Logos vs. OliveTree Bible Reader
I recently switched from OliveTree to Logos after many happy years using the OliveTree product on various devices. I had built up quite a collection of over $400 of resources. My main driver for change was the huge number of resources from Logos. OliveTree pales in comparison.
But I had reason to load up on my iPad Mini the latest version of OliveTree. I have to say that the app itself in my opinion is so much more user friendly than the iOS version. Does anyone else find that? For example, it can all be used offline. Also, you can split the screen in OliveTree with the right hand pane being all of your linked commentaries, bible references, maps etc, all linked to the passage on the left that you are reading currently. When you open a reference on the right hand side, it stays in the right hand pane. In Logos you have something similar through the Passage Guide, but when you open the cross reference, it places it on the left hand pane overwriting the bible verses that you are reading. It does not even sync the bible verses with the passage guide cross links.
Am I missing anything or is this the way it works? Does the Android version do it better? Or do we need to stay with the Windows or MAC versions to get them?
Many thanks,
Richard.
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I am a long time BibleReader user since 2003 and Logos since 2006, I much prefer OT for the iPhone/iPad. Logos mobile is a fine reader but perhaps being such a long time user of BR I am far too use to it to ever be as comfortable in Logos mobile. I thing I hate most about logos is the need to be online ally he time to do anything much more than basic functions.And of course OT has a few resources you can't get in Logos. The android version is less robust than the iOS version as I understand it.
-Dan
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Thanks Dan. I am hoping that the Logos Developers have a copy of Olivetree to gain some inspiration. Logos on iOS is not bad, but certainly has a long way to go.
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Like you, I had about $400 worth of Bible Reader resources. I used to use BibleReader as my primary app up until about 9 months ago, when I made the switch to the Logos app. I agree that generally, Bible Reader is a great app, but Logos has made significant improvements since it's release in 2009, and I believe that overall it just about edges BibleReader. That said, for studying rather than just reading the various texts, BibleReader still edges Logos, mostly for the reasons you mention.
For example, it can all be used offline.
Whilst not everything in Logos can be used offline, almost all of it can. The main exceptions are the Guides and reverse-interlinear lookup. But BibleReader can't really do this anyway, even online. I presume you know you can download individual books using Logos and have them available offline?
Also, you can split the screen in OliveTree with the right hand pane being all of your linked commentaries, bible references, maps etc, all linked to the passage on the left that you are reading currently. It does not even sync the bible verses with the passage guide cross links.
Logos can split the screen, and maintain the links as your scroll through your Bible/commentary. It doesn't have the Resource Guide of BibleReader, though. And you're right that having the PG open in the primary window is annoying. But you can link the two panes together, by pressing and holding on the separator bar and selecting 'link panels'.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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The main exceptions are the Guides and reverse-interlinear lookup. But BibleReader can't really do this anyway, even online.
Original language resources built in, BR has interlinear support (I have two versions of the KJV as well as ESV and NASB, and I know there are a few other versions) and the resource guide in Olive tree populates far quicker than Logos Passage guide. I have no doubt that Resource guide was inspired by Logos passage guide (after seeing how well it was done with Bible reader I no longer believe Logos statement that passage guide on phone/tablet is not practical).
-Dan
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BTW for any new user at the moment (or if you are a Logos user who does not already own it) you can't buy Theological Word book of the Old Testament, eliminating one of the most helpful basic Hebrew reference works.
-Dan
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I am deeply appreciative of all the things that the Logos Bible! app can do, particularly for giving me a mobile version of my books so that I can read on the road or other 'on the move' situations. Notes are great and I am so looking forward to other features like clippings and prayer lists coming to the app.
However, when it comes to quickly getting at the text and original languages, I tend use the Accordance iOS app. It's much faster, easier and more intuitive. I can do it on Logos, but it is slower and not as efficient.
