Layouts taking forever to open

Comments
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Hi Bruce, I just tried to open a layout that has two windows (5 Bibles in one window and 8 commentaries in the other window). It took an amazing 29 seconds to load. I don't usually have a layout with more than two windows, but on the few that I do have, they all loaded in an "appropriate" amount of time.
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I am using 7.1.0.0016 and layouts open surprisingly fast....but....awk! All my previews for layouts are missing. Hopefully that is temporary anomaly.
After some fiddling it seems that new layouts preview fine, but most (not all) of the previous layouts have no previews. That is likely irreverent to this thread, however maybe I am just having a good morning, but in 7.1 b6 my Layouts are leaping up as fast as I can remember! I mean like 3-5 seconds for moderately complex layouts. So there may be hope!
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Below there are a layout screenshots of a dul two monitor setup.
The first layout took 10 seconds and the second took 20 seconds.
I guess if you have four monitors and many pictures you have time to make some coffee (Kenyan coffee is the best)
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Bill Shewmaker said:
Hi Bruce, I just tried to open a layout that has two windows (5 Bibles in one window and 8 commentaries in the other window). It took an amazing 29 seconds to load
Milkman said:I have dual monitors and this layout took only 5 seconds to open up.
Veli Voipio said:Below there are a layout screenshots of a dul two monitor setup.
The first layout took 10 seconds and the second took 20 seconds.
Okay, now I'm jealous. I just tried my two most popular layouts. The most complex one still took 2 1/2 minutes and the other one took 1 1/2 minute. [:@]
I have a reasonable fast i5 that is only a few years old. Perhaps I need to make my layouts less complex but I really like them as they are.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
I have a reasonable fast i5 that is only a few years old. Perhaps I need to make my layouts less complex
Start Logos with CTRL key held (to get logs). After the layout has loaded:
- Provide a screenshot of your layout
- upload the compressed (zipped) logos.log file
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Start Logos with CTRL key held (to get logs). After the layout has loaded:
- Provide a screenshot of your layout
- upload the compressed (zipped) logos.log file
Thanks Dave. Here is the logos.log file. Every time I tired to load it with the CTRL key held it didn't seem to like it and gave me a warning message.
1351.LogosError - September 21, 2016.zip
Here is a screenshot of my primary layout that I use every day.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Here is a screenshot of my primary layout that I use every day.
Do you happen to have Logos Now? Have you tried the Multiview Resources tool?
I find the multi view UI to be more responsive than using linked sets. Using a multiview for each linked set of resources would reduce the number of panes from 7 to 3, which should also make a big difference in load times.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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PetahChristian said:
Do you happen to have Logos Now? Have you tried the Multiview Resources tool?
Yes, I have Logos Now. I just have not taken time to convert this layout which I have used more many years.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Hi Bruce,
When it comes to actually opening a layout, it might be the size of the layout (i.e. the amount of panels you are opening) or the amount of visual filters you have. On the other hand if you didn't have any problems in Logos 6 with the same layout I would think that odd. Logos does have to open up everything you're asking it to do in quick succession. But I've not seen people have problems with the layouts menu alone as you are reporting. Can you post the display tab from DXDiag? you can open DXDiag from the search bar in the Start menu by typing dxdiag into search and. Either take a screenshot of it or click "Save all information" and post that.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Thanks Dave. Here is the logos.log file. Every time I tired to load it with the CTRL key held it didn't seem to like it and gave me a warning message.
That's another issue. What was the message?
Try permanent logging as per https://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging and upload the zipped log files folder.
I replicated your layout and it loaded within 45s after starting Logos, and within 7s from the layout menu. The logos.log file (not LogosError.log) should indicate what is happening with your layout.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Tommy Ball said:
Can you post the display tab from DXDiag?
Thanks for looking into this Tommy. Here is a screenshot of dxdiag
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Dave Hooton said:
That's another issue. What was the message?
Here is the message when I held the CTRL key again -
Dave Hooton said:Try permanent logging as per https://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging
I believe that my diagnostic logging was already enabled but I did it again just to make sure.
Here are the logs
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Tommy Ball said:
Can you post the display tab from DXDiag?
Thanks for looking into this Tommy. Here is a screenshot of dxdiag
Can you post the Display tab? Sorry, I should have clarified that.
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Bruce Dunning said:
I believe that my diagnostic logging was already enabled but I did it again just to make sure.
Here are the logs
Do you have anything in the layout that would be using or opening your Collections?
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Tommy Ball said:
Can you post the Display tab? Sorry, I should have clarified that.
Sorry, I missed that. Here it is.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Tommy Ball said:
Do you have anything in the layout that would be using or opening your Collections?
I don't think so. But I did have an additional window open with several resources that I have since decided to close.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Tommy Ball said:
Thanks Tommy. I'll check this out when I have a bit of time and am connected to wifi.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:Tommy Ball said:
Do you have anything in the layout that would be using or opening your Collections?
I don't think so. But I did have an additional window open with several resources that I have since decided to close.
It takes 1m 44s to begin opening Logos (22s for me), of which about 1m is taken up caching collection rules!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
It takes 1m 44s to begin opening Logos (22s for me), of which about 1m is taken up caching collection rules!
I'm not sure I follow Dave. Are you saying that each time I start all of my collections cache even if I'm not using them?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
Are you saying that each time I start all of my collections cache even if I'm not using them?
