OT 291: The Jewish Trinity

It would be nice to know ahead of time what the "required" reading resources are for any given course. The introduction/syllabus says that Platinum base package is recommended. I have Platinum AND THEN SOME (7500+ resources). However, there are two books that I still lack and together they equal almost twice the cost of the course.

I have always been provided with a detailed list of resources needed for coursework that I've taken in colleges, universities, etc., but not this time. There needs to be a way for us, the consumer/students, to know which resources are needed for each of these Mobile Ed courses BEFORE we purchase the course so that we can plan ahead in our purchases.

I do not have the extra finances currently to purchase the two books without putting them on a payment plan. Several have asked before for a detailed list of resources for each of the Mobile Ed courses and now I am adding my voice to that growing number. If the professor uses a resource in teaching, then list it UP FRONT in the description of the course or provide a list of resources via the syllabus in the Faithlife page for that particular course. Just let us know ahead of time what we will need to complete the readings.

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Comments

Kenneth Neighoff

It would be nice to have a reading list with the course or get a discount on resources that are needed to complete the course, if you don't have them.

I have almost 17,000 resources and still don't have some of the suggested readings for this course.

Miles Custis

Thank you both for your feedback. We try to limit our "Required Reading" links to resources that are in the Platinum base package so that users with Platinum can read all of the "Required Readings" for all Mobile Ed. courses. For the "See Also" readings we look for the most useful or relevant resources. For most courses we try to focus those "See Also" reading links by frequently linking to the most relevant resources. Due to the very specific and unique nature of the material in this course, however, we ended up linking to a lot of different resources only once. We are working to get the top resources or bundles added to the product pages.

For OT291, the resources that ended up being the most useful (and most frequently linked to) include the Faithlife Study Bible (which includes many articles related to course material written by Dr. Heiser himself), the Lexham Bible Dictionary (which also includes several relevant articles written by Dr. Heiser), the Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (not included in Platinum, but very applicable to the course content), and the New American Commentary series (included in Platinum).

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626969#Comment_626969

Thank you both for your feedback. We try to limit our "Required Reading" links to resources that are in the Platinum base package so that users with Platinum can read all of the "Required Readings" for all Mobile Ed. courses. For the "See Also" readings we look for the most useful or relevant resources. For most courses we try to focus those "See Also" reading links by frequently linking to the most relevant resources. Due to the very specific and unique nature of the material in this course, however, we ended up linking to a lot of different resources only once. We are working to get the top resources or bundles added to the product pages.

For OT291, the resources that ended up being the most useful (and most frequently linked to) include the Faithlife Study Bible (which includes many articles related to course material written by Dr. Heiser himself), the Lexham Bible Dictionary (which also includes several relevant articles written by Dr. Heiser), the Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (not included in Platinum, but very applicable to the course content), and the New American Commentary series (included in Platinum).

I added up other resources cited in the reading list that I don't have (I have Platinum+) and the total was $799.54 in additional resources (beyond the two I previously mentioned) and not including one that couldn't be found on the Logos website. I am all for learning how to use new resources and for having those resources available, but an additional $800 for one course is a bit much. Nothing against any of those resources because I think they would be great to have. I just wish I had known before hand (or even an idea of what is covered in those resources in the notes) so that I could get the full benefit of this course.

EDIT: The resources that I mentioned in my "complaint" are those listed in the reading list found in the Faithlife Study Group for OT291. I hadn't even checked to see if there were others mentioned in the syllabus.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626969#Comment_626969

Miles,

Thank you for your reply.

I posted what I did after looking at OT291 on my Ipad. Sometimes on it, readings show as locked, but on the desktop they show as resources I owe. The first one I saw had the code: MOE.

Some of the "see also" readings are specialized BAJ, and the Old Testament monograph series (Journal for the Study of the Old Testament Supplement Series 267) The Old Testament monograph series in on my wishlist for down the road.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for Logos Mobile Ed. I have enjoyed the courses I have looked at and used in my personal study.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626983#Comment_626983

I added up other resources cited in the reading list that I don't have (I have Platinum+)

Bill, I did not get this course so I am only asking. Is this a reading list or a bibliography? Certainly you don't have to have all the resources cited to get something meaningful from the course, do you?

