Microsoft Surface
Comments
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Those assuring words were enough for me, no need to quote other ones. I strongly believe promises are not fulfilled (in the context of being fully supported as IOS/Android). Last week I sold my Macbook Air, hoping to buy a Surface. It is very painful to realize that I cant trust this company the way I did before.Wild Eagle said:Scott Alexander (Logos) said:
Yes we will support ARM devices, we're actully woking on it right now.
I may be misunderstanding you, but here's the context of the discussion: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57269/411400.aspx#411400
A user asks, "the supported processors are only x86 and x64 for the Logos Bible App. Is there a plan to support ARM Processors like that in the Surface in the near future?" Scott replies, "Yes we will support ARM devices, we're actully woking on it right now."
The supported processors for the app now list "ARM" (http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/bible/c54ee3d8-1ccb-4265-89ae-41ffb92f65e0). That was what was promised, and it was delivered.
In Scott's previous post, he had said "we are working hard to match functionality [of the iOS/Android app]". I don't see anywhere where Scott said "we absolutely will have iOS-like functionality on ARM". I don't think it's fair to read into Scott's words a promise that a version as fully-featured as the iPad version would be on ARM.
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I really appreciate the way Logos has supported my IPads and android phones. You didn't have to do this (especially without an extra fee for different platforms). I don't feel that Logos mislead us on the subject of the Surface. I understand the quandary created by the original Surface. I considered the original Surface because I use Word and PowerPoint so much. When I considered it, I decided against it and bought an iPad 3 instead. The screen, CPU, and battery life were deal breakers to me. To make matters worse, Microsoft's advertising strategy was a serious mistake.
This time around I was considering the Galaxy Tab 10.1 2014 and the iPad 5. I purchased a Surface 2 instead. The screen, CPU speed, and battery life now meet my needs. The detachable keyboard is fantastic and I can finally use it with complex DOTX and PPTX documents. My hope is that these improvements, plus a better advertising campaign will boost sales enough to eventually justify Logos developing the arm app. For now I use Logmein to run Logos 5 from my desktop computer in the Surface browser. Or, if I'm just reading, I might use www.Biblia.com. But the Surface app is really not even worth the effort.
If I could just get my highlighting and notes and a second synced panel I would be happy.0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
We have very few users of the 'Metro' interface, and almost all of them also use Logos via desktop Windows and/or another platform, too.
Indeed. But they fill different purposes, particularly on tablets & hybrids. I don't really care about ARM. But having a nimble, small memory/CPU footprint metro app is a huge value in terms of enjoying reading Logos books a on tablet. I've been using the metro app along side my full installation. And I've done something that I never truly did with Libronix 3, Logos 4, or Logos 5: I sat down and began reading a book simply for the sake of reading. I've done a lot of research and study with Logos, but this was the first time I've been able to simply enjoy a book in my library. Up until that point, I had simply enjoyed having access to my library.
So I do hope that there will be some continued development, even at a slower pace. I don't care for a full feature set compared to iOS. With access to the full version that isn't super necessary, but there's still a lot that could be done to facilitate the simple pleasure of reading.
If that happened, I would seriously consider picking up a low power 8" Atom tablet just for that purpose. That would be absolutely superb.
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I'm extremely confused.
There is not going to be a better Windows Store app because specifically the Surface RT didn't do well? What about the millions of people who will be running Windows 8.1 on x86 laptops with touch screens and x86 tablets?
Doesn't a Windows Store app work on all Windows 8.1 devices very easily? There are lots of tablets other than the Microsoft Windows RT ones. A lot of those x86 tablets use a processor I wouldn't really be wild about running Logos 5 on and the idea of using Logos 5 on an 8 inch touch screen doesn't seem like an experience I would line up to have.
To me the explanation we are being given doesn't really make much sense.
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As I can run Logos 5 on an 10" x86 touch tablet I don't need the (Windows Store) Bible reader app, and if I'm away from the tablet the (Android) Bible app on my phone has sufficient features. So I don't need to compromise my x86 experience by having a small 8" screen and it doesn't make sense to get an RT machine with limited all-round functionality!
As long as users stick to desktop x86 apps and the Android/iOS apps the Windows Store app will languish. Only when MS begin to deprecate the Desktop UI apps will it flourish.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Groen said:
What about the millions of people who will be running Windows 8.1 on x86 laptops with touch screens and x86 tablets?
They already have a full-featured Logos "app": Logos 5. [:)]
Mark Groen said:To me the explanation we are being given doesn't really make much sense.
