Microsoft Surface

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  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    Yes we will support ARM devices, we're actully woking on it right now.

    Those assuring words were enough for me, no need to quote other ones. I strongly believe promises are not fulfilled (in the context of being fully supported as IOS/Android). Last week I sold my Macbook Air, hoping to buy a Surface. It is very painful to realize that I cant trust this company the way I did before.

    I may be misunderstanding you, but here's the context of the discussion: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57269/411400.aspx#411400

    A user asks, "the supported processors are only x86 and x64 for the Logos Bible App. Is there a plan to support ARM Processors like that in the Surface in the near future?" Scott replies, "Yes we will support ARM devices, we're actully woking on it right now."

    The supported processors for the app now list "ARM" (http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/bible/c54ee3d8-1ccb-4265-89ae-41ffb92f65e0). That was what was promised, and it was delivered.

    In Scott's previous post, he had said "we are working hard to match functionality [of the iOS/Android app]". I don't see anywhere where Scott said "we absolutely will have iOS-like functionality on ARM". I don't think it's fair to read into Scott's words a promise that a version as fully-featured as the iPad version would be on ARM. 

  • David Parks
    David Parks Member Posts: 19
    I really appreciate the way Logos has supported my IPads and android phones. You didn't have to do this (especially without an extra fee for different platforms). I don't feel that Logos mislead us on the subject of the Surface. I understand the quandary created by the original Surface. I considered the original Surface because I use Word and PowerPoint so much. When I considered it, I decided against it and bought an iPad 3 instead. The screen, CPU, and battery life were deal breakers to me. To make matters worse, Microsoft's advertising strategy was a serious mistake.
    This time around I was considering the Galaxy Tab 10.1 2014 and the iPad 5. I purchased a Surface 2 instead. The screen, CPU speed, and battery life now meet my needs. The detachable keyboard is fantastic and I can finally use it with complex DOTX and PPTX documents. My hope is that these improvements, plus a better advertising campaign will boost sales enough to eventually justify Logos developing the arm app. For now I use Logmein to run Logos 5 from my desktop computer in the Surface browser. Or, if I'm just reading, I might use www.Biblia.com. But the Surface app is really not even worth the effort.
    If I could just get my highlighting and notes and a second synced panel I would be happy.
  • Mike  Aubrey
    Mike Aubrey Member Posts: 447 ✭✭

    We have very few users of the 'Metro' interface, and almost all of them also use Logos via desktop Windows and/or another platform, too.

    Indeed. But they fill different purposes, particularly on tablets & hybrids. I don't really care about ARM. But having a nimble, small memory/CPU footprint metro app is a huge value in terms of enjoying reading Logos books a on tablet. I've been using the metro app along side my full installation. And I've done something that I never truly did with Libronix 3, Logos 4, or Logos 5: I sat down and began reading a book simply for the sake of reading. I've done a lot of research and study with Logos, but this was the first time I've been able to simply enjoy a book in my library. Up until that point, I had simply enjoyed having access to my library.

    So I do hope that there will be some continued development, even at a slower pace. I don't care for a full feature set compared to iOS. With access to the full version that isn't super necessary, but there's still a lot that could be done to facilitate the simple pleasure of reading.

    If that happened, I would seriously consider picking up a low power 8" Atom tablet just for that purpose. That would be absolutely superb.

  • Mark Groen
    Mark Groen Member Posts: 27

    I'm extremely confused.

    There is not going to be a better Windows Store app because specifically the Surface RT didn't do well?  What about the millions of people who will be running Windows 8.1 on x86 laptops with touch screens and x86 tablets?

    Doesn't a Windows Store app work on all Windows 8.1 devices very easily?  There are lots of tablets other than the Microsoft Windows RT ones.  A lot of those x86 tablets use a processor I wouldn't really be wild about running Logos 5 on and the idea of using Logos 5 on an 8 inch touch screen doesn't seem like an experience I would line up to have.

    To me the explanation we are being given doesn't really make much sense.

  • Dave Hooton
    Dave Hooton MVP Posts: 35,676

    As I can run Logos 5 on an 10" x86 touch tablet I don't need the (Windows Store) Bible reader app, and if I'm away from the tablet the (Android) Bible app on my phone has sufficient features. So I don't need to compromise my x86 experience by having a small 8" screen and it doesn't make sense to get an RT machine with limited all-round functionality!

    As long as users stick to desktop x86 apps and the Android/iOS apps the Windows Store app will languish. Only when MS begin to deprecate the Desktop UI apps will it flourish.

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 11 & Android 13

  • Bradley Grainger (Logos)
    Bradley Grainger (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 11,958

    What about the millions of people who will be running Windows 8.1 on x86 laptops with touch screens and x86 tablets?

    They already have a full-featured Logos "app": Logos 5. [:)]

    To me the explanation we are being given doesn't really make much sense.

    It's about trying to allocate our resources in the most sensible way possible. Should we really develop a second app for a platform that already has one, when the mobile apps don't yet have all the features of the desktop, and Windows Phone 8 doesn't even have an app at all?