Alex Bui

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/627021#Comment_627021

I found that the extra readings enhance my understanding/learning experience. It just likes reading the required readings before/after you go to the class. You get out more from the lecture than just listening to the lecture alone. I pray that the content development team has all the freedom to link any relevant books that will help the students. My wish is that we get good discounts on the books listed in the courses.

P.S. I too have to cut back on courses that I would like to take.

HansK

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/627035#Comment_627035

I am no passive user of the Mobile Education Series. I search in my library and often wonder: "Why isn't THAT in the reading list".

Following a course is not only "sitting and hearing" but actively anticipating and participating. IMHO.

Bill Shewmaker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/627021#Comment_627021

I added up other resources cited in the reading list that I don't have (I have Platinum+)

Bill, I did not get this course so I am only asking. Is this a reading list or a bibliography? Certainly you don't have to have all the resources cited to get something meaningful from the course, do you?

Matthew, no this is a reading list and not a bibliography. The resources are good resources and at some point, many of them will be purchased. They are for the "extra" reading to enhance what is available in the required reading list. One particular resource, "The Dictionary of Deities and Demons" was referenced multiple times (purchase price is $79). I do have a Bible College library a couple of hours away that I can utilize for some of these readings in paper if need be. One of the big $ resources is the Zondervan Encylopedia of the Bible...I'm basically "complaining" because the courses are advertised to be best met with the Platinum base package (and while they do fit into that description, there is missing information without ALL of the resources being available).

There is plenty of meaningful reading material in the Platinum package to adequately fulfill the course requirements. It is just frustrating to find out that not all reading can be fulfilled with existing Platinum resources during the course. I'm all for purchasing further Mobile Ed courses, but it would be nice to have a complete, detailed list of the resources and then decide if I needed/wanted to purchase additional material to enhance my study time.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/627243#Comment_627243

At the end of Segment 32 there is a "see also" reading item of:

Justin Martyr on Christ’s Role in the Exodus ANF1:AFJMICE

This is locked in my library but when Logos offers to show you the resource it says it does not exist. Can someone tell me which resource this is and suggest why I do not have it as I have all the Church Fathers stuff I can lay my hands on.

Clifford Kvidahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/628832#Comment_628832

At the end of Segment 32 there is a "see also" reading item of:

Justin Martyr on Christ’s Role in the Exodus ANF1:AFJMICE

This is locked in my library but when Logos offers to show you the resource it says it does not exist. Can someone tell me which resource this is and suggest why I do not have it as I have all the Church Fathers stuff I can lay my hands on.

Mike,

For me, it opens up Justin Martyr. “Dialogue of Justin with Trypho, a Jew.” The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. Edited by Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe. Vol. 1. The Ante-Nicene Fathers. Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885.

This appears to be the Catholic Edition of this resource.

Does this help?

Cliff

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/628833#Comment_628833

Many thanks for this, it does indeed help.

I would be interested why the link only opens the Roman edition not the Protestant one as it is my understanding there is little difference, I would have thought that the link should do both . I have the Roman version as well as the Protestant one but I have hidden it to avoid duplication in searches etc.

Stephen McCracken

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/626969#Comment_626969

Thank you both for your feedback.

Miles, one of the "see also" in unit 6 is to the Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (IVP) 1st edition. When I purchased the 2nd edition I had hidden the 1st edition, but I had to unhide it to use the link. I am just thinking of users who only have the 2nd edition that a link to both editions need to be given.

Apart form that I love the format of this kind of course. I just wish I could afford some more!!

Miles Custis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/630978#Comment_630978

Stephen, it looks like the 2 editions of DJG are very different. Both articles that are linked to in OT291 (the articles on "Logos" and "Old Testament in the Gospels") are written by different people and have different content in the two editions. Because of that, I'm not sure linking to both editions would always be ideal since the article in one edition might relate to the speaker's content better than the article in the other edition. Since the first edition contains content not found in the second edition, I'd recommend keeping it unhid.

