Microsoft Surface
Comments
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I am getting a replacement Surface Pro tomorrow. I would not recommend this machine to anyone - not a soul.
Its very hot on your palm in church and the power control settings are useless. There should be a way to force the fan to come on.
If you need a cup warmer - just turn over your Surface after 20 minutes!
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Here’s the most important thing: The much-awaited Microsoft Surface Pro 2 is a long battery-life variant of the real Microsoft Surface Pro (the one you are complaining about). Added to that, the laptop is enhanced with present-generation Haswell CPU and an improved backlit keyboard. This makes the tablet one of the best gadgets ever crafted from Microsoft and running Logos (full version, NOT just an app).
Featuring a screen of 10.6 inches with a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels, the display is brighter and better than before. The device is light in weight (2 lbs) - not as light as the iPad Air, but still lighter than my laptop! It comes decked with Intel Core i5 -4200 U clocked at 1.6GHz with storage capacity of 64GB SSD Hard Drive and graphics of 1,792MB Intel HD 4400. It offers network connectivity of Bluetooth 4.0 and 802.11 b/ g/n and runs on Windows 8.1 (64 bit). This means I can run ANY piece of software I want, and am not limited to what is just in the app store. Huge benefit!
With enhanced battery life and well-designed accessories, this laptop is surely a great choice to go for. For multimedia lovers, it features stereo speakers along with a combo of microphone and headphone. It also comes with a 720 HD camera for those who do Skype or other forms of Internet conferencing. The RAM can be enhanced from 4GB to 8GB. For connectivity, the device comprises Ethernet jack, USB 2.0 USB 3.0 ports, in/ out jack and Mini Display port connection.
All in all, not a bad piece of equipment to have a portable Logos!
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... with storage capacity of 64GB SSD Hard Drive...
All in all, not a bad piece of equipment to have a portable Logos!
I would not recommend for Logos users to buy 64GB. At least 128gb unless you are not planning to have a big library
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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No disagreement with that at all. Also, the two larger storage Surface Pro 2s come with 8GB of RAM instead of just 4GB.0
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Well, I made the plunge and bought a Surface Pro 2 with 256GB hard drive. I am now happy, I can bring my tablet to church and have my library at my fingertips when needed. Now I have to sell my RT.
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The need for a windows store app updates bring highlighting and notes functionality is so great I would be willing to pay for the app knowing its necessary due to the small market share.
I would be willing to pay up to 100.00 (on the payment plan of course) for these main options
Highlight
Lookup (dictionary and languages)
Notes
Table of contents
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I would also add the ability to download resources. I would be willing to pay as well. Maybe closer to $50.
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Logos should see who would be willing to pay to make up for the market share by using the community pricing method to see how many bids and what price people are willing to pay to have a better functioning Windows Store App
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I would love to know how much you get for your RT when you sell it. I am on the verge as well. I love the Surface, but heavily rely on LOGOS for my studying. I'm actually a little surprised that Logos isn't reading this forum, and thinking, "hey, I wonder if there is a way for us to be capitalizing on this trend instead of Microsoft?"
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Hope it works out for you. Mine still runs hot after using Logos 5.x (not the MS Store App which is sadly just a reader) and after running all the updates and after choosing a way to make the fan run more often, etc.
I am getting a replacement today for the (original) Surface as the headphone jack stopped working. I wish I could have afforded the more recent, apparently NOT on-fire version I have to live with.
I also am opting NOT to use the SP in church during worship on Sundays - maybe just on Bible Study on Tuesday nights.
My chief complaint is the HOT surface!
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Dear JoshInRi, your heat issues are surprising. According to the extensive review of the Surface Pro at NotebookCheck.net, the temps never becomes unpleasant. My experience agrees. Here are some quotes to compare between the original SP and the SP2.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Microsoft-Surface-Pro-Tablet.90881.0.html- The Microsoft Surface Pro always feels warm. Regardless of whether it is subjected to a low processing load or fully utilized, the difference only amounts to a few degrees Celsius. With a minimum of approximately 30 °C and a maximum of just over 40 °C, the surface temperatures never become unpleasant. The cooling system is conceived for working as silently as possible with a low processing load, while not allowing the internal components to get too hot with a high processing load resulting in relatively constant case temperatures.