I think so because I started deleting collections that could be created on the fly to decrease my startup time and its seemed to help.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Collections impose a cost on the system whether you’re “using them” or not, because they're featured in resource picker drop-downs across the application. For example, in Bible Search, the application needs to know which collections contain Bibles and so should be in the list.
They are evaluated in the background at startup to make accessing them faster in the future. However, particularly if you have a HDD and not a SSD, this evaluation can cause hard drive contention that interferes with other I/O that needs to happen.
They're definitely not “free”, so if you have collections you haven't used in a while, you may be able to regain some performance by deleting them or optimising the search filter rules they use.
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MJ. Smith said:
I think so because I started deleting collections that could be created on the fly to decrease my startup time and its seemed to help.
It is too bad if this is the case because I have taken a long time to develop collections over the years and most of them are not easy to create on the fly.
If this is the case I don't understand why they would have to cache each time I switch layouts and not just when Logos is first started.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Collections impose a cost on the system whether you’re “using them” or not, because they're featured in resource picker drop-downs across the application.
I didn't realize that it would be that significant.
However, particularly if you have a HDD and not a SSD, this evaluation can cause hard drive contention that interferes with other I/O that needs to happen.
I've used a SSD for years so I can only imagine how long it would take with a HDD.
They're definitely not “free”, so if you have collections you haven't used in a while, you may be able to regain some performance by deleting them or optimising the search filter rules they use.
Although that is disappointing I will probably do this to improve performance.
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These are your two most expensive collections, which take over 20s each to evaluate:
Author:("Alexander, Eric J.", "Alexander, Thomas", "Arnot, William", "Balfour, John Hutton", "Balfour, Robert G.", "Bannerman, James", "Barclay, William", "Barr, George K.", "Best, Ernest", "Binnie, William", "Binning, Hugh", "Black, Matthew", "Bonar, Andrew A.", "Bonar, Horatius", "Boston, Thomas", "Brown, David", "Brown, John", "Bruce, Alexander Balmain", "Bruce, John", "Buchanan, James", "Buchanan, Robert", "Calderwood, Henry", "Cameron, D. B.", "Campbell, Colin", "Campbell, Iain D.", "Candlish, James S.", "Candlish, Robert S.", "Carrick, J. C.", "Chalmers, Thomas", "Crawford, Thomas J.", "Cumming, John", "Cunningham, William", "Cunninghame, William", "Davidson, A. B.", "Davidson, Alexander D.", "Davidson, Peter", "Davidson, Robert", "Denney, James", "Dickson, David", "Dods, Marcus", "Douglas, George C. M.", "Dunlop, R. V.", "Eadie, John", "Easton, Matthew George", "Fairbairn, Patrick", "Fergusson, David", "Ferme, Charles", "Foote, James", "Forbes, John", "Fraser, James", "Galloway, Kathy", "Gillies, J. R.", "Gloag, Paton J.", "Grant, Maurice", "Guthrie, Thomas", "Hamilton, James", "Hastings, James", "Hutchison, John", "Jack, Alison", "Johnstone, Robert", "Keith, Alexander", "Kelly, Ewan", "Kistler, Don", "Knox, John", "Lang, John Marshall", "Laurie, Simon Somerville", "Law, Robert", "Lawson, George", "Leighton, Robert", "Lindsay, Thomas M.", "Lindsay, William", "Lyall, David", "M’Crie, Thomas", "MacDonald, Donald", "MacDougall, John", "MacKay, John L.", "Mackintosh, H. R.", "MacKnight, James", "MacLeod, Donald", "MacPherson, John", "Marriage, Sophia", "Martin, Hugh", "May, Alistair S.", "McCheyne, Robert Murray", "McKane, William", "Moffatt, James", "Nicoll, W. Robertson", "Orr, James", "Patterson, Alexander S.", "Paul, William", "Philip, William", "Provan, Iain W.", "Pulsford, John", "Raleigh, Alexander", "Re’emi, S. Paul", "Riggans, Walter", "Robertson, A. Irvine", "Robertson, David A", "Rutherford, Samuel", "Salmond, Stewart D. F.", "Skinner, John", "Smeaton, George", "Smith, George Adam", "Smith, William Robertson", "St. George’s Free Church", "Stalker, James", "Stuart, A. Moody", "Symington, William", "Taylor, William M.", "Thomson, Andrew (Broughton)", "Thomson, James", "Thomson, W. R.", "Torrance, David W.", "Torrance, Thomas F.", "Wells, James", "Whitelaw, Thomas", "Whyte, Alexander", "Wilson, Alistair", "Wylie, J. A.")
