Poetry Formatting in Loeb
As excited as I am to see Logos moving into publishing works from the classical tradition (ie. Noet), I've been a little disappointed to note that the Greek in the latest Homer editions appear to be formatted in paragraph format instead of as verse. While I don't yet have access to the files to verify this, I have already noticed that the Aeneid has been published like this (see below).
Could anyone comment?
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I should also note that I have hard copies of both the Aeneid and the Iliad in the Loeb editions used by Logos for their scans, and none of the original language material is printed in paragraph format.
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I've been concerned about the number of transcription errors in the Latin references of some Logos books. I hope the Loeb series are of a better quality, though the cauo instead of cano in the first line doesn't inspire confidence. But this seems to be the only error on the page.
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Yes, after I get done posting about the paragraph versus verse problem, I'll post some screenshots of tagging and transcription problems in the Loeb Latin versions. You're right, Dean, the cauo/cano error in the very first line of the Aeneid doesn't bode well.
But in the meantime, I just received the Loeb Homer editions, and they're in paragraph format. I haven't yet returned a purchased Logos resource, but this is close to unacceptable.
As a comparison, here is a correctly formatted Iliad:
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They really need to do better than this if they want to make inroads in the Classics market--using their Loeb edition (minus the Loeb formatting) one doesn't even know what line they are reading.
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Logos is usually very quick to correct this type of systemic error - let's wait for a response from them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I brought the issue of the poor transcription of Latin in Logos books to Logos on this forum more than six months ago. Someone said they would raise the issue with the relevant people, but there has been no visible indication that anything has changed.
Now we purchase what we think are Loeb editions, only to discover that the Loeb formatting is missing. I am going to need to keep the physical copies on my shelf.
I hope you are right M. J., but where would I read this response? I never heard anything back after I raised the issue of poor Latin transcription in non-Classics books. How can I be confident this will receive a response?
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Thanks for these comments, and I apologize for the delay in responding.
The typo mentioned above is unfortunate, precisely because it occurs in the opening line of the Aeneid. But thanks also for bringing it to our attention--it will be corrected as soon as possible. I'll make sure of that.
As soon as I'm able, I'll also have a response on the issue of line versus paragraph formatting. I'm going to consult with the electronic text development department to confirm the formatting type that was present in our source files for these particular editions. Thank you for your patience.
Also, Dean053, can you direct me to the forum thread you reference above about quality of Latin transcription? I can follow up on that as well. I invite you to email me personally as well to discuss these issues in further detail if you'd like.
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We apologize for this. This was a mistake on our part. We are currently working to get the affected resources updated. We will let you know when they are updated.
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Thanks Michael and Kyle--your posts are very reassuring.
Here is the original thread I created (which was a bit more recent than I remembered):
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My guess is that this is the result of following the format of Logos' exemplar. The Perseus files have it formatted as poetry. Perhaps you could give an URL since there is more than one listing.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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How can I be confident this will receive a response?
Perhaps someone had emailed a couple of people they know at Logos to ask that whoever was the correct contact during the holidays look at the thread? Perhaps that someone thought that it was important to get a response before the holiday so the people affected had less time to stew before they could be assured that Logos would correct the problem. Perhaps that someone who doesn't read Greek knew how annoyed they would be if someone did a similar misformatting of perfectly good Sanskrit poetry.[;)] Anyway, you did get a quick response[:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Peace, Michael and Richest Blessings for the New Year 2014! *smile*
I appreciate all your hard work and efforts for Logos and for us! Indeed!
Perhaps it would be helpful when you consult with the electronic text development department for you to help them understand better the reading out loud (or reciting!) of some of the Greek and Latin Classics ...
For example, this (and there are others!) Wikipedia Article: on Dactylic hexameter ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dactylic_hexameter
Thanks! *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Indeed MJ--thank that 'someone' for me [:P]
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Glad to hear this will be addressed. I thought the Logos staff had some new theory going about Homeric verse, lol. [:)]
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Any word on this? Given that Noet is being introduced to the public with the Iliad as a freebee in particular, I'd think Logos would make it a priority to make sure the Greek displayed correctly..
Or perhaps Logos is hoping classicists or lovers of Homer will be impressed by an Iliad and an Odyssey formatted like a novel and not like an epic poem?
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Any word on this? Given that Noet is being introduced to the public with the Iliad as a freebee in particular, I'd think Logos would make it a priority to make sure the Greek displayed correctly..
It's being worked on. I will have an estimate on when it'll be ready soon.
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They've fixed it! Thank you Michael, the verses are displaying correctly for the Iliad and the Oddessy. Two months later, not bad.
That said, the recent update seems to have broken the tagging. Nothing shows up when I mouse over any of the words. No tags at all, not even the automatic ones. Is there any way to have them turned back on?
Finally, the Loeb edition of Virgil's Aeneid is still incorrectly formatted. (But thanks for fixing cano/cauo, even though it broke the word's tagging too.
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We're aware of these issues and are working on them. The tagging will be restored as soon as possible. The formatting in the Loeb edition of Virgil's Aeneid, however, while currently being worked on, will require more time. Thanks for your patience!
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I have noticed that the Loeb Iliad has some incorrect tagging. For example, Book 1 Line 48 the word ἔπειτ’ is tagged incorrectly. There are numerous other words I've come upon randomly that are similarly incorrect.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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Butters, we'll look into this. If you have further examples, please email them to me at mike [at] logos.com.
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Butters, we'll look into this. If you have further examples, please email them to me at mike [at] logos.com.
I've seen quite a few and haven't noted them because with so many incorrect I thought it must have been part of a wider problem. Shall keep track from now on.
“To love means loving the unlovable. To forgive means pardoning the unpardonable. Faith means believing the unbelievable. Hope means hoping when everything seems hopeless.” ~Chesterton
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