NT331 missing resource: Encountering the Book of Romans by Moo
This resource is not in my library, nor is it available in Logos. The resources is referenced in "See Also" at the end of many of the lessons. The abbreviation shows EBT:TS and when it is clicked on Logos says i do not have a license for it, and when you click on the logos.com link to get it from logos it shows that it is not available in Logos. I googled the very long file name listed and gound this resource on Biblia.com:
If I enter the title "Encountering the Book of Romans i do get this page in logos, but the link in the course does not take me to this resource.
https://www.logos.com/product/45065/encountering-the-book-of-romans-2nd-ed
Please let me know if this is a linking error, or which of these resources I should use.
P.S.
I've run into the exact same problem with another resource. It is on biblia.com here:
and when the title i found in that link i typed into logos search i find this page:
https://www.logos.com/product/31422/justification-and-variegated-nomism
but the link in the course does not take me anywhere.
And yet another resource listed in the course as FA:EDJ and on the page that says it doesn't exist it give the file name RCSFAITH. I am unable to find this anwhere on the web.
And yet another one: listed in the reading as GU:HRT and file name RCSGRACE can't find these anywhere.
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Under the "See Also" assignments you should see two links to EBR:TS for the same reading. One link is for Encountering the Book of Romans, 2nd edition, which Logos currently sells; the other is for a previous version of the resource that has the same readings, which Logos no longer sells. You'll be fine if you buy the one currently for sale.
I don't know why the link doesn't work for Justification and Variegated Nomism, but the product link you have is the correct one.
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Thank you, Pam.
I must confess to being very surprised and disappointed in this course. I expect that when I pay hundreds od dollarsa for a resource that it won't have literally hundreds of bad links. The EBR:TS resource is linked once or twice in almost every single unit. Many of the other resources above also are linked multiple times. How can this course have been out for over a year and still have all these bad links?
John
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They aren't really "bad links", they are the links for users who own the first edition which is no longer sold. The intent is to not require students to update volumes when it is not necessary to do so.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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John Kaess said:
expect that when I pay hundreds od dollarsa for a resource that it won't have literally hundreds of bad links.
To expand further on MJ's answer, the problem is not that there are hundreds of bad links in the course.
The problem is that you don't own the resources that are linked to and those resources aren't available for sale individually. There's a feature in Logos that displays a 'help' page when you click on a resource that you don't own, and helps you to purchase it. But that feature doesn't work if (a) the resource is no longer for sale, or (b) that resource is part of a multi-volume set [as Justification and Variegated Nomism].
Personally, I'd like to see the desktop application improved so that (b) is less of a problem. There's not much that can be done about (a) if a second edition comes out after a course is written and recorded. There's some discussion (with a Faithlife response) on that here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/103139.aspx
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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At the very least, a description of the link so someone who buys the second edition could read the passage would help, though honestly, with more than 50 links to the EBR:ST IN THIS CORSE, THERE SHOULD BE LINKS TO THAT EFITION AS WELL AS THE FIRST EFITION. IT US A VERY SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE COURSE. To leave that man ch of the course inaccessible to a student who has spent hundreds of dollars on the course is a glaring fault. These courses to get revisions (i know because se i have had NT221 for more than a year nd it has been updated several times). These links should be updated to the current resourse in a resource update. If it was a lot nk that is used once, it would be understandible, but the EBR:ST like nk is a very significant part of the course occuring more than 50 times.
john
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John Kaess said:
And yet another resource listed in the course as FA:EDJ and on the page that says it doesn't exist it give the file name RCSFAITH. I am unable to find this anwhere on the web.
And yet another one: listed in the reading as GU:HRT and file name RCSGRACE can't find these anywhere.
logosres:rcsfaith is: Faith Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine of Justification - by R C Sproul
logosres:rcsgrace is: Grace Unknown: The Heart of Reformed Theology - by R C Sproul
These are Baker books which I got on a Bakerbytes Logos 2 CD: R C Sproul Digital Library
John Kaess said:I expect that when I pay hundreds of dollars for a resource that it won't have literally hundreds of bad links.
