NEW: LT161 Logos Academic Training for Logos 6
Our newest pre-pub is posted!
LT161 Logos Academic Training for Logos 6
Learn how to use Logos 6 to its fullest potential with the help of certified trainer Morris Proctor. He guides you step-by-step through the features of Logos that will save you time and improve the quality of your academic research, personal Bible study, and sermon preparation.
Comments
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Two hundred bucks for training that should be provided in the cost of the software. (Perhaps that is a bit unfair. This is aftermarket training. The real problem is, there isn't anything between Logos and the aftermarket training except a few introductory-type videos and a bunch of selfless volunteers in the forums.)
Good for Mo!
Bad for the customer.
Can I get my seven thousand dollars back?
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Thank you Celeste! For those of us newbies who do not have the time or funds to make a trip to camp logos this could be a good alternative.
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When you purchase a base package or several base packages like I have and many others, this type of training should be included with the software.
No Users manual!
No basic training of any in depth quality!
You spend thousands on a base package and then have to spend hundreds more to learn how to use it.
Faithlife needs to hire someone to be their in house trainer to provide free quality training for how to use their software imho.
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I have mixed feeling about these prices. I would agree that with our large investments in libraries we should get some training. I think Logos does post some fairly good intro level user information.
If you buy a new car you will get a user manual. It will be fairly brief as well. If you want to go to a class to learn to drive you will almost always have to pay for that. I think Range Rover will allow a new owner to attend a course in California for free to learn how to off-road but they are an exception.
If you buy a new home you will probably get manuals for the fridge and washers and so on. You will not get carpentry and plumbing classes for free. You are not going to a local 4 star chef come by to give you a day long course in how to cook in your new kitchen; well not unless you pay for it.
The idea of buying something expensive and therefore including free training... Not sure?
I do have a technical question about this training. How does it compare to the 8 hour training (now $150 or so) just released that goes over what is new in Logos 6? Wonder if there is going to be a lot of repetition?
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I agree that this training should be included with base packages - at least those of Silver or Gold and above.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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This continues to be an issue for many of us. And will continue to be an issue. There are various ways to include such training in certain base packages that would still financially benefit Morris Proctor. Until they do, I suspect the issue will continue...
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We've heard your feedback, and we agree.
Did you know Logos 6 comes with the Logos 6 Quickstart (28 videos)? It's a video resource within Logos. You can find it in your library.
We also have a person on staff whose job is producing high-quality training videos for Logos 6, and we're expanding his team to do even more. Have you seen the work he's produced? Does this meet your needs? What else would you like to see? The plan is to be putting out one new video a day.
We're working on some updates to the homepage that will expose all of this training video content right inside the software.
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Hi Phil,
Thank You for the You Tube channel link!
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I can't buy into the analogies that compare the purchase of sophisticated software to the purchase of a car or a house. There are very few people who have the means to purchase cars and houses who don't know how to use them. Software is something different entirely. Even Faithlife recognizes the issue as the following excerpt from https://blog.logos.com/2008/03/learn_logos_bible_software/ acknowledges:
"...really taking full advantage of what Logos has to offer takes time and effort. And that can be a daunting task for the average person."
I simply don't understand the business strategy of not providing free (or at least reasonably priced), quality, downloadable, in-depth training material. What will more motivate customers to purchase additional resources, invest in bigger bundles, and recommend Logos to others, than reaping good fruit from the software? And what will more enable customers to reap that good fruit, than knowing how to make good use of the software?
Perhaps I'm way off base in regard to the size of the customer base for Logos. Perhaps I'm also way off base regarding the cost to produce training materials. But assuming even 10,000 customers willing to pay $50 for quality, downloadable, in-depth training, that would amount to half a million that could be put into training materials.
Maybe I'm a statistical outlier on the bell curve here, but I've pretty much reached the limit of the investment in Logos that I can even attempt to justify until I develop some serious proficiency with it. I am thankful for the Logos software and I do appreciate the incredible amount of time, thought, effort, and technical expertise that go into producing it. I am grateful for the training videos that are available to get you started. But without the help I've already received on the forums (and count on receiving down the road), I would not have invested nearly as much in Logos as I have to date. And I'm now at the point that without the type of training materials noted in paragraph two above, I just can't see being able to justify additional significant purchases or upgrades.
I know it's just my opinion, but it seems to me that by not providing these training materials that Faithlife is missing a significant win-win opportunity.
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Phil Gons said:
We've heard your feedback, and we agree.
Did you know Logos 6 comes with the Logos 6 Quickstart (28 videos)? It's a video resource within Logos. You can find it in your library.
We also have a person on staff whose job is producing high-quality training videos for Logos 6, and we're expanding his team to do even more. Have you seen the work he's produced? Does this meet your needs? What else would you like to see? The plan is to be putting out one new video a day.
We're working on some updates to the homepage that will expose all of this training video content right inside the software.
Phil,
Thanks for your post. I have gone through the Quickstart videos--they do help get one started and it's great to have access to them from within Logos. Definitely a step in the right direction. I hope there are more in-depth videos to come. I have not yet seen the videos in your other link. Will check them out.
