See this post by me today March 18. 2014: Features only purchase and/or new package set for egalitarian/ecumenical Protestants.
bump!
OK, so why did you bump this? Were you desperate for an answer? It seemed like in that other thread you were just reporting something you'd done already that you were pleased with. It doesn't seem to warrant any reply.
I just mean that I have a hard time recommending any other base-package. Verbum Foundations+ International which I also have can be worth something if You need the Church Fathers, it's a tremendous improvement over the previous Edition. Starter and Silver are two of the most worthless base-packages if not talking about Diamond which is even worse. The Reformed base-packages are bad choices, the only good thing about them is that Exegetical Summaries can be received for a smaller charge than the regular base-packages, but on the other hand I've only seen the purchase of just 1 one volume from it as necessary (Jude).
No base-package or Logos 5 Core Datasets are excellent options.
Why do you keep bumping this?
Because so many new base-packages are on an introductory sale right now, I don't recommend them.
One individual's lemon is an orange to someone else. To each their own. That is the beauty of Logos Bible software. They provide the tools for you to choose.
Think of it as a buffet, you get to pick and choose based on your taste. Right now I am having a fiesta. [:)]
OK, so you've said your piece. If people didn't see it the first time, when they see you "bumping" it they're going to think you are impatient for an answer. That is what "bump" usually means. If you are trying to convince people not to buy things that are currently on sale from Logos, then you are working against the company's best interests and they probably don't appreciate your use of the forums for that.
I wouldn't say that, the left over money from not buying, can be used on individual titles, collections, and pre-pubs. Trying to afford both big base-packages and additional purchases can be difficult. If You sink all Your money into a big base-package You have little choice left unless You are going to spend many thousands of $ during a lifetime:
If you are trying to convince people not to buy things that are currently on sale from Logos, then you are working against the company's best interests and they probably don't appreciate your use of the forums for that.
OK, fair enough, but to just keep bumping your thread because you feel it's too important to be overlooked is kind of rude. There are hundreds of posts every day and yours isn't any more important than all the others.
I will compensate by not posting at all during some periods.
A lament: there doesn't seem to be any Logos 5 specific book and package discussion forum. This forum has a lot of bug-reports but not much else. The General forum can be about any version.
Lynden is having a "fiesta" so let me respond to that: Yes, Logos has some software issues to deal with but look at what they have done already! I believe it's nothing more than amazing ... and Lynden is absolutely right, with Logos you have the choice to "pick and choose". To me, Logos Bible Software is a real blessing. I don't look at what is or might be wrong but concentrate on what is done right - and there's plenty around - for that, I am very grateful for such an amazing software. Thank you Logos. Keep up the excellent work! I am looking forward for what you have for us in the future. God bless you!
A lament: there doesn't seem to be any Logos 5 specific book and package discussion forum.
To me, this is a positive - not a negative. First, the Logos community is large and diverse. Books I think are trash are other peoples' gems. And books I think are critical to get into Logos formats others can't believe one would read by choice. Not knowing what others perfer keeps me honest - I don't judge them by the books they keep.
I know you both seek and offer advice - that's fine. That's part of the diversity of the community. But that doesn't mean I really want to read the same message from you over-and-over which is what a bump causes. If on the other hand, you have gone through the packages in detail and want to show why a particular package is unlikely to be useful to the general user/pastor and provide the supporting evidence, I'd be glad to read the posts.
Have you reviewed the Anglican, SDA and Reformed Base Packages?
And there are others coming. [[Hope they find something that you like]]
And Yes, ordering individual resources makes it a sure bet that you just might use everything in your Library.
But where is the fun if you know that all of your searches will agree with you? [:@]
If on the other hand, you have gone through the packages in detail and want to show why a particular package is unlikely to be useful to the general user/pastor and provide the supporting evidence, I'd be glad to read the posts.
I am afraid that you have opened up a can of worms. I expect many detailed posts to follow! [:P]
The Anglican base-packages had not been released when I posted.I'll see if I can find a bit of time to write some details. (A demanding hermeneutics class is soon starting but I don't yet have all the books for it as they gave the list only a week in advance.)