Author:("Abbott, Edwin A.", "Abbott, T. K.", "Abbott-Smith, G.", "Ackroyd, Peter R.", "Adam, Thomas", "Adams, H. C.", "Adams, Thomas", "Ainger, Thomas", "Ainsworth-Smith, Ian", "Airay, Henry", "Alexander, William Henry", "Alford, Henry", "Allain-Chapman, Justine", "Allen, Willoughby C.", "Allnutt, Richard Lea", "Andersen, Francis I.", "Anderson, Robert", "Andrewes, Lancelot", "Arnold, Thomas", "Ash, Christopher", "Ashby, Godfrey", "Askwith, E. H.", "Atherstone, Andrew", "Atkinson, David John", "Avis, Paul", "Backhouse, J. H.", "Bagdon, J. O.", "Bagot, Daniel", "Baldwin, Joyce", "Ball, C. J.", "Balleine, G. R.", "Bandinel, James", "Barclay, John", "Barnes, William Emery", "Barnett, Paul", "Barry, Alfred", "Bartholomew, Craig G.", "Bartlett, John R.", "Barton, George Aaron", "Barton, John", "Bassett, Francis Tilney", "Batten, Loring W.", "Bauckham, Richard J.", "Baxter, Richard", "Bayley, Emilius", "Bayne, Paul", "Beckwith, Roger", "Bedell, G. T.", "Begbie, Jeremy S.", "Benham, William", "Bennett, Dennis", "Benson, Edward White", "Berkeley, George", "Bernard, J. H.", "Bernard, Thomas Dehany", "Bigg, Charles", "Binns, L. Elliott", "Birks, Thomas Rawson", "Black, Ian", "Blenkin, G. W.", "Bloomfield, S. T.", "Blunt, Henry", "Blunt, John Henry", "Booty, John", "Borg, Marcus J.", "Borsch, Frederick H.", "Bost, A.", "Bouchier, Barton", "Boutflower, Charles", "Bowen, W. E.", "Box, G. H.", "Boxall, Ian", "Boyce, Edward Jacob", "Bradford, John", "Bradley, George Granville", "Bradshaw, Paul F.", "Bramhall, John", "Bray, Gerald", "Brenton, Lancelot Charles Lee", "Bridges, Charles", "Briggs, Charles Augustus", "Briggs, Emilie Grace", "Brightman, F. E.", "Bromiley, Geoffrey William", "Brown, Colin", "Browne, E. Harold", "Bubbers, Susan I.", "Bull, George", "Bullinger, Ethelbert W.", "Bullock, W. T.", "Burgon, John W.", "Burney, C. F.", "Burnside, W. F.", "Burridge, Richard A.", "Burrows, H. W.", "Burton, R. T.", "Bush, Joseph", "Bussell, F. W.", "Butler, Joseph", "Carey, Carteret Priaulx", "Carmichael, Liz", "Carpenter, Spencer Cecil", "Carr, Arthur", "Carr, Wesley", "Cartwright, Thomas", "Carwithen, John Bayley Somers", "Chadwick, G. A.", "Chadwick, Owen", "Challis, James", "Chandler, George", "Chapman, Mark", "Charles, R. H.", "Chase, Frederic Henry", "Cherry, Stephen", "Cheyne, Thomas Kelly", "Childe, C. F.", "Chilton, Bruce", "Church of England", "Church Service Society", "Churton, W. R.", "Clark, Samuel", "Clark, William", "Clarke, W. K. Lowther", "Close, Francis", "Cobb, John", "Cocksworth, Christopher John", "Coggins, Richard J.", "Cole, R. Alan", "Coleman, John Noble", "Colenso, John William", "Collinson, John", "Colquhoun, Frank", "Comfort, Philip W.", "Conybeare, W. D.", "Conybeare, W. J.", "Cook, F. C.", "Cooke, G. A.", "Cornes, Andrew", "Cosin, John", "Cotton, Robert", "Coverdale, Myles", "Cowper, William", "Craigie, Peter C.", "Cranmer, Thomas", "Croft, George", "Cruttwell, Charles Thomas", "Cullen, John", "Cureton, William", "Currey, G.", "Curteis, George Herbert", "Daubney, William Heaford", "Daubuz, Charles", "Davenant, John", "Davids, Peter H.", "Davies, James", "Davis, Ellen F.", "Deane, William J.", "Dearmer, Percy", "Deering, Edward", "Dell, William", "Denton, W.", "Desprez, P. S.", "Dewey, Joanna", "Diamond, A. R.", "Dickinson, Hercules H.", "Dimock, H.", "Dix, Gregory", "Donne, John", "Downing, Henry", "Drake, William", "Drane, John", "Driver, Samuel Rolles", "Drown, Edward S.", "Drummond, D. T. K.", "DuBose, William Porcher", "Duncombe, Augustus", "Durrant, Henry Bickersteth", "Duyckinck, George L.", "Eastburn, Manton", "Edalji, S.", "Edersheim, Alfred", "Edgar, David", "Edghill, Ernest Arthur", "Edmunds, John", "Edwards, Ruth", "Ellicott, Charles J.", "Elliott, C. J.", "Elliott, E. B.", "Elliott, Neil", "Elsley, Heneage", "Elton, Edward", "Emmet, Cyril W.", "Espin, T. E.", "Evans, Neil", "Eveleigh, John", "Faber, George Stanley", "Fape, M. Olusina", "Farrar, Frederic William", "Farrer, John", "Farwell, James", "Fausset, A. R.", "Fawcett, John", "Fenwick, John", "Field, Frederick", "Field, John Edward", "Finch, William", "Floyd, Michael", "Foley, George Cadwalader", "Ford, James", "Forster, Charles", "Forster, John", "Foxe, John", "France, R. T.", "Fremantle, W. H.", "French, William", "Fry, John", "Fulford, H. W.", "Fuller, J. M.", "Gandell, R.", "Garbett, James", "Gardiner, Frederic", "Garratt, Samuel", "Garrod, G. W.", "Gifford, E. H.", "Gilpin, William", "Girdlestone, Robert