It's about trying to allocate our resources in the most sensible way possible. Should we really develop a second app for a platform that already has one, when the mobile apps don't yet have all the features of the desktop, and Windows Phone 8 doesn't even have an app at all?
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Should we really develop a second app for a platform that already has one, when the mobile apps don't yet have all the features of the desktop, and Windows Phone 8 doesn't even have an app at all?
I'm not really satisfied by the answer but if it means we are a step closer to a Windows Phone 8 app I'll keep my mouth (well, fingers actually) shut. [:D]
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:
Should we really develop a second app for a platform that already has one, when the mobile apps don't yet have all the features of the desktop, and Windows Phone 8 doesn't even have an app at all?
Yes, Windows Phone 8 app is so much more needed IMHO.
Bohuslav
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Remember the Surface RT and the Surface 2 ARE NOT TRADITIONAL WINDOWS. There exists 2 versions of windows that look exactly alike and have both a ''modern UI/METRO'' interface and a traditional startmennow. Logos 4 or 5 will work perfectly the same on Windows 8.1 as it does on WIndows 8 or 7 or Vista or XP.
Don't blame Logos for Microsoft's confusing and stupid choices in marketing and educating consumers.
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"Stupid?" In this forum? Surely in a forum like this we can let our, "words be seasoned with salt."
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I did not mean to imply orcall any person stupid. I sincerly repent if you thought that or if I did. I meant to call Microsoft's collective decision to make an new OS (RT) look exactly the same as another with no combatibility and give it a similiar name (though different) and then to change the name a year later stupid.
If Microsoft was more clear and transparent in their marketing, many people would not be so upset.
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Did anyone see that the price on the 1st Generation Surface PRO (the one that runs Logos 5 beautifully!) just dropped the price another $300? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.275287300?Icid=SurfaceCat_Hero_Rot_Surface_Pro_Savings_Bundle_01.03.14
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Can you take a guess as to when a more functional app will be available to use with my SurfaceRT. Very disappointed, that I cannot use my logos on my tablet to do searches.
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I have some bad news for you. They do not plan to make any improvements on the app. They claim there aren't enough of us Surface RT users to make it worth their while. I could be wrong but I have a sneaky feeling that there are a lot of people carrying around Mac Powerbooks at Logos [8-)]
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Waiting for the market share to hit 10% or greater? News came out yesterday that might provide a slight glimmer of hope.
"The IDC recently revealed that the market share of Windows-based tablets has risen from 1% in 2012, to 3.4% in 2013. Whilst this is still a small percentage of the market, that number is predicted to rise to 10.2% by 2017." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/microsoft-beats-market-expectations-9083175.html
I think the Windows RT and Windows 8.1 operating systems are gaining the acceptance of hardware manufacturers, This will help drive the market share up, and hopefully encourage Bob to dedicate more developers to this cause. We can only hope - and pray.
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[:)] I saw it dropped but doesnt included a keyboard. I keep thinking I should make the leap to the old almost affordable previous version.
What am I missing out on if I do not go to Surface 2 besides the too much touted mult-level kickstand?
Is this your (or can it be my) replace it all one machine for everything device (except answering calls) I mean.
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Josh,
The differences between the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 are:
- The SP has an Ivy Bridge processor while the SP2 has a Haswell processor
- The battery life on the SP2 is a lot higher than the SP
- The SP2 runs much cooler than the SP
There's other stuff, like more SkyDrive storage that you get for free with the SP2.
The improved kickstand of the SP2 may be valuable to you or it may not.
Both will run Logos well.
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Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:Mark Gawura said:
That is great news!
Unfortunately, the post you replied to is over a year old and, since then, we have cut back development on the Windows Store app as Windows RT marketshare has not taken off.
We're not ruling out future development on the platform, but it's not under active development right now.
Please keep in mind that the Windows Store platform is much broader than just Windows RT. It also includes the entire x86/full windows space.
Why is this important? With the latest breed of Intel Atom processors (Bay Trail), small windows touch devices that are quite powerful and low cost are viable. There is a whole class of 8" Windows tables based on Bay Trail that are sub-$300 and natively x86 (Dell Venue 8 Pro w/ 2gig of memory and 64gig flash can be had for $299 currently).
I am currently running Logos5 on the device, but a IOS/Android equivalent Windows8 Metro app for this device would be ideal for quick/simple work and study.
-jbl
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I know you have to run a business, and the market share for Windows tablets is not high, but I am incredibly sad.
