David Ames said:

George Somsel said:

Paul Golder said:

"All one needs is a faithful English version of the Bible and a good dictionary, and he will be equipped for every work in Christ Jesus." ~ Wilbert Webster White 

Needful or advantageous?  It is still wise for those in charge of leading a congregation to know Greek (and Hebrew).

And if we do not have a George or two around how will we KNOW that it is a 'faithful' version?

Well I am happy enough with the NRSV… traditional yet cognizant of advances in scholarship. I will say most translations have advantages in one way or another, but to quote one preacher who never knew the original languages, The best translation is the one you will read. And I think Billy Graham was right. Even the worst translation I know of will do a pretty good job of sharing the message of gospel (I realize that occasional translations like the NWT will offer a very distorted view of some things, but most translations try to be faithful to the originals within their own parameters).

-Dan

Has anybody considered the division an iPad could cause between the "haves" and the "have nots?"

My wife will not wear a 32 carat diamond necklace or full length mink coat to church because she does not want others to stumble in covetousness.  [;)]

Paul Golder said:

What if one wanted to follow along the reading of Scripture, in the Greek, using an iPad?

OT or NT?  What if a pig flew through the nave?

Yep. We're 'data plan' driven now. And not even poor. Better uses for the money. 

Having perfectly updated books from Logos is now a major negative, especially typos in image books. We'll probably dump the Chromebook just to get control of the data flow. 

We're in heaven on Kindle. Controlled syncing, no updates, and cheap prices.

Here, ostentatious cowboy hats are fine, as long as you bring your horses for the Christmas pagent.

Butters said:

Denise said:

This tool differentiates original-language word senses, helping you understand Scripture as its inspired authors intended.

Denise, I'm not familiar with the blizzard of tools Logos offers - which tool are you referring to here?  It sounds interesting.  Thanks!  ~Butters 

Denise, this question may have gotten buried - just wondering about the above?

Cheers,

~Butters [:)]

Denise said:

And not even poor. Better uses for the money.

[Y]

Denise said:

We're in heaven on Kindle. Controlled syncing, no updates, and cheap prices.

[Y][Y]

Denise said:

Butters, I was being my usual poorly behaved self, relative to MJ's considered (and gracious) patience.

The sentence comes from the Logos blog relative to the Bible Sense Lexicon. I'll leave it at that.

Oh, I see.  Sorry.  LOL.  My sarcasm meter appears to be not working well.  [:P]

~Butters [:)]

David Ames said:

George Somsel said:

Paul Golder said:

What if one wanted to follow along the reading of Scripture, in the Greek, using an iPad?

OT or NT?  

Both!!!!

If you're reading the OT in Greek (LXX), you may not be reading the same text as is being read by the lector since most translations are based on the MT.

Kevin A. Purcell said:

George Somsel said:

As far as I'm concerned it is still today MORE than a faux pas to be using an electronic device in church.  Church is a communal experience whereas one who uses an electronic device is turning it into an individual experience.  If that's what you want, take your electronic device and go home.

Why is it more individual. In fact I'd argue that reading from the YouVersion or Faithlife app with community notes is more communal than a paper bible. Just because someone says this is so doesn't make it so. Give me a reason why you think it is true.

It is then not a COMMUNAL experience.  Just as the Agape meal was turned into an individual experience.

“When you come together, it is not really to eat the Lord’s supper. For when the time comes to eat, each of you goes ahead with your own supper, and one goes hungry and another becomes drunk. What! Do you not have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you show contempt for the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I commend you? In this matter I do not commend you!”

(1 Corinthians 11:20–22, NRSV)

Denise said:

Communal electronics can be a plus or minus. 

During the sermon someone can twitter a comment and you suddenly hear grunts of agreement ripple thru the congregation.

Alternatively, twittering an 'Amen' seems ok.

Have we become to addicted to our electronics that we have forgotten how to open our mouths and utter a word?

alabama24 said:

George Somsel said:

Have we become to addicted to our electronics that we have forgotten how to open our mouths and utter a word?

In some environments, it might not be appropriate to "utter a word." 

In the church where I grew up we were not charismatics, but occasionally someone would utter an "Amen!"