This is of course very subjective, but I mention this by way of constructive feedback that a core activity of a Bible iOS app is getting to the text and accessing it. If it is not efficient or you have to be connected to the internet, this hamstrings part of the reason for portability.
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the text and original languages, I tend use the Accordance iOS app. It's much faster, easier and more intuitive.
I would agree with you there… a big part of it for me too is most of my Hebrew greek dictionaries are in accordance I just wish accordance would have the feature that you find on Olivetree allowing you to open which ever lexical resource you want to the proper word.
-Dan
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I expect I'm behind the times posting to this thread (I don't read the forums very often), and I may not be as expert a user as others, but here are two comments for what they are worth:
I'm a long term Logos user so most (if not all) of my resources are in Logos. I use an iPad for preaching and conducting group Bible studies. I can customize the OT app to work is ways which fit my use eg scrolling the text up and down instead of turning pages. I don't understand why Logos cannot offer the same customization features but they don't.
My second comment has to do with the interface between Logos and iTunes. Logos does not backup any of the books I have downloaded when I sync with iTunes so I can have a local backup of my downloaded resources (it use to do this but it was removed several updates ago - apparently Logos are concerned about possible conflicts between older resources that have been stored in a local backup and updated resources on their servers). This has caused me problems only once (the detail is not important) but having to download again a group of useful resources after a fresh install is not a helpful experience. (I know also that OT doesn't do this but at least I can backup the OT folders manually.)
Because of these two issues I regard the Logos app as a reader only, use the desktop version of Logos for anything serious and go into the pulpit with OliveTree.
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One other thing that i should say Verbum iOS (technically Logos Catholic version software) is nicer than Logos iOS, I had initially avoided exploring it since it required redownloading all my resources, but i find it a little more user friendly once you learn how to use it (I didn't realize passage guide was accessed via swipe up). I still prefer over all Olivetree but Logos is not the worst software out there.
-Dan
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For example, it can all be used offline.
Whilst not everything in Logos can be used offline, almost all of it can. The main exceptions are the Guides and reverse-interlinear lookup. But BibleReader can't really do this anyway, even online. I presume you know you can download individual books using Logos and have them available offline?
For me the main exceptions are:
1. non-Biblical links (which are unavailable, even if you have the linked resource available offline
2. the popup "Info" window for Greek / Hebrew Bibles, which should ideally populate offline with the basic parsing / definition information (as it does online) even if the Bible Word Study doesn't work.
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Some great thoughts here. Don't get me wrong, Logos / Verbum are great products and I am so grateful that some very clever people have made them available. The resources available just cannot be found in any of the other products. But the offline use of passage guide, comparison and citations is a really big omission. Olivetree has a resource guide implemented that works offline using a downloaded database. OT must create the cross references for the resources they have, put it into a database and then update it periodically. Of course that would be a massive database if Logos were to make it downloadable.
But I think the biggest improvement would be the layout. OT enables a split screen where the Bible text is on the left (for e.g.) and the resource guide is on the right of the screen. You can scroll through the resources identified, open them up, read, while keeping the bible text on the left. Nicely implemented. Logos is somewhat more cumbersome.
Anyway, not complaining, just comparing.
Richard.
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Anyway, not complaining, just comparing.
Welcome to the forums. Great first post.
From my brief experience with Olive Tree I can say I like the look and think the Resource Guide is pretty responsive. I find navigation between opened resources a bit easier in Logos. Olive Tree's greater options on a tap and hold on a word and how they are implemented (as in Lookup) are a better design IMO. I don't have purchased resources in OT so can't comment on how working with original languages compare.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I also switched from OT to Logos (a few years ago) and had some invested into the app. What made me switch was also the number of resources on logos that I could not get on OT. That being said, I do like the guides on the OT app much better! Also, the ability to scroll instead of page turn is awesome! Overall I'm very happy with the logos app, but there are definitely a few things that logos can improve on when compared to Olive Tree.