Again, thanks for your post.
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Phil Gons said:
Does this meet your needs?
No, it does not. Videos have their use, but you can't search a video and go precisely at the time index that would address specifically what you want. Videos must by nature be short and can only cover so much ground and yet, they are time-consuming to watch because you have to watch a whole segment even if you only want one precise piece of information in it. When they cover more ground, the problem is worse: it's too long to watch the whole thing and even a worse process to find what you want. Then later, if the information is not remembered, one has to watch the whole thingy again. Additionally, it is not always possible to watch a video in order to check how to do something (for instance while in class).
No, nothing replaces a good, well-designed, comprehensive and searchable help file or a manual in resource format.
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Delete.
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My personal take on the documentation. Faithlife is receiving enough input from enough sources that I am confident that any new documentation will contain the details we need. I am also confident that the users will be sufficiently impatient that it will be difficult for Faithlife to withhold documentation until it is appropriated vetted. And I am certain that the user base is so diverse that a significant portion of users will still be unhappy with the documentation ... at the same time that, if they were satisfied, another similarly sized significant portion of users would be unhappy
If you read a broad swath of posts in the forum you will discover a large number of questions in the form of "can I do ..." where simply trying it would answer their question. This class represents my sister. At the other extreme are people who try very complex queries and ask "hmmm ... anyone have a clue as to how to interpret my results" This class is much closer to myself. There are users who are interested in finding the most efficient way to do x, others who want to do x with as little change to their workflow as possible, those who want to do x in the simplest possible manner i.e. requiring the least new knowledge.
So lets give Faithlife and forum readers a break ... we know we'll hear a hue and cry when we receive some of the newer documentation ... no reason to chew our cud until then.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Phil Gons said:
We also have a person on staff whose job is producing high-quality training videos for Logos 6, and we're expanding his team to do even more. Have you seen the work he's produced? Does this meet your needs? What else would you like to see? The plan is to be putting out one new video a day.
As you know Phil, I like Todd's work. However, what we need is:
- A comprehensive structured tutorial video 'course' that teaches the whole of Logos to a reasonable depth (i.e. Camp Logos).
- Clear written reference materials (i.e. a Logos resource to replace the help file that explain the 'how' and 'why', not just the 'what').
- Regular short video/blog tutorials that either:
- Give power tips that go beyond the scope of normal documentation.
- Are task-based, and show how several features of the software can be combined within a particular task.
Ideally, (1) and (2) should be integrated into a MobileEd style resource. (3) Should be part of the blog, but every few months then the most useful videos/posts could be integrated into the Logos resource as a free update.
What we don't have in Logos, is anything like this: https://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help - and that's badly in need of updating for Logos 6.
In my opinion, there should be a documentation/tutorial team within Logos, just as there's a marketing team, and all sorts of other teams.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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"Yes!" to everything Mark noted.
Also worth a lot of points on my satisfaction scoreboard is that the training materials not require an internet connection to use/view. I.e. Preferably that the materials can be accessed from within Logos without an internet connection (just like my library resources), although having a web site from which the materials could be downloaded for subsequent offline access would be OK.
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Hey Soldier of Christ (DocB)...I totally agree.
RA and others in this string...you are spot on!!!!
[:)]
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Very good, Mark.
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Francis said:
Very good, Mark.
Yes, Mark summed up very well my thoughts on where Faithlife needs to go with documentation and videos.
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I agree with Mark. Spot on!
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MJ. Smith said:
So lets give Faithlife and forum readers a break ... we know we'll hear a hue and cry when we receive some of the newer documentation ... no reason to chew our cud until then.
Moo. Why buy the cow (current training resource offerings) when you can get the milk (proposed manuals and training videos) for free?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Phil, thanks for responding.
Phil Gons said:Did you know Logos 6 comes with the Logos 6 Quickstart (28 videos)?
Yes. Videos are NOT a manual. These are well done and helpful, but they are not the kind of training that is needed.
Phil Gons said:What else would you like to see?
I'll go slow. M. A. N. U. A. L.
I like paper, so I can sit it in my lap while I figure out how to do stuff on the software. Having Logos open on the screen, and a manual open on the screen doesn't fit so well. I realize printing is expensive, and electronic publication is less so, and I can print what I need. But I can't print what doesn't exist.
Phil Gons said:The plan is to be putting out one new video a day.
The bus is stuck in the mud, and this is the equivalent of spinning the wheels faster. You'll throw mud a lot farther, but you'll still be stuck.
Here's a tip: Every time the marketing team comes up with some slick new idea about how Logos can "revolutionize your bible study", make a resource that clearly explains, step-by-step, how to do it. If you can't explain it to the (very) average user, then don't advertise it as available to the masses. Another tip: Look in the forums, and every time you see a post where one of the MVPs demonstrates how to do something that nobody else could figure out how to do, write it up. That is the kind of training resource content that is needed. Mark alluded to one example of this above. Others have also given good examples.