EDIT: my review of the Catholic base-packages has been posted on my profile since about mid-December 2013, it says that I value Verbum Foundations+ $160 beyond ECFs.
EDIT2: now I saw there are two new Lutheran base-packages. But those won't be interesting as I don't attend the liberal Lutheran Church just across the street.
The currency-exchange rate is rather bad at the moment, or else I might take L5 Anglican Bronze on a test-run. I'll see if it miraculously gets better before the sale ends. A better option still would be to wait for L6 Anglican Bronze. I'm curious about Goldingay's 1-2 Chron -volume in the Old Testament for Everyone -series. I see that a volume containing Proverbs and a couple of more books is coming out later, might want to pre-order that at AZ as printed matter. Pre-ordering the Old Testament for Everyone -series from Logos seems a bit expensive and would contain uninteresting volumes such as 1-2 Kings. So waiting for it to be split up is an option. What I don't like about L5 Anglican Bronze is having to pay for the New Testament for Everyone -series by N. T. Wright - I'm really not pleased how he promotes the New Pauline Perspective in it:
In: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/82787/580324.aspx#580324:
Unix my friend, you're running the risk of becoming a trumpet only capable of sounding one note. We get it. You don't like base packages. Its ok. Many of us do . We borrow an expression from the french: C'est la vie. Such is life.
What I don't like about L5 Anglican Bronze is having to pay for the New Testament for Everyone -series by N. T. Wright - I'm really not pleased how he promotes the New Pauline Perspective in it
Unix, anyone who writes a scholarly book about Paul today will have to interact with Wright and the New Perspective, so you too should be able to voice the arguments on both sides. It's just like when we talked about the Continental Genesis volumes, certainly there is more there than just the Documentary Hypothesis, but you refuse to read it because of that one aspect. N.T. Wright's works have so much more to offer than just promotion of the NPP. You will never know that because you refuse to read anything that has any element with which you disagree, and you are going to miss out on some wonderful literature.
Even Wright has moved beyond the NPP recently. I don't have the time or energy to study every theory, perspective and theology. Studying Paul is complicated enough as it is, I don't need to complicate the study further:
N.T. Wright's works have so much more to offer than just promotion of the NPP. You will never know that because you refuse to read anything that has any element with which you disagree, and you are going to miss out on some wonderful literature.
EDIT: I don't understand the value of adding this perspective, it would mean more costs by purchasing more books - most of them expensive.
Studying the original is best but most of us do not know Greek.
So we use the zillion English translations and they differ complicating the issue. [Define: zillion - some uncountable number]
Yes, adding in all the commentaries does complicate the issue. Good statement - thanks.
I don't have the time or energy to study every theory, perspective and theology. Studying Paul is complicated enough as it is,.
Unix, failing to study other perspectives is like being the two dimensional person that encounters the three dimensional ball.
failing to study other perspectives is like being the two dimensional person that encounters the three dimensional ball.
I have spent so many years choosing denominations.I will devote many years to uni studies, and I have a lot of books to read, search and make highlightings in. I have worked hard this Winter and Spring on narrowing down the areas of interest - if I would not have done that I would be in an emergency, I have to set aside money for transportation such as buying a car with the top-speed of 20 MPH and the garage for it - or if that's expensive and futile reserve the money for the distant future for replacing the moped I have when it's worn out, ... and tomorrow I have to pledge cash to a friend so that I can borrow her camera. I have no wiggle-room whatsoever in the budget for treats because during two years I've bought what I thought I could use and used up a large share of my money. Faithlife group: Creating a budget and canceling orders.
Everything he writes is not about the New Perspective on Paul. His books are a fountain of information. You are stuck on that one aspect, but that is not all there is.
Studying Paul is complicated enough as it is, I don't need to complicate the study further
I consider the purpose of study to be the finding of further complications[:)] When I have mastered one set of concepts, they uncover additional questions, That appears to be the history of humanity. "Purpose of study" is sadly missing from my Logos library in the meaning I sought.