  • Mark Groen
    Mark Groen Member Posts: 27

    Should we really develop a second app for a platform that already has one, when the mobile apps don't yet have all the features of the desktop, and Windows Phone 8 doesn't even have an app at all?

    I'm not really satisfied by the answer but if it means we are a step closer to a Windows Phone 8 app I'll keep my mouth (well, fingers actually) shut.  [:D]

  • Bohuslav Wojnar
    Bohuslav Wojnar Member Posts: 3,466

    Should we really develop a second app for a platform that already has one, when the mobile apps don't yet have all the features of the desktop, and Windows Phone 8 doesn't even have an app at all?

    Yes, Windows Phone 8 app is so much more needed IMHO.

    Bohuslav

  • Joseph
    Joseph Member Posts: 86 ✭✭

    Remember the Surface RT and the Surface 2 ARE NOT TRADITIONAL WINDOWS. There exists 2 versions of windows that look exactly alike and have both a ''modern UI/METRO'' interface and a traditional startmennow.  Logos 4 or 5 will work perfectly the same on Windows 8.1 as it does on WIndows 8 or 7 or Vista or XP. 

    Don't blame Logos for Microsoft's confusing and stupid choices in marketing and educating consumers. 

  • David Parks
    David Parks Member Posts: 19

    "Stupid?" In this forum? Surely in a forum like this we can let our, "words be seasoned with salt."

  • Joseph
    Joseph Member Posts: 86 ✭✭

    I did not mean to imply orcall any person stupid. I sincerly repent if you thought that or if I did.  I meant to call Microsoft's collective decision to make an new OS (RT) look exactly the same as another with no combatibility and give it a similiar name (though different) and then to change the name a year later stupid. 

    If Microsoft was more clear and transparent in their marketing, many people would not be so upset. 

  • David Thomas
    David Thomas Member Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭

    Did anyone see that the price on the 1st Generation Surface PRO (the one that runs Logos 5 beautifully!) just dropped the price another $300? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productID.275287300?Icid=SurfaceCat_Hero_Rot_Surface_Pro_Savings_Bundle_01.03.14

    Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).

  • Keith L. Rankin
    Keith L. Rankin Member Posts: 12

    Can you take a guess as to when a more functional app will be available to use with my SurfaceRT.  Very disappointed, that I cannot use my logos on my tablet to do searches.

  • David Parks
    David Parks Member Posts: 19

    I have some bad news for you. They do not plan to make any improvements on the app. They claim there aren't enough of us Surface RT users to make it worth their while. I could be wrong but I have a sneaky feeling that there are a lot of people carrying around Mac Powerbooks at Logos [8-)]

  • Russell E. Hixon
    Russell E. Hixon Member Posts: 9

    Waiting for the market share to hit 10% or greater? News came out yesterday that might provide a slight glimmer of hope.

    "The IDC recently revealed that the market share of Windows-based tablets has risen from 1% in 2012, to 3.4% in 2013. Whilst this is still a small percentage of the market, that number is predicted to rise to 10.2% by 2017." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/microsoft-beats-market-expectations-9083175.html

    I think the Windows RT and Windows 8.1 operating systems are gaining the acceptance of hardware manufacturers, This will help drive the market share up, and hopefully encourage Bob to dedicate more developers to this cause. We can only hope - and pray.  :)

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    [:)]  I saw it dropped but doesnt included a keyboard.  I keep thinking I should make the leap to the old almost affordable previous version.

    What am I missing out on if I do not go to Surface 2 besides the too much touted mult-level kickstand?

    Is this your (or can it be my) replace it all one machine for everything device (except answering calls) I mean.

  • Bill Anderson
    Bill Anderson Member Posts: 603 ✭✭

    Josh,

    The differences between the Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 are:

    • The SP has an Ivy Bridge processor while the SP2 has a Haswell processor
    • The battery life on the SP2 is a lot higher than the SP
    • The SP2 runs much cooler than the SP

    There's other stuff, like more SkyDrive storage that you get for free with the SP2.

    The improved kickstand of the SP2 may be valuable to you or it may not.

    Both will run Logos well.

  • Jason Ledbetter
    Jason Ledbetter Member Posts: 62 ✭✭

    That is great news!

    Unfortunately, the post you replied to is over a year old and, since then, we have cut back development on the Windows Store app as Windows RT marketshare has not taken off.

    We're not ruling out future development on the platform, but it's not under active development right now.

    Please keep in mind that the Windows Store platform is much broader than just Windows RT. It also includes the entire x86/full windows space.

    Why is this important? With the latest breed of Intel Atom processors (Bay Trail), small windows touch devices that are quite powerful and low cost are viable. There is a whole class of 8" Windows tables based on Bay Trail that are sub-$300 and natively x86 (Dell Venue 8 Pro w/ 2gig of memory and 64gig flash can be had for $299 currently).

    I am currently running Logos5 on the device, but a IOS/Android equivalent Windows8 Metro app for this device would be ideal for quick/simple work and study.