Again, I appreciate the acknowledgement of a response. I've been flagellating this deceased equine for a couple years now, and I'm starting to see some results. I hope.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Doc B said:
Phil, thanks for responding.
Phil Gons said:Did you know Logos 6 comes with the Logos 6 Quickstart (28 videos)?
Yes. Videos are NOT a manual. These are well done and helpful, but they are not the kind of training that is needed.
Phil Gons said:What else would you like to see?
I'll go slow. M. A. N. U. A. L.
I like paper, so I can sit it in my lap while I figure out how to do stuff on the software. Having Logos open on the screen, and a manual open on the screen doesn't fit so well. I realize printing is expensive, and electronic publication is less so, and I can print what I need. But I can't print what doesn't exist.
Phil Gons said:The plan is to be putting out one new video a day.
The bus is stuck in the mud, and this is the equivalent of spinning the wheels faster. You'll throw mud a lot farther, but you'll still be stuck.
Here's a tip: Every time the marketing team comes up with some slick new idea about how Logos can "revolutionize your bible study", make a resource that clearly explains, step-by-step, how to do it. If you can't explain it to the (very) average user, then don't advertise it as available to the masses. Another tip: Look in the forums, and every time you see a post where one of the MVPs demonstrates how to do something that nobody else could figure out how to do, write it up. That is the kind of training resource content that is needed. Mark alluded to one example of this above. Others have also given good examples.
Again, I appreciate the acknowledgement of a response. I've been flagellating this deceased equine for a couple years now, and I'm starting to see some results. I hope.
Thanks for the feedback. The reason I was video-centric in my response was that this was the topic of this thread. The complaints I saw seemed to be that video content like this should be available for free. So I responded to highlight the free video content we have and are producing.
I support better documentation and am open to the idea of an official manual. I'll discuss this with the team and see if we can get a plan in place to address these concerns.
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Phil Gons said:
I support better documentation and am open to the idea of an official manual. I'll discuss this with the team and see if we can get a plan in place to address these concerns.
Thanks Phil. Please do make sure that you offer it as an actual "resource" within Logos/Verbum that can be searched, highlighted, etc. (even if you produce it in other formats as well, like print, PDF, or the current Help File format).
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Fr Devin Roza said:Phil Gons said:
I support better documentation and am open to the idea of an official manual. I'll discuss this with the team and see if we can get a plan in place to address these concerns.
Thanks Phil. Please do make sure that you offer it as an actual "resource" within Logos/Verbum that can be searched, highlighted, etc. (even if you produce it in other formats as well, like print, PDF, or the current Help File format).
[Y]
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I just read what Mr. Gons wrote and fell off my chair (gasping in hope that it might be free)!
[Y]
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[quote user="Francis"]
Very good, Mark.
[/quote]
Blessings in Christ.
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Phil Gons said:Doc B said:
Phil, thanks for responding.
Phil Gons said:Did you know Logos 6 comes with the Logos 6 Quickstart (28 videos)?
Yes. Videos are NOT a manual. These are well done and helpful, but they are not the kind of training that is needed.
Phil Gons said:What else would you like to see?
I'll go slow. M. A. N. U. A. L.
I like paper, so I can sit it in my lap while I figure out how to do stuff on the software. Having Logos open on the screen, and a manual open on the screen doesn't fit so well. I realize printing is expensive, and electronic publication is less so, and I can print what I need. But I can't print what doesn't exist.
Phil Gons said:The plan is to be putting out one new video a day.
The bus is stuck in the mud, and this is the equivalent of spinning the wheels faster. You'll throw mud a lot farther, but you'll still be stuck.
Here's a tip: Every time the marketing team comes up with some slick new idea about how Logos can "revolutionize your bible study", make a resource that clearly explains, step-by-step, how to do it. If you can't explain it to the (very) average user, then don't advertise it as available to the masses. Another tip: Look in the forums, and every time you see a post where one of the MVPs demonstrates how to do something that nobody else could figure out how to do, write it up. That is the kind of training resource content that is needed. Mark alluded to one example of this above. Others have also given good examples.
Again, I appreciate the acknowledgement of a response. I've been flagellating this deceased equine for a couple years now, and I'm starting to see some results. I hope.
Thanks for the feedback. The reason I was video-centric in my response was that this was the topic of this thread. The complaints I saw seemed to be that video content like this should be available for free. So I responded to highlight the free video content we have and are producing.
I support better documentation and am open to the idea of an official manual. I'll discuss this with the team and see if we can get a plan in place to address these concerns.
Nice [Y]
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I agree with your stated request Mark! BTW, I love the tutorial videos that you produced some time ago...hint, hint!
Thanks,
Terry
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At last, an encouraging development with regard to written documentation in Logos. By making it a searchable resource in 6.1 there is already net gain. It is nice not only to be able to use inline searching but also the side TOC:
The release notes state "We are in the process of updating the Help with more comprehensive information, at a later date". This is something to look forward to, hopefully soon.
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