See this post from a few minutes ago: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/48496/582634.aspx#582634 by Bryan Speer.And, several of You may have read the post, see: Old Testament Library - how I value older works on the New Testament.
Well, the biggest reasons why higher "regular" base-package that Logos offers are no good deals, is that for example Silver contains the 40-volume New American Commentary (NAC) (missing the Apocalypse=Revelations -volume) - which is interesting only if You are a Southern Baptist - and I'm no kind of Baptist (we do have Baptist Churches over here). Gold does include most of the volumes of UBS (Translator's) Handbooks which are really good - but most people will unfortunately never use the RSV and Good News Translation Bibles which the series is largely based on. Platinum contains many commentary sets, but a couple of the sets that were appealing to many (of which I happen to recommend almost no volumes, only Pillar Jude by Peter H. Davids) were dropped from L4 to L5 (and also Baker's New Testament Commentary (HK) (12 vols.) was dropped at some point), and of the remaining commentary sets none represent great value or quality other than perhaps as a huge mass of material for general ideas for sermon prep - but there are other ways to for that too. I do have a few of the Believer's Church Bible Commentary -volumes and will buy a couple more if I manage to find out which ones are good - but I'm also trying to sell my Mk -volume - not because it's that bad but because I've since bought AYBC NT (on a sale in Accordance) which contains the best commentary on Mk.
I'm continually informing about commentaries in a thread on Christanforums - many commentaries I've bought since the Autumn are going to be reviewed when I find time - which may not be until June 2014: Practical Commentary on Scripture ... others are more than welcome to contribute there! [:D]
So, as the price of the base-packages (except Starter and Bronze and most of the Verbum -packages) consist to such a large degree of modern commentary series, the money can be used to buy commentaries separately - and interesting upgrades (such as ICC - but the 6 vol. upgrade doesn't seem to be sold anymore, and Abingdon on Vyrso, plus NTL and OTL) continue to be released after the base-packages were put together by Logos:
Hi Unix
Just a couple of comments
the 40-volume New American Commentary (NAC) (missing the Apocalypse=Revelations -volume) - which is interesting only if You are a Southern Baptist
I find the NAC commentary series very helpful and I am not a Southern Baptist
Gold does include most of the volumes of UBS (Translator's) Handbooks which are really good - but most people will unfortunately never use the RSV and Good News Translation Bibles which the series is largely based on
I don't much use either the RSV or GNT but don't find this an issue when using UBS - which I agree is very helpful.
Trying to provide another perspective
Graham
See this brief post I wrote today, April 5. 2014: http://www.christianforums.com/t7808831-post65334493/#post65334493:
I never made it through flatland. I found it boring:Unix, failing to study other perspectives is like being the two dimensional person that encounters the three dimensional ball.
I consider the purpose of study to be the finding of further complications When I have mastered one set of concepts, they uncover additional questions,
EDIT: About base-packages in general, see these posts: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/74577/582859.aspx#582859.EDIT2, related, see also: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/83190/582977.aspx#582977.
Hi Unix Just a couple of comments the 40-volume New American Commentary (NAC) (missing the Apocalypse=Revelations -volume) - which is interesting only if You are a Southern Baptist I find the NAC commentary series very helpful and I am not a Southern Baptist Gold does include most of the volumes of UBS (Translator's) Handbooks which are really good - but most people will unfortunately never use the RSV and Good News Translation Bibles which the series is largely based on I don't much use either the RSV or GNT but don't find this an issue when using UBS - which I agree is very helpful. Trying to provide another perspective Graham
I did visit both of the Logos links however, and am sorry you feel dismissed. You can be challenging to work with (for me) and I struggle with what advice to offer you because your tastes are so foreign to me. I think perhaps that others may struggle to give you advice as well because we have a hard time putting a finger on just what you would actually like. FWIW I suspect people would have an equally hard time recommending commentaries to me as well. One day perhaps I will own all the commentaries (lol), and that may simplify things. Have you looked for guidance within your own tradition? have you asked professors? or perhaps the president of your school for a list of resources they recommend? Daniel Akin from my school has a list he puts out every year or two that he recommends.