Baker", "Gisborne, James", "Glazebrook, M. G.", "Goddard, Charles", "Goldingay, John", "Gooder, Paula", "Goodwin, Harvey", "Gordon, Geoffrey", "Gore, Charles", "Gouge, William", "Goulburn, Edward Meyrick", "Gould, Ezra P.", "Govett, Robert", "Gowen, H. H.", "Grant, Anthony", "Grant, F. W.", "Grant, Frederick C.", "Grau, Marion", "Greaves, R. W.", "Green, Michael P.", "Gregg, J. A. F.", "Griffiths, J. S.", "Griffiths, Steve", "Gwynn, J.", "Gwynne, George John", "Hacking, Philip", "Halcombe, J. J.", "Hall, Charles Henry", "Hall, Francis J.", "Hannan, E. C. W.", "Hardy, Daniel", "Hardy, Nathanael", "Harpur, George", "Harrison, R. K.", "Harvey, John E.", "Hatch, Edwin", "Hawker, Robert", "Hawkins, John C.", "Hawkins, William", "Headlam, Arthur C.", "Heath, D. I.", "Heber, Reginald", "Hein, David", "Henson, H. Hensley", "Her Majesty’s Printing Office,", "Herbert, George", "Hervey, A. C.", "Heurtley, Charles A.", "Hewson, William", "Hillard, A. E.", "Hoare, J. Gurney", "Hobhouse, Walter", "Hodges, George", "Hodson, James", "Holland, Henry Scott", "Holland, Hezekiah", "Holmes, Christopher R. J.", "Holmes, Robert", "Hooker, Richard", "Hooper, William", "Hopkins, Ezekiel", "Horne, George", "Horne, Thomas", "Horsley, Samuel", "Hort, Fenton John Anthony", "Houghton, W.", "Howson, John S.", "Hughes, Philip Edgcumbe", "Hughes-Games, A.", "Hunt, Alfred Leedes", "Hutton, William Holden", "Huxtable, E.", "Inge, William Ralph", "Jackson, Blomfield", "Jacobson, William", "Jacox, Francis", "James, Montague Rhodes", "Jebb, John", "Jelf, Richard William", "Jelf, William Edward", "Jenkyn, William", "Jennings, A. C.", "Jervis, L. Ann", "Jewel, John", "Johnson, G. H. S.", "Jones, James", "Jones, John", "Jones, Maurice", "Jones, Spencer", "Jones, W. B.", "Jowett, Benjamin", "Jukes, Andrew", "Kay, W.", "Keble, John", "Kellner, Maximilian Lindsay", "Kelly, Brian E.", "Kelly, Francis", "Kelly, J. N. D.", "Kelly, James", "Ken, Thomas", "Kennett, Robert H.", "Ketley, Joseph", "Kidner, Derek", "King’s Chapel,", "Kingsbury, T. L.", "Knight, Jonathan", "Knowles, Andrew", "Knowling, R. J.", "Knox, E. M.", "Knox, Ian S.", "Kruse, Colin G.", "Kuhrt, Stephen", "Lake, Kirsopp", "Lamdin, Keith", "Lanchester, H. C. O.", "Landon, Edward H.", "Lang, Cosmo Gordon", "Latimer, Hugh", "Laud, William", "Laurence, Richard", "Law, Henry", "Law, William", "Lawlor, H. J.", "Le Mesurier, Thomas", "Lee, Frederick George", "Lee, Samuel", "Lee, William", "Lewis, John G.", "Lias, J. J.", "Liddell, Robert", "Liddon, Henry Parry", "Lightfoot, John", "Lightfoot, Joseph Barber", "Linton, Henry", "Littledale, Richard Frederick", "Lloyd, John", "Lock, Walter", "Lowe, W. H.", "Lowth, Robert", "Lucas, Dick", "Lucas, R. C.", "Lumby, J. Rawson", "Lupton, J. H.", "M’Ghee, Robert J.", "MacDermott, G. M.", "MacIntosh, A. A.", "Maclear, G. F.", "Macquarrie, John", "Maiers, Brian", "Maitland, S. R.", "Mangina, Joseph L.", "Mansel, H. L.", "Margoliouth, Moses", "Marriott, Charles", "Marston, Charles Dallas", "Mason, Arthur James", "Mason, W. T.", "Masterman, J. H. B.", "Maturin, B. W.", "Maurice, Frederick Denison", "Mayor, Joseph B.", "Mbiti, John", "McCaul, Alexander", "McDurmon, Joel", "McGrath, Alister", "McNeile, A. H.", "Medd, Peter Goldsmith", "Members of the University of Oxford", "Meyrick, F.", "Michell, R.", "Miller, Charles", "Millington, Thomas S.", "Moberly, George", "Moberly, R. C.", "Monro, Edward A.", "Montgomery, James A.", "Morgan, Aaron Augustus", "Morres, Robert", "Morris, Leon", "Motyer, J. Alec", "Moulaison, Jane Barter", "Moule, C. F. D.", "Moule, H. C. G.", "Moysey, C. A.", "Mozley, J. K.", "Mozley, James Bowling", "Muffet, Peter", "Munden, Alan", "Murray, J. O. F.", "Neale, John Mason", "Neil, C.", "Neve, Timothy", "Newcome, William", "Newitt, Mark", "Newland, Henry", "Newton, John", "Nicholls, Benjamin Elliott", "Nolland, John", "Norris, John Pilkington", "O’Brien, Peter T.", "O’Connor, Kathleen M.", "O’Conor, W. A.", "O’Donnell, Kevin", "Oakley, Nigel W.", "Oesterley, W. O. E.", "Ogilvie, Charles A.", "Olden, Thomas", "Owen, Henry", "Packer, J. I.", "Paley, William", "Palmer, William", "Park, J. R.", "Patrick, Simon", "Pearson, Chr. Ridley", "Pearson, John", "Peile, James