Perhaps an exchange or the Surface Pro 2 might yield some benefits. This is the SP2 reviews:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Microsoft-Surface-Pro-2-Tablet.105769.0.html- The very low power consumption rate of just 3.1 to 7.2 watts - while the device is idle or handling simple tasks - leads only to a slight warming of the case, even though the fan remains mostly silent. Only in the lower third of the front have we measured somewhat more than 30 °C. Apart from that instance, all temperatures remained below 30 °C, leading to a lukewarm tablet at most, a far better result than anything its predecessor was capable of achieving.
- Things look different under full load - the quiet operation of the fans now becomes a liability, leading to surface temperatures of up to 44.5 °C at the right hand side of the rear part of the device. Such a temperature can become uncomfortable when the Surface Pro 2 is used as a tablet, but at least it doesn't occur unless a continuous stress test is performed for more than one hour.
That's for the tested ones they have. So what is your CPU usage % during these hot times, according to Task Manager? It may not be Logos nor Microsoft's doing. For example, I had a problem with LightRoom 5.3 running some CPU-crushing disc scouring during the day. But it's easy to make that stop though. So let's what's running the gears during the hot times. What's your idle temps and your load temps?
Also, are you letting the indexing to complete overnight, instead of during normal use? What power savings have you customized? Do you use the tablet with the keyboard flipped to the back? You might be interested in the following, the Surface FreedomCase. http://www.freedomcase.com/
I'm going to use that with the keyboard always attached. It'll be great in the 70* mode, almost flast, right in front of my 24", for multi-tasking. But also, it truly protects but still lets it vent the heat. I'm not sensitive to the heat, as I live in Las Vegas, so I can't say for you. But the case might make the tablet mode more comfortable too. In case you are wondering, the Power Cover will also be supported.
Yours in Christ,
Pr. Vincent Shaw0 -
Thanks...I cannot afford the fancy cover.
I do not use a cover/keyboard flipped back.
My office and the church are actually on the cool side typically.
I know about the power settings and the way to make the fan come on more often.
Indexing is pretty quick and I never even notice when its happening now.The (original) Surface Pro is hot after I use it consistently for over one hour - not matter what I do - fact of life. Its unpleasant enough that a day later I still feel as though the bones in my palm have been irradiated and my thigh (where I let it rest only for a few minutes) feel singed. I am not exaggerating.
I got my replacement yesterday and the headphone jack works now (though I am going to continue to use my usb Soundblaster addon workaround).
I also cannot afford the Surface Pro 2 at twice the cost.
Here's hoping the Metro Logos icon one day does more than eread. I can and do use the Logos 5.x install on my desktop too. Its got problems (each time something different actually) and I will detail those someplace else another time when I have time.
Blessings / Joshua
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Thanks...I cannot afford the fancy cover.
I do not use a cover/keyboard flipped back.
My office and the church are actually on the cool side typically.
I know about the power settings and the way to make the fan come on more often.
Indexing is pretty quick and I never even notice when its happening now.The (original) Surface Pro is hot after I use it consistently for over one hour - not matter what I do - fact of life. Its unpleasant enough that a day later I still feel as though the bones in my palm have been irradiated and my thigh (where I let it rest only for a few minutes) feel singed. I am not exaggerating.
I got my replacement yesterday and the headphone jack works now (though I am going to continue to use my usb Soundblaster addon workaround).
I also cannot afford the Surface Pro 2 at twice the cost.
Here's hoping the Metro Logos icon one day does more than eread. I can and do use the Logos 5.x install on my desktop too. Its got problems (each time something different actually) and I will detail those someplace else another time when I have time.
Blessings / Joshua
Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Hi JoshInRi,
Instead of the selling the Surface Pro or upgrading to the SP2, save yourself some aching by adjusting to your revolutionary product.
I never use the tablet flat on my lap, as it sounds like you do. It's not ergonomic. Because of your specific issues, I would advise against it.
I'd like to reframe this issue and the uses based on the form factors. This is not a laptop, it's an ultrabook in the shape of a tablet. I use it mostly on a desk, or on my lap (slouching like I like to, hehe) or cradled in my arms. If so, I have the cover flipped back which always keeps me cool.