. . . or obsolete links
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John,
I think what Mark wanted to say is: nothing is missing from your course and the links. According to the official document detailing the linked resources, there are exactly 39 See-Also links to the old version of the resource which resemble the 39 links to the newer version. See for yourself https://faithlife.com/nt331/documents/7482 (You'll need to join the group, I think). Both versions of Moo's Encountering the Book of Romans have the identical text, it is just that the publisher made Logos produce a newer edition without pictures.
The spreadsheet linked above will give you the names and numers of links to the other resources you may not have.
Hope this helps,
Mick
Have joy in the Lord!
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You are correct, there is nothing missing from the course, but there are dozens of bad links. The worst is the Encountering Romans. If I click on a link to that resource, what is supposed to happen is a pop up which tells me I do not have a license for that resource with a link to Logos.com where I can buy the resource. I get the pop up saying I don't have the resource, but the link to logos.com where i am supposed to be able to buy the resource is a bad link. Nothing comes up except a "We're Sorry" page. However, the resource IS available in Logos, but the link to it is bad. This is unacceptable in a course costing hundreds of dollars. These links (actually dozens of them) should be fixed.
Thank you for the link to the spreadsheet. I've jpined the group and downloaded the spreadsheet.
John
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John Kaess said:
Encountering Romans. If I click on a link to that resource, what is supposed to happen is a pop up which tells me I do not have a license for that resource with a link to Logos.com where I can buy the resource.
Right, that's what Logos has conditioned us to expect and that's how it works for resources that are available in the store.
John Kaess said:I get the pop up saying I don't have the resource, but the link to logos.com where i am supposed to be able to buy the resource is a bad link. Nothing comes up except a "We're Sorry" page.
The point is that this is not an issue of the course at all. The course gives a link to a resource, like logosres:encbkromans;ref=Page.p_21;off=492 which works fine for people who own that resource, like me (I made the link out of the blue instead of a screenshot and link from the course since I don't own NT331). Of course it can't for those who don't own the resource. Now Faithlife once came up with the idea to not have the links simply not working, but to show the "You don't have a licence" tab instead and include a preview if possible and a link to logos.com. This is not the course, but this is functionality of Logos 6 for every resource link it can't open, regardless where it is. This link should ideally lead you to a page in the store where you can buy the product. This now is no longer Logos 6, but the logos.com website. It reacts to the request showing a product product page for the resource you just asked it for. If there is no such product page, it should give the resource page https://www.logos.com/resources/LLS_ENCBKROMANS/encountering-the-book-of-romans-a-theological-survey - that it doesn't but shows "We're sorry" is an issue for the web development team (I may cross-post in the respective subforum)
No it's not. A different resource is - see its resource page here: https://www.logos.com/resources/LLS_ENCBKROMANSMOO/encountering-the-book-of-romans-a-theological-survey (the URL differs by the part that differs the logos resource ID) and see that it has a "buy it" button where the other didn't since the publisher no longer allows selling the old version. Even that product is currently only available in a bundle - such things change. It would be nice if Logos had a product page for the old resource, informing users that it has been withdrawn and replaced with a new product - but again, this is not an issue of the course or its links, but of the website.John Kaess said:However, the resource IS available in Logos, but the link to it is bad.
As I tried telling you, they work well and don't need fixing. The website giving 'are you lost' instead of the resource page should be fixed.John Kaess said:These links (actually dozens of them) should be fixed.
Hope that clarifies it a bit.
Have joy in the Lord!
