Logos 7 FREE engine

My understanding is that the free engine will not be available for several months. That is the way it has been with each new version release.

Also, keep in mind that there is very little difference in the L7 and L6 engines. 

The free engine will be available in February, which is six months from launch.  I guess they want to give everyone a chance to buy it before they give it away.  

Jason Hauser said:

My primary concern with them making money off software is that I and many others bought logos because of the past emphasized promise that you pay for the resources and the software/engine that powers your resources will always be free.

This discussion came up with L4, L5, L6, and now L7. Phil has said many times that the free L7 engine will be made available in February. In this case, it is really moot point because there is basically no difference in the 6.14 engine and the L7 engine. Those who do not choose to purchase and L7 package or Feature set are still running almost exactly what L7 users are running.

JoshInRI said:

Thanks everyone....looks to me like I get nothing of value or use if I just stay with the 6.0 stuff I upgraded to last time.

Heavy Sigh.

Why the sigh? Aren't you happy you don't need to upgrade and won't have to spend any money? I would be [:)]

I am just interested in the sermon editor module that is available in the v7. Does anyone know if that will be available for free in the update in February?

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife) said:

You are in luck! You don't need to wait. If you are running 6.14, then you are getting the exact same experience you would get if you were running 7.0 today without making any purchase.

Andrew, while I won't complain about the L7 rollout over all or the latest LN features, do please also flip that statement around: if you purchased 7.0, the experience is exactly the same as if you had just stayed with 6.14.

Some UI enhancement or even just a reskinning would have helped a long way in making it feel more "new" and not just another 6-week release of LN.

Andrew Zoll said:

Jason Hauser said:

Consider Apple's model: When new iPhone models are released, the new operating system is simultaneously made available as a free upgrade to those with older phones. What's the harm in letting past loyal logos customers merely upgrade their core engines at the same time of a new roll out? If they want the latest greatest features they can buy the data sets in upgrade packages. 

I also want to point out that Apple is a hardware/software/services company and Faithlife is a software/services company. Apple's profitability stems from its large margins on hardware. If we want Faithlife to remain profitable (and I believe that everyone who has purchased products from them should for the sole reason of sustainability), then we need to adapt our expectations to them being profitable on their software and services, and this is a small way to do that.

Very well said, Andrew! Very well! 

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife) said:

You are in luck! You don't need to wait. If you are running 6.14, then you are getting the exact same experience you would get if you were running 7.0 today without making any purchase. The only difference would be the version number that gets displayed in the application.

For clarification, as some may need this specified...

Sean said:

I suppose the syntax of the first statement could possibly be parsed as "If you are running 6.14, then you are getting the exact same experience you would get if you were running 7.0 today without making any purchase [but not the same experience as if you were running 7.0 today with also making a purchase]" but even so, .

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

Jason, the free Logos 7 engine will be available in February. We're asking customers who get access to it through a Logos 7 purchase not to share that link with others.

We do this for a few reasons:

1. 6.14, which is available to everyone as of Monday, and 7.0 are essentially the same app, with just a different version name and splash screen. The code is otherwise virtually identical. So downloading 7.0 wouldn't change anything meaningful for you.
2. The Logos 7 features that will eventually be free are restricted temporarily by licenses. Once we make the 7 engine available to everyone, we'll remove those license restrictions. Until then we don't want people to get confused by thinking they have 7.0 (and getting disappointed that it's virtually identical to 6.14). It's common for people not to understand the differences between the free software update, the feature set upgrade, and the library upgrade. By deferring the free software update by a few months, it allows us to make sure more people understand these important differences.
3. The release of a new version creates a lot of demand on our teams, and limiting access to the new version of the app to those who purchase it allows us to reduce the demand on our customer service and technical support teams and provide better service.

AND 4. the software police are already looking for those that share... hehehehehee (just adding some brevity)

" rel="nofollow">Keep Smiling 4 Jesus said:

Thanks for the link Keep Smiling.  I'll check it out.

I still think my best available option in this case will probably be to return the Full Feature Set and wait on the L-7 Core Engine.  Hopefully, Phil or Andrew will see the question in my original post and be allowed to provide an official reply.  This will allow me to make the most informed decision possible.

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

Multiview Resources will not be included in the free version of Logos 7.

Thank you Phil for your confirmation!  It's a big relief to know a solution does in fact exist.

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

We're planning to do some visual refreshing in an upcoming 7.x release (7.3?). We'll take a look and see if we can address this issue when we do that.

This is great news!  I’m preparing two suggestions for the UserVoice site listed here in order of preference:

1. Add an option to “hide” or turn off the Resource Panel Toolbar (perhaps using a “Show Toolbar” option within the Resource Panel Menu along with a one click keyboard shortcut).  