I liked the app for my Android tablet, but I couldn't use my Android tablet for "real work," so I picked up a Surface RT. The Surface RT is incredibly superior to the Android tablets in terms of getting work done, but now I have this crummy Logos app that apparently has no plan of being updated.So, I either choose to lug my laptop around (which I won't), try to get work done on a device designed for play (Android / iOS), or I fumble around with an underdeveloped app on a machine that actually allows me to get all of my other tasks done in the same way I could get them done on a laptop.
These are tough choices. I'm hoping some competition comes along to provide an app that works as well as the Android Logos App, but on a Windows machine.0 -
I sympathize with your pain, for I am in the same boat. Right now, the only way around this is to get the Surface Pro. which I am currently contemplating. I'm unsure if I want to take the plunge. With my luck I would do that and then Logos will update the app to ios quality. [8-)]
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I am on the fence too....and may still be able to get the original SP for a cheaper price...but fear buyers remorse if they remove support or suddenly decide to have a fire sale on the new update Version 2 of the Hardware. It would kill me if I buy the dud original and then suddenly the newer model comes down in price.
I loathed the original SP as a hot brick with lousy battery life and not enough volume....but may settle for it even though I see myself squinting as I spend long hours reading from it (Kindle and Logos book reading for school) and hoping in Bible Study that it will do a quick search for me (unlike my Note 2 phone which seems to take forever to find anything).
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I bought the original suface. Its hot, fan runs often despite trying to fiddle with the power controls, and doing very little winds down the battery...sigh.
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I can get about 5-7 hours.
It's never is hot. Never above 37 decibels even under full load, and actually keeps its full clock speed under multi-threading because of the active perimeter venting combined with its magnesium case for passive cooing.http://www.allthatnerdystuff.com/2013/10/21/how-to-optimize-microsoft-surface-pro-battery-life/
Follow that guide like I did. Hope the best for you.
Also, it really depends on your expectations and needs. I needed an ultra notebook, a great screen for photography, a powerful processor for HD video editing, fast SSD for Logos text crunching, a true digitizer for art, and at least 5 hours of battery life. Nowadays, you can get it for about $600 too!
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As a proud owner of a new Surface 2, let me just echo my agreement. This is a highly productive device, and about half the price of the pro. When the previous version came out a little over a year ago there were not as many apps. Today however, there are several and many are starting to show signs of maturity. I do hope that Logos improves their support for the modern UI. It would be a shame to have to walk away after all these years because they no longer support my chosen platform. I do not have the funds to simply go out and buy the more expensive tablet for one software provider.
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I just bought the original Surface Pro on sale - new from Microsoft Store (online).
After one week the headphone jack I was running the speakers through just mysteriously stopped working. Its like the system is insisting I ONLY use its tiny speakers instead.
Sigh.[:(]
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JoshInRI said:
I just bought the original Surface Pro on sale - new from Microsoft Store.
After one week the headphone jack I was running the speakers through just mysteriously stopped working. Its like the system is insisting I ONLY use its tiny speakers instead.
Take it back. If you just bought it new from the Microsoft Store, it will be under warranty
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I keep wondering if the headphone jack is a well hidden problem.
I could try to find a wireless usb jack solution workaround too.
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I have a Surface Pro, and its headphone jack is kind of wonky too. I thought it was broken, but in actuality it is just very sensitive about how/where the headphone jack is plugged into it. I have to be very careful to not plug the jack in too far. There is a sweet spot that I have to hit with it that is a "detent" a bit less than "all the way in until it stops." If I hit the sweet spot, it works great. Give it a try and see if that fixes your problem too.
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JoshInRI said:
I bought the original suface. Its hot, fan runs often despite trying to fiddle with the power controls, and doing very little winds down the battery...sigh.
My experience with my Surface Pro:
The fan rarely comes on. In fact, when using Logos it never comes on. The only time it comes on is if I am playing a game.
My battery life is about 5 to 6 hours if I am using it for reading, Logos, Word, etc. If I use it for watching Netflix, I get about 3 or 4 hours. Games can hit it pretty hard depending on the game.
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Battery life? [:'(]
I would be lucky - even with tweaking - if I made it 3.5 hours.
Anyone know a good wall powered usb wireless cheap workaround where I can leave the speaker plugged in not far away and still feed sound from the Surface?
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I am getting a replacement Surface Pro tomorrow. I would not recommend this machine to anyone - not a soul.