The point was brought up about excess of an iPad, perhaps when tablets become even more ubiquitous this may not be something to complain about but I will say they same sort of thing may equally happen with a Bible Book. One person may well be able to afford a mass paper back while someone sitting down the pew has a genuine leather Bible that cost over tens times as much. There are good reasons to have a leather Bible It is more durable, usually easier to open and the gilding helps protect from water damage. In that case a pew Bible for everyone is the great equalizer (however would you ban people from bringing their own paper Bible to church????) but, I would suspect in the not too distant future, people owning a paper Bible might be seen as the ostentatious ones. Tablet adoption by people not even owning computers has been fast because as pricey as they are they are, they ares so handy. Schools in many places are buying them on mass for students or offering a discount on them. Our rural high school has even requested students have a tablet, making android tablets available at a discounted rate (a majority of students apparently already had one, my helper's son even had one, and they are not particularly well off). Although I do realize this is all relative our poorest people in north america are amazingly wealthy compared to most of the worlds truly poor.

-Dan

A tablet wears out pretty quickly, not to mention all the fingerprints on the monitor meanwhile. That won't change much.

I do have a tablet, but I don't use it for reading a Bible (other than clicking the occasional Bible reference - but I actually mostly look up in paper Bibles).

Unix said:

A strength of paper Bibles is that sometimes just the NT is enough. That takes less space and is lighter than any tablet.

Ooh...hang on...let me get the popcorn real quick.

BKMitchell said:

Super Tramp said:

No, I see nothing sinful about the device itself but what effect it has on the worship experience of others does matter. Would it be wrong to use an audio Bible in worship service? What if I am blind? Would my personal needs outweigh those of my fellow worshippers? 

Good point! If someone were sitting next to me in a worship service listening to a Walkman or an ipod that might be distracting and if they were doing so without head phones that would create some issues.

Slippery slope warning!!

• If a person near me in worship is distracted when I raise my hand as I sing praise to God, then I probably shouldn't raise my hand.
• And if another person near me in worship is distracted when I say (not shout) "Amen" in response to the preacher, then I probably shouldn't say "Amen."
• And if someone else doesn't like the fact that I that I use a Bible translation different from the one he or she uses, then I probably shouldn't use my preferred translation.
• If the presence of first-time worship guests causes certain charter members to spend valuable worship time wondering who "those people" are, perhaps we should sit first-timers in the rear.
• And if the the presence of someone's wheelchair in the center aisle of the worship center distracts another person who loves the pristine splendor of an empty aisle's unimpeded view of the altar, perhaps we shouldn't allow wheel-chair users to sit in the center.
• And if........

I get that some distractions cross the line (e,g, audio sources played sans hearing devices), but where is the line? What about the responsibility the "distracted" people to support the worship needs of those who allegedly "distract" them?

All I have to say about Pope Francis is:  In the short term, he is about as close to an unmitigated disaster as we can get; however, it should be admitted that we've been through worse and this too shall pass.  Think in centuries, not decades.

~Butters [:)] 

One can take solace in these words: 

[quote] “It is always dangerous to draw too precise parallels between one historical period and another; and among the most misleading of such parallels are those which have been drawn between our own age in Europe and North America and the epoch in which the Roman Empire declined into the Dark Ages. None the less certain parallels there are. A crucial turning point in that earlier history occurred when men and women of good will turned aside from the task of shoring up the Roman imperium and ceased to identify the continuation of civility and moral community with the maintenance of that imperium. What they set themselves to achieve instead—often not recognising fully what they were doing—was the construction of new forms of community within which the moral life could be sustained so that both morality and civility might survive the coming ages of barbarism and darkness. If my account of our moral condition is correct [one characterized by moral incoherence and unsettlable moral disputes in the modern world], we ought to conclude that for some time now we too have reached that turning point. What matters at this stage is the construction of local forms of community within which civility and the intellectual and moral life can be sustained through the new dark ages which are already upon us. And if the tradition of the virtues was able to survive the horrors of the last dark ages, we are not entirely without grounds for hope. This time however the barbarians are not waiting beyond the frontiers; they have already been governing us for quite some time. And it is our lack of consciousness of this that constitutes part of our predicament. We are waiting not for a Godot, but for another—doubtless very different—St. Benedict.”

~ Alasdair MacIntyre