2. Add an option for users to customize the Resource Panel Toolbar by selecting from a set of icon choices (like what can be done now with the Shortcuts Bar only with more choices).

Ideally, both options can be implemented. [:)] 

Interesting comment and then my question is, if I am happy with the library I already own, what advantage would purchasing the "Starter Package" have if the 6.14 and the Logos 7 app are essentially the same?

I think your feeling  is entirely correct.  I bought Logos 2.0 when I was in seminary (somewhere around 1995). I spent over $200 when we were dirt poor partly because I was promised free upgrades. I was told I'd only have to pay for books the rest of my life. That lasted a while, until they decided to call some of their new features "data sets" and charge for them. And even with the core engine "update," you have to wait 6 months to get it.  

To make matters worse, I was promised that Logos 2.0 would have the best original language searching on the market. When it was released, it wasn't anywhere near as good as what Accordance for the Mac was offering then. It was riddled with errors due to the cumbersome way you had to type in features of grammar.  Now, some 20 years later, that Accordance software from the 90's is STILL far better than what Logos offers--it had a graphical interface that was astoundingly good. If Logos ever does match Accordance, likely they will charge for it. I will still will have to pay for what was promised me in 1995 

But as I said, I am happy with the datasets I already own.

Now if there was some improvement in the core such as giving us back fuzzy search in the application version, I might consider upgrading, but not the feature alone for $149.00. And in the "Starter" you don't get the sermon editor either.

I have been asking for YEARS for a Japanese version of the Bible and hopefully with furigana over the kanji, but it's never happened.

I am happy with Logos for what I use it for now but I feel it's expensive for me as a missionary to justify upgrading at this time.  

So again my point is, if 6.14 is "basically the same app", why upgrade?

I'm a bit confused by all the different options that Logos offers. I am subscribed to Logos 7, so I have the latest Logos version. However, I'm preparing a workshop for new Logos users and I would like to know what exactly they will get in the following case.

In February, when 'Logos 7' becomes free, what exactly will people get for free?

- the core engine: what exactly does that include?
- starters features set? what exactly does that include?

- full features set? what exactly does that include?

- anything else? what exactly would that include?

I've been using Logos since the Libronix days. Each year the price increases and I now purchase very very little. People tend to think because the company is selling Christian resources that there should be little profit involved. Logos is a business and therefore part of its objective is profit. I've been part of many "Lifetime" memberships, but these don't make money so new and innovative ways need to be found for profit. Logos needs to do the same thing. Logos Now, datasets, packages, are all ways to make more money and that is why they exist. Let's be honest if logos made the software free and you only paid for resources development would grind to a halt. The question is how much profit? This only Logos will know and will be determined by their values (ie if they have a value of enabling Christians in studying the Bible, then they may offer things for less cost). Logos obviously values those in academics by offering a discount, but so does Apple because what people use when learning they are likely to continue to use. I cannot find anything similar for those in full time ministry, perhaps someone could enlighten me? (Accordance does offer ministry discounts)

In the end my investment in Logos ground to a halt. Resources are just out of my price range. As an end user I may only want a £15 resource, but it is only available in a £300 package. This sounded the death knell for me. If Logos was looking to help me study the Bible they would not force me to purchase lots of books I didn't want to get the one I did. Imagine going into a bookshop and wanting to purchase a Bible and they said you can only buy this if you by strongs, a bible dictionary and a Bible survey! Not they way to go if you want people to buy from your shop. Then the emails started with amazing discounts, not £800 but £500. Really? These come nearly every month. My annual budget isn't even that much.

I suppose that if the software was so frustratingly slow, I might look at a subscription. I have a 2015 iMac i7 with 24GB RAM. I can open Photoshop faster than Logos. I also have Accordance and can open Accordance find what I'm looking for and exit, whilst Logos is still saying, "Signing in..., Preparing your Library... Synchronizing... I had also hoped to be able to use Logos at church, but at church I need to turn of my internet so that my device doesn't get any interruptions. Logos without an internet connection is the same as the kindle. Other functionality does not work.

All these factors caused me to re-evaluate Logos. Do I really need it? No. With the amount of money Logos costs I could create a well stocked library that the whole church could use. Many people could benefit from one book, not just me. What I really needed was a way to search the bible and almost any Bible application will do so. I've also found that reading a book and making notes while I read enhances my retention. Writing things down by hand enhances my retention. This can then be scanned or typed in to my computer if needed.

I am now happy to use Logos as a kindle. I read the resources I have in it. Make notes on what I read. The rest I do not need and rarely use. I still purchase resources, but only when they're heavily discounted. I also use Olive Tree, Accordance and Tecarta (iOS/Android only) as they are cheaper by comparison and I'm able to buy the individual resources I need that are locked in a Logos package. As a case in point the Common English bible came up in Logos today for £10.99 and in Olive Tree for £2.99. That's quite a difference for the same resource.