Logos Available on Torrents

I agree it's a massive shame.

A while back, Bob wrote about that,What Happens When You Steal a Bible - Logos Bible Software Blog

I commented on that here: What Happens When You Steal a Bible | Truth is Still Truth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8703#Comment_8703

I read on the Still Truth site they were seeding a torrent of PBBs. I think that was just a delivery method they are experimenting with. Nothing illegal about that particular torrent but some would question the wisdom of using the same tools the underbelly of the net uses.

I thought the Logos licensing system would prevent the pirated stuff but I guess Satan never sleeps. It still seems kind of bizarre to steal Bible software. I can't imagine a saved person enjoying a peaceful conscience using stolen software.

Rodney Prickett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8748#Comment_8748

no different, if you think about it, than pirating copies of Christian music cd's and Gaither videos, or churches duplicating print music.

All is illegal and stealing.

John McComb

While looking around for some (legal) torrents, I searched for Logos just to see....

Torrents? What on earth are you guys talking about?

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8802#Comment_8802

My wife and I were in a Family Christian store Monday. We were looking at some Youth materials. One of them was a book with a CD. Someone had stolen the CD and left the book.

The store has a security system - those giant things you have to pass through to get out the door. I talked to the store manager for awhile and he said they STILL have problems with theft.

I was blown away, just as I was with my torrent discovery. I still would like an answer from Logos if it is OK to download the PBB files. I assume it is, but I don't want to do it without an OK.

Jerry

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8802#Comment_8802

Here's my thoughts.

I have used Logos for a little over 2 years and I have been amazed at the number of free software specials that have been offered and the willingness for Logos staff to listen to our concerns and do something about it. (for example transfering licenses).

Not only would using the software illegally would be stealing, I also think it could be viewed by Logos as a stab in the back given how much they do for us customers.

I guess I just want Logos to know that even though the illegal software is out there there are many (myself included) who are loyal to Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8802#Comment_8802

While looking around for some (legal) torrents, I searched for Logos just to see....

Torrents? What on earth are you guys talking about?

Brother Jerry, torrents are how most hackers/pirates transmit and download illegal (i.e. "pirated", neither legal nor properly paid for) software such as Photoshop, MicroSoft operating systems, music CDs and DVDs and such ... and now, sadly and sinfully, apparently Bible software, too.

However, torrent is apparently also utilized to transmit large legal, free software and other files such as the non-copyrighted and/or copyright expired PBB, Personal Book Builder, Logos files. I assume (not always a wise thing to do where the internet is concerned) this is done because it is a faster and/or more efficient way to transmit large files or multiple files???

Hope that helps!

Debra

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8827#Comment_8827

I still would like an answer from Logos if it is OK to download the PBB files. I assume it is, but I don't want to do it without an OK.

The PBB files are all freely distributable with the single rule being that I (or anyone) can not make money on them.
As for the vehicle of Torrent being used to distribute them, I fail to see why the vehicle would be a problem.

I once heard of a thief who drove a pickup truck to steal an ATM machine. I am not tempted to get rid of my truck for that reason.
Similarly I understand that most software thieves use computers to run their stolen goods, and many of them burn stolen software onto CD's but that does not mean computers or CD's are somehow tainted by that.

Bittorrent may in fact be used to distribute stolen goods but it is a completely reliable and legal distribution system. Legitimate companies like FOX, Sega, MTv (yuck), Netgear, Lions Gates films, Paramount pictures and many others use bittorrent to legally distribute their own content.

Finally, The Libronix PBB standard edition page states:

“the standard edition of the Libronix Personal Book Builder, which allows free distribution of created resources to other Logos Bible Software users.
--Personal Book Builder - Standard Edition

Torrent away. No worries.

:-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8842#Comment_8842

I assume (not always a wise thing to do where the internet is concerned) this is done because it is a faster and/or more efficient way to transmit large files or multiple files???

