7.7 Beta 3 BUG: Search for Topic Burning Bush

Follow-up to thread => Search for <Topic Burning Bush>

Bug is Bible Search suggestion for Burning Bush showing Burning Bush tree (instead of thing).

When Match Equivalent References is unchecked, then Bible Search for <Topic Burning Bush> returns nothing.

Choosing Burning Bush tree generates <Thing Burning Bush> search, which seems a bit odd for a tree transformation into a thing.

Bug in Topic Guide search suggestion is <Topic Burning Bush> instead of <Thing Burning Bush>

When Match Equivalent References is unchecked, then <Topic Burning Bush> search shows Tree in Factbook (for a Thing)

If Topic Guide suggested correct search of <Thing Burning Bush OR "Burning Bush" then Everything search includes Bibles in Library results:

Note: looking at screen shot have no idea about Search settings: e.g. does not show Match Equivalent References is unchecked.

Keep Smiling [:)]

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Philana R. Crouch

Hi KS4J,

I'll look into this, thanks.

Philana R. Crouch

Hi KS4J,

I dug into this a bit and found some info that should shed some light on what you are describing.

Bug is Bible Search suggestion for Burning Bush showing Burning Bush tree (instead of thing).

When Match Equivalent Resources is unchecked, then Bible Search for <Topic Burning Bush> returns nothing.

First, if you do a Bible Search for <Topic Burning Bush> with Match equivalent references turned off you should not get any results. The Help File describes the setting this way:

Match equivalent references: checking this merges results for equivalent terms but of different types, such as Marriage (Topic) and Marriage (Cultural Concept).

Link

So there are no results for <Topic Burning Bush>, but turning this setting on will also search for <Thing Burning Bush>.

Choosing Burning Bush tree generates <Thing Burning Bush> search, which seems a bit odd for a tree transformation into a thing.

This is also expected. Type in the word altar and if you look at the different options such as Altar of the Unknown God is labeled as a Stone Altar. In the example you gave, Tree is the type of thing that that Burning Bush is.

Bug in Topic Guide search suggestion is <Topic Burning Bush> instead of <Thing Burning Bush>

This is a Topic Guide so it will generate a link for a topic search, not a thing search. Under the section for Biblical Things it links back to the entry for the Burning Bush in Factbook which does provide a link

Dave Hooton

Philana,

I'm sorry, but your explanations will not resolve the inconsistencies/faults with Search suggestions that I have raised over the last 2 years and mostly repeated in the thread that is the source for this Bug report.

First, if you do a Bible Search for <Topic Burning Bush> with Match equivalent references turned off you should not get any results.

As you later state that Topic Guide "will generate a link for a topic search" why is it suggested for a Bible/Basic Search?

but turning this setting on will also search for <Thing Burning Bush>.

And get results that the user will think came from <Topic Burning Bush> (as in the source thread).

Are you really advocating that the solution to having no results is to turn on the setting "Match equivalent references"?

Andrew Batishko

but turning this setting on will also search for <Thing Burning Bush>.

And get results that the user will think came from <Topic Burning Bush> (as in the source thread).

Are you really advocating that the solution to having no results is to turn on the setting "Match equivalent references"?

Is the distinction between <Topic Burning Bush> and <Thing Burning Bush> significant to you? If so, why?

In my opinion, Match equivalent references should really be on unless you have specialized needs for differentiating between the datasets. By design, the search engine requires you to be specific about the data you are searching for, but "Match equivalent references" is a way to direct the search engine to take advantage of the additional dataset that was created that ties the separate datasets together and says "these are all talking about the same thing".

Factbook has been moving more and more towards combining these datasets into a single entry, and eliminating the duplicates where they are found, and generally the rest of the application should be moving in that direction as well.

It's likely that the best solution for these types of searches that are generated would be to generate a search that turns on "Match equivalent references" for just that search. Unfortunately, this is not supported, because that option is a global option, and changing it would affect all searches. Making a search link cause a change to your global setting would definitely qualify as unexpected behavior. The alternative solution for now may be to alter the search to be appropriately more inclusive. This will require reviewing the intended purpose of the search to determine whether or not it should be inclusive of other terms. I can't remember where off the top of my head, but there are other places in the application where we do generate more inclusive searches.

