New Payment Plan Offer Misleading

Cynthia Tucker

Good to know. I thought I would be able to add on to my payment plan as well. I thought Mark posted something about being able to merge three payment plans into one.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842851#Comment_842851

Good to know. I thought I would be able to add on to my payment plan as well. I thought Mark posted something about being able to merge three payment plans into one.

Yes and I mentioned to the sales rep about what Mark said because he had said to me, "I don't know where you heard all these things" and that's when I mentioned Mark by name (sorry Mark Barnes for throwing you under the bus). Maybe he got special treatment as an added bonus for being MVP or something. Oh well, I spent up front money to get the Gold Standard upgrade along with Bronze for all packages except for Lutheran and SDA and this so called limited time offer was going to help me get the other larger upgrade, but I guess it will have to wait, because it wasn't what we thought it was.

DAL

Cynthia Tucker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842870#Comment_842870

Well, I'm sure Mark will be along to weigh in at some point (provided he survived being thrown under that bus! [:)])

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842870#Comment_842870

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842881#Comment_842881

Well, I'm sure Mark will be along to weigh in at some point (provided he survived being thrown under that bus! )

Yep, my apologies to Mark Barnes if I misunderstood what he wrote.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842882#Comment_842882

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this....

Surprise, surprise! You've been stacked lol

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842885#Comment_842885

Stacking plans has been the model for some time, as opposed to the old merged plan model. My read from the new 20 month offer was that it was ambiguous (not misleading) and therefore likely to not be an offer to revert to the old model. As a result, I'll just buy a few Bronze level packages for $20-$30 each and wait out my remaining 12 months. In the meantime I will pick up limited individual resources as needed and wait it out for L8 before making a large scale upgrade. I don't want to be on a plan by the time L8 comes around.

Mike Childs

Well, there is a 30 return period to get out of a deal that you misunderstood. So, except for the disappointment, there is no long term problem that cannot be corrected / canceled.

I expected the stacked payment plans, as that has been policy for sometime, and it is a major reason that I have not made many significant purchases for a while. I just will not stack payment plans under any circumstances. I had only a small balance on my last purchase plan, and paid it off. But I was surprised that I was not offered the 20 payment terms that were being advertised online.

The real damage of all this will be to Faithlife in terms of customer relations and good will. One great thing about Logos / Faithlife is that 30 day return period, so any financial mistakes can be canceled.

Faithlife is really run by honorable people. Some of the sales agents may have gotten overly aggressive, or not explained the payment details clearly. However, many of them are new, and just learning the facts themselves.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842908#Comment_842908

But I was surprised that I was not offered the 20 payment terms that were being advertised online.

Web site default drop down is a few months. Larger purchase enables more months for payment plans: e.g. purchase of $ 1,858 has 18 months option for payment plan.

Dreaming of web site modification to allow payment plan merging using applicable business rules.

Faithlife is really run by honorable people.

Thankful for recent three minute phone call with Accounting to merge two payment plans with the same number of remaining months into one, which saved $ 5 per month for me.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842925#Comment_842925

Faithlife is really run by honorable people.

Thankful for recent three minute phone call with Accounting to merge two payment plans with the same number of remaining months into one, which saved $ 5 per month for me.

Keep Smiling Smile

I think we need to be careful to be clear that FL isn't "merging" plans in the old way. Calling it "stacking" is more appropriate. In your situation where the new plan and existing plan are the same length, the result would of course be seamless. However, the problem exists for folks who have a shorter existing plan who wish to add a new longer plan and extend the old plan out to match. This isn't an option any longer. I suspect that many with existing plans never got the word on this change; I never received the supposed email that went out explaining the change and only found out about it 9 months ago because I check the forums daily.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842958#Comment_842958

I think we need to be careful to be clear that FL isn't "merging" plans in the old way. Calling it "stacking" is more appropriate. In your situation where the new plan and existing plan are the same length, the result would of course be seamless. However, the problem exists for folks who have a shorter existing plan who wish to add a new longer plan and extend the old plan out to match. This isn't an option any longer.

Concur "stacking" is a better term for two of more plans that have different lengths. Combining two plans with the same remaining length was seamless (and fits the new rules).

Concur being able to stretch out an existing plan for combination with a Logos 7 upgrade would be attractive.

Also noticed $ 1,800 + in shopping cart has maximum of 18 months for payments, but significantly higher purchase is needed for 19 months. Apologies since not know what purchase amount qualifies for 20 months of payments: $ 10,587.04 had maximum of 19 months (followed by removing all from cart).

20 Nov 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program includes link => https://www.logos.com/faq#PaymentPlans (that has been updated for Logos 7)

Can I combine multiple payment plans?

Yes. Call (800) 875–6467 and ask a representative how!