Its very hot on your palm in church and the power control settings are useless. There should be a way to force the fan to come on.
If you need a cup warmer - just turn over your Surface after 20 minutes!
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Here’s the most important thing: The much-awaited Microsoft Surface Pro 2 is a long battery-life variant of the real Microsoft Surface Pro (the one you are complaining about). Added to that, the laptop is enhanced with present-generation Haswell CPU and an improved backlit keyboard. This makes the tablet one of the best gadgets ever crafted from Microsoft and running Logos (full version, NOT just an app).
Featuring a screen of 10.6 inches with a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels, the display is brighter and better than before. The device is light in weight (2 lbs) - not as light as the iPad Air, but still lighter than my laptop! It comes decked with Intel Core i5 -4200 U clocked at 1.6GHz with storage capacity of 64GB SSD Hard Drive and graphics of 1,792MB Intel HD 4400. It offers network connectivity of Bluetooth 4.0 and 802.11 b/ g/n and runs on Windows 8.1 (64 bit). This means I can run ANY piece of software I want, and am not limited to what is just in the app store. Huge benefit!
With enhanced battery life and well-designed accessories, this laptop is surely a great choice to go for. For multimedia lovers, it features stereo speakers along with a combo of microphone and headphone. It also comes with a 720 HD camera for those who do Skype or other forms of Internet conferencing. The RAM can be enhanced from 4GB to 8GB. For connectivity, the device comprises Ethernet jack, USB 2.0 USB 3.0 ports, in/ out jack and Mini Display port connection.
All in all, not a bad piece of equipment to have a portable Logos!
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Russell E. Hixon said:
... with storage capacity of 64GB SSD Hard Drive...
All in all, not a bad piece of equipment to have a portable Logos!
I would not recommend for Logos users to buy 64GB. At least 128gb unless you are not planning to have a big library
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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No disagreement with that at all. Also, the two larger storage Surface Pro 2s come with 8GB of RAM instead of just 4GB.0
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Well, I made the plunge and bought a Surface Pro 2 with 256GB hard drive. I am now happy, I can bring my tablet to church and have my library at my fingertips when needed. Now I have to sell my RT.
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The need for a windows store app updates bring highlighting and notes functionality is so great I would be willing to pay for the app knowing its necessary due to the small market share.
I would be willing to pay up to 100.00 (on the payment plan of course) for these main options
Highlight
Lookup (dictionary and languages)
Notes
Table of contents
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I would also add the ability to download resources. I would be willing to pay as well. Maybe closer to $50.
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Logos should see who would be willing to pay to make up for the market share by using the community pricing method to see how many bids and what price people are willing to pay to have a better functioning Windows Store App
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I would love to know how much you get for your RT when you sell it. I am on the verge as well. I love the Surface, but heavily rely on LOGOS for my studying. I'm actually a little surprised that Logos isn't reading this forum, and thinking, "hey, I wonder if there is a way for us to be capitalizing on this trend instead of Microsoft?"
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Hope it works out for you. Mine still runs hot after using Logos 5.x (not the MS Store App which is sadly just a reader) and after running all the updates and after choosing a way to make the fan run more often, etc.
I am getting a replacement today for the (original) Surface as the headphone jack stopped working. I wish I could have afforded the more recent, apparently NOT on-fire version I have to live with.
I also am opting NOT to use the SP in church during worship on Sundays - maybe just on Bible Study on Tuesday nights.
My chief complaint is the HOT surface!
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Dear JoshInRi, your heat issues are surprising. According to the extensive review of the Surface Pro at NotebookCheck.net, the temps never becomes unpleasant. My experience agrees. Here are some quotes to compare between the original SP and the SP2.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Microsoft-Surface-Pro-Tablet.90881.0.html- The Microsoft Surface Pro always feels warm. Regardless of whether it is subjected to a low processing load or fully utilized, the difference only amounts to a few degrees Celsius. With a minimum of approximately 30 °C and a maximum of just over 40 °C, the surface temperatures never become unpleasant. The cooling system is conceived for working as silently as possible with a low processing load, while not allowing the internal components to get too hot with a high processing load resulting in relatively constant case temperatures.
Perhaps an exchange or the Surface Pro 2 might yield some benefits. This is the SP2 reviews:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Microsoft-Surface-Pro-2-Tablet.105769.0.html- The very low power consumption rate of just 3.1 to 7.2 watts - while the device is idle or handling simple tasks - leads only to a slight warming of the case, even though the fan remains mostly silent. Only in the lower third of the front have we measured somewhat more than 30 °C. Apart from that instance, all temperatures remained below 30 °C, leading to a lukewarm tablet at most, a far better result than anything its predecessor was capable of achieving.
