Selling Logos 4 in Bookstores?

When I upgraded to Logos 4, two Logos sales reps told me that Logos will only be selling Logos 4 through their website and phone service.  I also heard that they are moving into the direction of being the sole distributor or products that use the Logos engine - sort of like what iTunes does with its apps.

Michael

That seems to go against the direction of Logos wanting to be more widely adopted among the general US Christian community...

PeterLi said:

That seems to go against the direction of Logos wanting to be more widely adopted among the general US Christian community...

From what Bob Pritchett said; the Christian bookstore route was just not panning out for Logos.

The "attrition" was very high (software that mysteriously disappeared and therefore Logos absorbed the loss) and the sales were very weak...it was never a large part of their market...so they decided to just severe the tie.

Michael Lyman said:

2) Have you all considered marketing it to the home school community?

Yes, we are interested in the home school community. At this point our offerings are still quite limited, however. If you have specific suggestions as to how we might strengthen our offerings in this area, I'd be glad to hear them, or you can send them to suggest@logos.com.

Floyd Johnson said:

got their first Logos product from a Christian Book Store

A seminary student mentioned it to me in the early 1990's -- I think she was beta testing

My local Christian bookstore gave me a $10? (sampler) - they probably paid for it themselves - in the mid 1990's .

as I was a Commodore + Amiga user back then, I could not even install it until getting my first Windows 95 machine (in early 1998?).

My first purchases (yes, from a Bookstore) was a 2.0 "Level 3" plus the stand-alone "Lesson Builder."

There was NO internet to inform me of Logos existence -- except a few hard-to-access bulletin boards or extremely expensive AOL feeds.

Even "dial-up" in my town was "slow."

Unfortunately, even Level "3" only had a couple of up to date commentaries and dictionaries. It was mostly language materials (which I had not yet stated using) or public domain stuff "dressed up" in Logos technology.

I never really started to use Logos until our denominational  Bookstore introduced me to the (purple coloured) 115 unlock Nelson Ultimate CD. Finally, more "up-to-date commentaries, dictionaries, background material etc. It was THAT CD which really helped me to 'take off" into Logos - land!

Mark A. Smith said:

More to the point: who learned about Logos for the first time at a bookstore?

I learned about it for the first time from a guy named Bob whose office was down the hall from mine and who was goofing around making some sort of Bible software thingy in his spare time. He ended up quitting his job and starting this company that makes Logos... [:)]

But I've seen the boxes loads of times in bookstores and if I hadn't had the inside knowledge of the product, that would have served to increase my familiarity with the name so that when I did eventually decide to buy something, Logos would have been what I'd Google to see if there was a way to download it if I couldn't find it in stores anymore. Now that it's no longer in stores, they're relying entirely on publication advertising or word of mouth to get new customers. I guess it's been working since they've gotten a whole flurry of new customers. But I still think there would be more who would only hear about it through their local Christian store. However, the cost of keeping up that distribution channel probably isn't justified for the few more customers that might come on board that way.

I think they'd do better to focus more attention on marketing to seminary students. Loosen up their licensing agreement so seminary libraries can provide it free for all students to use while in the library. Send more trainers to do demos at seminaries for the library staff and faculty. Send Morris Proctor around to do discounted MP seminars for seminarians.

I'm betting that Zondervan is going to "box" several different packages, and distribute them through the Family Christian Stores chain. Also they'll probably have them accessible through standard wholesale channels.

Rosie Perera said:

I think they'd do better to focus more attention on marketing to seminary students. Loosen up their licensing agreement so seminary libraries can provide it free for all students to use while in the library. Send more trainers to do demos at seminaries for the library staff and faculty. Send Morris Proctor around to do discounted MP seminars for seminarians.

In the seminary I attended the main exegesis profs, the ones who teach OT and NT, Hebrew and Greek use the "other program." In fact one of them does training seminars for that program. So my impression is that to get students of this seminary you will need to get Logos in front of them in a real way, otherwise they will only see the value in the way their professors are doing things and then invest their money that way. I know there are many who can run both Logos and other programs beneficially but in seminary they are less likely because of not wanting to buy resources in multiple formats.

I once offered one of those profs to show any interested seminary students Logos and he expressed his doubts that any students would want to because no exegesis profs use it.

Rosie Perera said:

The exegesis profs are the bottleneck.

I agree.

While the argument for pulling out has been well explained (I still disagree) I for one would have never of heard of Logos and would have never become a Logos user without seeing and buying it in a Christian book-store. 

Jeremiah Daniel Morris said:

I for one would have never of heard of Logos and would have never become a Logos user without seeing and buying it in a Christian book-store. 

ditto [:)]

Me too!!!

eBible was the first Bible software that I ever bought. If it had not been in a bookstore, I probably would not be using it today. Over the years, I  have upgraded to Scholar's.