I agree with you that the search suggestions are not entirely consistent, and we are aware of the manifold feedback on this issue.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Is the distinction between <Topic Burning Bush> and <Thing Burning Bush> significant to you? If so, why?

Search returning no results: e.g. => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/143686/904735.aspx#904735

I know that Logos does a superb job on very precise searches for experts. This is great and needed. But since I am not an expert, I find that Logos lacks intuitiveness. In this case, let me point out two things:

1) As mentioned earlier, Logos has the great feature of suggesting a search term. This has helped me many times. However, in this case the suggested search term was misleading.

2) To do the fuzzy Bible search, I need to go to "Basic", not "Bible". Then I need to search "Everything", not "Bible". My intuition would say: To search for something in the Bible, I select the Bible search, and then search the Bible.

If Match Equivalent References is not checked, then distinction is significant.

Choosing Burning Bush tree generates <Thing Burning Bush> search, which seems a bit odd for a tree transformation into a thing.

When manually typing search terms, can enter <Thing ...> but not <Tree ...> <Stone Altar ...>

Object explorer that groups by type of thing for generating searches would be helpful (could use type for filtering and grouping)

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

Is the distinction between <Topic Burning Bush> and <Thing Burning Bush> significant to you? If so, why?

I refer you to the confusion in the source thread when one user got results for <Topic Burning Bush> without knowing why.

Is the distinction between <Topic Money> and <PreachingTheme Money> significant? Of course it is when I get 245 results for <Topic Money> only to discover that 231 actually come from <PreachingTheme Money>! And the actual <Topic> results are not what I expected, being linked to images or media elements.

So I turn to Topic Guide to get results for topics.

"Match equivalent references" is a way to direct the search engine to take advantage of the additional dataset that was created that ties the separate datasets together and says "these are all talking about the same thing".

Why does <PreachingTheme Money> not include results from <Thing Money> --> 6821 results?

Please convince me that "these are all talking about the same thing".

Factbook has been moving more and more towards combining these datasets into a single entry,

Please illustrate.

Making a search link cause a change to your global setting would definitely qualify as unexpected behavior. The alternative solution for now may be to alter the search to be appropriately more inclusive.

Agree with the first part, but altering the search sounds like a way to provide results irrespective of the original intention?

Andrew Batishko

Is the distinction between <Topic Burning Bush> and <Thing Burning Bush> significant to you? If so, why?
I refer you to the confusion in the source thread when one user got results for <Topic Burning Bush> without knowing why.

Is the distinction between <Topic Money> and <PreachingTheme Money> significant? Of course it is when I get 245 results for <Topic Money> only to discover that 231 actually come from <PreachingTheme Money>! And the actual <Topic> results are not what I expected, being linked to images or media elements.

So I turn to Topic Guide to get results for topics.
"Match equivalent references" is a way to direct the search engine to take advantage of the additional dataset that was created that ties the separate datasets together and says "these are all talking about the same thing".
Why does <PreachingTheme Money> not include results from <Thing Money> --> 6821 results?

Please convince me that "these are all talking about the same thing".
Factbook has been moving more and more towards combining these datasets into a single entry,
Please illustrate.

Not all references with the same name are considered equivalent. <Topic Burning Bush> and <Thing Burning Bush> are considered the same. <PreachingTheme Money> is considered the same as <Topic Money> but not the same thing as <Thing Money> (you can find two entries for Money in Factbook, although the one for Thing seems to have a sublabel of "Occupations", which seems strange to me). There was a time when <PreachingTheme Money> and <Topic Money> were listed as separate entries in the Factbook, but these have been unified because they are meant to refer to a common thing despite existing in two different datasets.

I can't think of a good reason why you would care about only <PreachingTheme Money> and not <Topic Money> (or vice versa). That's the reason why I'm wondering why you care. Please help me understand where you are coming from.

Making a search link cause a change to your global setting would definitely qualify as unexpected behavior. The alternative solution for now may be to alter the search to be appropriately more inclusive.
Agree with the first part, but altering the search sounds like a way to provide results irrespective of the original intention?

I don't understand what you are saying here. Possibly I didn't state this clearly enough. I'm not talking about changing what results the search returns, but changing the search that is generated when you click the link in the Topic guide or Factbook. That is, we want the resulting search to return results that match the intention of the feature that is providing the link. The generated search may not (yet) be perfectly aligned with intention in all places in the application.