We have a few different kinds of Baptist Churches to choose from, not many though:
I'm not sure how things are in Sweden, but from time spent in England, Paris, and France one baptist is not the same as another. In America we are way different theologically speaking than baptists in these countries. Though as we are still more conservative than english baptists (for instance - and not to say they are liberal by any means) you may be less interested.
It may be a bit troublesome to recommend me something - I'm not going to buy a large amount of books just because they are said to be good (sometimes the majority is wrong, I'm a non-conformist, although asking my own traditions is a good idea because that's not necessarily conforming to the prevalent Evangelical conservative scholarship), I neither have the funds for that right now and for some time, nor are there any commentary sets that I'm planning to buy, other than perhaps New Testament Text and Translation Commentary by Comfort - I'll see if I afford it on Tuesday/Wednesday April 8./9. on the store-wide sale (not Logos) or else I probably never buying it, it's consuming too much time to follow what sales there are on the Bible Study softwares and I have almost all my money on a savings account where the money is stuck and I'm aiming to save it for other things than books:You can be challenging to work with (for me) and I struggle with what advice to offer you because your tastes are so foreign to me.I think perhaps that others may struggle to give you advice as well because we have a hard time putting a finger on just what you would actually like....Have you looked for guidance within your own tradition? have you asked professors? or perhaps the president of your school for a list of resources they recommend?
Sure it's guessing, but also understanding - the way I study I approach several disciplines, so with the intention of grasping multiple perspectives I need books [in reply to "Theology is spiritual ...]:
Theology is spiritual theory. And theory is guessing:Also, sorry but I'm not going off site Unix
Also, sorry but I'm not going off site Unix
Anglican Bronze may be OK thanks to the inclusion of Old Testament for Everyone by Goldingay, but I would wait for L6.
His books on the technical background of Christianity are usually described as boring and not getting to the point until after many chapters. Who has time to read them? I know You devote a lot of time (if not full-time) for studies and preparing classes, Joseph and You have more educational background than I have. I still have a lot of classes to take:
His books are a fountain of information.
In another thread I asked what modern works Anglican Bronze contains, and received this reply:
https://www.logos.com/product/37757/anglican-bronze : currently $535 without dynamic pricing (with 15% off introductory offer) Includes: New Testament for Everyone Series (NT Wright): $200Old Testament for Everyone Series (John Goldingay): $105Lectionary Reflections Collection: $36Christ the Stranger: The Theology of Rowan Williams: $25Anglican Theology (Chapman): $30Several other recent volumes from T&T Clark Anglican Studies Collection and SPCK Anglican Studies Collection: about $60SPCK Prayer Collection: $50Twelve Months of Sundays: Reflections on Bible Readings (3 vols): $45Christian Origins and the Question of God Series (NT Wright): $170Paul: Fresh Perspectives: $17 Value of the above "current" works: $738
Includes: New Testament for Everyone Series (NT Wright): $200Old Testament for Everyone Series (John Goldingay): $105Lectionary Reflections Collection: $36Christ the Stranger: The Theology of Rowan Williams: $25Anglican Theology (Chapman): $30Several other recent volumes from T&T Clark Anglican Studies Collection and SPCK Anglican Studies Collection: about $60SPCK Prayer Collection: $50Twelve Months of Sundays: Reflections on Bible Readings (3 vols): $45Christian Origins and the Question of God Series (NT Wright): $170Paul: Fresh Perspectives: $17
Value of the above "current" works: $738
The Anglican parish over here, recommends these books included in Anglican Bronze:The Anglican Understanding of the Church by Paul Avis (currently not available individually in Logos)Anglicanism and the Christian Church: Theological Resources in Historical PerspectiveThe Study of Anglicanism (currently not available individually in Logos)Source: http://www.stockholmanglicans.se/page.asp?id=51&category=4 EDIT: some of the above few books are also recommended in the thread: http://www.christianforums.com/t7811998/... those would cost $64.95 + $46.95 if purchased outside base-packages. So they are more valuable than the ~$60 David J. Wilson suggested.So calculating the value myself and revising as above, the value of the Anglican Bronze base-package upgrade for me would be: $329. My price for upgrading is: $215.13 with the introductory 15% discount. So my discount is: (1-(215.13/329))*100 = 34½% compared to the current prices (some of them pre-pub).