- Things look different under full load - the quiet operation of the fans now becomes a liability, leading to surface temperatures of up to 44.5 °C at the right hand side of the rear part of the device. Such a temperature can become uncomfortable when the Surface Pro 2 is used as a tablet, but at least it doesn't occur unless a continuous stress test is performed for more than one hour.
That's for the tested ones they have. So what is your CPU usage % during these hot times, according to Task Manager? It may not be Logos nor Microsoft's doing. For example, I had a problem with LightRoom 5.3 running some CPU-crushing disc scouring during the day. But it's easy to make that stop though. So let's what's running the gears during the hot times. What's your idle temps and your load temps?
Also, are you letting the indexing to complete overnight, instead of during normal use? What power savings have you customized? Do you use the tablet with the keyboard flipped to the back? You might be interested in the following, the Surface FreedomCase. http://www.freedomcase.com/
I'm going to use that with the keyboard always attached. It'll be great in the 70* mode, almost flast, right in front of my 24", for multi-tasking. But also, it truly protects but still lets it vent the heat. I'm not sensitive to the heat, as I live in Las Vegas, so I can't say for you. But the case might make the tablet mode more comfortable too. In case you are wondering, the Power Cover will also be supported.
Yours in Christ,
Pr. Vincent Shaw0 -
Thanks...I cannot afford the fancy cover.
I do not use a cover/keyboard flipped back.
My office and the church are actually on the cool side typically.
I know about the power settings and the way to make the fan come on more often.
Indexing is pretty quick and I never even notice when its happening now.The (original) Surface Pro is hot after I use it consistently for over one hour - not matter what I do - fact of life. Its unpleasant enough that a day later I still feel as though the bones in my palm have been irradiated and my thigh (where I let it rest only for a few minutes) feel singed. I am not exaggerating.
I got my replacement yesterday and the headphone jack works now (though I am going to continue to use my usb Soundblaster addon workaround).
I also cannot afford the Surface Pro 2 at twice the cost.
Here's hoping the Metro Logos icon one day does more than eread. I can and do use the Logos 5.x install on my desktop too. Its got problems (each time something different actually) and I will detail those someplace else another time when I have time.
Blessings / Joshua
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JoshInRI said:
Thanks...I cannot afford the fancy cover.
I do not use a cover/keyboard flipped back.
My office and the church are actually on the cool side typically.
I know about the power settings and the way to make the fan come on more often.
Indexing is pretty quick and I never even notice when its happening now.The (original) Surface Pro is hot after I use it consistently for over one hour - not matter what I do - fact of life. Its unpleasant enough that a day later I still feel as though the bones in my palm have been irradiated and my thigh (where I let it rest only for a few minutes) feel singed. I am not exaggerating.
I got my replacement yesterday and the headphone jack works now (though I am going to continue to use my usb Soundblaster addon workaround).
I also cannot afford the Surface Pro 2 at twice the cost.
Here's hoping the Metro Logos icon one day does more than eread. I can and do use the Logos 5.x install on my desktop too. Its got problems (each time something different actually) and I will detail those someplace else another time when I have time.
Blessings / Joshua
Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Hi JoshInRi,
Instead of the selling the Surface Pro or upgrading to the SP2, save yourself some aching by adjusting to your revolutionary product.
I never use the tablet flat on my lap, as it sounds like you do. It's not ergonomic. Because of your specific issues, I would advise against it.
I'd like to reframe this issue and the uses based on the form factors. This is not a laptop, it's an ultrabook in the shape of a tablet. I use it mostly on a desk, or on my lap (slouching like I like to, hehe) or cradled in my arms. If so, I have the cover flipped back which always keeps me cool.
Since you sound like you need the Type Cover open, use the kick stand. There's also the wireless adapter so you can sit further back.
Since you sound like you don't like the kick stand, consider something to insulate your legs from the heat. The $40 Freedom Case might give you additional angles and insulation, so reconsider it as solid solution. Maybe as a birthday gift, or something that would help your aching. There are many such cases on Amazon too, around $10 too.
Consider the $250 Dell Venue 8 Pro, which runs full desktop Logos, doesn't have any heat issues at all, something you can palm in one hand and read like a Kindle. It's a bargain considering it even comes with Microsoft Office.