H. F.", "Peile, Thomas Williamson", "Percy, Martyn", "Perowne, J. J. Stewart", "Pervo, Richard I.", "Peterson, David G.", "Pinder, John H.", "Plummer, Alfred A.", "Plumptre, E. H.", "Plumptre, Henry Scawen", "Polkinghorne, John", "Powys, David J.", "Price, Aubrey Charles", "Prideaux, Humphrey", "Procter, John", "Protestant Episcopal Church", "Pullan, Leighton", "Pusey, E. B.", "Quarry, John", "Radner, Ephraim", "Ramsey, Michael", "Randolph, Berkeley William", "Raven, Charles E.", "Rawlinson, George", "Redpath, Henry A.", "Reformed Episcopal Church", "Rendall, Frederic", "Rendall, Gerald H.", "Retief, Frank", "Reynolds, Edward", "Richey, Thomas", "Ridley, Nicholas", "Ritchie, Arthur", "Robertson, C. K.", "Robertson, F. W.", "Robinson, A. W.", "Robinson, Gnana", "Robinson, J. Armitage", "Rogers, George Albert", "Romaine, W.", "Rose, H. J.", "Rosner, Brian S.", "Ross, Allen", "Rossetti, Christina", "Row, Charles Adolphus", "Rowlandson, W. H.", "Rowley, Adam Clarke", "Rowling, Cathy", "Rushbrooke, W. G.", "Ryle, Herbert Edward", "Ryle, J. C.", "Sadler, M. F.", "Salmon, George", "Salmon, Marilyn J.", "Sanday, William", "Sanford, John", "Scott, Melville", "Scott, Robert", "Scratton, George", "Seitz, Christopher R.", "Selwyn, Edward Carus", "Selwyn, Edward Gordon", "Shanks, Andrew", "Shepard, Richard", "Shirley, Walter Augustus", "Short, Augustus", "Shute, Josias", "Sibbes, Richard", "Simcox, William Henry", "Simeon, Charles", "Simon, Patrick", "Skrine, John Huntley", "Smith, Herbert Maynard", "Smith, R. Payne", "Smith, Susan Marie", "Smith, Sydney", "Speck, Peter", "Spence, H. D. M.", "Spranger, R. J.", "Srawley, J. H.", "Stainer, John", "Stanley, Arthur Penrhyn", "Steenstra, P. H.", "Stevens, William Bacon", "Stevenson, John", "Stock, Eugene", "Stock, John", "Stock, Joseph", "Stock, Richard", "Stonard, John", "Stone, Darwell", "Stott, John", "Stowell, Hugh", "Streane, A. W.", "Strong, Leonard", "Strong, Thomas B.", "Sumner, George", "Sumner, John Bird", "Swain, Storm", "Swete, Henry Barclay", "Sykes, Stephen", "Tait, Arthur J.", "Tatham, Edward", "Taylor, Charles", "Taylor, Jeremy", "Taylor, John B.", "Tellini, Gian", "Temple, Frederick", "Temple, William", "Terrot, C. H.", "Terry, Justyn", "The Church of England,", "The Episcopal Church", "The Protestant Episcopal Church,", "Thiselton, Anthony C.", "Thomas, Griffith", "Thorndike, Herbert", "Thrall, Margaret E.", "Threlfall-Holmes, Miranda", "Thrupp, Joseph Francis", "Tickle, Phyllis", "Tinker, Melvin", "Tisdall, William St. Clair", "Titley, Robert", "Todd, James F.", "Toller, T. N.", "Tomlin, Graham", "Toplady, Augustus M.", "Torr, Stephen C.", "Towner, Philip H.", "Travis, Stephen", "Trench, Richard Chenevix", "Trollope, W.", "Turner, Samuel H.", "Tyng, Stephen H.", "Ulrich, Dean R.", "Underhill, Evelyn", "Ussher, James", "Vaughan, Charles John", "Venables, Edmund", "Venn, John", "Vibert, Simon", "Vincent, John Heyl", "Vogan, Thomas S. L.", "Wace, Henry", "Wagner, George", "Waite, Joseph", "Waldengrave, Samuel", "Walker, Paul", "Walker, Thomas", "Walton, Kevin", "Walton, Steve", "Waple, Edward", "Ward, Bernard", "Ward, Robin", "Water, Mark", "Watkins, Henry Williams", "Webb, Barry G.", "Webber, Robert", "Wells, Jo Bailey", "Wells, Samuel", "Wenham, David", "Wenham, Gordon J.", "Wesley, Charles", "Wesley, John", "Westcott, Brooke Foss", "Westoby, Amos", "Weston, Frank", "Whately, Richard", "Wheaton, N. S.", "Whitacre, Rodney A.", "Whitefield, George", "Whybray, R. N.", "Wickham, E. C.", "Wilberforce, Samuel", "Wilberforce, William", "Wilcock, Michael", "Wilcox, Pete", "Willet, Andrew", "Williams, A. Lukyn", "Williams, David J.", "Williams, Isaac", "Williams, John", "Williamson, James", "Wilson, Daniel", "Wilson, Henry Bristow", "Winterbotham, Rayner", "Wintle, Thomas", "Wood, William Spicer", "Woodgate, Henry Arthur", "Woodhouse, John", "Woodward, James", "Wordsworth, John", "Wright, Arthur", "Wright, Charles Henry Hamilton", "Wright, Christopher J. H.", "Wright, J. Robert", "Wright, N. T.", "Wright, Thomas", "Yates, Timothy", "Yee, Gale A.", "Zahl, Paul F. M.") OR Publisher:("SPCK") OR Abbrev:("CPC")
Try deleting maybe just those two and seeing if that helps things? You should be able to recreate them easily by pasting in the rules from this post.