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How am i supposed to know that the link you gave for this resource is correct instead of the resource i found by searching logos and getting this:
https://www.logos.com/product/45065/encountering-the-book-of-romans-2nd-ed
Both have the same title and the course gives me no way to know that your resource is correct and the one i found is not. At best this is confusing, at worst, it's very frustrating and could dause me to soend $28 on the wrong resource.
you say this not the fault if the course, but of logos.com website. I disagree. The course could clearly identify the resources used. Instead they chose to provide a link without a description, and the link doesn't take me to the resource i need to buy. This is a problem with the course as well as with logos.com. It's almost like they don't WANT me to know the resource they want me to read in the course, or else they would provide a way to purchase the resources i don't have.
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John Kaess said:
How am i supposed to know that the link you gave for this resource is correct instead of the resource i found by searching logos and getting this:
https://www.logos.com/product/45065/encountering-the-book-of-romans-2nd-ed
Both have the same title and the course gives me no way to know that your resource is correct and the one i found is not.
That's easy. Let me show you from another course:
That resource ID shows me that "SFG:MMC" whatever the cryptic characters might stand for is a resource with id SYMBLSMFRTHGSPL which means I should be able to find its resource page under http://www.logos.com/resources/LLS_SYMBLSMFRTHGSPL (just add the resource Id after http://www.logos.com/resources/LLS_ )
In your case, the links to the first edition old and new versions of Moo's book should show a resource ID of ENCBKROMANS and ENCBKROMANSMOO, respectively (and sorry, it seems they updated the "Encountering"-bundle to include the second edition, so the product page is wrong and currently there's no way I know to buy either of them from Logos.com).
If the second edition was linked to, the resource id would read NCNTRNGBKRM2NDD (which you can see in the URL when you follow the link to "more info" at the very bottom of the second edition product page).
Have joy in the Lord!
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And you don't think that the link you showed just below the resource id shouldn't do exactly what you just showed me? Because wouldn't that solve this problem?
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And are you telling me that this resource which has 39 links in the course isn't actually available in any way from logos, and that this is NOT a problem with the course?
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John Kaess said:
And you don't think that the link you showed just below the resource id shouldn't do exactly what you just showed me? Because wouldn't that solve this problem?
It does (nearly), since when I click the 'visit Logos.com' it (by chance) is a resource that's not available on its own:
I'm not sure if we should see this (note that the URL has resource in the singular [which automatically switches to plural resources when nothing is found like with Moo's two versions of Encountering first edition] and no LLS_ before the resource id), which helps a bit, or rather directly go to the resource page
or the product page of the no-longer-available-on-its-own product:
Have joy in the Lord!
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John Kaess said:
And are you telling me that this resource which has 39 links in the course isn't actually available in any way from logos, and that this is NOT a problem with the course?
I'm sure if you were to create a new thread with the suggestion that this volume be split up because of it's prominent place on the course, then that would be seriously considered by Faithlife. It may be an oversight.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark and Mick,
you both have been really helpful and i do appreciate it. I'd love to create a new thread asking logos to break this resource out, but i honestly do not know how to cogently explain this. There are apparently three resources with the exact same name that aren't the same. There's the original edition (which is not available), the 2nd efition (which is available) and then the edition which is part of a collection, but is different and not available separately. I myself am confused. Can one of you create a thread and explain to logos what we need. This resource is linked to in the readings 39 times and there should be some way to buy it in Logos.
thanks.
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John Kaess said:
And are you telling me that this resource which has 39 links in the course isn't actually available in any way from logos, and that this is NOT a problem with the course?
John
There are 2 links for Encountering, one for the original edition and one for the new edition. The original edition is no longer available, but some Logos users have that version—The first link is for their benefit. The second link is for the current edition. Nothing is broken. Two links exist for the benefit of ALL Logos users. As you can see in this screenshot, I own the second edition but not the first. While the first link takes you to the Sorry page, the second one will take you to the current edition.
Ideally, the link to the old edition should take you to a page that says, "Logos no longer carries this resource. It has been replaced by…" with a link to the new edition. But alas, they did not do that. Hence this exchange.
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