Since you sound like you need the Type Cover open, use the kick stand. There's also the wireless adapter so you can sit further back.
Since you sound like you don't like the kick stand, consider something to insulate your legs from the heat. The $40 Freedom Case might give you additional angles and insulation, so reconsider it as solid solution. Maybe as a birthday gift, or something that would help your aching. There are many such cases on Amazon too, around $10 too.
Consider the $250 Dell Venue 8 Pro, which runs full desktop Logos, doesn't have any heat issues at all, something you can palm in one hand and read like a Kindle. It's a bargain considering it even comes with Microsoft Office.
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Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
Vincent0 -
The latest wrinkle on my Surface is troubling.
I am trying to highlight something on any version (I have multiple) of a book I am reading using the Kindle App....and instead of highlighting the selected text, the app backs up a page (returning to the prior page ). No reason...happens over and over. Its like my Surface is cursed or something. Anyone have this problem? On say every 8th try the highlight/note window pops up but its not consistent. Sigh.
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Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
VincentVincent,
After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2. The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great. It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do. It handles the load well. It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.
That is not an opinion based on any article. It is based on personal use and heavy use of my Surface Pro. It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.
I have taught Bible Studies using the Surface Pro 2 as my Bible (in a leather like cover), and most of my group did not realize that I was not using a paper Bible. It depends on how one uses it. I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation. It was a marvelous experience. Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture. Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note. Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.
Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way. I really can't see how ios or Android can compare.
So I have to respectfully disagree based upon my experience.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Everyone who is speaking out against this major disappointment is correct. This is not the only thread addressing this issue. There are several out there. Actually, what Microsoft has done is genius! Not Stupid! This is yet another clear picture of the bias against Microsoft and Logos clear favor towards Apple. Had apple come up with an operating system that worked across several platforms there would be several versions of the same app to fit every device and type. Oh wait, there this has already been done. Oh that's right, I forgot about the 'market share'. No concern for existing customers though. Only the ones that don't exist yet. Anyway, there is not much of a difference in the software on a Windows 8 phone and Windows RT and apps can be developed in such as way that they work on both. As a Surface Pro owner I have many apps that work on both the RT side of Pro and on the Windows Phone. If I had to choose between using a Surface Tablet and Logos, a choice I hope not to have to make), I definitely would stay with my Surface Pro and just use something else all together. The good news is that Logos does work on Windows 8.1 and on the Windows 7 side of Windows 8. No one should hold back from purchasing a Surface tablet because of Logos lack of RT support. The benefits of ownership far out weigh the lack of a Logos app. When I use my Surface at the pulpit or while teaching a class or Bible study I use a combination of other resources from the Windows Store. Logos is just one big fish in the pond. I'm sure someone will be working on an app for Windows Phone 8 that will take whatever market share is out there since Logos doesn't want it. I'm sure someone else will scoop it up. Also, keep in mind that Logos is not a 'ministry minded' organization it is a 'business'. One cares about those they serve and the other cares about profiting based on sales and market share.
- Windows 10 Pro
- Surface Pro
- Logos Gold
- Proclaim
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I was able to sell my RT for $150 at the local pawn shop, which was alot more than Bestbuy was willing to give me which was $75 max. I'm loving my pro 2 more each day!
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"After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2."
Dead wrong, me? Michael, this is getting old. No insult meant. I love my Surface Pro. So I'm not insulting your SP2 or denying your joyful experience of it. Bucks well spent for some.
But for JoshInRi, he has another issue: heat. Therefore the heat difference between the original SP and the SP2 are important to being helpful. I'm plainly stating facts based on objective measurements from a 3rd party German computer laboratory, regarding that heat issue.
Based on that temperature test that I linked to, the SP2 is hotter under full load. If JoshInRi wants a less hot Surface Pro, the hotter SP2 is not a good suggestion. If your SP2 is cool to touch in your usage, the SP would be cooler in temp. If JoshInRi original SP is too hot, the SP2 being hotter would therefore not be a good fit because it is even hotter than his use of SP. If all variables held constant, this logic holds true.