That's right Debra. The current load of PBB's hosted on my site mount to multiple gigabytes of data. Bittorrent was actually created to transmit that much data.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8842#Comment_8842

Ooops, typo alert. Prior post should have been addressed to John.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8850#Comment_8850

I just use the little "PBB Updater" (works fine with my Vista64) to keep up with my copyright expired, legal PBB Logos files which a generous Logos user over at Still Truth site developed and made freely available to us. Works for me, but then I have a high speed broadband connection and I don't automatically DL every PBB available.

Thank you for the website, BTW, as well!

Debra

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8854#Comment_8854

Thank you for the website, BTW, as well!

You're welcome!

Brian Whalen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8842#Comment_8842

There are some who are opposed to paying for Christian ministry, perhaps this is their rebellion?

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8802#Comment_8802

Torrents? What on earth are you guys talking about?

Torrents are efficient way of distributing large amounts of data. For example if you want to download multiple gigabytes of data form Truth is Still Truth, the download would count against Thomas' account, as well as use a large amount of bandwidth during the download. But with a torrent, Thomas can "seed" it, and after the the first person downloads it, and also "seeds" it, the second person downloads it from both of them, cutting the download in half from each seeder. As many people begin to "seed" it, the average bandwidth drops more and more. It's like getting a cup of water from a thousand different people, versus getting it all from one tanker truck..

This is all managed through Bit Torrent software on each machine.

The problem is that, as stated earlier, it is mostly used for illegal and questionable files. Internet service providers know this, and tend to limit the speed of torrents ( although they will say that they are only limiting high internet traffic, limiting torrents specifically has become illegal )

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8867#Comment_8867

There are some who are opposed to paying for Christian ministry, perhaps this is their rebellion?

For the Scripture says: Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain, and, the worker is worthy of his wages.
1 Timothy 5:18

Although it would seem that some are more worthy than others, especially in the Christian entertainment industry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8916#Comment_8916

PAUL-

Thank you for the very thorough, informative explanation of what torrents are and how they work.

Debra

John McComb

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8842#Comment_8842

Brother Jerry, torrents are how most hackers/pirates transmit and download illegal (i.e. "pirated", neither legal nor properly paid for) software such as Photoshop, MicroSoft operating systems, music CDs and DVDs and such

Oh, o.k. thanks, however my name is John. I think brother Jerry already knows what torrents are since he brought it up.

Man, it's like trying to keep up with adolescent slang. Some years ago I laughed at my young son the first time I saw him sporting his 3 sizes too large trousers dangling so low on his backside that most of his underwear was exposed. Boy, did he ever get mad at me for that. Good thing that I didn't know that it was gang banger, prison fashion or I might have been the one who got mad.

However, torrent is apparently also utilized to transmit large legal, free software and other files such as the non-copyrighted and/or copyright expired PBB, Personal Book Builder, Logos files.

Well sure, why not. It's just software.

Yours in Christ

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8923#Comment_8923

JOHN opined:

"Man, it's like trying to keep up with adolescent slang."

Indeed! [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8827#Comment_8827

I still would like an answer from Logos if it is OK to download the PBB files. I assume it is, but I don't want to do it without an OK.

Jerry

It isn't really a legal issue but a safety question. I would highly recommend you avoid the torrent route and get the PBBs straight from Still Truth or other mirrors. Unless you KNOW your good torrent's hash value and take lots of precautions, you will end up regretting it. I have cleaned a lot of people's computers of a lot of disgusting and damaging stuff because they used P2P file sharing. Even some files on CNET are infected. One website I scanned had 25% infected Public Domain files. It is just too risky.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8916#Comment_8916

This is all managed through Bit Torrent software on each machine.

If not properly configured you could unintentionally expose many private files and copyrighted software on your computer to the whole file sharing world. Years ago I received warning from Microsoft that I had my whole MSDN drive in share mode on my computer.

One way software vendors combat piracy is to seed corrupt torrents to waste time and resources of theives. But the bad guys also seed corrupted torrents that have spyware and porn redirects in them.