Actually, I now noticed that all of these interesting books except Old Testament for Everyone and Paul: Fresh Perspectives are included in Anglican Starter.
Anglican Starter + Old Testament for Everyone on pre-pub would cost me $202.88.
I would miss Concise Oxford English Dictionary, 11th Edition (which is only needed for speed - it's more concise than Webster's and can be prioritized higher than it); and other resources that I would not get would be a few Reformation-Era Theology (Thomas Cranmer Collection (10 vols.), Lancelot Andrewes Collection (7 vols.), The Works of William Tyndale (3 vols.)), a few Biblical Studies (Justification: God’s Plan and Paul’s Vision, Following Jesus: Biblical Reflections on Discipleship, Scripture and the Authority of God).
So with Anglican Starter + Old Testament for Everyone on pre-pub, my discount is: (1-(202.88/312))*100 = 35%. I would not buy Paul: Fresh Perspectives, I now noticed it's by N. T. Wright.
EDIT: Another book is in the Bibliography of Encyclopedia of Christianity: The Anglican Tradition: A Handbook of Sources and included in Anglican Starter, (if I would buy it individually I could however negotiate the price down to $31.96). With that my discount would be calculated as: 41%.
Regarding the generic Bronze package, I may start using the following three items contained in it:
The generic Bronze is just about useful.Regarding Anglican, I'm going to wait for L7 as I've decided not to do any L6 upgrades (whenever they come and whatever they contain).Verbum - waiting for L8.
The school ordains you??
No. It's rather complicated. There are some who keep track of me, most importantly someone who is married to a student in my current classes this semester and the next.
Also included in Bronze: Sermons on Several Occasions by John Wesley. I asked the seniour lecturer today about important books and authors and he named Wesley although not a specific book.
(There seems to be two works around $30 each: Explanatory Notes upon the Old and New Testaments, Studies on the Life and Influence of John Wesley (16 vols.) (the latter on community pricing). I really don't know if either one would be a priority.)
She, the students, told me today that perhaps she would author a book after the studies. I had an idea which I was afraid of saying that perhaps I could co-author with her. I'm not sure where we would sit and do that. Neither of us seems to have come up with an idea for a book:
most importantly someone who is married to a student in my current classes this semester and the next.
I have wesley's notes. If you have something specific in mind I can post an excerpt.
I just wrote this post: What books did I get in L5 Bronze that are lacking in L6 Bronze?
I finalized my L6 purchase: Anglican Silver together with a bunch of other items:A couple of the prices. EDIT: clarification: I didn't get any Crossgrade and never have with previous versions either:... I had two Eerdmans Commentary volumes since before. Used to have one more (Philemon but sold it together with other items to luoar here from the forums. I now re-purchased two of the items: the Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (3 vols.) from the early '90s included in Anglican Silver, and the Hermeneia Lk 9:51-19:27 -volume). My Greek Studies Bundle Small price was $16.36.I did get custom discount on the last three items as well (SKU 15717, 17522, 17612) and probably on something more compared to the above pic, totalling $1,159.17, I hope I got a discount on the original ICC volume.(Now I'll just have to see if the internet starts in my a bit older, bigger low-budget laptop so that I can download. I'll have to connect to the internet less with it so that it doesn't stop functioning, it's a rather slow computer so installing everything from scratch would take some time and result in staying up unhealthily long nights. I also have an internet data cap.)
I discussed the Anglican base-packages prior to placing the order:Books in Silver that introduce Anglicanism if seminary program has started?And here are my final words and giving thanks about Anglican Silver: Thanks all who helped decide! Now a base-package owner
