Logos vs. OliveTree Bible Reader

I recently switched from OliveTree to Logos after many happy years using the OliveTree product on various devices. I had built up quite a collection of over $400 of resources. My main driver for change was the huge number of resources from Logos. OliveTree pales in comparison.

But I had reason to load up on my iPad Mini the latest version of OliveTree. I have to say that the app itself in my opinion is so much more user friendly than the iOS version. Does anyone else find that? For example, it can all be used offline. Also, you can split the screen in OliveTree with the right hand pane being all of your linked commentaries, bible references, maps etc, all linked to the passage on the left that you are reading currently. When you open a reference on the right hand side, it stays in the right hand pane. In Logos you have something similar through the Passage Guide, but when you open the cross reference, it places it on the left hand pane overwriting the bible verses that you are reading. It does not even sync the bible verses with the passage guide cross links.

Am I missing anything or is this the way it works? Does the Android version do it better? Or do we need to stay with the Windows or MAC versions to get them?

Many thanks,

Richard.

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Comments

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/558999#Comment_558999

I guess they could switch and use the "two finger swipe," but that would not be best for the majority of users.

Or they could do like OT, and make scroll or swipe a user switchable option.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559003#Comment_559003

I have two columns on a screen. When I scroll with 2 fingers the left column scrolls up and the verses on the right column starts to scroll, but ways until there is room and then pops to the bottom of the left. creating a very jerky motion.

I don't see this

When I scroll up in the left column, text from the top of the right moves across cleanly and is backfilled with more text scrolling up on the right.

What version of the Logos software are you using? Which version of iOS and which model iPad / iPhone?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/558977#Comment_558977

such as running any kind of guide (passage, bws, etc.)

I do not use Olive Tree so I don't know whether or not it can do bws or has passage guides. If it does not then it s not fair to compare the Logos desktop capabilities to the Logos app.

I thought we were only concerned with using the apps as readers.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559025#Comment_559025

I do not use Olive Tree so I don't know whether or not it can do bws or has passage guides. If it does not then it s not fair to compare the Logos desktop capabilities to the Logos app.

I think its valid to refer to the fact that the Logos app requires Internet for functions such as Passage Guides and BWS. It is an issue which many people have raised.

I have no knowledge of how OT works in this regard.

I thought we were only concerned with using the apps as readers.

I think the discussion as around overall functionality.

Edwin Combs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559025#Comment_559025

such as running any kind of guide (passage, bws, etc.)

I do not use Olive Tree so I don't know whether or not it can do bws or has passage guides. If it does not then it s not fair to compare the Logos desktop capabilities to the Logos app.

I thought we were only concerned with using the apps as readers.

Olive Tree has a second screen Resource Guide that continually updates depending on what section of verses are in the main screen. It also has pop ups, so when you tap on a word you can look up the word in Strong's or other lexicon you have installed. All function are don't by the app on the device (iPad, iPhone, or android device). Not needing a connection. i.e.. I don't need a connection for the guide to tell me I have resources that go with a section of scripture. The app does this automatically in the background.

Now, comparing desktop software is different. Logos, totally out does Olive tree in function and resources. The few things that olive tree has on logos is that it's fast, simple and works exactly like the iPad version. If you learn how to use it on the iPad it functions the exact same way in Windows and Mac. However, Olive tree doesn't have Reverse Interlinear Bibles. which I really like on Logos.

Edwin Combs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559035#Comment_559035

I meant "All functions are done by the app on the device"

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559003#Comment_559003

I have two columns on a screen.

That isn't the default setting, so somehow you changed it.

what view settings are you speaking of.

When you are reading a book, Look for the "Aa" icon. If you don't see it, swipe one finger down to bring up the top & bottom menu items.

When I scroll with 2 fingers the left column scrolls up and the verses on the right column starts to scroll, but ways until there is room and then pops to the bottom of the left. creating a very jerky motion.

This mode really isn't for reading... it's for positioning the text for highlighting and note taking.

Edwin Combs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559019#Comment_559019

I have two columns on a screen. When I scroll with 2 fingers the left column scrolls up and the verses on the right column starts to scroll, but ways until there is room and then pops to the bottom of the left. creating a very jerky motion.

I don't see this

When I scroll up in the left column, text from the top of the right moves across cleanly and is backfilled with more text scrolling up on the right.

What version of the Logos software are you using? Which version of iOS and which model iPad / iPhone?

Yes, but it's not smooth. It would be best for this to be a single column instead of two columns. Why have text scrolling from one column into the other before leaving the screen when you can simply just have a single column and scroll like most every other Bible app on the market. This is really just a work around for selecting. They really mean for people to swipe pages. What I don't understand is why they feel it necessary to force people in swiping pages instead of allowing people to simply scroll up and down. It would seem to me that scrolling a single column would be easier when dealing with the guides.

Edwin Combs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559040#Comment_559040

I have two columns on a screen.

That isn't the default setting, so somehow you changed it.

what view settings are you speaking of.

When you are reading a book, Look for the "Aa" icon. If you don't see it, swipe one finger down to bring up the top & bottom menu items.