In my case, it's not hot at all. And with only $40 spent, the FreedomCase that I suggested earlier should be arriving soon. I might even opt for the awesome Surface Power Cover version that I plan to pick up this week, if it isn't sold out at my local friendly Microsoft Store.
Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
VincentVincent,
After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2. The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great. It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do. It handles the load well. It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.
That is not an opinion based on any article. It is based on personal use and heavy use of my Surface Pro. It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.
I have taught Bible Studies using the Surface Pro 2 as my Bible (in a leather like cover), and most of my group did not realize that I was not using a paper Bible. It depends on how one uses it. I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation. It was a marvelous experience. Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture. Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note. Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.
Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way. I really can't see how ios or Android can compare.
So I have to respectfully disagree based upon my experience.
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"After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2."
Dead wrong, me? Michael, this is getting old. No insult meant. I love my Surface Pro. So I'm not insulting your SP2 or denying your joyful experience of it. Bucks well spent for some.
But for JoshInRi, he has another issue: heat. Therefore the heat difference between the original SP and the SP2 are important to being helpful. I'm plainly stating facts based on objective measurements from a 3rd party German computer laboratory, regarding that heat issue.
Based on that temperature test that I linked to, the SP2 is hotter under full load. If JoshInRi wants a less hot Surface Pro, the hotter SP2 is not a good suggestion. If your SP2 is cool to touch in your usage, the SP would be cooler in temp. If JoshInRi original SP is too hot, the SP2 being hotter would therefore not be a good fit because it is even hotter than his use of SP. If all variables held constant, this logic holds true.
In my case, it's not hot at all. And with only $40 spent, the FreedomCase that I suggested earlier should be arriving soon. I might even opt for the awesome Surface Power Cover version that I plan to pick up this week, if it isn't sold out at my local friendly Microsoft Store.
Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you. When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating. Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.
During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1. It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off. I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat. It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive. It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro. Context is everything, right?
One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro. My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2.
As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.
Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money. Thanks for the info.
Michael, I respectfully disagree. The SP2 is not a good suggestion. Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP. It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads. With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.
On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone. My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons. I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time. I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares. That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.
At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving. After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?
I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro. But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone. My practice so far is all of the above. haha
Regards,
VincentVincent,
After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it. There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2. The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great. It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do. It handles the load well. It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.
That is not an opinion based on any article. It is based on personal use and heavy use of my Surface Pro. It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.
I have taught Bible Studies using the Surface Pro 2 as my Bible (in a leather like cover), and most of my group did not realize that I was not using a paper Bible. It depends on how one uses it. I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation. It was a marvelous experience. Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture. Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note. Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.
Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way. I really can't see how ios or Android can compare.
So I have to respectfully disagree based upon my experience.
I don't care whether or not you believe me, my friend. I don't care what experts say. You can find experts to say anything.
I don't even know what full load means, but I will tell you what I mean.
I know for a fact the Surface Pro 2 in my hands right now can run all day using Logos , Word Pro, and OneNote together, and I feel absolutely no heat problem and hear no annoying fan. I know because I do it every day. Well, five days a week, most weeks, and have done it for several months now. I know this Surface Pro 2 can wirelessly stream a three and half hour Mississippi State Baseball game to my television, and have no heat issues that I can detect.
If experts think otherwise, they are dead wrong, too. I hold more reliable data in my hands.
Now what am I to believe, my lying eyes and hands, or the experts?
Am I take no offense. It doesn't matter whether you are insulting my tablet or not. It does not have hurt feelings, and I do not care what computer or tablet anyone chooses for themselves. I am simply sharing my experience.
So, I know you are dead wrong about the Surface Pro 2 and heat issues. I am sure you are right about many other things.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Hopefully, I can contribute to this conversation for the benefit (at least) of those who are searching for "Surface Pro 2" like I did all over the Logos forums prior to buying mine.
I purchased the 128GB SP2 with 4G RAM 1.5 weeks ago. I come from a background of high-performance PCs and carry high-expectations in anything I use. I also have a technical background, being an electrical engineer by trade.
There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2. The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great.
I agree. The pen is sweet for underlining and hitting the little blue links in the ESV Bible.
It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do. It handles the load well. It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.