9 Dec 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program included

The changes we've made this week affect how new purchases can be combined with existing payment plans.

When adding a new purchase to an existing payment plan:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance with the existing payment plan balance into a payment plan that meets the following criteria:

The plan length may not exceed the greater of:

The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan

The number of months the new purchase qualifies for

The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

To combine multiple existing payment plans and a new purchase:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance and existing payment plan balances into one payment plan that meets the following criteria:

The resulting monthly payment may not be less than the combined existing monthly payments.

The plan length may not exceed the greater of:

The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan

The number of months the new purchase qualifies for

The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

14 Jan 2016 Thread => Update to Payment Plan Program - Changes to Down Payment Requirements changed the 25 % down payment amount to equal monthly payment.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842979#Comment_842979

I think we need to be careful to be clear that FL isn't "merging" plans in the old way. Calling it "stacking" is more appropriate. In your situation where the new plan and existing plan are the same length, the result would of course be seamless. However, the problem exists for folks who have a shorter existing plan who wish to add a new longer plan and extend the old plan out to match. This isn't an option any longer.

Concur "stacking" is a better term for two of more plans that have different lengths. Combining two plans with the same remaining length was seamless (and fits the new rules).

Concur being able to stretch out an existing plan for combination with a Logos 7 upgrade would be attractive.

Also noticed $ 1,800 + in shopping cart has maximum of 18 months for payments, but significantly higher purchase is needed for 19 months. Apologies since not know what purchase amount qualifies for 20 months of payments: $ 10,587.04 had maximum of 19 months (followed by removing all from cart).

20 Nov 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program includes link => https://www.logos.com/faq#PaymentPlans (that has been updated for Logos 7)

Can I combine multiple payment plans?

Yes. Call (800) 875–6467 and ask a representative how!

9 Dec 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program included

The changes we've made this week affect how new purchases can be combined with existing payment plans.

When adding a new purchase to an existing payment plan:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance with the existing payment plan balance into a payment plan that meets the following criteria:

The plan length may not exceed the greater of:

The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan

The number of months the new purchase qualifies for

The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

To combine multiple existing payment plans and a new purchase:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance and existing payment plan balances into one payment plan that meets the following criteria:

The resulting monthly payment may not be less than the combined existing monthly payments.

The plan length may not exceed the greater of:

The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan

The number of months the new purchase qualifies for

The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

14 Jan 2016 Thread => Update to Payment Plan Program - Changes to Down Payment Requirements changed the 25 % down payment amount to equal monthly payment.

Keep Smiling

Good stuff! This should help people who are unclear about the (not so) new policy. I can understand why people get upset since everyone had grown accustomed to the previous policy. That said, FL's reasons for the change are financially sound. Personally I'm fine with it since I had begun to have uneasy feelings about the never ending payment plan.

Over time people should be able to reasonably avoid stacking by setting up payment plans that expire several months before a new Logos release (assuming that one purchases early during the release cycle). Of course this assumes that FL stays with a roughly 22-24 month development cycle. If they ever go to a 12 month development cycle, people like me who don't wish to "stack" will either need to pay outright, grow accustomed to not making significant resource upgrades immediately upon release, or choose to fall into an "every other release" pattern for significant resource upgrades.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842988#Comment_842988

I see the point, but an exception could be made since mine is only 2 months that I'd be adding and they would still make money in the process; but why lose a sale for not making such a minor exception? I can wait, less money I'll have to spend if they don't want it.

DAL

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842870#Comment_842870

Yes and I mentioned to the sales rep about what Mark said because he had said to me, "I don't know where you heard all these things" and that's when I mentioned Mark by name (sorry Mark Barnes for throwing you under the bus). Maybe he got special treatment as an added bonus for being MVP or something.

I've never had any special treatment from Logos Sales staff, so far as I know.

My payment plan situation seems to be quite different to yours, for three reasons. (1) I added stuff to an existing plan without changing the plan's length. (2) the plan I merged into was a brand new plan that I'd only created the previous day. (3) The total plan was only 6 months.

I think the big ones are (1) and (3). To give a fictional example: If you have an 18-month plan at $200/month, buy a $400 product and extend the plan to 20 months, then Faithlife are effectively giving you 18 months interest free credit, as they won't see any of their $400 until after 18 months. That was the big flaw in the previous system that many of us took advantage of. They've closed the door on that loophole, and it's not going to re-open.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843002#Comment_843002

Yes and I mentioned to the sales rep about what Mark said because he had said to me, "I don't know where you heard all these things" and that's when I mentioned Mark by name (sorry Mark Barnes for throwing you under the bus). Maybe he got special treatment as an added bonus for being MVP or something.