(Additionally, the collection filter system was not built anticipating large collection rules like this. I think there are ways we can improve the performance of collections like this and I am creating a case for that.)
Bruce Dunning said:However, particularly if you have a HDD and not a SSD, this evaluation can cause hard drive contention that interferes with other I/O that needs to happen.
I've used a SSD for years so I can only imagine how long it would take with a HDD.
I only mentioned HDD because I saw some delays logged that I wouldn't expect on an SSD [:(] What brand/model do you have and how old is it?
Also, how big is this file: C:\Users\bdunning\AppData\Local\Logos5\Documents\lyvikjbt.35g\LayoutManager\layouts.db
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Bruce Dunning said:
It is too bad if this is the case because I have taken a long time to develop collections over the years and most of them are not easy to create on the fly.
Same here. Terrible news.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Try deleting maybe just those two and seeing if that helps things? You should be able to recreate them easily by pasting in the rules from this post.
(Additionally, the collection filter system was not built anticipating large collection rules like this. I think there are ways we can improve the performance of collections like this and I am creating a case for that.)
Well Bradley, I spent several hours going through all my collections and culling out a massive amount of them. I also deleted the two collections which were Scottish Presbyterian and Anglican authors. Then I shut down Logos and restarted it. But, I'm sad to report that it took 5 minutes and 10 seconds to boot it up. Quite disappointing to say the least.
The collections that I've been using have been as a result of the Faithlife Group on denominational collections which I shared. I'm not sure what to do now.
I only mentioned HDD because I saw some delays logged that I wouldn't expect on an SSD
What brand/model do you have and how old is it?
My SSD is just over a year old and is a Samsung 840 EVO 500GB.
Also, how big is this file: C:\Users\bdunning\AppData\Local\Logos5\Documents\lyvikjbt.35g\LayoutManager\layouts.db
It is 230 MB.
Is there any hope for me? [:S]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
But, I'm sad to report that it took 5 minutes and 10 seconds to boot it up. Quite disappointing to say the least.
Okay, I decided to restart my computer and try it again to have a fresh start since there may have been other things running in the background. This time it took 2 minutes and 55 seconds which is better but not great. I should also mention that I really simplified my layout. I only had 13 resources open on one main window. I really think this should be better than close to 3 minutes. Do you agree?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
I really think this should be better than close to 3 minutes. Do you agree?
I do.
At the moment, we're still mostly guessing at the cause of the performance issue. Without a detailed performance trace from your computer, we won't really know what's causing the slowdown.
I'll ask the desktop team to get in contact with you to help track this down.
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Hi Bruce,
In view of Bradley's last post, regarding referral to the desk top team, it would be great if you could keep us all informed on this thread of any resolution to your problem.
Thanks and blessings,
Gary
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(Additionally, the collection filter system was not built anticipating large collection rules like this. I think there are ways we can improve the performance of collections like this and I am creating a case for that.)
Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the need for such large collections rules based on theological/denominational categories, by having FL tag the resources for us?
Since the collection cache is rebuilt each time the application is launched, it would be far more efficient if these types of filter collection rules could be reduced to a single criteria to match a specific theology or denomination.
The Logos Library Theology/Denomination Tags group has over 1300 followers. I imagine there have been suggestions over the years for FL to implement that type of tagging for us!
Perhaps the collection cache could only be rebuilt when out-of-date (such as when the library was updated/indexed), instead of every time the application launches?
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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I'll ask the desktop team to get in contact with you to help track this down.
Thanks!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Gary Mendenhall said:
In view of Bradley's last post, regarding referral to the desk top team, it would be great if you could keep us all informed on this thread of any resolution to your problem.
I will do Gary. I hope we can all learn from it.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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PetahChristian said:
Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the need for such large collections rules based on theological/denominational categories, by having FL tag the resources for us?
Since the collection cache is rebuilt each time the application is launched, it would be far more efficient if these types of filter collection rules could be reduced to a single criteria to match a specific theology or denomination.
The Logos Library Theology/Denomination Tags group has over 1300 followers. I imagine there have been suggestions over the years for FL to implement that type of tagging for us!
This has been suggested before but perhaps there is more reason to do so now, if indeed collections are responsible. But it makes me wonder...if there are 1300 others using these collection rules why would more people not be experiencing the same slowdowns I have experienced? If anyone else has these collections could you let us know whether you have experienced any performance issues as a result?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
Okay, now I'm jealous. I just tried my two most popular layouts. The most complex one still took 2 1/2 minutes and the other one took 1 1/2 minute.
