HELP! my memory cache is full
No - I don't mean my computer's memory, I mean my memory - the one that uses my brain for storage. With the resources that appear in the predefined "collections" used in the Guides - definitions, topics, etc.- constantly changing as resources are retagged or bugs fixed, I am at a total loss as to how to make sure I've checked all my related resources without doing a bunch of work twice. PLEASE make the implied collections visible so that I can subtract them out of personal collections and determine what I really need to check.
P.S. It would also help me in knowing how to use the standard guide sections more effectively.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[Y]:
MJ. Smith said:PLEASE make the implied collections visible so that I can subtract them out of personal collections and determine what I really need to check.
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MJ. Smith said:
No - I don't mean my computer's memory, I mean my memory - the one that uses my brain for storage. With the resources that appear in the predefined "collections" used in the Guides - definitions, topics, etc.- constantly changing as resources are retagged or bugs fixed, I am at a total loss as to how to make sure I've checked all my related resources without doing a bunch of work twice. PLEASE make the implied collections visible so that I can subtract them out of personal collections and determine what I really need to check.
Once they've fixed the bugs that are preventing some resources showing in the Guides, it should be straight forward to create your own collections that mirror the "implied" collections. We're promised the bugs will be fixed in the next beta.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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MJ. Smith said:
No - I don't mean my computer's memory, I mean my memory - the one that uses my brain for storage. With the resources that appear in the predefined "collections" used in the Guides - definitions, topics, etc.- constantly changing as resources are retagged or bugs fixed, I am at a total loss as to how to make sure I've checked all my related resources without doing a bunch of work twice. PLEASE make the implied collections visible so that I can subtract them out of personal collections and determine what I really need to check.
P.S. It would also help me in knowing how to use the standard guide sections more effectively.
Sherlock Holmes (A Study in Scarlet): "I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things, so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it."
[;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Mark Barnes said:
it should be straight forward to create your own collections that mirror the "implied" collections.
Is it that easy to check the tagging?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
PLEASE make the implied collections visible
I must have slept through the lecture.
Somebody please 'splain what an implied collection is.
As for your title, I can't remember where I put my cash either.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B said:
I must have slept through the lecture.
Somebody please 'splain what an implied collection is.
MJ's talking about the subsets of resources that are used in various sections of the guides. Not all sections use all your resources, but instead they choose a subset based on the resource type.
MJ. Smith said:Is it that easy to check the tagging?
The conversation is here: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/70556/491290.aspx#491290
This is what we do now know (I think), that the following sections use the following "implied collections":
Passage Guide
- Commentaries section: type:bible-commentary, type:bible-notes
- Cross References section: type:bible-cross-reference-index
- Parallel Passages section: type:bible-harmony
- Literary Typing section: system resource (mackie.lbxlty)
- Biblical People/Places/Things/Events: various system resources
- Media Resources: Unknown
- Music: subset of type:media-collection
- Outlines section: Unknown
- Topics: LCV database
- Illustrations section: Unknown
- Collections: Whole library
Exegetical Guide
- Apparatus section: type:bible-apparatus
- Grammar section: type:grammar
Topic Guide
- Definition section: type:encyclopedia, type:dictionary, type:lexicon
- Related Verses section: probably the LCV database
- Illustrations: Unknown
- Media Resources: Unknown
- Collections: Whole library, but in practice only resources with headwords
Sermon Starter Guide (Topic)
- Theme section: system database
- Passages section: system database
- Preaching Resources: Unknown (same as illustrations sections above?)
- Thematic Outlines: system database produced from Dictionary of Bible Themes resource
- Collections: Will be whole library in Beta 9 (I think), but in practice only resources with headwords
Sermon Starter Guide (Bible Reference)
- Theme section: system database
- Thematic Outlines: system database produced from Dictionary of Bible Themes resource
- Collections: Whole library in Beta 9
- Commentaries: type:bible-commentary, type:bible-notes
- Outlines: Unknown
- Parallel Passages section: type:bible-harmony
- Topics: LCV database
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks - this generally matches my understanding. The one difference that I saw glancing through is that I believe that the cross-references also includes entries from the study Bibles. Initially, however, items like the Topic Guide definition section did not include all definitions from the eligible sources - they were noticeably adding tagging which added definitions. This was a typical situation that I needed addressed.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
he one difference that I saw glancing through is that I believe that the cross-references also includes entries from the study Bibles
I was referring to the upper part of that section. The lower part uses data generated from Bibles (specifically, I think, the CEV, NASB, NIV2011, HCSB, NKJV and ESV).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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which is why I want implied collection made explicit ... 'cause I don't know which Bibles are included.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
which is why I want implied collection made explicit ... 'cause I don't know which Bibles are included.