The whole resource sharing idea behind Peer-To-Peer dates back to ADA (a distributed Defense Department operating system.) It is great in theory but when you add evil intent to the mix it becomes a bad day waiting to happen.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8986#Comment_8986

Matthew, thank you. To your both posts I say 100% agreed. The "river" of torrents is so polluted that to fish there is very risky. Anyways, most good and "not contaminated fish" you can find on other places.

David Buckham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/9548#Comment_9548

Psalm 18:4b NASB

"And the torrents of ungodliness terrified me."

How's that for proof texting?

all about Christ,
David

CopyLeft

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/8748#Comment_8748

Citizens of a capitalistic country who live by selling every thought they think, or every word they write, or every thing they make will not understand how "saved" persons enjoy "peaceful conscience" after using "stolen" software.

The numerical system you use is the Hindu-Arabic numerical system. Each time you use these numerical symbols, are you paying a license fee to inhabitants of the Arab or Hindu world? The number 0 constitutes half of all digital data. It was invented by an Indian. In other words, half of all digital data (comprising of just zeroes and ones) belong to India. If you decide to pay for it, will you be able to? You make copyright and license laws according to your convenience and impose it on the world.

You talk about ownership of songs and lyrics. How much money did you pay David or any of his descendants to use his psalms? How much money did you pay the Jews to use their Hebrew Bible?

It is high time you learn from Christians in the developing world. We write songs and give it away. The most famous of our lyricists died in poverty. They never regretted their decision to give away their valuable lyrics to the Church. These songs get translated from one language to the other. No one here is bothered about selling rights to churches or individuals. Similarly, our sermons/books/presentations/magazine articles are available on the internet for free. (There are now some of us who are learning to sell each sermon or song; they too are now learning from you to say that they "own" their works).

How do you think a person in the Majority World can pay $500 or $800 for a Christian software or a set of commentary? There may be just a handful of Christians here who can afford to do so. Most evangelists and pastors in India live on $60 a month! Buying a PC (The Mac - your favorite machine - is way too expensive for us) is like buying a Merc. After we save up and buy a PC, we are left with no money to buy software. Yet, you do not offer a reduced rate for ministers or students from the Majority World. We can't afford your software. At the same time, we can't afford to be in the dark. When you light a candle with another candle, the first candle doesn't lose any of it's flame.

It's easy to preach about the boy who gave up his lunch so that Jesus could feed the five thousand. Would you have done it, if you were in that boy's place, without signing a contract to receive royalty for each loaf and fish that Jesus created?

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279150#Comment_279150

GRR - this is why we should lock old threads - previous last post is Sat, Sep 12 2009 11:54 PM

Phillip, Logos (to my knowledge) always has given the engine freely, its only he resources we wish to have, we pay for.

Even in the third/developing world, those with the resouces (food, skills) exchange/sell them for a fee or barter them in excange for food etc they are rarely given away totally free.. I am sorry but Logos has noting to do with how the publishers choose to distribute their goods, and how much they demand in royalies per copy sold..

There are several Good free alternatives out there should you be not in a position to afford Logos, this is a Logos forum so I wont post the link but if you search for "The Word" you will likely find something that may fill your need, but if you NEED Logos, God has a mysterious way of providing for our needs, he will make it happen if he wants you to have it..

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279150#Comment_279150

Citizens of a capitalistic country

Citizens of a socialist country are accustomed to receiving free handouts of lesser quality The capitalists also provide some free Bible software, if that is what you are asking for. In the book of Ruth we see Boaz harvests his crops, leaving just the gleanings for the poor. In the book of Acts Peter tells Ananias and Sapphira their land and money were theirs to do with as they pleased. They died for lying to the Holy Spirit, not for keeping their money back.

If you can steal to meet your needs without a guilty conscience, why should God bother blessing you? He already knows you will satisfy your desires by theft and don't need Him........

God loves a cheerful giver. Nobody likes to be stolen from. not even God. Malachi 3:10

I know of a source in കേരളം that will provide you many commentaries and Christian study materials in software for FREE. I don't think they give away computers, though.