If you upload logs, we'll be able to see a little of where the delay is coming from. If you've got an i5 and an SSD, anything over 30 seconds would point to either an error, or a VERY inefficient visual filter IMO.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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PetahChristian said:
Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the need for such large collections rules based on theological/denominational categories, by having FL tag the resources for us?
Since the collection cache is rebuilt each time the application is launched, it would be far more efficient if these types of filter collection rules could be reduced to a single criteria to match a specific theology or denomination.
In the meantime, you can tag the resources yourself.
Paste the rule into the Library filter box, select all the resources, and apply a tag to all of them. Then change your collection rule to just look for that tag.
(You'd have to redo this after every new purchase of resources that might be included in these rules.)
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Mark Barnes said:
If you upload logs, we'll be able to see a little of where the delay is coming from. If you've got an i5 and an SSD, anything over 30 seconds would point to either an error, or a VERY inefficient visual filter IMO.
I uploaded logs last night which is shown on page one of this thread but here is a copy for convenience - 5074.Logos.log
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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PetahChristian said:
Perhaps the collection cache could only be rebuilt when out-of-date (such as when the library was updated/indexed), instead of every time the application launches?
Metadata often gets updated on application launch, which would invalidate the collection cache.
However, the collection cache doesn't wait for metadata (inc. community metadata) to finish updating before it begins. That means you can end up with the collection cache being updated two or three times, as it's constantly being invalidated by the new metadata.
Fixing that wouldn't make a huge difference, but it would help on some occasions, I think. For example, in the log below, the collection cache is updated three times on startup (taking 13.26s, 11.74s and 11.62s on each occasion). The second one is begun right in the middle of a bunch of community metadata updates, which seems particularly wasteful.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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In the meantime, you can tag the resources yourself.
Paste the rule into the Library filter box, select all the resources, and apply a tag to all of them. Then change your collection rule to just look for that tag.
That is one option but....
(You'd have to redo this after every new purchase of resources that might be included in these rules.)
This is the exact reason why it is not an attractive option.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
I uploaded logs last night which is shown on page one of this thread but here is a copy for convenience - 5074.Logos.log
Sorry I missed that.
- Your biggest problem is your layouts database file. That's horribly slow, and it's being run multiple times.
- shortcuts.db is also very bad. One query on that database took 22.5s (admittedly in parallel with other queries), but that should be a tiny file that's super-quick. However, this is accessed less often, so it has less overall impact.
- Your collections are also dragging things down, and they were generated three times during this startup (see my post above). They take a minute to update each time. I'm not sure you can blame Logos for that when you have 572 collections! I would imagine that a large number of those you don't use regularly, and could just recreate using quick collections if/when you need them. Many of them have errors in or are unnecessarily complex. For example, Commentary AND (Subject:N.T.Hebrews,Title:"Horae Homileticae Vol. 19") OR type:”bible commentary” AND (title:hebrews OR subject:hebrews), could be re-written simply as type:bible-commentary subject:"N. T. Hebrews".
I don't really understand why layouts.db is so slow. If you uploaded it (and shorcuts.db), I could take a look. You'll need to zip them first if you want to do that.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Incidentally, your most expensive collections are:
- mytag:CommentaryHistorical
- Author:("Alden, Robert L.", "Allen, Desmond", "Baptist Bible College", "Beale, David", "Bl…
- type:bible-commentary series:("A Commentary on the Book of Genesis", "An Exegetical Commen…
- type:bible-commentary (series:("A Bible Commentary in the Wesleyan Tradition", "An Exposit…
- Author:("Abendroth, Mike", "Abernathy, David", "Adams, W. Milton", "Addington, Gordon L.",…
- Author:("Bates, William", "Baxter, Richard", "Beeke, Joel R.", "Brook, Benjamin", "Brooks,…
- Author:("Abraham, William J.", "Albers, Robert H.", "Albright, W. F.", "Allen, O. Wesley",…
- type:bible-commentary series:("A Library of Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church", "Ancient…
- Author:(“Acklin, Thomas”, “Althann, Robert”, “Armstrong, Dave”, “Attridge, Harold W.”, “Ba…
- Author:("Adams, W. Milton", "Advent Source", "Anderson, Bruce", "Andrews University", "Bac…
- Author:(“Baxter,Richard”, “Brook,Benjamin”, “Brooks,Thomas”, “Bunyan,John”, “Burroughs,Jer…
- Author:("à Brakel, Wilhelmus", "Abernathy, David", "Achtemeier, Elizabeth", "Achtemeier, P…
- Author:(“Stevens, W. C.”, “Tozer, A. W.”)
- Author:("Reformed Episcopal Church", "Whitacre, Rodney A.")
