Please share with us what the hang up is on PPB to Mobile

Usually Logos won't answer, unless the Logosians' anger has reached 'white' hot and they're collecting wood for a big fire.  So, I'll start collecting twigs.

Notice app features have gone to sleep.  I think Kevin is now helping out on the old desktop platform problems (L6). 

Notice also a considerable amount of noise over in web-dev for the web app. Subscription.

There is your answer.  I'd be stupid to put PBs on the free app, when I need a honeypot on the paid version.

I think Logos is a business - a great business that does great things - but a business first.  Like all businesses, Logos has experienced financial pressures in this economy.

Personal books are not a revenue producer.  Therefore, personal books are not nearly as high a priority to the company as to the customers.  When it comes to upgrading personal books, It is a more of a "we will get around to it" feature.

That is not unreasonable of Logos.  But is an inconvenient reality for many of us.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) said:

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

Thanks Bradley, at least we know.

Michael Childs said:Personal books are not a revenue producer.

As an FYI Michael, that can be said for ANY software feature in Logos outside of Logos Now features.

Don Awalt said:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) said:

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

Thanks Bradley, at least we know.

Michael Childs said:

Personal books are not a revenue producer.

As an FYI Michael, that can be said for ANY software feature in Logos outside of Logos Now features.

I agree that the majority of the marketing and engineering budget seems to be focused on Logos Now. I cannot believe that they would prioritize some of the niche features in the Logos Now releases over something we all want...PBB sync!

Agape,

Steve

Faithlife is investing in a tremendous number of new ventures, both extensions of Bible study into new markets via new channels (web sites, apps, etc.) as well as complementary products. We have heard loud and clear Bob wants new customers. The money for this had to come from somewhere - it came, and comes from the cash cow, Logos/Verbum. Add the need to create new functionality in every point release of Logos/Verbum in order to make the subscription model attractive to new subscribers - and you have lot of competition for the dollar that is higher priority than features that need a refresh, that we have used for a while and continue to use in our daily study. 

While investing in new ventures, channels, and markets is necessary for survival, what disappoints me is I think it's taken too big of a hit out of software that needs its own reinvestment - which is starting to hurt the very software that drives the resource purchases.  Even fundamental functionality like "search" needs more attention, not less. While this area has received attention with a lot of data tagging that creates new abilities to find things, it amazes me how many times a simple Google search finds an answer instantly that I have no idea how to find in Logos/Verbum (in part because of the dizzying array of search syntax, types of searches, and overlapping guides we face when we have a problem to solve). This is not meant to be critical of data tagging, more to say in the grand scheme of things it is version 1 and needs investment, user interface needs refinement, simplification. (And don't even get me started on the fact that you don't even get highlighted search results in Notes! A worthless feature and waste of time when you have longer Notes!)

Bob has told us Faithlife is not Google, granted - but I believe this need would have been better served without some of these "distractions" - and there are more ways to solve a problem now than there were when Logos 4 eliminated Fuzzy Search, a Logos 3 feature, in 2011 - but that's just one example. I am really shocked that in 12 "Now" releases we haven't seen a more concerted effort to refresh existing features that are going on 5 years old in some cases. There has been some work, but it's a minority of the Now software investment - and the Logos/Verbum software is suffering IMHO.

It could get worse, it could snowball - if users who suffer from their favorite features being ignored don't really want to pay for the new "Now" features, will there be a lot fewer upgrades to version 7 in lieu of cross-grades, and a lot less cross-grades in lieu of free engine upgrades? Will people see less value in adding resources to their libraries, because the often-premium pricing of those resources is not realized in the value perceived from software that has holes in how existing users want to work with the software? What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO.

I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.

Don Awalt said:

.....What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO.

I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.

[Y]

another big disappointment [:@]

I have made my more used PBB resources into Accordance user modules for just this reason of wanting them on my iPad. I am not sure if we will ever see much movement on this as Faithlife seems to give off the feeling our mobile apps are good as they are. And I will say they are good but still feel more offline functionality and PBB are things that are needed to move the mobile apps from a good app to a great app. Faithlife likes to consider itself the Cadillac of Bible software but unfortunately their mobile app feels far from the top of the line in my books. More and more people utilize their phones/tablets as a primary reading device and if FL cannot keep up it may well find itself left behind as a preferred platform.

-dan

It seems that development on the mobile platform has completely stopped recently other than emergency bug fixes. Disappointing and short-sighted.

David Ames said:

Have saved some of the source DOCX files as PDF and moved those to Mobile to read there.  

