Lack of serious effort

As I have seen and read from other posts, I appreciate Logos for allowing me to be able to watch the growth of the Mac version of this new direction in Logos for Mac. That said, I do not see the kind of serious effort being expended. With progress coming in small steps, it appears that the Mac version may well be many, many months away from being a credible application.

I believe the fine folks at Logos have simply not made the kind of effort available to the Mac community to bring this much needed work forward. With the awesome power of the Mac platform and the growth of same, management at Logos should have found a way to be more competent in this task than they have shown.

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Pat Flanakin

Last I read, Mr. Pritchett stated in December 2009 that within 6 months, the Mac version should be up and comparable to the windows version.

With more users on the Windows side vs. Mac side, it is a resources question, not an effort question per se.

Patience, patience...

I am a Mac user as well.

Frank Sauer

This is not meant to be taken the wrong way... That said, it is really frustrating that Logos gets so many poor comments like this from the Mac community. I am the first to say point out issues with the program so that it can be made better. Team Logos has more than shown that they listen and act on the feedback of the users. That said, it is an incorrect statement that there is no effort for the Mac user...

Bob, Bradley, Phil, George, Melissa and all the other members that have spent months, weeks, days and hours in these forums answering questions, keeping users up to date and the whole team trying to get the greatest bible study tool on the market for both Windows and Mac almost simultaneously... While I can understand the extreme desire for a Mac platform, common business sense says you get the platform up and running that pays your business operational expenses. That would be the PC Version.

While I do not know the Logos percentage breakdown between users of PC and Mac, even if it were double the market share that Mac is in the computer industry, 20% is not going to get the same attention as 75% percent... I think the Mac users should give Logos some credit for even working this fast on the Mac version. Most companies would leave it as an after thought until all functions were complete and bug free on the PC Version...

Wilder Bailey

I abandoned the earlier Mac work done by Logos as I felt the finished Mac version was poorly implemented by Logos, and not at all what the Mac platform was capable of supporting.

I am also remembering that what we are dealing with here is a resource to assist me and countless others in growing in the Lord's Word. I am patient, but do not want to see this end result poorly finished as the first one.

Wes Saad

With progress coming in small steps, it appears that the Mac version may well be many, many months away from being a credible application.

There is some truth in this but it is not a surprise, nor does it go against what Logos has stated. Software development *always* takes place in a series of small steps. Nonetheless, we've seen some real improvements to the Mac version since its first Alpha (make sure you note that - Alpha, not Beta) version.

Software development takes time. Nothing happens overnight. Logos has several staff members dedicated to Mac development and they are trying to acquire more (note the Jobs section of their website). From where I stand it looks like development of the Mac version is going a little slower than I originally anticipated, but for myself I am satisfied with the progress I see being made.

Wes Saad

Last I read, Mr. Pritchett stated in December 2009 that within 6 months, the Mac version should be up and comparable to the windows version.

I believe the expectation was that within 6 months it would be quite usable, though not up to par with the windows version. And he made us promise not to hold him to that.

J.R. Miller

Thanks for sharing your judgements on the work ethic of the Mac developers Mr. Basiley. While everyne, including Bob Pritchett of Logos would agree that mistakes were made in the 1.x version of Logos for mac (see the Mac disclaimer page), those who have been watching this round of development have seen a very different approach with Logos 4 for mac. Everything this time is "in house" and Logos is still hiring more Mac developers as we type. If you have some specific questions on the work being done in L4mac and how that relates to the L4windows version, please feel free to ask questions. If you want to help make things better and move forword toward a successful project, please feel free to download L4mac and join those of use who are bug hunting and working to support the Mac developers.

Todd Frazier Michaels

The Alexandrian approach: I'm going back to a 300$ HP netbook. Everything I have been told from every angle has been outright wrong. I bought paralells for the explicit purpose, and with assurances and that there would be no problems running Logos 4. Wrong. I can't even install it. There is no option that I can find for changing where the app installs to. So, it tries to install to a drive that doesn't exist. Still waiting for the actual discs.

I was told how great mac was. Great for watching beachballs and bleeding out cash to a company stuck in a scarcity mentality. 'Its a great company' Really? I don't get it.

Don't get me wrong. Windows works, poorly, but at least it does work.

So, no offense if I have less than stellar expectations from Logos. I definitely won't hold him to it for the sake of charity if nothing else. If the netbook doesn't work I will hopefully be 3 grand wiser and save my coworkers some time and expense. Back to scratching my head over paper, and maybe God want the money to go to the poor. Maybe that is the real lesson. 3 gs? What was I thinking. Maybe sinful extravagance. Consequences. Noted. God bless.

Rich DeRuiter

The Alexandrian approach: I'm going back to a 300$ HP netbook

Logos4 is not designed to work on a Netbook. But it could, if it meets the system requirements listed below.

http://www.logos.com/support/techfaq#sysreqs

Terry Poperszky

Everything I have been told from every angle has been outright wrong. I bought paralells for the explicit purpose, and with assurances and that there would be no problems running Logos 4. Wrong. I can't even install it.

Computers suck when they don't do what you want them to. I know the frustration you are experiencing because I am responsible for many, many computers. Take a deep breath, grab a coke, see a movie. Get away from the problem for awhile. When the frustration level goes down, start working with the technical support groups for the products you are having problems with. Take it slowly, when the frustrations start to raise, take another break.