I don't yet know if it will replace my PC functionally, but it looks like it's going that direction...
It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.
I'm not sure I can say "best tool" yet, but again, the trend is towards that direction. It definitely has made Logos MUCH more functional for me. Reading LOGOS books with full program functionality (including notes, highlighting, lists, etc) while out on my deck is phenomenal.
I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation. It was a marvelous experience. Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture. Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note. Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.
I'm very excited to try this!
Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way.
I wholeheartedly agree. I plan to offer a full review in a month or so, but for now, let me say that the SP2 I purchased 1.5 weeks ago is wonderful. I use it daily for my morning Bible study, and evening reading, and it has outperformed my expectations. Logos runs almost as well as my i7 4770k desktop (perhaps because I'm using the integrated HD4000 graphics engine in the i7, and the i5 in the SP2 has the upgraded HD4400 engine?).
I don't even know what full load means, but I will tell you what I mean.
I know what full load means
I haven't had to push the SP2 that hard yet, since Logos doesn't even get close to taxing the proc. except when setting up a new layout perhaps, or possibly when searching. Haven't run processor benchmarks against Logos yet, but I may for my review.I know for a fact the Surface Pro 2 in my hands right now can run all day using Logos , Word Pro, and OneNote together, and I feel absolutely no heat problem and hear no annoying fan. I know because I do it every day.
Agreed.
For those considering a SP2 for Logos use, please ask me any questions you like. I'll try to keep an eye on the forums.
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Vincent,
I owned the SP and had the SP2 for a trial. The SP ran much hotter to the touch than the SP2. I underline because the heat dissipates better on the SP2. It may run as hot or hotter in the benchmarks under load, but the key is whether or not you feel that heat.
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I just purchased a SP (1) recently, and I can honestly say that the heat has never been an issue. I couldn't be happier with it.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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I just purchased a SP (1) recently, and I can honestly say that the heat has never been an issue. I couldn't be happier with it.
[Y]
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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um....sorry....there is noticeable heat despite tweaking and there should be better way to kick the fan on. I notice it works when indexing, however.
Then I hear its working and thats reassuring.
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Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you are having an issue with heat. I have an SP2 and it's AWESOME!!! No heat problems whatsoever and I have been using it quite extensively. It has replaced my laptop and I use it for pretty much everything. Audio & Video editing included. It renders video and projects my presentations onto a video projection screen and onto hdmi large screen monitors. I have had no overheating issues thus far. This thing is a work-horse. I love it! Getting used to working with the small screen took some getting used to but by adjusting the fonts and sizing the apps compensates for that and is helpful. It's too bad the Logos Vyros app doesn't stretch like every other app does. It seems Logos products aren't optimized for touch. Even using a mouse to adjust the slide controls in each box is difficult. Mainly due to it's very tiny size, even on a larger monitor. But all of my other apps and programs all run flawlessly. What an awesome machine. It's just fantastic! Smartest purchase I've made so far this year. :-)
- Windows 8.1 Pro x64 Media Center
- AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-Core 2.5 GHz
- OCZ DDR2 8Gb
- Logos 5
- Proclaim
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Has anyone used the Surface Pro to run Logos 5 using a USB 3.0 docking station? One that gives two display outputs for multiple displays. One like this:
I just wondered how Logos runs with USB 3.0 graphics. They are quite expensive to just buy, if the user experience ends up being poor.
Blessings
Duncan
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Has anyone used the Surface Pro to run Logos 5 using a USB 3.0 docking station? One that gives two display outputs for multiple displays. One like this:
I just wondered how Logos runs with USB 3.0 graphics. They are quite expensive to just buy, if the user experience ends up being poor.
Blessings
Duncan
I used this (http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Universal-Notebook-Docking-Ethernet/dp/B002EREH74/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1396818561&sr=1-4&keywords=Kensington+Dock) With Win7 on a laptop with USB3 with acceptable results. I have no reason to suspect there would be problems with L5 operating under Win 8.1 with USB3.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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I have used a similar device but not this particular one. I have had no problems or issues using Logos or the other devices with a USB 2.0 or 3.0 protocol.
- Windows 10 Pro
- Surface Pro
- Logos Gold
- Proclaim
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