I've never had any special treatment from Logos Sales staff, so far as I know.

I think the problem was the statement about "longer paymen plan, lower monthly payments," but they never specify anything. Lack of communication skills, but hey, it's fine. No worries, they're a business so it's understandable.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843009#Comment_843009

Yeah I ran into that issue too. When I spoke with sales I was quoted a great payment plan but it was lower than my current and then I looked more closely and it was some odd stacking plan option which just seems dumb to me. So when I asked to combine my plans I lost the benefits of the Logos 7 payment plan model and had to pay a large downpayment with a payment plan on a much shorter schedule... I felt it to be misleading but hey Logos got their money and I got my books so all is good I guess

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843129#Comment_843129

Yeah I ran into that issue too. When I spoke with sales I was quoted a great payment plan but it was lower than my current and then I looked more closely and it was some odd stacking plan option which just seems dumb to me. So when I asked to combine my plans I lost the benefits of the Logos 7 payment plan model and had to pay a large downpayment with a payment plan on a much shorter schedule... I felt it to be misleading but hey Logos got their money and I got my books so all is good I guess

I found a new cheaper way to get it --- Credit Card! For example, if the rate was 18% APR for 12 months on a purchase of $706 then my monthly payments would be $64.73, but I don't really have to give that amount every month if I cannot make it, say, this month, because I could give less (i.e. Minimum payment or a little extra). Plus I don't get charged to make a payment.

With Logos if my purchase is $706 add $60 in "administration fees" ($5x12)...that would be $766 divided by 12 months = $63.83 Almost the same amount per month as the credit card, except I'm not bound to dish out $60 something dollars every month, where as with Logos that $60 something WILL come out of my account no matter what.

I'm not saying Logos is charging me almost 18% interest to make a $706 purchase, but it sure feels that way with the so called "administration fee." Again, I'm not saying they are charging interests just because it works out that way with my particular purchase. I believe the $5 "ad. Fee" is great, but only on way larger purchases than mine.

For me it'll be even cheaper since my other credit card has a 0% APR promotion for 12 months right now hehehe so that means Zero interest and Zero administration fee.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842882#Comment_842882

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this....

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

JoshInRI

My response below. The bird is Logos

delivering the final straw to this camel....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843698#Comment_843698

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this....

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

You mean stacked plan as in your payments will go up for a few months until you pay off your new added payment plan. For example, you owe 15 months, you pay $115, but you stack a new payment plan that equals 3 months, and now your payments go up to $170 for three months and then it will revert back to $115 after those three months are over since you're pretty much done paying for the "stacked" payment plan. The only difference is you don't pay an extra $5 bucks interest...I mean administration/processing fee or whatever you choose to call it. At least that's what I was told it would happen if I added/stacked a new payment plan.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843920#Comment_843920

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this....

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

You mean stacked plan as in your payments will go up for a few months until you pay off your new added payment plan. For example, you owe 15 months, you pay $115, but you stack a new payment plan that equals 3 months, and now your payments go up to $170 for three months and then it will revert back to $115 after those three months are over since you're pretty much done paying for the "stacked" payment plan. The only difference is you don't pay an extra $5 bucks interest...I mean administration/processing fee or whatever you choose to call it. At least that's what I was told it would happen if I added/stacked a new payment plan.

I am not exactly sure of all the variables that factor into my specific plan and how they differ from others. However, after my order of L7, I saw two payment plans on my account. FL sent me an email saying that my plans were meant to be combined but this was delayed due to the high volume of costumer interactions this week. Now, I see just one plan. When I click on this plan's details I see two orders, however, the payment plan itself has these orders combined into one total. My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months. This is what I wanted albeit I would have liked it to be stretched out for 20 months. Either way, I'm happy enough with the situation.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843937#Comment_843937

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843947#Comment_843947

That is good news! You got lucky. I had to pay a large down payment for mine

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843948#Comment_843948

I would have bought a lot more resources if I could have combined under the advertised plan.

Unfortunately I was only offered the old short plan with large down payment or stacked plans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843947#Comment_843947

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

I had 10 months left on my older plan.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843948#Comment_843948

That is good news! You got lucky. I had to pay a large down payment for mine

I, too, had to put some money down. But it wasn't much.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843698#Comment_843698

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this....

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

That's great!

Faithlife employees, on the assumption that you're still reading this thread, could someone confirm/clarify/correct what all's been said here about payment plans and the present promotion? Thanks!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/843957#Comment_843957

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

I had 10 months left on my older plan.

Interesting. It looks like an exception was made from the current policy for that one additional month. Maybe Sales Reps have the ability to do this where the existing plan meets specific criteria and the plan terms aren't significantly different. The result in your case most likely didn't result in a major shifting of revenue for FL.