I use a Mac, I use Fusion and I have used Parallels, I use L4Win and L4Mac just like a lot of other people with no problems that can't be over come. Michael, you can too, and there are a lot of people that will devote a lot of time on this forum to making sure that you can. If there is anything I can do to help you, just email me at help2010@poperszky.org.

Rom

I was pretty ticked off that I paid more than I should have for Logos 3 (Mac). Not going to sugarcoat it -- and I won't, but I basically feel like I bought abandon-ware.

However Logos 4 seems to be developing quite nicely IMHO for Mac. It's nowhere near the L4 Windows version (itself not exactly the epitome of stability nor responsiveness) -- but it's getting to the point where I can fire it up and use it as more than a mere curiousity. In fact, the passage guide on Alpha9 seems to run faster(?) than my Vista box with virtually identical system specs to my MacBook Pro. Of course Vista does seem to slow down my PC considerably more than OS X slows down my Mac. So be that as it may.

From Thanksgiving -> Now has been a little more than a month. From Alpha5 to Alpha9 has been a HUGE improvement in L4 Mac and I'm pleased to see the direction it's going.

At this rate sometime in February I might not have to fire up my Windows machine

Jack Caviness

I was pretty ticked off that I paid more than I should have for Logos 3 (Mac). Not going to sugarcoat it -- and I won't, but I basically feel like I bought abandon-ware.

I can identify with your first sentence here. I felt the same way and expressed my low opinion Logos Mac 1 (Not 3) on these forums. However, I would not call L1.2.2 "Abandon-ware". Logos had been working of a Mac version for a few years. L1 Mac was based on old technology to get a usable Mac version out the door. I did not like it, but many Mac users did. L4 Mac is a logical upgrade to L 1.2.2, and this path was stated several months ago by Bob Pritchett, CEO of Logos. You could update to L4 Mac and/or Windows without cost, but you would not have some of the enhanced resources that came with the upgrade packages. BTW, the upgrade prices are super deals.

It's nowhere near the L4 Windows version

Not yet. But both versions share the same bas code and will therefore operate alike. The Mac Development Team is now hard at work writing the interface code to make the system work on the Mac. And, as you said, they are making remarkable progress. While I complained about L1 Mac, I am excited about L4 Mac.

Rom

I agree with you 90% of the way. I don't think 1.2.2 of Logos Mac is anything that I would have represented as Logos for Mac. Call it something else if they wish, but someone using Logos 3 for Windows would probably be mortified that the Mac version cost the same (at least it was when I bought it). Just because they threw a Windows license with it doesn't really mean much to me -- as I'm a Mac user, and only recently have been using Logos on a Windows box.

Anyhow, be that as it may -- I did purchase the Logos 4 upgrade -- and I upgraded my collection to Scholar Silver. It is a fantastic bargain, and watching the Mac version progress (I use L4 on Windows primarily) has been encouraging.

I still don't feel like I got my money's worth with Logos 1 for Mac, but I think Logos 4 Mac will be worth the struggles we've gone through as Mac users. It has already been a blessing for my studies and teaching [:)]

Bob Pritchett

That said, I do not see the kind of serious effort being expended.

Well, clearly you aren't walking through our offices very often. :-)

The Mac represents around 10% of our user base right now. Exactly 30% of our application development team is working (exclusively) on the Mac. (Plus one part-time intern, who is also on the Mac.)

We are sharing code from Windows to the Mac; a reason for the slower progress of the "visible" parts of the app is that we're finding / fixing / working-around issues in the cross-platform framework. This is getting stable, though, and more energy can be given to the surface-level interface, etc.

Michael Kares

Keep up the good work! I appreciate the effort being expended, and the opportunity to help test the Mac version. I like getting my hands dirty and testing things out.

Blessings

Matthew C Jones

If the netbook doesn't work I will hopefully be 3 grand wiser and save my coworkers some time and expense. Back to scratching my head over paper, and maybe God want the money to go to the poor. Maybe that is the real lesson. 3 gs? What was I thinking. Maybe sinful extravagance. Consequences. Noted.

You totally amaze me! If you tried to run any Bible software on a $300 Mac (is there such a pitiful puppy around? [&] ) you would be hard pressed to keep up with your head scratching and pencil studies. Why be so unfair to Logos? It is not just a Bible reader. Logos is a massive and powerful study tool.

Most Christians appear to have no problem paying for subscription TV services that constantly bombard them with violations of Godly standards. Many Christians will go into debt for an extravagant automobile or brand name clothes. We should rather defer to spend our money on tools that will better equip us to minister to the church and share the gospel. I am all for selling material possessions that were designed strictly for pleasure, ease & comfort. If you look around you may find better candidates for your jettison campaign.

Kelsey Branum

Bob,

Thanks for the efforts that you are exerting in order to get the Mac version out there. Looking forward to a great product. Blessings to you and your staff!

Jack Caviness

The Mac represents around 10% of our user base right now. Exactly 30% of our application development team is working (exclusively) on the Mac. (Plus one part-time intern, who is also on the Mac.)

Bob

I know that in the past (prior to the release of L1 Mac) I complained (whined) about the lack of communication, but that is definitely not a problem since the release of L4 [8-|]. We really appreciate your willingness to take the time to participate in these forums. We also appreciate the input from the Mac Development Team. The progress on L4 Mac has been nothing short of amazing and encouraging. Thank you. [Y]