I don't think that data is coming from our Bibles. I think Logos generate themselves, and use it to create a centralized database that is then distributed to all of us. There's an easy way of checking. Are your cross references the same as my cross references? Let's check a couple:
- Genesis 4:8
Mt 23:35; Lk 11:51; Heb 12:24; 1 Jn 3:12, 13, 14, 15; Jud 11 - 1 Timothy 1:17
1 Ch 29:11; Ps 10:16, 47:7, 90:2; Mk 10:37; Jn 1:18, 5:44; Ro 1:23, 11:36, 16:27; 1 Co 8:6, 9:25; Eph 4:6; Php 4:20; Col 1:15; 1 Ti 2:5, 6:15, 16; Heb 11:27; 2 Pe 1:17; 1 Jn 4:12; Jud 25; Re 4:9, 10, 5:12, 15:3, 22:21
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 - Genesis 4:8
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There was a thread in which a QA person said that the list came from the study bibles ... maybe in beta testing? I can't find it at the moment. As we can create our own cross-reference resources I would think they have to be built on the fly.
- Genesis 4:8 --> Wisdom 10:3
- 1 Timothy 1:17 --> matches yours
I should note that several of my paper study Bibles use the same source for the cross-references i.e. they are tied to either the publisher or the translation rather than the specific printed Bible.
But my suggestion still stands - I'd like Logos to make the implicit collections explicit.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Interesting that you have Wisdom as a cross reference. I even switched to Verbum mode, but didn't get it. So do you know what resource that's come from? A basic search for <Wisdom 10:3> across your entire library using the Cross Reference and Cross References field should find it.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Found a bug - see http://community.logos.com/forums/p/70664/491648.aspx#491648 It appears to be from NABRE
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
It appears to be from NABRE
That would make sense, as us poor Europeans are not allowed to buy NABRE. So it does look like it's coming from the Bibles that we own.
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MJ. Smith said:
which is why I want implied collection made explicit ... 'cause I don't know which Bibles are included.
I've been doing some research on this. It looks like the information is stored in catalog.db, but the necessary fields aren't publicly accessible. I think the field is called "Traits", and for cross references the value it requires is "contains-cross-reference-footnotes". In my Library, there are only four resources that have that 'trait', the ESV, NKJV, HCSB and TNIV.
If Logos made that field publically accessible in the library (even if it was only available as a filter/rule field, and not displayed), then that would allow us to create collections as you have requested.
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Yes, that's what I want - I don't mind creating the collections if the data required to build them is visible.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Yes, that's what I want - I don't mind creating the collections if the data required to build them is visible.
Now we know what you need, why don't you make another suggestion asking specifically for the traits field to be accessible in library/collections?
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Mark Barnes said:MJ. Smith said:
It appears to be from NABRE
That would make sense, as us poor Europeans are not allowed to buy NABRE. So it does look like it's coming from the Bibles that we own.
This poor European owns NABRE, but my PG cross-reference list looks exactly as yours (and *.png display is broken yet again).
Have joy in the Lord!
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Mark Barnes said:
Now we know what you need, why don't you make another suggestion asking specifically for the traits field to be accessible in library/collections?
I can - but my interest is for all (non-obvious) sections not just cross-references.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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NB.Mick said:
This poor European owns NABRE, but my PG cross-reference list looks exactly as yours (and *.png display is broken yet again).
I wonder if you need NABRE and Verbum - NABRE to find this specific cross reference, and Verbum to add apocrypha support to the PG?
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MJ. Smith said:
I can - but my interest is for all (non-obvious) sections not just cross-references.