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the Logos mobile apps DO have the ability to scroll. Simply use two fingers up or down.
only on iOS... [:(]
Urban Scholar - http://urban-scholar.com
Christ-centered Hip-Hop - http://www.sphereofhiphop.com0 -
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so it is... I was just reading the Logos vs. OT discussion, not realizing it was in the iOS forum [:)] still waiting for the two-finger scrolling on Android though
Urban Scholar - http://urban-scholar.com
Christ-centered Hip-Hop - http://www.sphereofhiphop.com0 -
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From my understanding there are several features in iOS that have yet to make it android… I really wish Logos would ad a simplified offline passage guide similar to one in Olivetree… I am often out of cell service and no wifi near so Logos becomes very basic fast at that point...
-dan
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Thanks for that alabama24: I knew I could scroll using two fingers but in comparison to the OT app it is clumsy. My ideal would be the OT app with the Logos library - but that would be dream the impossible dream . . . . Failing that I'd like to be able to customize the Logos app to the same degree as I can within OliveTree.scrolling the text up and down instead of turning pages
FYI — The Logos mobile apps do now have scrolling, which is preformed with a two finger swipe.
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I just dont get it, why some people prefer scrolling over turning pages. For me scrolling is useless because my eyes get tired seeing moving letters of the text. I LOVE TURNING PAGES feature and this is one of the reasons why I use Logos App.
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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I just dont get it, why some people prefer scrolling over turning pages. For me scrolling is useless because my eyes get tired seeing moving letters of the text. I LOVE TURNING PAGES feature and this is one of the reasons why I use Logos App.
I am very pleased for you!! In certain situations I do as well - except when I am preaching!
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The primary use case for scrolling (as opposed to page turning) is being able to highlight text that spans two "pages".
Peter
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I have used Logos since the 90's, and BR for just a few years.
The main reason I use BR is the fact I can put my sermon into the notes of BR, and preach from it, with the verses popping up when I tap on them. Nothing like it in Logos. Hope developers at Logos check out this thread!
Also, the option to set scrolling in BR's settings instead of page turning is a desire I have for Logos. If it was a setting instead of a two finger swipe, it would be more useful. I like the scrolling so that verses I am studying are not broken onto two pages as I study through a passage.
The ability to study original languages is better in Logos... Just wish it was available offline... Same with Passage Guide and Word Study tools. Great when you have a connection... not so great when you do not.
Windows 7, Nexus 7
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The primary use case for scrolling (as opposed to page turning) is being able to highlight text that spans two "pages".
Peter
two finger scroll helps me to highlight the text that spans two pages. In the same way for preaching. Two finger scroll does not bother me since I am doing more reading and turning pages is very useful
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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I suspect the could swap the actions of single swipe up/down with two-finger swipe up/down, and then make an option switch in settings for which you would prefer. One finger swipe up/down is much more natural, would match what other applications do, and would be more in line even with Logos' 1 finger swipe left/right to page turn (both actions moving the text).
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I have used Logos since the 90's, and BR for just a few years.
The main reason I use BR is the fact I can put my sermon into the notes of BR, and preach from it, with the verses popping up when I tap on them. Nothing like it in Logos. Hope developers at Logos check out this thread!
Also, the option to set scrolling in BR's settings instead of page turning is a desire I have for Logos. If it was a setting instead of a two finger swipe, it would be more useful. I like the scrolling so that verses I am studying are not broken onto two pages as I study through a passage.
The ability to study original languages is better in Logos... Just wish it was available offline... Same with Passage Guide and Word Study tools. Great when you have a connection... not so great when you do not.
I agree! I agree! I agree! It's good to find someone else of like mind.
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Logos could and should do a major upgrade of its iOS app to improve the experience. Logos should have the best designed Bible app available. "Heavy lifting" study is not something that you can do much of with the horse power of an iPad anyway.
As is, the free app is not going to attract very many new people to buy Logos products.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0