Stephen McCracken

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/631071#Comment_631071

Thank you Miles, that's helpful.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/631071#Comment_631071

Stephen, it looks like the 2 editions of DJG are very different. Both articles that are linked to in OT291 (the articles on "Logos" and "Old Testament in the Gospels") are written by different people and have different content in the two editions. Because of that, I'm not sure linking to both editions would always be ideal since the article in one edition might relate to the speaker's content better than the article in the other edition. Since the first edition contains content not found in the second edition, I'd recommend keeping it unhid.

Are you able to set out why the other link is to the Roman Church fathers edition only?

Miles Custis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/631143#Comment_631143

I've added a new link to the Protestant edition in that transcript file. I'm not sure when the resource itself will be updated though. If you are wondering, the link goes to Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho 75.

I've also already uploaded the updated Notes file to the course Faithlife page found here: https://faithlife.com/ot291/documents

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/631159#Comment_631159

I've added a new link to the Protestant edition in that transcript file. I'm not sure when the resource itself will be updated though. If you are wondering, the link goes to Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho 75.

I've also already uploaded the updated Notes file to the course Faithlife page found here: https://faithlife.com/ot291/documents

What a nice man.

Scott Lamb

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/631162#Comment_631162

In segment 28 of the course it has hyperlinks to the Apocalypse of Abraham. The hyperlinks do not work for me. What is the title of the resource that the hyperlinks are linked to?

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/643396#Comment_643396

In segment 28 of the course it has hyperlinks to the Apocalypse of Abraham. The hyperlinks do not work for me. What is the title of the resource that the hyperlinks are linked to?

https://www.logos.com/product/5746/old-testament-pseudepigrapha

The Old Testament

Pseudepigrapha

volume 1

edited by

James H. Charlesworth

Scott Lamb

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/643407#Comment_643407

Thanks Mike,

I have that resource. I do not know why the hyperlink did not work for it.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/627243#Comment_627243

There is plenty of meaningful reading material in the Platinum package to adequately fulfill the course requirements. It is just frustrating to find out that not all reading can be fulfilled with existing Platinum resources during the course. I'm all for purchasing further Mobile Ed courses, but it would be nice to have a complete, detailed list of the resources and then decide if I needed/wanted to purchase additional material to enhance my study time.

I am thankful that the suggested readings extend beyond just what is in the platinum package. This leads me to a broader exposure to the topic than just what is included in the base package. Some publishers are less inclined to have their material included in base packages, such as Zondervan. Yes it can be disappointing if I don't own the resource(s) in question and the cost to purchases these resources is beyond my budget.

Another issue with Logos saying they will limit reading lists to only resources in a base package is what happens when the base package is revised, such as when a new version of the software is released, and some of the recommended or suggested readings are in resources that are removed from the base package ? Should the course be re-written just so that people who didn't own the previous version of the base package are not put out by those resources no longer being in the base package ? I am comfortable with what is being done currently with m.ED. courses and the recommended and suggested readings. And for a specialist topic we have to expect there to be readings beyond the standard platinum package.

Matthew Langlois

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/668476#Comment_668476

There is plenty of meaningful reading material in the Platinum package to adequately fulfill the course requirements. It is just frustrating to find out that not all reading can be fulfilled with existing Platinum resources during the course. I'm all for purchasing further Mobile Ed courses, but it would be nice to have a complete, detailed list of the resources and then decide if I needed/wanted to purchase additional material to enhance my study time.

I am thankful that the suggested readings extend beyond just what is in the platinum package. This leads me to a broader exposure to the topic than just what is included in the base package. Some publishers are less inclined to have their material included in base packages, such as Zondervan. Yes it can be disappointing if I don't own the resource(s) in question and the cost to purchases these resources is beyond my budget.

Another issue with Logos saying they will limit reading lists to only resources in a base package is what happens when the base package is revised, such as when a new version of the software is released, and some of the recommended or suggested readings are in resources that are removed from the base package ? Should the course be re-written just so that people who didn't own the previous version of the base package are not put out by those resources no longer being in the base package ? I am comfortable with what is being done currently with m.ED. courses and the recommended and suggested readings. And for a specialist topic we have to expect there to be readings beyond the standard platinum package.

I am comfortable with what has been said above.