Sure. But most of the sections are documented somewhere on the forums. And the traits column in the library as hundreds of values, not just cross references. I think many of them are used to choose resources for the guides, including:
- contains-cross-reference-footnotes
- sermon-illustrations
- verbum-system-collection:catechism
- verbum-system-collection:church-documents
- verbum-system-collection:church-fathers
Other traits which might prove useful in collections are:
- has-reverse-interlinear
- uses-dynamic-text-insertion
There are also a whole bunch of traits which indicate which resources support have which morphological tagging, e.g.:
- supports-cal-morph+x-arc
- supports-fr-morph+el
- supports-lbs-morph+arc
- supports-lbs-morph+el
- supports-lbs-morph+he
- supports-lls-morph+el
- supports-lls-morph+he
- supports-lls-morph+x-arc
- supports-sesb-morph+he
- supports-sesb-morph+x-arc
I'm sure there are others that are useful too. Anyway, I'm going to add a post asking specifically if this data can be exposed. I do think it would be very useful for some power users, and hopefully it would be very simple to add it.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:NB.Mick said:
This poor European owns NABRE, but my PG cross-reference list looks exactly as yours (and *.png display is broken yet again).
I wonder if you need NABRE and Verbum - NABRE to find this specific cross reference, and Verbum to add apocrypha support to the PG?
there needs to be another twist to it: I run Verbum Master.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
there needs to be another twist to it: I run Verbum Master.
Do you have the Verbum interface switched on, or the normal Logos interface?
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Mark Barnes said:NB.Mick said:
there needs to be another twist to it: I run Verbum Master.
Do you have the Verbum interface switched on, or the normal Logos interface?
The Verbum interface - at least that's what the homepage is showing. Since I was hoping for the massively instructive posts from the Verbum blog to show up (instead of or at least in addition to the more lightweight Morris Proctor posts), I turned it on when it became available and haven't switched back since.
Have joy in the Lord!
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You're right, I don't think it's Verbum that's causing the difference. If you run a PG on Ezra 9:4 or Nehemiah 5:4, you'll get cross references for 2 Esdras (due to a tagging error in HCSB), even if Verbum is off.
MJ, is there another Bible you have that is giving you a cross reference for Wisdom? Can you try the search again, but this time make sure that the Cross Reference field is selected?
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Mark Barnes said:
Interesting that you have Wisdom as a cross reference.
Interesting indeed. I don't have it either, and I too have NABRE and use the Verbum setting.
And Mick's on Windows Beta, while I'm on Mac Stable, so the two most common causes for differences seem ruled out.
Addition after seeing your new post:
It's hard to imagine a Bible that MJ has, but you, I and Mick don't. My prime suspect would be the New Jerusalem.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
It's hard to imagine a Bible that MJ has, but you, I and Mick don't. My prime suspect would be the New Jerusalem.
I can at least confirm that I don't have the NJB (would love to have one for the much-acclaimed notes, never tried whether Logos would sell me the supposedly US-only reader's edition).
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
I can at least confirm that I don't have the NJB (would love to have one for the much-acclaimed notes, never tried whether Logos would sell me the supposedly US-only reader's edition).
And neither do I. I thought it was NABRE that I wasn't allowed to purchase, but I can see that I was getting mixed with New Jerusalem. So, if MJ has New Jerusalem, and New Jersualem has Wisdom 10:3 as a cross reference, then it will be mystery solved. Over to you!
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Mark Barnes said:
So, if MJ has New Jerusalem, and New Jersualem has Wisdom 10:3 as a cross reference, then it will be mystery solved.
Not fully. It would solve why MJ can see the cross-reference to Wisdom (actually, from her bug report in the other thread, I understand that she couldn't see any of the other references).
However, since we all own the NABRE which has the cross reference, we all should see it - or is there an error in the database field you were exploring, so Logos thinks there are no cross-references in NABRE and doesn't query this bible for them?
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
However, since we all own the NABRE which has the cross reference, we all should see it - or is there an error in the database field you were exploring, so Logos thinks there are no cross-references in NABRE and doesn't query this bible for them?
Logos doesn't use all Bibles to do generate the cross references. I own dozens, but only four are used. I don't own NABRE, so I'm not able to determine whether or not it uses that. One of the reasons why not all are used is that many of them have the same source anyway, and because Logos uses frequency to determine importance, counting the same set of references twice in two resources would be counter-productive.
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