While I agree on better marketting to seminary students, these also needs to better marketting to Christians looking for entry level software packages (whether they are new to Christianity or new to software).  Logos misses out here as there is currently a need for someone with Logos to undo the marketting done by others and show the new entrant why they have bought the wrong software.  It is a lot different from a few months ago when you could search enywhere on line and find Logos products among those offered by online stores - now search for "software" at an online Christian bookstore and you pull up everything EXCEPT logos products.

The current Logos base products are too expensive for entry level starters, as entry level people are really only trying to "test the waters" before going in.  The risk is that now they willl most often enter different waters.

There are inexpensive Logos entry level packages out there, but again they are low profile and difficult to find unless you already know they exist.  The new Nelson eBible products for one, including potentially some of the more specialized entry level collections listed on the logos site:

http://www.logos.com/products/details/5848     http://www.logos.com/products/details/5833

But also the Collegeville package : http://www.logos.com/products/details/5197 at $24.95

Not much in content scope but a way for a new user to learn the ropes and  grow to want more....

Nelson even did a free entry level package a few years ago to get people started with a few key resources - all in Logos 3 of course.

But just imagine the cost to Logos of phone support for all these new users who need help getting up and running..... would have to be a massive loss leader....   as long as the rest of us were willing to pay higher prices for our new pre-pub resources, it MIGHT work.... but so far it has not worked, hence the pull back.

Selling software in Bookstores is not something that has seemed to work well in general.  Of course there will be a few exceptions who have been introduced that way.  Essentially it has been marketting to the wrong audience.  Most bookstore browsers are not into computers that much, and bookstore owners cannot (or do not) help them much when they run into difficulties.  More people seeking Bible software shop for it on-line.  Unfortunately many do so via on-line book sellers and Logos is not there anymore, just the competition.

In the three (physical not virtual) Christian Bookstores in our city, all have a small amount of software, all very old stock (eight to ten years old) except for GLO which all have, and seems they are destined to keep, as it is an expensive black box to all except one store who has a demo (but on an old computer that can hardly handle it).

Does need a rethink - physical Christian Bookstores are not good at marketting software of any kind - virtual Christian Bookstores have software but now it is almost ALL the competition.  The Logos site has a good profile but starts at a level many thing too expensive for an "entry level" they want to try.   That leaves only word of mouth from existing users ?   Well that can work for a small and specialized audience for a while.......

Suggest there be a new, free TRIAL Logos 4 package to download (not until the current support waves for Logos 4 are over though !!! )  with enough titles to make it interesting, where all except a few basic public domain titles expire after say three months (it takes that long to get up the learning curve unless you have enough time to put a major focus on learning just the new software).  Couple that with better marketting to this group of new users of perhaps a few less expensive entry level packages would tend to get more users started on their collections......

David J. Wilson said:

...better marketting to Christians looking for entry level software packages (whether they are new to Christianity or new to software).

...now search for "software" at an online Christian bookstore and you pull up everything EXCEPT logos products.

There are inexpensive Logos entry level packages out there, but again they are low profile and difficult to find unless you already know they exist.  The new Nelson eBible products for one, including potentially some of the more specialized entry level collections listed on the logos site:

http://www.logos.com/products/details/5848     http://www.logos.com/products/details/5833

But also the Collegeville package : http://www.logos.com/products/details/5197 at $24.95

Suggest there be a new, free TRIAL Logos 4 package to download (not until the current support waves for Logos 4 are over though !!! )  with enough titles to make it interesting, where all except a few basic public domain titles expire after say three months (it takes that long to get up the learning curve unless you have enough time to put a major focus on learning just the new software).  Couple that with better marketting to this group of new users of perhaps a few less expensive entry level packages would tend to get more users started on their collections...... 

Excellent observations and suggestions, David!

I think there's a strong case to be made for: (1) Creating a very inexpensive (maybe even free to download) collection of resources, and (2) getting that collection in every Wal-Mart, Target, and Barnes & Noble.

I first encountered Logos as a college student, when I picked up what was essentially a 2.x starter package I found at a mainstream (i.e., non-Christian) store. I imagine it was an eBible package. It didn't have a whole lot of resources - the usual Matthew Henry's, KJV, Strong's, etc. - but it was enough to get me hooked. Before long, I had unlocked one or two commentaries, and a Bible or two. I was using the Strong's numbers to look into the original language - a tool I never even knew existed until Logos made it accessible to me. And by the time I entered seminary and discovered that they used it there, too, I was willing to invest some serious money in my Logos library.