When I scroll with 2 fingers the left column scrolls up and the verses on the right column starts to scroll, but ways until there is room and then pops to the bottom of the left. creating a very jerky motion.

This mode really isn't for reading... it's for positioning the text for highlighting and note taking.

Thank you for all the info today, I didn't know about the 2 finger scrolling nor how to make it single column. I disliked the swiping pages functioning of the app so much that I rarely used it. Now, you've opened it up to my liking a little more. It still could be smoother and it still could do away with the internet connection and do the work on the device. But it's better. I'll have to play around with it more.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559007#Comment_559007

I swore myself I would not get into any "this vs that" discussions, but I felt useful to share my experience choosing among apps and my reasons.

Thank you, David, for that extensive analysis. You expressed my feelings about Logos vs Accordance very well.

Drew Hannay

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/558999#Comment_558999

Why not "one finger"? Simple. There are too many features to work out. A single swipe up brings up the contextual menu. I guess they could switch and use the "two finger swipe," but that would not be best for the majority of users.

I know this is the reason given by us in the past for not supporting single-finger scrolling, but I also realize it sounds like a pretty lame excuse. [:)] It's not even a valid excuse in the Android app anymore, since we don't bring up a context menu when you do a single swipe up.

The real reason why we have two-finger scrolling and not one-finger is because (like others have mentioned) two-finger scrolling is more of a "nudge" and less of a "scroll", meant to assist with highlighting. Real one-finger scrolling needs to be smooth and support things like "flinging" the text, having it slow down gradually, etc (just like any other scrolling experience on your iOS/Android device). We don't think the current two-finger scrolling experience lives up to our expectations for one-finger scrolling (and, in fact, it shouldn't, because it serves a different purpose) so we don't want to advertise it falsely.

All that being said, smooth vertical scrolling IS something we plan on adding to the mobile apps eventually, but it's not number one on the priority list right now.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559312#Comment_559312

Thanks for clarifying Drew. [:)]

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559312#Comment_559312

I blame it all on the Kindle. For years those of us who adopted ebooks on Palm PDA's had scrolling (most software had smooth adjustable automatic scrolling too), but then Amazon did their big "Turn pages just like a book!" campaign, and the world jumped on the Kindle, not knowing that there was a better way to e-read. And, of course, when Apple "innovated" by directly copying Amazon, the app lemmings lined up at the cliff.

So here we are, having to suffer through the wait while the app world realizes that it was done better over 15 years ago...

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559407#Comment_559407

The Kindle example is a bit slippery. They made the iOS version (haven't tried the others) so a vertical swipe also works. But only moving forward. You have to trick it, going backward. But yes, those 'pages'. Too often I try to turn the corner down and bend my iPod.

Patrick Tye

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/517849#Comment_517849

have you tried preaching from notes in split screen?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559424#Comment_559424

have you tried preaching from notes in split screen?

It might help if you clarify... for example: Who are you talking to? [:P]

Martin Folley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559312#Comment_559312

Re 2 finger navigation ...

As I read through this on my MacBook, I find that I am naturally scrolling up and down using two fingers. One finger moves the mouse, two fingers move the page up and down. Since iOS is an apple system, it seems sensible that there should be compatibility/transparency between the two. I find that I do not even think about scrolling when I switch devices. Mac Laptop have had touch gesture touch pads for years.

I am not sure if this is true in the world of Windows. The last PC laptop that I used involved moving mouse pointers to scroll bars and clicking on little arrows or dragging scroll bars.

My point is not an 'Apple is best' issue (it is [:P] ) it is more that as well as the general paradigm that Drew highlighted, for iOS and OS X, there is a ergonomic compatibility that should be maintained. Personally, I read so much electronically that scrolling is natural. The idea of turning a page at a time seems tied to the medium and tradition but not necessarily the best way of going about things. I set my pdf readers to continuous, I do not use columns in the Logos desktop app, and of course there is web browsing etc. As an example, the ease of scrolling through different open resource panels on a mac is wonderful and natural ... I cannot remember what our PC brethren experience ... but I move the mouse and use two fingers ... no clicking etc.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559542#Comment_559542

Personally, I read so much electronically that scrolling is natural. The idea of turning a page at a time seems tied to the medium and tradition but not necessarily the best way of going about things.

I question whether scrolling is "best," but easily conceded that user preference is largely at play. Turning a page seems much more efficient, and easier for the eyes.

Paul Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/559600#Comment_559600

I question whether scrolling is "best," but easily conceded that user preference is largely at play. Turning a page seems much more efficient, and easier for the eyes.

Not to mention that some people actually prefer the turning of the page rather than scrolling!

Hopefully, when Logos gives you scrolling folks your scrolling they don't take away the ability to turn the page (for us page-turning folks)!

Regards,

Paul

Richard Mast

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/515871#Comment_515871

This two-finger scroll is very cumbersome and jerky in Logos. The Olive Tree scroll is smooth and quick.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/655259#Comment_655259

This two-finger scroll is very cumbersome and jerky in Logos. The Olive Tree scroll is smooth and quick.

That's because OliveTree doesn't support footnotes. Logos does, and it means the text scrolls line by line, rather than pixel by pixel.

Smooth scrolling (without footnotes) is very likely coming soon to the Logos app.