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Michael Childs said:
Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
Michael Childs said:One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
Vincent0 -
The latest wrinkle on my Surface is troubling.
I am trying to highlight something on any version (I have multiple) of a book I am reading using the Kindle App....and instead of highlighting the selected text, the app backs up a page (returning to the prior page ). No reason...happens over and over. Its like my Surface is cursed or something. Anyone have this problem? On say every 8th try the highlight/note window pops up but its not consistent. Sigh.
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Vincent Xavier Shaw said:Michael Childs said:
Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
Michael Childs said:One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
VincentVincent,
After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2. The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great. It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do. It handles the load well. It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.
That is not an opinion based on any article. It is based on personal use and heavy use of my Surface Pro. It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.
I have taught Bible Studies using the Surface Pro 2 as my Bible (in a leather like cover), and most of my group did not realize that I was not using a paper Bible. It depends on how one uses it. I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation. It was a marvelous experience. Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture. Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note. Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.
Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way. I really can't see how ios or Android can compare.
So I have to respectfully disagree based upon my experience.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Everyone who is speaking out against this major disappointment is correct. This is not the only thread addressing this issue. There are several out there. Actually, what Microsoft has done is genius! Not Stupid! This is yet another clear picture of the bias against Microsoft and Logos clear favor towards Apple. Had apple come up with an operating system that worked across several platforms there would be several versions of the same app to fit every device and type. Oh wait, there this has already been done. Oh that's right, I forgot about the 'market share'. No concern for existing customers though. Only the ones that don't exist yet. Anyway, there is not much of a difference in the software on a Windows 8 phone and Windows RT and apps can be developed in such as way that they work on both. As a Surface Pro owner I have many apps that work on both the RT side of Pro and on the Windows Phone. If I had to choose between using a Surface Tablet and Logos, a choice I hope not to have to make), I definitely would stay with my Surface Pro and just use something else all together. The good news is that Logos does work on Windows 8.1 and on the Windows 7 side of Windows 8. No one should hold back from purchasing a Surface tablet because of Logos lack of RT support. The benefits of ownership far out weigh the lack of a Logos app. When I use my Surface at the pulpit or while teaching a class or Bible study I use a combination of other resources from the Windows Store. Logos is just one big fish in the pond. I'm sure someone will be working on an app for Windows Phone 8 that will take whatever market share is out there since Logos doesn't want it. I'm sure someone else will scoop it up. Also, keep in mind that Logos is not a 'ministry minded' organization it is a 'business'. One cares about those they serve and the other cares about profiting based on sales and market share.
- Windows 10 Pro
- Surface Pro
- Logos Gold
- Proclaim
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I was able to sell my RT for $150 at the local pawn shop, which was alot more than Bestbuy was willing to give me which was $75 max. I'm loving my pro 2 more each day!
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Michael Childs said:
"After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2."
Dead wrong, me? Michael, this is getting old. No insult meant. I love my Surface Pro. So I'm not insulting your SP2 or denying your joyful experience of it. Bucks well spent for some.
But for JoshInRi, he has another issue: heat. Therefore the heat difference between the original SP and the SP2 are important to being helpful. I'm plainly stating facts based on objective measurements from a 3rd party German computer laboratory, regarding that heat issue.
Based on that temperature test that I linked to, the SP2 is hotter under full load. If JoshInRi wants a less hot Surface Pro, the hotter SP2 is not a good suggestion. If your SP2 is cool to touch in your usage, the SP would be cooler in temp. If JoshInRi original SP is too hot, the SP2 being hotter would therefore not be a good fit because it is even hotter than his use of SP. If all variables held constant, this logic holds true.
In my case, it's not hot at all. And with only $40 spent, the FreedomCase that I suggested earlier should be arriving soon. I might even opt for the awesome Surface Power Cover version that I plan to pick up this week, if it isn't sold out at my local friendly Microsoft Store.
Michael Childs said:Vincent Xavier Shaw said:Michael Childs said:Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
Michael Childs said:One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
VincentVincent,
After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2. The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great. It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do. It handles the load well. It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.
That is not an opinion based on any article. It is based on personal use and heavy use of my Surface Pro. It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.
I have taught Bible Studies using the Surface Pro 2 as my Bible (in a leather like cover), and most of my group did not realize that I was not using a paper Bible. It depends on how one uses it. I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation. It was a marvelous experience. Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture. Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note. Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.
Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way. I really can't see how ios or Android can compare.
So I have to respectfully disagree based upon my experience.
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