    -jbl

  • Jeremy
    Jeremy Member Posts: 9

    I know you have to run a business, and the market share for Windows tablets is not high, but I am incredibly sad. 

    I liked the app for my Android tablet, but I couldn't use my Android tablet for "real work," so I picked up a Surface RT.  The Surface RT is incredibly superior to the Android tablets in terms of getting work done, but now I have this crummy Logos app that apparently has no plan of being updated.

    So, I either choose to lug my laptop around (which I won't), try to get work done on a device designed for play (Android / iOS), or I fumble around with an underdeveloped app on a machine that actually allows me to get all of my other tasks done in the same way I could get them done on a laptop.

    These are tough choices. I'm hoping some competition comes along to provide an app that works as well as the Android Logos App, but on a Windows machine.

  • Mark
    Mark Member Posts: 66

    I sympathize with your pain, for I am in the same boat. Right now, the only way around this is to get the Surface Pro. which I am currently contemplating. I'm unsure if I want to take the plunge. With my luck I would do that and then Logos will update the app to ios quality. [8-)]

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    I am on the fence too....and may still be able to get the original SP for a cheaper price...but fear buyers remorse if they remove support or suddenly decide to have a fire sale on the new update Version 2 of the Hardware.  It would kill me if I buy the dud original and then suddenly the newer model comes down in price.

    I loathed the original SP as a hot brick with lousy battery life and not enough volume....but may settle for it even though I see myself squinting as I spend long hours reading from it (Kindle and Logos book reading for school) and hoping in Bible Study that it will do a quick search for me (unlike my Note 2 phone which seems to take forever to find anything).

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    I bought the original suface.  Its hot, fan runs often despite trying to fiddle with the power controls, and doing very little winds down the battery...sigh.

  • Vincent Xavier Shaw
    Vincent Xavier Shaw Member Posts: 23 ✭✭

    I can get about 5-7 hours.  :)  It's never is hot.  Never above 37 decibels even under full load, and actually keeps its full clock speed under multi-threading because of the active perimeter venting combined with its magnesium case for passive cooing.

    http://www.allthatnerdystuff.com/2013/10/21/how-to-optimize-microsoft-surface-pro-battery-life/

    Follow that guide like I did.  Hope the best for you.

    Also, it really depends on your expectations and needs.  I needed an ultra notebook, a great screen for photography, a powerful processor for HD video editing, fast SSD for Logos text crunching, a true digitizer for art, and at least 5 hours of battery life.  Nowadays, you can get it for about $600 too!

  • Gary McPherson
    Gary McPherson Member Posts: 8 ✭✭

    As a proud owner of a new Surface 2, let me just echo my agreement.  This is a highly productive device, and about half the price of the pro.  When the previous version came out a little over a year ago there were not as many apps.  Today however, there are several and many are starting to show signs of maturity.  I do hope that Logos improves their support for the modern UI.  It would be a shame to have to walk away after all these years because they no longer support my chosen platform.  I do not have the funds to simply go out and buy the more expensive tablet for one software provider.

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    I just bought the original Surface Pro on sale - new from Microsoft Store (online).

    After one week the headphone jack I was running the speakers through just mysteriously stopped working.  Its like the system is insisting I ONLY use its tiny speakers instead.

    Sigh.[:(]

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    I just bought the original Surface Pro on sale - new from Microsoft Store.

    After one week the headphone jack I was running the speakers through just mysteriously stopped working.  Its like the system is insisting I ONLY use its tiny speakers instead.

    Take it back. If you just bought it new from the Microsoft Store, it will be under warranty

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    I keep wondering if the headphone jack is a well hidden problem.

    I could try to find a wireless usb jack solution workaround too.

  • Jeff Miles
    Jeff Miles Member Posts: 58 ✭✭

    I have a Surface Pro, and its headphone jack is kind of wonky too. I thought it was broken, but in actuality it is just very sensitive about how/where the headphone jack is plugged into it. I have to be very careful to not plug the jack in too far. There is a sweet spot that I have to hit with it that is a "detent" a bit less than "all the way in until it stops." If I hit the sweet spot, it works great. Give it a try and see if that fixes your problem too.

  • Jeff Miles
    Jeff Miles Member Posts: 58 ✭✭

    I bought the original suface.  Its hot, fan runs often despite trying to fiddle with the power controls, and doing very little winds down the battery...sigh.

    My experience with my Surface Pro:

    The fan rarely comes on. In fact, when using Logos it never comes on. The only time it comes on is if I am playing a game.

    My battery life is about 5 to 6 hours if I am using it for reading, Logos, Word, etc. If I use it for watching Netflix, I get about 3 or 4 hours. Games can hit it pretty hard depending on the game.

  • JoshInRI
    JoshInRI Member Posts: 1,940

    Battery life? [:'(]

    I would be lucky - even with tweaking - if I made it 3.5 hours.

    Anyone know a good wall powered usb wireless cheap workaround where I can leave the speaker plugged in not far away and still feed sound from the Surface?