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279259#Comment_279259

If it wasn't for capitalism, I'd be reading my printed Bible (maybe) and be praising God for it. But capitalism and the possibility of a profit coupled with a love for God and His Word drove Bob Pritchett to devote his life and risk an incredible amount on the venture that became Logos Bible Software and culminated in the software that we enjoy. Nothing wrong with paying. The laborer deserves his wages.

Thanks, Logos

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279150#Comment_279150

I love when an old thread gets resurrected...[;)]

Point of fact:

I deserve nothing from no one.
If someone makes, builds, writes, or in any other way creates something that he or she deems of value, no one (regardless of the product produced) has any right to say what is a fair or unfair price for it.
If someone is selling something, and I think that the price is what I'm willing to pay, I buy it. If I think that it is too high, I don't buy it.

Now granted, modern philosophical thought will most assuredly disagree with the first two points, but then again, modern philosophical thought would think us fools for desiring Bible software in the first place.

CopyLeft

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279321#Comment_279321

@Paul Golder,

Point taken. But in the usual sense of the word, when I "buy" something, I own it and I can do whatever I want to do with it. It's none of the seller's business to find out what I do with a product that I buy. Imposing conditions that curtail a buyer's freedom doesn't seem right to me. If after "selling" the software, the software still belongs to the seller, then, let's not talk of "buying" and "selling."

@Super Tramp: "Handout" in a capitalistic country is fashionably called "[trillion dollar] government bail out." But it's still is a handout.

Sorry for "resurrecting" an old forum. I am putting this back to sleep. Bye!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279330#Comment_279330

But in the usual sense of the word, when I "buy" something, I own it and I can do whatever I want to do with it.

The problem here is with your misunderstanding of the relationship between users and the software companies. You are not buying the software. You are purchasing an "End User License Agreement" that entitles you to use the software conditionally.

Consider the recent purchase of QuickVerse by WordSearch and then WordSearch/QuickVerse by LifeWay. When ownership changes hands so does the decision making power. For the moment, LifeWay has stated they will retain the WordSearch staff and keep the QuickVerse software line alive. Purchasing ownership of the Logos software costs a lot more than your EULA. You will know you own Logos when you have the power to hire a new CEO, cancel all Pre-Pubs you don't agree with, and give the software away for free. Until then your compliance will be governed by your conscience (maybe,) the government (possibly,) and God (definitely.)

"Handout" in a capitalistic country is fashionably called "[trillion dollar] government bail out."

Don't blame capitalism for "trillion-dollar-handouts." Government cradle-to-grave provision is something our current society learned from Marx. Check out these two Logos resources to learn more:

Why Government Can't Save You by John MacArthur
Seven Men Who Rule the World from the Grave by Dave Breese

(for the rest of us: Just view an EULA like a drivers license that does not expire. You don't own the highway, you just get to use it conditionally. [au])

Gabriel Smit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279371#Comment_279371

...there is none that seeketh after God.

rom 3 11

no use us comparing sinners with sinners in a vain attempt to get a 'one-upmanship' feeling to stroke our own pride - as if i am by nature closer to God than hitler - the only way to get to the Father is well known to us (john 14 6), as long as we are not in Christ, we are all hellbound - guaranteed!

God bless

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/294417#Comment_294417

no use us comparing sinners with sinners in a vain attempt to get a 'one-upmanship' feeling to stroke our own pride - as if i am by nature closer to God than hitler - the only way to get to the Father is well known to us (john 14 6), as long as we are not in Christ, we are all hellbound - guaranteed!

True, Gabriel. But you are speaking of kingdom economics (the only reality that matters.)

The post I was answering claimed "If I buy something, I own it." so we know our discussion was limited in scope to the temporal world. No matter how hard we try to do one-upmanship of "My government cares more than your's does." the reality is; in God's economy, the blood of Jesus is powerful enough to wash away the sin of even Jeffrey Dahmer or Adolph Hitler. There are a lot of Christians who get mad when you suggest Jesus could save everyone.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/279371#Comment_279371

Government cradle-to-grave provision is something our current society learned from Marx.