I am lagging behind David with PBBs, not quite up to 200 yet!

I see no point it getting upset about not being able to upload them onto a mobile. Like David, the ones I want to read on my tablet  can easily be converted to pdf or another format. Not as convenient as being able to upload directly but only a minor irritation. OK there is our church bible study quarterly which would benefit by uploading directly but it is not the end of the world.

What would really upset us all is if Logos tried to satisfy every thing we wanted/demanded and went bust. Bob has no intention of that happening and I for one, am behind him on that.

We have a definitive answer on development of PBB uploads into mobiles and there is no point in continuing to winge about it.

Let's thank God for Logos and every other blessing that we have. If we must worry about something let it be about new Presidents, votes for in or out of the EU, or whatever currently steals the limelight in our home country. Things that will make a real difference to our lives and the state of our respective countries. I am off to bed!

I do use PBB, not as often as others. However the main thing that is frustrating to many users is the failure to Logos to act on their promises. I understand there have been work force cuts as Bradley mentioned. We the users are not to blame for that however and should not have features that have been promised through the years not be given the priority of completion.

Those who were part of the original Logos 4 Beta testing team may remember a number of the old Libronix features we were assured would be rolled into Logos 4 - yet here we are on Logos 6 and still do not have the features. (or in the case of the Sermon File Add-in - we have a sad excuse of a replacement that requires a change in the formatting of our Sermons)

Why do some get so frustrated with these unfulfilled promises? It may have something to do with all these other endeavors that pop up. Sure some may find the new endeavors appealing, others may not... Leaving users you've made promises to out in the wind - not very professional.

I keep Logos because of the investment I already have in it, I'm nowhere near as likely to ever recommend them to the level I did in the past - primarily due to instances like these.

Frank Sauer said:

Those who were part of the original Logos 4 Beta testing team may remember a number of the old Libronix features we were assured would be rolled into Logos 4 - yet here we are on Logos 6 and still do not have the features

I was not part of the L4 Beta testing, but while L6 is a huge improvement from L3, I have always traced what I see as a slow downward spiral to decisions made in the huge change that took place from L3 to L4.  It is history, cannot be undone. There has been positive benefits for Faithlife, but I would not be surprised if those positive benefits are temporary, rather than long term.  The fact that people still reference the L3 to L4 change so many years later should be noted.

I am using PBB now mainly for creating sermons and preaching straight from the logos program.  If PBB falls by the wayside, it would be a huge letdown.

That may be true, but for the cost of LOGOS (which for many is expensive), it should be more of a priority for the company when so many customers are wanting this feature!  Just sayin'...

I was very disappointed to see that this was not a feature of the initial Logos 7 release.

During the same time period, savvy users have discovered ways to use the PBB well beyond what Faithlife likely intended as the target usage. While that horse is out of the barn, allowing the PBB to fade into "shadow-ware" is the next best option.

Mark said:

As I mentioned, I am using PBB now primarily to import my sermon notes and preach with the Bible on the left of the screen and the notes on the right of the screen.  What I like about this is the ability to hover over verse references as well as the possibility to have hundreds of sermons stored in one place to be used at a moment's notice.  For this reason I am really saddened to realize that PBB is not even mentioned as a L7 feature.

This is likely closer to the original intent of the PBB. I definitely understand your disappointment with the lack of further work on the PBB tool.

PPB was a major strategic error visa viz subscription. But never too late for the Enhanced Personal Publishing (EPP) product .... NOW users only. That'd definitely put a lock on NOW'ers, if always subscription.

alabama24 said:

Why would you think this feature has "suffered" because of reduced staff? How has this feature "suffered"? If you are talking about personal books on mobile, it has nothing to do with reduced staff. The problems are financial and legal.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) said:

Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.

[:(]

[:(]

Schumitinu said:

What is the difference with mobile platforms?

My thoughts exactly, when I read in the Android Forum that the issue was less a technical one and more a copyright/piracy one:  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/122739/802098.aspx#802098 

MJ. Smith said:

Stephen Terlizzi said:

Very simple...if you don't want to provide cloud storage, then give the user the ability to store and access personal books on third party cloud storage

Simple to think of; not so simple to implement.

Can't see why this would be difficult to implement unless they store the entire book in their database as a blob? They probably point to the actual file of the text using a pointer in the database. They just need to point to the remote storage on the cloud service provider versus the local disk storage. The files are not on their servers, but rather a third-party server.

Agape,

Steve