- Author:("Abbott, Edwin A.", "Abbott, T. K.", "Abbott-Smith, G.", "Ackroyd, Peter R.", "Ada…
- Author:("Aageson, James W.", "Abbe, Paul", "Abbott, Edwin A.", "Abbott, T. K.", "Abraham, …
- Author:(“Albright, W. F.”, “Anderson, Cheryl”, “Banks, J. S.”, “Barker, Margaret”, “Barret…
- Author:(“Freeman, James”, “Mace, Daniel”, “Palfrey, J. G.”, “Parker, Theodore”, “Sawyer, L…
- mytag:free ANDNOT mytag:perseus
- Author:("Adar, Zvi", "Bamberger, Bernard J.", "Bar-Efrat, Shimon", "Benisch, Abraham", "Be…
- title:"moody handbook of theology" OR title:"Compendium of Christian Theology" OR title:".…
- Author:(“Anders, Max”, “Anderson, Kenton C.”, “Ankerberg, John”, “Archer, Clint”, “Baban, …
- Author:("Baptist Bible College", "Central Baptist Theological Seminary", "Central Conserva…
- Author:(“Anderson, Neil T.”, “Baker, Heidi”, “Baker, Rolland”, “Batterson, Mark”, “Bennett…
- Author:("Abraham, William J.", "Achtemeier, Elizabeth", "Achtemeier, Paul J.", "Adamson, J…
- Author:(“Andrew of Crete”, “Augustine of Hippo”, “Basil the Great”, “Benedict of Nursia”, …
- Author:("Abraham, William J.", "Albers, Robert H.", "Albright, W. F.", "Allen, O. Wesley",…
- Encyclopedia AND subject:(Bible,Christian,History,Religion,Theology)
- Author:("Abelard, Peter", "Alighieri, Dante", "Anselm of Canterbury", "Anthony of Padua", …
This seems to suggest Logos is struggling with denominational collections (understandable because they're very complex), with collections based on tags (perhaps understandable if you have thousands or tens of thousands of tags), plus a few others that don't make much sense.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
- Your biggest problem is your layouts database file. That's horribly slow, and it's being run multiple times.
- shortcuts.db is also very bad. One query on that database took 22.5s (admittedly in parallel with other queries), but that should be a tiny file that's super-quick. However, this is accessed less often, so it has less overall impact.
Thanks for taking time to look at this. I've known that it was slow for a long time but have just been putting off looking into it until now.
Mark Barnes said:Your collections are also dragging things down, and they were generated three times during this startup (see my post above). They take a minute to update each time. I'm not sure you can blame Logos for that when you have 572 collections! I would imagine that a large number of those you don't use regularly, and could just recreate using quick collections if/when you need them. Many of them have errors in or are unnecessarily complex. For example, Commentary AND (Subject:N.T.Hebrews,Title:"Horae Homileticae Vol. 19") OR type:”bible commentary” AND (title:hebrews OR subject:hebrews), could be re-written simply as type:bible-commentary subject:"N. T. Hebrews".
I'm certainly not blaming Faithlife for the number of collections I have. Many of the collections that I had were generated from joining Faithlife groups and I have also been putting off cleaning them up. Last night I did and now only have 140. 67 of these are composed of Theology/Denominations Tags in Faithlife and the others are not easy to create on the fly. I only have 10 Bible commentary collections
Mark Barnes said:I don't really understand why layouts.db is so slow. If you uploaded it (and shorcuts.db), I could take a look. You'll need to zip them first if you want to do that.
I'll try to do this later when I have a few minutes.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Is the shortcuts.db related to the shortcut icons on the top of the screen? I feel adding or deleting those icons is very slow, maybe some inherent problem in it? I confess I have many shortcut icons.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Veli Voipio said:
Is the shortcuts.db related to the shortcut icons on the top of the screen? I feel adding or deleting those icons is very slow, maybe some inherent problem in it? I confess I have many shortcut icons.
That's correct. Personally, I've noticed no slowness, but Bruce certainly seems to have an issue.
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Mark Barnes said:
I don't really understand why layouts.db is so slow. If you uploaded it (and shorcuts.db), I could take a look. You'll need to zip them first if you want to do that.
Mark, I don't think this is possible. My zipped layouts.db file is 87.5 MB so it won't upload, unless I'm doing something wrong. Suggestions?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Mark Barnes said:
This seems to suggest Logos is struggling with denominational collections (understandable because they're very complex), with collections based on tags (perhaps understandable if you have thousands or tens of thousands of tags), plus a few others that don't make much sense.
For sure this is an issue but I think I may be experiencing something else as well since removing two of the larger ones as Bradley suggested didn't help at all.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
I just uploaded them to your dropbox. Thanks for taking a look at them Mark as this is certainly not my forte.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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PetahChristian said:
(Additionally, the collection filter system was not built anticipating large collection rules like this. I think there are ways we can improve the performance of collections like this and I am creating a case for that.)
Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the need for such large collections rules based on theological/denominational categories, by having FL tag the resources for us?
Since the collection cache is rebuilt each time the application is launched, it would be far more efficient if these types of filter collection rules could be reduced to a single criteria to match a specific theology or denomination.
The Logos Library Theology/Denomination Tags group has over 1300 followers. I imagine there have been suggestions over the years for FL to implement that type of tagging for us!
Perhaps the collection cache could only be rebuilt when out-of-date (such as when the library was updated/indexed), instead of every time the application launches?
This suggestion (https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-7/suggestions/9285627-library-hierarchy-and-filtering) isn't exactly the same, but the way I understand it, it incorporates this suggestion, so people reading this thread may want to consider voting for it. I think each author could have their denomination saved within the database and remove a great deal of the problem. Each author (with perhaps one exception out of over 6000 authors currently classified) has just one denomination stream and one denomination. There are only a small number of other collections within the group mentioned.
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