the current economic climate.

Maybe not. I just hope we get another "heads-up" if it happens again so I can grab for resources. I'm thankful I got that chance on the Moody titles.

The real bottom line is whether Moody (or anyone else) keep in mind that they remember who they serve. If it's not about the defense and proclamation of the gospel, it always comes in a dismal second place.

As a result, I think Logos needs to continue to concentrate on financing and producing its own scholarly works as well as adding value to public domain works by digitizing them adding features to them to increase perceived added value.  

For me that would mean virtually no purchases from Logos, the majority of older works i have purchased nearly never get used, and while i was in pre pub for "Evangelical Exegetical Commentary" after seeing the volume on Ezra I decided the series, assuming it was a good representation was definitely not something I wished to have. I had been expecting something closer to an updated WBC, but found it was far more conservative than I was comfortable with. Logos has made some guides that are rather pricey and as I understand it of little value if you do not own large numbers of resources it will point you too. I am very thankful for the hard work they have done on the Lexham Bible. It seems rather odd that so far at least Logos is the only Bible software Moody's has pulled out of–Olivetree, Accordance, & Wordsearch all sell numerous moodys tittles and are adding more all the time. I am not saying that Logos is at fault just that it is sad that the biggest Bible software publisher was not able to come to an agreeable arrangement with Moody, but in someways it is nice leaving room for people to explore other software to supplement Logos.

-Dan

It seems rather odd that so far at least Logos is the only Bible software Moody's has pulled out of

There could be a very simple explanation for that: multi-year contracts. If Logos had a contract that happened to end this spring, and others have contracts that happen to end in coming years, it would give this effect.

Also, because of Logos' prepub system everything they sell is already paid for, so if a publisher makes outrageous demands they can afford to say "Thanks, but no thanks. Welcome back when you're prepared to be reasonable." Other companies may not even have covered their production costs yet, and may therefore feel forced to accept a bad contract in order to recuperate at least some of what they've spent.

We serve One who owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and I cannot believe that He wants us, as believers, or christian organizations, to bicker, gripe, and fight over money, especially when the purpose of Logos and Moody is to edify, educate, and grow believers!  They both need to be careful not to place the profit margin ahead of the ministry, or they will be treated much like the money-changers in the Temple when Jesus came in and made a clear example of their true motives, disrespect, and disobedience! 

and I cannot believe that He wants us, as believers, or christian organizations, to bicker, gripe, and fight over money,

We do not know the reason why Moody titles were pulled. It is possible it had nothing to do with money on Logos' or Moody's part.

We serve One who owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and I cannot believe that He wants us, as believers, or christian organizations, to bicker, gripe, and fight over money, especially when the purpose of Logos and Moody is to edify, educate, and grow believers!  They both need to be careful not to place the profit margin ahead of the ministry, or they will be treated much like the money-changers in the Temple when Jesus came in and made a clear example of their true motives, disrespect, and disobedience! 

I think everyone is just trying their best to be good stewards of what they have to work with during these challenging times. If they don't make some difficult decisions, they risk letting down the many constituencies they serve - employees, customers, churches, universities, etc. No doubt there are smart people of good-will on both sides searching for ways to make things work. We just need to hope and pray that they come up with some good win-win solutions.

An email to your loyal customers would have been appreciated.