Can we please park politics at the door (home page) - we come from many countries with many political systems and political beliefs. When we walk through the door (click on the forum page) we're hoping for Logos/Scripture study.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/294817#Comment_294817

Can we please park politics at the door

The previous post was last August I'm perfectly willing to forget two month old posts if you will ......

The criticism of Americans & calling Logos liars (remember, you said it was somewhat justified?)... Well that was just this week. If you would go after the first posts that single out a group for attack, maybe it would look like you really cared. But I only see your protest when it is your ox getting gored.

Re-examine these "offensive" threads and you will see, the posts you are responding to are reactions to an original offense. Cause & effect.

edit: I can be a Christian in a Democracy, a Constitutional Republic, a Socialist nation, a Communist nation, a dictatorship, a monarchy, even as an anarchist. Some may be easier than others but the Apostle Paul benefited frequently from his citizenship in a world-dominating empire. btw: my politics don't fit in any of the aforementioned systems.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/294835#Comment_294835

The criticism of Americans & calling Logos liars (remember, you said it was somewhat justified?)... Well that was just this week. If you would go after the first posts that single out a group for attack, maybe it would look like you really cared. But I only see your protest when it is your ox getting gored.

My apologies - I did not (and usually don't) check the date of each post in a thread marked "unread". That does cause me to make error in judgment when an old thread is revived.

But I only see your protest when it is your ox getting gored.

I'm sorry you see it this way - I try very hard to be even handed when trying to calm an unpleasant situation. However, I am interested in the Ox - I assume you're referring to the Chinese Chan Buddhist work in which the Ox represents the unbridled, false human mind. That would explain why my ox has been Berean, Jewish, Islamic, Catholic, Scandinavian, Marxist, philosophical, scientific, historical ...

Re-examine these "offensive" threads and you will see, the posts you are responding to are reactions to an original offense. Cause & effect.

I often co-lead a workshop on Living Well with Chronic Illness that is built around (among other things) a cycle of symptoms that easily becomes a vicious cycle. If you can break the cycle at any point you can get out of the vicious circle and improve the situation. The same is true in the forums - one can break the cycle of escalating misunderstanding/disagreement/aggressiveness ... by breaking the cycle at any point. I don't believe the Bible ever indicates that we can justify giving offensive because "they started it." I know many find my "cold rationalism" as off-putting so I do try to temper my comments.

A current affairs report that reflects something of my approach to the forums. CNN had a special on bullying in the schools that I caught part of. In it someone, I don't know who, commented that it only took about 10 seconds for a teacher to set expectations. If X calls Y by an offensive name, the teach needs only to say something like "X, the term you used is offensive and may make Y feel bad. That is not permitted in my classroom." End of topic - the teacher moves on.

I think there is a parallel (not equality) between bullying online and what happens now and then in the forums. I know many do not agree but I don't want to be in the situation of explaining why I did nothing.

But as I said, I did not realize that it was an old post to which I should not have replied now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/294840#Comment_294840

If X calls Y by an offensive name, the teach needs only to say something like "X, the term you used is offensive and may make Y feel bad. That is not permitted in my classroom." End of topic - the teacher moves on.

But if teacher never tells "X" to avoid using the term that offends "Y" and only tells "Y" to be understanding to "X" because "X" is different than the rest of the alphabet class, the remaining vowels & consonants start thinking "X" is teacher's pet. If that happens, poor glottal stops coming to class [:P]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/294858#Comment_294858

But if teacher never tells "X" to avoid using the term that offends "Y" and only tells "Y" to be understanding to "X" because "X" is different than the rest of the alphabet class, the remaining vowels & consonants start thinking "X" is teacher's pet. If that happens, poor glottal stops coming to class

Not where my kids went to school nor for many on CNN. Maybe the East Coast (where the show was set) and the West Coast (where I live) are more polite than the rest of the country? Not a theory that would generally occur to me.