I've since purchased thousands of dollars' worth of Logos software and resources, and have convinced family and colleagues that it's worth their investment, too.

But that's a lot harder than it needs to be when the barrier to entry is $150. Very few people are serious enough about Bible study to spend that kind of money on Bible software, and certainly not sight unseen.

I understand that a minimal package like I purchased doesn't really give the whole "Logos experience," but I don't think it needs to. All it has to do is give Christians a useful tool that broadens their concept of studying the Bible and whets their whistle for more. It's a gateway drug, really. [;)]

What if Wal-Mart's $10 software selection included a Logos starter set? What if Logos fans could direct their family and friends to a free download of L4 and a few basic resources? (Yes, they could get the free eBible demo in L3 and then download the new L4 engine, but that's a lot of work - I'm talking a one-click install here.)

The iPhone app is a great example of this sort of marketing, and I think it's going to be very successful, both in its own right and as a tool for bringing new people to Logos Bible Software. But there's a whole population of potential users out there who are never going to use Logos right now, either because they'll never encounter it, or because $150 is a lot to spend on an application for most people.

I don't know what sort of costs are involved in getting a jewel-cased CD into mainstream stores. I don't know what sort of issues there might be with creating a cheap/free downloadable starter kit. All I know is Logos' current pricing/marketing (with the exception of the iPhone app) makes it very unlikely that they're going to catch Christians outside of the clerical/academic folds. And that would be a real shame!

Robert Pavich said:

The "attrition" was very high (software that mysteriously disappeared and therefore Logos absorbed the loss) and the sales were very weak...it was never a large part of their market...so they decided to just severe the tie.

Of course it's not going to be a major part of the overall sales of Logos 4, but at least it's a running advertisement that's continually there - where people can see it. 

I bought my first Logos product in a Christian bookstore and I wouldn't have even known that it existed if it wasn't out there to be seen.

I understand the thinking of Logos, from a business stand point, especially if they were relying on "in store presence" as a source of sales, but I still think it's a mistake to pull out all together because they should be thinking of it as a continual advertising opportunity, and nothing else.

At least people will know it's available - especially people who would never do a Google search for Bible Software.

Mark A. Smith said:

This where I have to disagree. Logos cannot be appreciated with a small library of public domain works. People will leave unimpressed and will not spend more.

Mark, I agree with all you say. You are right. Logos is very complex Bible software for serious Bible study and IMHO it should stay that way. To gain people who are not willing to pay for the Bible more than $25 would not do any good. 

I must agree with Mark here...Logos is NOT a low-end-public-domain piece of blble software and the problem is...others do that job well...why would anyone change to Logos?

Most people don't get why they'd want Logos...they say "I'm using E-XXX" why do I want that? They have no clue that the resources that they are using are free for a reason; that BDAG just might be better than say ...Strong's?

While I understand the "gateway drug" thing...I think Logos would be better served with demos; as many as they could afford to have; showing WHY someone would need to spend 500.00 on bible software...

And those who understand it...would buy....

Bob Pritchett said:

for a hint of where we're going. Or http://betabible.logos.com for an even bigger hint.)

Color me impressed. I see a sync button! [:O]

Now Bob, you realize this isn't the "private forum", are we supposed to keep quiet about this beta as well? [;)]

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

Paul Golder said:

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

Mark, I agree with all you say. You are right. Logos is very complex Bible software for serious Bible study and IMHO it should stay that way. To gain people who are not willing to pay for the Bible more than $25 would not do any good. 

"All Christians are equal, but some Christians are more equal than others."

Paul, I hope you just joke. The thing I wanted to say was that it is a
matter of preferences. There are people who would  use Gedeon's free Bible for
their reading but have a motorbike for a weekend rides. Nothing against a
motorbikes but it shows preferences IMHO.

Yes it was a joke. I completely agree that in it's present form, L4 is not an entry level tool for the average user. 

I also figured that Bob was way too savvy of a business man to not get a share of the entry level market, and with his succeeding post it looks like we can see that he is building a business model that will attract those who buy sub-compact software into desiring (and perhaps purchasing) a Luxury version one day.

( PS. My friend's Harley was more expensive than my house was... [;)] )

Bob Pritchett said:

This is open to the public, though a very early beta. And this was the first mention of it.... you heard it here first. :-)

So instead of the 49.99 starter edition, you introduce them to it across the web, utilizing free resources. This is similar to the iPhone app model which is primarily the reason I upgraded from Mac 1.22 to L4. Then,when I saw the functionality of L4 and the additional resources being offered I dropped another 600 to upgrade my base package. That free iPhone application cost me over 700.00. [:O]

Not a bad business model.